Posted on 06/18/2010 2:43:23 AM PDT by markomalley
ZC,
Unless I am reading in-correctly the Bible says all gentiles are filthy pigs
Psalms 14 and 53..
They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good. The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God. They are all gone aside, they are altogether become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one. (Ps.14:1-3)
When G-d charged Adam, ‘And the L-rd G-d commanded Adam, saying: Of every tree in the garden you may surely eat. But from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you may not eat of it, for on the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.’ (Genesis 2:16,17)
This single commandment contained the source of the Seven Noahide Commandments. And more, Adam was charged by G-d with the responsibility to teach the laws to future generations...
According to Masonic doctrine, a Noahide is an average Gentile, while a “true Noachida” would be a “righteous Gentile”
ZC,
Do you consider yourself a Mason as well?
What is so hard about finding the Love of G-d in His Laws for us?
Also are you saying GOD is about Law for human beings first before anything else?
I told you, Tara: the Torah, with all its rules and regulations, was written before the universe was created. That means before there was anybody to commit a sin in the first place. You're not getting this, are you?
How about if I remind you that G-d gave Adam the commandment not to eat of the fruit of the tree before he ever sinned (indeed, without a law to transgress Adam could have never sinned at all). The Hebrew text of Genesis says that G-d put Adam in the garden "to work it" (with positive commandments) and "to guard it" (with negative commandments).
You said you still are learning after 20 years....Is GOD’s intention to make it that difficult for human beings to have a relationship with him?
Now I don't know what in the sam hill you're talking about. I'd have a relationship with G-d if I were (G-d forbid) comatose. He's my Creator! That's my relationship with G-d! It's also yours, and everyone and everything else's relationship! And why are you so prejudiced against learning? I suppose you knew everything you'd ever need to know the instant you were "born again" and have never studied the Bible a single time since then? I just don't get you.
Again I don’t mean to frustrate you, just understand what you are saying....
Tara . . . to you G-d is the protagonist of a big dualistic Tolienesque drama, duking it out with an "evil gxd" for the possession of humanity. For me there is no "evil gxd" and G-d's possession of humanity is absolute and unquestioned. To you G-d is so busy being the "good guy" in the drama that He doesn't have time to be G-d. To me G-d is simply G-d. And it is this that is so liberating.
Psalms 14 and 53..
You know, I have read both psalms many, many times (I currently recite Psalm 53 every day) and don't recall pigs ever being mentioned. Where are you getting these bizarre ideas?
According to Masonic doctrine, a Noahide is an average Gentile, while a “true Noachida” would be a “righteous Gentile”
ZC,
Do you consider yourself a Mason as well?
No, I am not a Mason, nor am I or have I ever been a member of any secret order of any kind.
Is this about the "Judaeo-Masonic conspiracy?" Is that what this is about?
That is what I have read....I guess I just don’t understand ZC’s point of why he thinks people would gravitate to Noahide Laws..It sounds *Robotic* and after 20 years he still does not know about what he believes about *GOD*
In addition who are the *Jews* since the diaspora they have been scattered, and Jews by today’s standard is having a Jewish Mother, in addition Gentiles can convert to Judaism does that make them any less in GOD’s eyes..?
Maybe there is a group I think Cohanim maybe? that can trace their heritage to Ancient Israel? but the majority?
I know the 12 Tribes of Israel from all over the world have a part in the End Times.....
I have a wonerful relationship with GOD that involves Peace... loving GOD with all my heart soul and mind, and I do my best to love my neighbor as myself...It is truly not complicated
What ZC has to do to have a relationship with GOD makes my head spin...:)
But I respect what he believes....
Why doesn’t he just keep the Jews and destroy all the Gentiles?
According to the Bible all humans are God's creatures, made in his image, but not necessarily his chosen people. He eternally wants Gentiles to live by and obey the Noahide laws. That is part of the Covenant he made with Noah after the Flood for "for all future generations." (Gen 9:12)
Then, later own, for other reasons, God selected Jews to be his priestly nation.
Beautifully put, kosta!
So why all the questions about why wanted to "pick up the crumbs" if you already knew the answer???
Well GOD to me is personal, meaning I have a real personal talk to him daily relationship in Jesus name..Maybe it is a different GOD from you....
Have you read the *Origin of Chaos* it was found in the caves of Egypt around the time the Dead Sea Scrolls were found...Yes I have heard the Torah was created before mankind....
Then, later own, for other reasons, God selected Jews to be his priestly nation.
*But who are they*?
Even Nostradamus was a Jew....
