Posted on 06/11/2010 11:58:25 AM PDT by Frank Broom
The kingdom of God is within you (Luke 17:21). And you have to learn how to operate in the kingdom of God. The Kingdom of God operates on the principle of sowing and reaping (Mark 4:26-28). When a seed is planted in ground and watered something will come forth. God supplied you with seed and water and you are the ground.
God's word is seed (Luke 8:11). And seed is made to produce something. Not only is seed made to produce but it has the power to produce. And God's word has the power to produce what it says. But seed needs ground and that's your spirit. And not only does a seed need ground it also needs water. Without water there will be no increase.
God's water is also the water that causes the increase (Isaiah 55:10,11). And what you plant and water will increase. That's why faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God (Romans 10:17). The word has to be in your mouth first then it will get into your heart (Romans 10:8). The hearing of the word after it's been planted is watering the seed. The word has been planted in you when you hear it and understand it (Matthew 13:23). Paul said "I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase." (1Corinthian 3:6). One planted and the other watered they both did that by them preaching the word. Notice the planting and the watering of the seed came by hearing. And the best way to hear is by you speaking it.
Jesus came that you might have life more abundantly (John 10:10). But whether or not you have that abundant life is up to you. It's your responsibility to make your life as you want it to be (Joshua 1:8). A lot of times we want to leave everything up to God but, God has done his part. He's given you seed, water, and ground for you to make your way prosperous.
You are a creative being. Jesus said you are like a garden (Luke 13:19). Have you ever thought what a garden is? It is something specifically to bring forth the life and substance of a seed. And that's what you are, you were made to release the life and substance of the seeds of God's word. And God's word is God's power (Romans 1:16). You see God supplied you with his power but, you are the one to release it for it to create for you. And his word still creates in the earth realm just as it did in the beginning.
Understand things come out of you by the words of your mouth (Luke 6:45). When the word is in your heart in abundance it will come out of your mouth. And when the word is in you then faith is in you. And when you believe and speak you will have. That is the Kingsdom of God system for you receiving the abundant life.
Actually in some of us. I believe there is a door that has to be opened first.
The better translation is: "The kingdom of God is in your midst". In context, Jesus (as King) was with his disciples (the kingdom) talking to unbelievers.
Having the kingdom” in us” is not for our earthly good, it is not about cars or income or jobs or health it is for Gods glory.
To believe otherwise is to make the Holy Spirit our puppet for our purposes...
We are to sow and water the gospel ... we are to be fishers of men ..
Being saved is not about US or OUR needs it is about God and His plan and glory !!
I really prefer the better translation. Folks in the New Age movement like the KJV version, because "within you" seems to reduce the Reign of the Great King to some kind of internal mystical experience, something that is a component (subset) of our lives, not something that is greater than the universe. See my tagline.
And when you believe and speak you will have. That is the Kingsdom of God system for you receiving the abundant life.
And lemme guess: "we're all little gods", right?
What is your only comfort, in life and in death?
Aimhigh's post is right, but rather than the "better" translation, "in your midst" or "among" you is the more accurate translation.
And you are right to prefer the more accurate translation over a less accurate one. However, I don't understand your taglinel. Christians should run as far as they can get from "science fiction" and embrace whole heartedly biblical exposition, don't you think?
Thank you aimhigh for reading this article. I believe the correct translation is “The kingdom of God is within you” because Jesus said the seed is the word of God in Mark 4. Then He went on to talk about the different types of ground that represents your heart or spirit. You sow the word in your heart.
What should Bible exposition lead us to? More detailed Bible exposition? Or wiser and better living? Is Bible exposition a self-contained solipsistic world of its own? Or an approach to wisdom for the world outside our own heads?
Thank you RnMonof7 for reading this article. It is for God’s glory but it is also for our earthly good God is the one who supplied the seeds. So, if He is the one who supplies the seeds how can it not be for our good. The purpose of seed is to produce something. I don’t believe that makes the Holy Spirit our puppet. If it’s a job you need and God supplies seed concerning a job how can it not be for our earthly good. Are we going to need a job in heaven, or a car, or income? So it has to be for while we are here on earth. Thanks
Source please, or label it a vanity or list your blog.
