Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Presbyterian Church USA- Misrepresenting Christian Values: Update
Amerisrael ^

Posted on 06/19/2010 6:46:38 PM PDT by Amerisrael

From WKYT News in Louisville, Kentucky:

"The Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) eliminated 49 more jobs at its Louisville headquarters."


"The Courier-Journal reported that the church, struggling financially, announced the cuts on Friday that included a combination of layoffs, voluntary severance and attrition."


"The cuts come after the council's governing board earlier thisweek approved an $82 million budget for 2011 and $80 million for2012 - down from this year's budget of $93.8 million."


"The newspaper reported that the denomination has been copingwith losses in membership, congregations, contributions andinvestment returns."

No wonder,----- read the most the most recent previous post.

For those who would like to protest the biased unfactual anti-Israel PCUSA "study report", and their unbiblical views towards Israel, here is the contact info for their headquaters:

 Office of the General Assembly
100 Witherspoon Street
Louisville, Kentucky 40202-1396
(888) 728-7228
(502) 569-5000
Fax: (502) 569-8005

(Excerpt) Read more at amerisrael.typepad.com ...


TOPICS: Apologetics; Current Events; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: antisemites; antisemitic; antisemitism; bias; heresy; israel; paganchurchusa; pcusa; religiousleft; theologicalliberal

1 posted on 06/19/2010 6:46:38 PM PDT by Amerisrael
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Amerisrael

I went to a Easter service from a denomination that has a spiraling downward situation. My cousin...who is the minister...kinda points out that they are lucky to have 130 members show up each Sunday. If you probably went back to the 1970s...they had around 300 members. My impression is that folks are looking for a reason to quit a church...and it doesn’t take an awful lot to convince them to drop out.


2 posted on 06/19/2010 6:50:10 PM PDT by pepsionice
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Amerisrael

Pc usa is generally more liberal from what I have read which doesn’t help. I know our PCA church with a real conservative message coupled with contemporary praise music has a 15-20% annual growth rate.


3 posted on 06/19/2010 6:55:24 PM PDT by plain talk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: plain talk

Not sure but I’d imagine that the Orthodox Presbyterian Church is growing.


4 posted on 06/19/2010 7:00:43 PM PDT by NewHampshireDuo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: plain talk

PCA [Presbyterian Churches of America] is totally different from the PCUSA [Presbyterian Churces USA].

PCA is more Biblically sound. The late Dr.D.James Kennedy, who was pastor of Coral Ridge Presbyterian [PCA] in Florida, was a favorite to listen to.

The grandson of Rev. Billy Graham is the Senior pastor there now. That church is growing.


5 posted on 06/19/2010 7:06:24 PM PDT by Amerisrael
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: NewHampshireDuo; pepsionice; Amerisrael; plain talk

PCA member here...our services are very traditional, which I very much appreciate...and I say this as one of the youngest members of my congregation. In fact, one of the reasons why I had such a difficult time finding a “home church” was my distaste for contemporary music and worship. (I come from a Catholic background.)


6 posted on 06/19/2010 7:19:03 PM PDT by CondoleezzaProtege
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: pepsionice
My cousin...who is the minister...kinda points out that they are lucky to have 130 members show up each Sunday. If you probably went back to the 1970s...they had around 300 members.

The PCUSA church that most of my immediate family go to and my dad has been a member of since 1945 or so, is growing. They're looking at rebuilding and expanding.

The denomination as a whole's in a tailspin, and has been since the 1960s. Absent a work of God it will end up withered to a tiny leftist pagan core.

Parker Williamson's first talk at the Christianity and Liberalism conference will give you a good idea what's happening.

7 posted on 06/19/2010 7:21:32 PM PDT by Lee N. Field ("You fool! Don't you know every Taurus purchased brings us closer to TEOTWAWKI?")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: CondoleezzaProtege

I come from a Catholic background as well and find the traditional music stuffy and boring just like the Catholic services. Been there done that. I love the contemporary music.


8 posted on 06/19/2010 7:32:28 PM PDT by plain talk
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: CondoleezzaProtege

Is PCA same as Orthdox?