Einstein was a Jew
Saul/Paul was a Jew
Mary of Magdala was a Jew
All these Born Jews converted to the Christian Faith
Does this mean GOD no longer considers them part of his *Presitly Nations*
during the 19th century, but in the 1890s the number was running closer to 3,000 per year, — 1,000 in Austria Hungary (Galizian Poland), 1,000 in Russia (Poland, Belarus, Ukraine, and Lithuania), 500 in Germany (Posen), and the remainder in the English world.
The Apostle Paul - As a Pharisee (a Judaic leader), Saul of Tarsus was an enemy of the Church and a persecutor of its believers. A vision while travelling left him temporarally blind and led him to be one of the most prominent Christians (Act 9:5) and author of many New Testament epistles.
Abd-al-Masih - a convert martyred for his faith
Michael Solomon Alexander - first Anglican Bishop of Jerusalem
Petrus Alphonsi - physician in ordinary to King Alfonso VI of Castile
Juan Alfonso de Baena - medieval Castilian troubadour
Lovisa Augusti- opera singer and actress.
Eduard Bendemann - German painter
Sir Julius Benedict - English composer
Leo de Benedicto Christiano - medieval financier
Theodor Benfey - German philologist
David Berkowitz - American serial killer
Michael Bernays - German professor of literature
Gottfried Bernhardy - German philologist and literary historian
Ludwig Börne - German political writer and satirist
John Braham - English tenor opera star
Moritz Wilhelm August Breidenbach - German jurist
Julius Friedrich Cohnheim - German pathologist
Isaac da Costa - Dutch language poet
MY POINT:
From my understanding as a *Christian* the 144K (JEWS) are going to be the ones to Rule and Teach in the Millenial Kingdom
I am not sure what *Jews* you are speaking of ZC?
I wanted to hear it from you. :)
Well I just know Jesus said:
*I am the way, the truth and the life* no one comes to the Father but by by me...
John 14:6
Now if the JEWS are going to teach me Torah when I’m there
I will be a obedient student...:)
I would prefer to call it Jewish theology, discipline or even ideology. It is so intimately related to and dependent on Judaism that it cannot be a stand-alone rleigion.
I am a "fundie" because I regard religious truth as factual truth
To me that's a "literalist." That is a complete enigma to me.
I simply do not understand why people have such a hard time accepting that Noachism is G-d's authorized religion for all non-Jewish humanity
It is not a religion. It is religious discipline prescribed by Judaism. Judaism (or at least one Jewish sect) promotes it.
For some reason the rest of you seem to think it's a sort of "second class" something or other
Relative to Judaism it is.
Do you think the laity is picking up the crumbs from the only people G-d really cares about?
The "crumbs" are basically "hitching the ride."
The Jewish People are simply the clergy of the human race According to Jewish scriptures, that is, according to Judaism. In order for one to accept that one must believe in Jewish scriptures and recognize the Jewish God as the one true God, or basically accept Judaism as the one true faith/religion.
But without a laity a priesthood means nothing, and Israel's priesthood would mean nothing without the rest of the human race over which to sere as priests.
Why does human race need a "priestly nation" to serve over the rest of us? How did the human race get by before God established this "priestly nation?" And what kind of a "priestly nation" is it that worships idols throughout its history and than gives rise to such offshoots as Christianity (1st derivative) and Islam (second derivative) that take over the world?
How do male Jews perform their "priestly" duties for me or the rest of the world?
Are Jewish women also "priests?" Or is their sole purpose to give birth to more priests? If they are also part of "priestly nation" how do women perform their "priestly" duties? Were Moses' wives Jewish? If not how cold their children be Jewish?
If God chose those who will be his "priestly nation" why does Judaism allow converts?
Does it bother you that for the first time in my life I am satisfied and all my questions (the ones for which answers exist in this life) have been answered?
Not at all, ZC! But I can't tell you something that's contrary to my beliefs just to make you feel good.
I'm sorry, but chr*stianity has never been anything other than a big disappointment in all its forms
Oh I disagree, dear friend. Christianity is a wonderful story. trouble is, the story doesn't match the real world. But that's true of all religions.
Fundamentalist Protestantism demands a mystical "new birth" that one can never be sure he has experienced (if you've had it you'll know, but you can not have it and think you do!)
I am glad you brought this up. As an ex-Protestant, did you ever "know" the mystical "new birth?" All Protestants tell me they are 100% certain they had it. How does one 'know' anything religious unless one decides to accept everything biblical as a matter of fact and not just faith?
Do you think that every Catholic/Orthodox chr*stian is supposed to be a priest/bishop/monk/nun?
That depends on the "call" they receive. The Church has to determine of the "call" is genuine or not. I have no idea how they do that, nor do I care. It is bogus anyway.