NOT ok on the Religion Forum, as far as I am concerned. This is YOPIOS......Your
Own
Personal
Interpretation
of
Scripture
The disagreement seems to be between “Within” and “among”.
Anyone care to post the original and arguments for each?
Its amazing that all of Frank’s posts quote the Gospels as evidence for grace, kingdom of God, body of Christ, etc.
The Gospels, the so called “red letters” spoken by Jesus Christ, are not the complete words of God and Christ. If you read carefully, the WHOLE Bible is the precise Words of Christ communicated to us by the inspiration from the Holy Spirit unto men today.
Therefore, let’s see if Frank can find scripture evidence in the writings of Paul regarding grace, kingdom of God, Body of Christ, etc. The writers of the Gospels audience was Israel, e.g., Jews, not gentile Christians (of which we [almost] all are).
No the Kingdom of God is in the Spirit of God (The Holy Spirit) which exists outside of the wicked hearts of natural humanity; it is only through Christ’s cleansing that the Holy Spirit may dwell with (man or woman). He is not naturally “in you”. To believe otherwise is a delusion of hell, and possibly the person who believes this as well!
Science fiction,like all fiction is not reality. Your presupposition is that science fiction contains within the genre itself the ability to enable young people to live nobly and well. This is not the case. Fiction can only do so if the writer grounds his story upon the right and true principles of Scripture.
One the other hand, Bible exposition gives us the true knowledge of reality. Study of the Bible absolutely enables us to live wiser and better because as our lives are more conformed to its principles, we more and more live lives that reflect true reality.
Bible study is not solipsistic for the knowledge it conveys is much more than simple knowledge of the self, but it conveys knowledge of all things.
If you spent more time in Bible study than science fiction, you would know that no Mormon EVERE "forthrightly honors Jesus Christ", and you would know better than to write such things.
Before jumping to the verse in Mark, you have to look at the context of the statement. Jesus directed his comment at unbelievers. It's out of context to imply that every unbeliever who has heard any scripture has the kingdom within them.
Did the apostles and early disciples have a seed centered prosperity?
Exactly
bibletruth here are the scriptures you asked for:Rom.1:5;
3:24;4:16;5:2;5:15;5:17;5:20;5:21;6:14;6:15;11:6 1Corinth. 1:4;3:10;15:10 Gal. 1:3;1:6;2:9; Eph.1:2;1:6;1:7;2:7;2:8 Those are the scriptures for Grace. Eph.1:23;Col.1:18 These are the scriptures for the Body of Christ. Acts 19:8;
20:25;28;31 These are the scriptures for the Kingdom of God. So these things are not just mentioned in the four gospels as you said. Thank You
JSDude1 The kingdom of God is in you as stated by Jesus. Matthew 13:19 When anyone heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, them cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in their heart. So it has to be in you because that is where the seed is sown in your heart. In your heart not outside of your heart.
D-fendr My point is the kingdom of God is within you because that’s what Jesus said and other scriptures agree. Luke 8:12 you are saved by hearing the word. You are saved by grace through faith Eph 2:8. But faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God Rom:10:17. You sow the word in people heart and God will give the increase as stated in 1Corinthian 3:6 “I planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. That’s the kingdom of God so it has to be within you because that is where the seed is sown. Thanks
P-Marlowe I am a believer in the “Prosperity Gosple”. Why do people fight against prossperity when God says “Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thou soul prosper. Psalms 35:27 says God has pleasure the the prosperity of his servant. So if it pleases God that we prosper what man has the right to speak against it. And if you are trying to please the Father and it pleases him to prosper you how can anyone say that it’s not right. Anyone with that point of should take it up with the Father it’s his word. Thanks
The Kingdom of God is one of, if not the, most common themes of Jesus.
He describes it and talks about it in many different ways. My question was on the phrase under discussion. What the text says in the original language and whether "among" or "within" was more accurate.
I agree that within is more accurate and fits with other scripture better - as I read it.
I also spent some time over ten years ago on this passage, and determined that "within" was the more accurate reading. However, I was hoping someone would reply with translational arguments. I'm too lazy to try to redo my work. :)
Thanks for your reply.
The scriptures also say, "blessed or those who suffer and are persecuted for my name's sake'. There are dozens of references to suffering for every verse dealing with physical prosperity.
Where is God not?
I am a believer in correct grammar and spelling.
I am curious as to why you think it is important to post a new vanity thread every day? I believe you don't spend a lot of time putting your articles together because your grammar and spelling are atrocious. Additionally I find your articles basically pointless. They really have no direction or point. They are just a lot of scriptural platitudes strung together without any meaningful insight.
You have not been here very long, but I can tell you that you have stumbled upon probably the most theologically intense religion forum in America. There are a lot of pastors and theologians and authors here who participate in the threads basically commenting on articles written by persons other than themselves, and when they do post a "vanity" thread, they acknowledge it in the title of the article itself.
You are more than welcome to keep posting these vanity threads and not participating in the discussions of other religious threads by people other than yourself. But quite frankly I have not been impressed with anything you have posted, either in the way of articles or responses to other freepers.
This is a community of believers with very varied theological viewpoints. Most of us look at the "Prosperity Gosple" (sic) as "another gospel". Teachers like Kenneth Copeland have been preaching what I consider "doctrines of demons" for the last 50 years and turning many people away from the true faith.
So now that we all know that you are a believer in the "Prosperity Gosple" (sic) I can finally see the direction of your articles. I had suspected as much before, but I wasn't really sure because your articles really just didn't make a whole lot of sense. Now I know why.
So He could be health wealthy and wise?Have a ring on every finger? So others might see how well he was doing?
2 Beloved, I wish above all things that you may prosper and be in health, even as your soul prospers. 3 For I rejoiced greatly, when the brothers came and testified of the truth that is in you, even as you walk in the truth. 4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.
5 Beloved, you do faithfully whatever you do to the brothers, and to strangers; 6 Which have borne witness of your charity before the church: whom if you bring forward on their journey after a godly sort, you shall do well: 7 Because that for his name's sake they went forth, taking nothing of the Gentiles. 8 We therefore ought to receive such, that we might be fellow helpers to the truth.
I do not believe the prosperity gospel is a gospel at all .. it is self seeking and prideful.. it is all about ME and not Christ
Exactly
I believe the correct translation is “The kingdom of God is within you”
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Frank, how much Greek have you had?
Aimhigh’s translation is correct, completely.
Christians that the only major novelist who forthrightly honors Jesus Christ in this genre is a Mormon, Orson Scott Card.
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Orson Scott Card is Mormon, not Christian. I would not trust any theology found in his books.
Secondly, the LDS church does a lot with Sci fi - Battlestar Galactica for example is based entirely upon LDS theology.
The purpose of the Bible is to teach us the truth of God. Mormons ignore that and claim ‘additional revelation’, that the bible is full of errors and cannot be trusted, and misuse it completely to support their perverse doctrines.
See MY tagline.
Admit it, you are a firm believer in the “Prosperity Gospel” aren’t you?
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Proseperity gospel (aka “blab it and grab it” is heresy and a technique used by charlatans who use the name of Christ for their own financial gain. The Apostles were not promised earthly wealth and neither are we.
So Frank, are you going to start asking for ‘seed donations’ soon or just pimp your writings? Go pimp your false teachings elsewhere.
http://www.gotquestions.org/prosperity-gospel.html
In the prosperity gospel, also known as the “Word of Faith,” the believer is told to use God, whereas the truth of biblical Christianity is just the opposite—God uses the believer. Word of Faith or prosperity theology sees the Holy Spirit as a power to be put to use for whatever the believer wills. The Bible teaches that the Holy Spirit is a Person who enables the believer to do God’s will. The prosperity gospel movement closely resembles some of the destructive greed sects that infiltrated the early church. Paul and the other apostles were not accommodating to or conciliatory with the false teachers who propagated such heresy. They identified them as dangerous false teachers and urged Christians to avoid them.
Paul warned Timothy about such men in 1 Timothy 6:5, 9-11. These men of “corrupt mind” supposed godliness was a means of gain and their desire for riches was a trap that brought them “into ruin and destruction” (v. 9). The pursuit of wealth is a dangerous path for Christians and one which God warns about: “For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs” (v. 10). If riches were a reasonable goal for the godly, Jesus would have pursued it. But He did not, preferring instead to have no place to lay His head (Matthew 8:20) and teaching His disciples to do the same. It should also be remembered that the only disciple concerned with wealth was Judas.
Paul said covetousness is idolatry (Ephesians 5:5) and instructed the Ephesians to avoid anyone who brought a message of immorality or covetousness (Ephesians 5:6-7). Prosperity teaching prohibits God from working on His own, meaning that God is not Lord of all because He cannot work until we release Him to do so. Faith, according to the Word of Faith doctrine, is not submissive trust in God; faith is a formula by which we manipulate the spiritual laws that prosperity teachers believe govern the universe. As the name “Word of Faith” implies, this movement teaches that faith is a matter of what we say more than whom we trust or what truths we embrace and affirm in our hearts.
A favorite term in the Word of Faith movement is “positive confession.” This refers to the teaching that words themselves have creative power. What you say, Word of Faith teachers claim, determines everything that happens to you. Your confessions, especially the favors you demand of God, must all be stated positively and without wavering. Then God is required to answer (as though man could require anything of God!). Thus, God’s ability to bless us supposedly hangs on our faith. James 4:13-16 clearly contradicts this teaching: “Now listen, you who say, ‘Today or tomorrow we will go to this or that city, spend a year there, carry on business and make money.’ Why, you do not even know what will happen tomorrow. What is your life? You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes.” Far from speaking things into existence in the future, we do not even know what tomorrow will bring or even whether we will be alive.
Instead of stressing the importance of wealth, the Bible warns against pursuing it. Believers, especially leaders in the church (1 Timothy 3:3), are to be free from the love of money (Hebrews 13:5). The love of money leads to all kinds of evil (1 Timothy 6:10). Jesus warned, “Watch out! Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; a man’s life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions” (Luke 12:15). In sharp contrast to the Word of Faith emphasis on gaining money and possessions in this life, Jesus said, “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal” (Matthew 6:19). The irreconcilable contradictions between prosperity teaching and the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ is best summed up in the words of Jesus in Matthew 6:24, “You cannot serve both God and money.”
Entos - in Greek can be either within or among. However the text has it as an adverb and as an adverb it is a better translation to say ‘among you’.
Hope this helps.
I am a believer in correct grammar and spelling.
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LOL.
I believe you don’t spend a lot of time putting your articles together because your grammar and spelling are atrocious. Additionally I find your articles basically pointless. They really have no direction or point. They are just a lot of scriptural platitudes strung together without any meaningful insight.
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Applause.
I do not believe the prosperity gospel is a gospel at all .. it is self seeking and prideful.. it is all about ME and not Christ
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Exactly. One of the things that I struggled with in Mormonism was the very common view that ‘living the (LDS) gospel would guarantee material wealth. So much so that it became a contest, the wealthiest were considered the most ‘spiritual’.
The blab it and grab it doctrine divides believers in much the same way.
“The Lord is my banker, my credit is good.
He maketh me to lie down in the consciousness of omnipresent abundance;
He giveth me the key to His strongbox.
He restoreth my faith in His riches;
He guideth me in the paths of prosperity for His name's sake.
Yea though I walk in the very shadow of debt,
I shall fear no evil for thou art with me.
Thy silver and Thy gold, they secure me.
Thou preparest a way for me in the presence of the collector;
Thou fillest my wallet with plenty; my measure runneth over.
Surely goodness and plenty will follow me all the days of my life;
And I shall do business in the name of the Lord forever.”
Interesting enough, the “Prosperity Gospel” is a major tenet of the Unity heresy, Fillmore being one of its proponents.
Of course, the “Prosperity Gospel” misses Paul's comment on contentment (Phil. 4:11-13, 19) “Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content. I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need. I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.... But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.”
I disagree. I have not read any work of Card's in which he honors Christ or His Name. Further, while devotion to a man-made deity shows Card's recognition that Mormonism is false, it is also an expression of lack of faith in anything beyond Mormonism. I do agree that Card's preeminence in religiously-themed sci-fi is a rebuke to Christians, but not for its faithfulness.
Write some stories of your own!
Yes, very much, thank you. Entos rang the bell with me. I did a bit more searching and found... there's great argument over which it means and scholars to support both sides - one of the arguments for "within" is that's the only way it's used in its other NT occurrence. There's even one source who said it means both in this instance.
Oh, well. :(
Thanks very much for your reply.