9 posted on 06/19/2010 7:35:12 PM PDT by NewHampshireDuo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: NewHampshireDuo

Well both the OPC and PCA share the same commitment to Scripture and conservative doctrinal tenets, including creeds such as the Westminster Confession...I know that PCA is larger though in numbers and is more “mainstream” —meaning we encourage crossing denominational “barriers” and actively engage with the greater Evangelical world. I think we also put more emphasis on evangelism and missionary work than OPC does.


10 posted on 06/19/2010 7:42:38 PM PDT by CondoleezzaProtege
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: CondoleezzaProtege
PCA member here...our services are very traditional, which I very much appreciate...and I say this as one of the youngest members of my congregation. In fact, one of the reasons why I had such a difficult time finding a “home church” was my distaste for contemporary music and worship. (I come from a Catholic background.)

Vibes I'm picking up from the "grumpy Calvinist*" corner of the blog world make me think the PCA might be having a bit of an identity crisis. Part wants to be confessional reformed, part wants to imitate contemporary American evangelicalism.

(*Check out recent posts on Rev. Ron Gleason's blog.)

my distaste for contemporary music and worship.

Shared, though I'm in the middle of it.

11 posted on 06/19/2010 7:43:14 PM PDT by Lee N. Field ("You fool! Don't you know every Taurus purchased brings us closer to TEOTWAWKI?")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: plain talk

Indeed all kinds of music of every genre and language can please God. Though I prefer the classic, traditional hymns, some of the most powerful, theologically rich lyrics I’ve heard in contemporary Christian music have been written by “Reformed” rap artists!


12 posted on 06/19/2010 7:45:09 PM PDT by CondoleezzaProtege
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: CondoleezzaProtege

Thanks. There’s an Orthodox congregation not too far from us and we’re planning to check it out. We’re ex-UCC (long ago) and Lutheran.


13 posted on 06/19/2010 7:47:06 PM PDT by NewHampshireDuo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: NewHampshireDuo
Is PCA same as Orthdox?

No. Different histories. Going from memory here, so my dates might be wrong. The OPC split from the Northern Presbyterians in 1936, the PCA split from the Southern Presbyterians in 1971. The OPC was originally the "Presbyterian Church in" (or of, I forget) "America". The main church sued over the name, and it became what you see now.

Lemme see....


14 posted on 06/19/2010 7:51:12 PM PDT by Lee N. Field ("You fool! Don't you know every Taurus purchased brings us closer to TEOTWAWKI?")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Lee N. Field

Actually the members of my church are all over the place with their doctrinal views (on non-essential issues of course: like baptism, eschatology, women’s leadership roles in the church, etc...) - but I do think what ties us together is the sense of tradition and history the Presbyterian church has...I was initially attracted to my church in particular, because of the pretty architecture. :)

I’m really not into the whole tech-savvy, mega-church vibe some of the “New Calvinists” promote.


15 posted on 06/19/2010 7:53:18 PM PDT by CondoleezzaProtege
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: plain talk; CondoleezzaProtege; Amerisrael
I come from a Catholic background as well and find the traditional music stuffy and boring just like the Catholic services. Been there done that. I love the contemporary music.

Posing the question as "traditional music vs. contemporary music" misses the point (IMHO, YMMV) completely.

16 posted on 06/19/2010 7:53:25 PM PDT by Lee N. Field ("You fool! Don't you know every Taurus purchased brings us closer to TEOTWAWKI?")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Lee N. Field

Thanks - impressive job with the Etch-a-Sketch!


17 posted on 06/19/2010 7:56:27 PM PDT by NewHampshireDuo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: NewHampshireDuo

Oh, praise God. :) The OPC has a wonderful website full of great writings and daily devotionals as well:

http://www.opc.org/


18 posted on 06/19/2010 7:59:26 PM PDT by CondoleezzaProtege
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: CondoleezzaProtege

Thank you very much.