What's the difference between subservience to the traditional chr*stian ethnic groups and subservience to Israel? I'm sorry; I choose the latter. If that offends you, there really isn't anything I can do about it other than not care
There is no subservience to the clergy. If I were a believer I would not envy them at all. John Chrysostom wrote centuries ago that the road to hell is paved with the skulls of bishops. For a Christian it is not the worldly title that carries any weight in the world to come, but the likeness of Christ in you.
Noachides will forever be subservient to the Jews. Now and in the world to come. Christians will know neither rank nor gender. But, rest assured, it offend me at all that it doesn't offend you. :)
What difference does it make where they live? Jews are the people who are born of a Jewish mother, or who convert to Judaism. It's a birthright as well as religious preference and observance.
By converting to Judaism you are believed to somehow "ontologically" change from ordinary human to a "priestly" human being, pretty much the way a priest is "ordained" forever (even if he is later defrocked).
I know the 12 Tribes of Israel from all over the world have a part in the End Times
How do you know that?
I thought the 144K were going to be saved only because they were virigns.
You mean to say you know that someone, who the Church says is John (the Apostle), anonymously wrote that's what Jesus said?
144K are the Jews that have already been chosen to be the Teachers of GOD....
Beloved, the above traits are clearly talking about 144,000 who are already in Heaven before the throne of God during the days of vengeance. They apparently have no need of a judgment, They are standing with and following Jesus everywhere, singing a song that is impossible for humans to learn, they were ‘taken out’ from among ‘men’, they have no deception in their mouth, they are sinless, they are male virgins and children of Israel.
No human alive will be part of the *Preistly Throne* because they have already been Chosen by GOD....
This eschatology comes from Revelation and many scriptures in the Gospel.....
Well my faith and belief is in what is written in the Gospels...
I believe that The Jews were Chosen by GOD to be a Light to all Nations and that was Jesus Christ.
The Problem I have with ZC, is that Noahide Laws..7 Universal Laws were suppose to be taught by Adam before Noah and we saw where that led...
When Noah became the Father of Mankind..2 groups formed
1. The Children of Noah
2. The Children of Israel
Now some of those Noahide laws have been written in the Jewish Talmud that sound hellenistic from what I have read.
It also gives to much authority to Men (Jewish Elders) and not to GOD....
ZC's faith is his faith and not anyone's problem.
When Noah became the Father of Mankind..2 groups formed 1. The Children of Noah 2. The Children of Israel
There were no Children of Israel after the Flood. Just people. And God makes an eternal covenant with them. However, that's not where the Noahide laws come from, except for the one about not eating meat with life [blood] in it (the 7th law).
The other six are derived exegetically (through interpretation) of Genesis 2:16.
At any rate, Judaim is not a uniform, magisterial religion, and is, like Islam, subject to various 'hadiths' and 'suras' of their own, actually opinions of various rabbis which vary as widely as it gets.
Some of these rabbis actually say Noahide laws are forbidden for the Gentiles because Gentiles cannot be taught the Torah (Jewish Encyclopedia)...
I really don't care one way or another what they say; I was only making a point that no matter how bizarre it may seem to you, what ZC believes is his faith and is not subject to your or my judgment, never mind a "problem."
Now some of those Noahide laws have been written in the Jewish Talmud that sound hellenistic from what I have read. It also gives to much authority to Men (Jewish Elders) and not to GOD...
Man invented writing, and consequently everything written, including the 'holy' books, has been written by men and for men as far as I am concerned.
I don’t have a problem per-se with ZC..I was just making an observation..No judgement of any kind.....
Everyone has to find their own journey which includes GOD or not....
I was just saying or asking..Why in *perfection* do we need religion, if we all will be *Knowing* and have the wisdom of GOD...
I agree. I believe the New Testament hints that when it says "now we see dimly as through the glass..." but in the future the veil will be lifted and we shall see clearly. Certainly, in the presence of God no one religion would be needed.
But Judaism does not teach heavenly bliss. Olam HaBa, the World to Come, is not in the heaven, or in the presence of God, but here on earth. And the way they see it, the Jews will still be the priestly nation, and the Gentiles their Noahide followers.
The Jews believe that the nature of God's Covenant with Israel does not change, so they are forever to be a priestly nation. They also believe that by that Covenant they are ontologically made different from the rest of humanity, namely that they are ordained by birth.
Yes..I have read about the Olam HaBa, personally IMO it sounds like People will still have *Dominion* over other’s which does not work in our human condition...
Maybe Jews and Gentiles will be on the earth in this kind of state Olam HaBa but I hope as a Christian to be in heaven.
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