When I was taking Koine Greek, I remember my professor (at Moody) stating that the use of ‘among’ in an adverbial phrase was supported by extra biblical usages of the word (IOW, external documentation of the period) and that is why, although there is some dispute, it is more proper to use ‘among you’ in translation.
The lines are fallen unto me in pleasant places; yea, I have a goodly heritage. I will bless the LORD, who hath given me counsel: my reins also instruct me in the night seasons. I have set the LORD always before me: because he is at my right hand, I shall not be moved. Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoiceth: my flesh also shall rest in hope. For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. Thou wilt shew me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore." -- Psalm 16:5-11 "The LORD is the portion of mine inheritance and of my cup: thou maintainest my lot.
P-Marlowe I am a believer in the “Prosperity Gosple”. Why do people fight against prossperity when God says “Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thou soul prosper. Psalms 35:27 says God has pleasure the the prosperity of his servant. So if it pleases God that we prosper what man has the right to speak against it. And if you are trying to please the Father and it pleases him to prosper you how can anyone say that it’s not right. Anyone with that point of should take it up with the Father it’s his word. Thanks
Why did Jesus die? What did he accomplish by rising?
< their_worst_life_then>
Others suffered mocking and flogging, and even chains and imprisonment. They were stoned, they were sawn in two, they were killed with the sword. They went about in skins of sheep and goats, destitute, afflicted, mistreated— of whom the world was not worthy—wandering about in deserts and mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
< /their_worst_life_then>
“it is just as true that a correct understanding of Scripture and our place in God’s universe actually and truly results in a sounder mind, a more contented attitude, a healthier perspective on life, and a generally happier life”
But what about my stash? Does that mean I don’t get my stash? ‘bama got his, what about me?
I hadn't considered that though it seems obvious. Thanks for your post.
P-Marlowe I was not aware that you made the rules. And if you do not like my articles why do you keep reading them. And just because you don’t understand them don’t mean they don’t make any sense maybe it’s just you. If you think they don’t make any sense then stop reading them. But seeing how you are so interested in criticizing and trying to belittle someone that shows your character and arrogance to think you are worthy of having someone try to impress you. It’s obvious that you like to pass judgment on others of things you don’t understand which is sad. So if you don’t like my articles you are more than free to not read them. If you have other beliefs that’s fine I’ve never criticized someone else’s beliefs as you have which further shows your character. You are free to believe what you want just as I am free to believe what I want.
What’s a stash?
Drugs? Jewels? Beer nuts?
it is just as true that a correct understanding of Scripture and our place in God’s universe actually and truly results in a sounder mind, a more contented attitude, a healthier perspective on life, and a generally happier life.
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I agree completely. The Christian life doesn’t make us miserable, it brings us joy. But that also does not mean, in the least, that it promises material wealth, which is what the ‘name it and claim it’ group teaches.
You are welcome. Biblical translation is a sticky area, but also a fun one.
“What’s a stash?”
I don’t know, but those people they keep interviewing from Florida about who’s going to pay their rent and car payments for them and give them grocery and walking around money keep saying ‘bama going to give them money out of his stash, so I want a stash too. Seems only fair; maybe if you have enough faith you can get a stash!
Here’s my thought for tonight: God loves drunk people too!
A man and his wife were awakened at 3:00 am by a loud pounding on the door. The man gets up and goes to the door where a drunken stranger,standing in the pouring rain, is asking for a push.
“Not a chance,” says the husband, “it is 3:00 in the morning!” He slams the door and returns to bed.
“Who was that?” asked his wife.
“Just some drunk guy asking for a push,” he answers.
“Did you help him?” she asks.
“No, I did not, it is 3:00 in the morning and it is pouring rain out there!”
“Well, you have a short memory,” says his wife. “Can’t you remember about three months ago when we broke down, and those two guys helped us? I think you should help him, and you should be ashamed of yourself! God loves drunk people too!”
The man does as he is told, gets dressed, and goes out into the pounding rain. He calls out into the dark, “Hello, are you still there?”
“Yes,” comes back the answer.
“Do you still need a push?” calls out the husband.
“Yes, please!” comes the reply from the dark.
“Where are you?” asks the husband.
“Over here on the swing set,” replied the drunk.
"The curse of the LORD is in the house of the wicked: but he blesseth the habitation of the just." -- Proverbs 3:33
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