19 posted on 06/19/2010 8:00:46 PM PDT by NewHampshireDuo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Amerisrael

Dave Shifflett wrote a great book “Exodus: Why Conservative Christians are Fleeing Liberal Churches” and discusses how many people feel no need to show up and hear the same value/moral system they can get from a t.v. sitcom. They go to church to hear God’s word. His real word, not some liberal’s new age take on His word.

CBF (liberal baptist) churches tend to lose numbers quickly, also. We visited my husband’s home church in a rapidly growing area (Fort Myers, FL) and they were down to 70 people (including the 7 of us visiting) in a church that seats 350+ (and used to be full). Liberal mush is what they are preaching. The conservative baptist church down the street was building a third sanctuary while the liberal (cbf) baptist church had only a few elderly who refused to give the church over to loft apartments. Social gospel and anti-racism sermons are the norm - like a bunch of hippies stuck in the 60’s.


20 posted on 06/19/2010 8:09:45 PM PDT by too much time (Were ANY educrats proficient at math in school?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Lee N. Field

Would you say, Lee N. Field, that Catholicism has its merits?

It’s wonderful you have such a knowledge on some of the questions affecting Presbyterians and the modern church in this country in general. I’d love to know more about where you stand on things and what direction you believe the church is going.


21 posted on 06/19/2010 8:16:52 PM PDT by CondoleezzaProtege
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: CondoleezzaProtege
"Oh, praise God. :) The OPC has a wonderful website full of great writings and daily devotionals as well:"

Check this one out. Even Better

22 posted on 06/19/2010 8:30:25 PM PDT by Natural Law (Don't automatically presume the voices in your hear are the Holy Spirit.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: plain talk
I come from a Catholic background as well and find the traditional music stuffy and boring just like the Catholic services. Been there done that. I love the contemporary music.

I find just the opposite to be true. The traditional music makes me much more focused on worship. Especially when in Latin. There is something about the traditional music that much more meditative.
23 posted on 06/19/2010 8:57:47 PM PDT by Angry_White_Man_Syndrome
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Amerisrael

This is nothing new. I was a Member and left YEARS ago (I was 20) over similar stunts.


24 posted on 06/19/2010 9:26:33 PM PDT by Colvin (Proud Owner '66 Binder PU, '66 Binder Travelall,)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Lee N. Field

They will end up like the Anglican church.
You go three times,
When your Hatched, Matched and Dispatched.


25 posted on 06/19/2010 9:28:49 PM PDT by Colvin (Proud Owner '66 Binder PU, '66 Binder Travelall,)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: CondoleezzaProtege
Would you say, Lee N. Field, that Catholicism has its merits?

The Romans have too much baggage. There's that whole thing with the anathemas of Trent ("we're unreformable!"). I'll pass. Endangering my soul by swimming the Tiber doesn't remotely tempt me.

It’s wonderful you have such a knowledge on some of the questions affecting Presbyterians

It's intertwined with places I have been. And, quien sabe?, may be again.

and the modern church in this country in general. I’d love to know more about where you stand on things and what direction you believe the church is going.

Do you? I'm grumpy right now. It was one of those Sundays where I had to filter what I heard real hard for gospel.

The church, Christ's body and bride and the true temple of God, the full number of the elect known only to God, the church that "the Son of God from the beginning to the end of the world, gathers, defends, and preserves to himself by his Spirit and word, out of the whole human race, a church chosen to everlasting life", that church will be preserved by God. Not one will be lost. That church, as C. S. Lewis opined wonderfully somewhere, will outlive the universe.

The corner of the visible institutional church that I inhabit has lived in Disneyland too long. Laodicean slumber all the way.

I'm far from alone in thinking this. There's a whole genre of books now, on the dire state of the conservative protestant church in America now. As a recommended for instance, order out Michael Horton's Christless Christianity.

Fortunately, America is not the world. Unfortunately for us, "Disneyland" will probably be coming to an end, historically soon.

Like I said, I'm feeling grumpy today.

26 posted on 06/20/2010 3:10:22 PM PDT by Lee N. Field ("You fool! Don't you know every Taurus purchased brings us closer to TEOTWAWKI?")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson