Posted on 06/28/2010 1:12:21 PM PDT by TaraP
Obama is a symptom of the disease. But I am astounded how homosexuality is accepted, at least by the media. I’m sure it was similar in the days of Sodom and Gomorrah.
Yeah, but...not even back in the Sodom and Gomorrah days did the perverts indoctrinate their children to embrace homosexuality lifestyles. Or did they? Hmmm...maybe that’s what cooked them.
Yikes.
We’re in big trouble.
Yes..I believe so.
No, I don't think the Bible teaches that. It is the grace of God, the blood of Christ covering our sins, that saves us. Our gratitude toward a loving and gracious God means our desire to please Him and follow Him and worship Him creates fruits of the spirit. When we 'try' to 'rid ourselves of these behaviors' we fail, because in our human frailty, we are incapable of managing our failings.
For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. Romans 7:19
And that was Paul! Imagine how important it is for the rest of us, like Paul, to admit that without Christ, God's grace and mercy, we are all sinners and deserve punishment. You can do nothing on your own strength or will--it is only through God's grace that we are forgiven and saved.
My sin of gluttony is on display for all to see in my physical overweight appearance. God loves me, and I struggle daily to fight the human condition I was born into. I am genetically predisposed to be fat. I am not genetically predisposed to be a glutton. But one leads to the other, and I must love God enough to fight my human failings that have led me to eat like a glutton. And gluttony leads to death the same way that homosexuality leads to death. Food is a 'god' and can become idol worship. And, many parents not only condone it, but teach it to their children and dismiss the notion that overeating and abuse of food is somehow not a sin. Schools provide fattening food to children and I don't see Christian parents storming the schools demanding they provide healthy food for their kids, whose bodies are temples of the Lord's.
I have many friends who are gay, and a few of them have chosen not to live the lifestyle because they have found the Lord. Others do practice homosexuality, but I can tell you that I am no better than they are in the eyes of God. God loves those precious souls the same as He loves me. His love for them is not lessened for their sin of homosexuality than it would be for my sin of gluttony. Or coveting, or lust. Sin is sin to God, and because He is holy, He cannot look upon us when we are covered in sin. Christ's blood provides redemption and forgiveness, and for my Jesus, that redemption extends to all for all sins, even for homosexuality.
Does this mean we should continue in sin? May it never be! As "Born Again Christians" does it mean we judge our neighbor? We are commanded against it. Does it mean we love our neighbor? We are commanded to do so. Do we participate in or condone their sinful behavior? No. But my comments were aimed at the hateful "Christian" vitriol I was reading in this thread about gay people, not their behavior.
Finally, what do we as Christians do in this political climate? We vote. We vote for people who will change the laws. But it is not our place to HATE the gay population, and I personally am ashamed every time so-called Christ followers take that tack, because it is NOT Christ-like.
"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?"Jesus in Matt. 7:1-3
I want a really, really generous and gracious measure when I stand before God. Not the one I see most so-called Christians using on those outside the church, which is also not Biblical.
But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you." - 1 Cor. 5:11-13
Don't even get me started on this list of sins and how many Christians practice them within the walls of most churches or their homes on a fairly regular basis...
Blessings.
I do not ever call them “gay;” only homosexual.
The whole answer to your post lies in the rest of Romans Chapter 1 which you quoted from. The second half of Romans 1 describes a scenario we see quite vividly today. In Romans 1:18-32 Paul describes a situation where God punishes those who would deny and turn away from him. His punishment is to turn them over to thier own sin and let them descend in it in an ever growing degeneration. Three times Paul says "and God gave them over..." as punishment for ignoring him. The penalty for sin is more sin. God takes away his common grace and lets us sink as far as we want to go until "though they know God's decree that those who practise such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval tho those who practice them." We are seeing Romans One played out today before our very eyes.
My problem with some of these saying that God sent, or God harden their hearts or blinded their eyes, puts God as the cause of their evil or sin....How does that comport with the nature of God? Would not God then be the cause of their sin or evil.
Amen, X. That seems to be the only reasonable, faithful answer which not coincidentally, gives all the glory to God alone.
"He (God) hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them." -- John 12:40
Nonsense.
Many people - my self included - used to be very tolerant of homosexuals - I knew it was disgusting and weird and sinful, but had a “live and let live” attitude. I worked with one, had a friendly relationship, I figured his life was his business. (I was also accosted twice by homosexuals and the experience was utterly repellent and disgusting, but I did not hate the individuals. I just said “NO!!!!” very emphatically.)
Until the mid 1980s, when I learned about the homosexual agenda. I started reading books, researching, and learned from others via newsletters and so on. And everything I feared has come to pass.
The homosexual agenda is pushing and promoting via the courts and legislation “Homo-Leninism” - forcing people against their will and against their moral values - to hire, associate with, allow fostering and adoptions, marriage and so on - homosexuals. Hate speech is against the law - many places you cannot say anything even “homosexuality is dangerous for the health” or “homosexuality is condemned in all the scriptures of the world”. Children are force-fed “gay is good” in schools and clubs.
Ever seen footage or photos of “Gay Pride” parades? There are some on FR - just yesterday or the day before. You think that should be on teh public streets? Sodomy in public? You think the promotion - by law - of homosexual depravity is equivalent to people eating too much or arrogance?
Do you see “Gluttony Pride” or “Adultery Pride” or “Lying Pride” parades? No? Are there hate speech laws or “senstivity training” about overeating? Mrs. 0thugga has a campaign against over eating - aka gluttony - so it’s okay to condemn that behavior. There are laws against muder, rape, slander - but homosexual behavior and those who practice and promote it have special protection under the law, to the extent that our freedoms such as freedom of speech, religion, and association are getting torn to shreds.
You are not getting the message. Most of us on FR for instance do not hate homosexuals as individuals (they are not “gay”, being happy and carefree is gay, and homosexuals are a miserable bunch of people), but we hate the “gay” agenda and feel compassion for those immersed in it, and angry at those promoting it - especially to children.
Sin is forgiven when pepole feel repentence, beg forgiveness, and vow to give up their previous sinful life. An occasional lapse (fewer and farther between or there is no sincerity) is different from expecting God and Jesus to wipe off our sins over and over again, as a type of blank check or credit of “salvation”. Remember what Jesus said to the adultress - “Go and sin no more!” Not “Everything you have done and will do is forgiven, so just continue to act like an animal and I’ll wash it all off, over and over again”! So a homosexual who begs God to forgive him will no longer identify as a homosexual nor will he engage in same sex acts any more.
Same thing with an adulterer, murderer, or anyone who sins. They will give up their sinful life. Not imagine that “I’m saved” but still live their same old life of sin.
Read about what God did to Pharaoh.
God is not the author of sin, but He exists outside of time. He knows who will and who won’t take His invitation to join Him in Eternity.
Those whom He knows will forever reject Him are used of Him to accomplish His purposes, which usually includes their destruction in this plane as well as in Eternity.
God knocks on the door of everyone’s hearts; many do not want to hear. It’s the free will He’s given every soul that either allows them to hear His voice within, or not hear.
None so blind as those who do not want to see. He never condemns anyone in that sense, we condemn ourselves. There is always the possibility of redemption, even up to the last minute of earthly life. Will everyone take that opportunity? It’s there for everyone.
That is my understanding.
One problem is that by living a life of grave sin and filling ones’ mind and heart with lies (via media, entertainment, propganda, porn etc) peoples’ hearts become harder and harder; basically calloused, so they cannot feel or hear the gentle voice and touch of God. That is very tragic.
Note my comment above.
That’s exactly what it’s saying, whether it admits to it or not.
Now that I can agree with instead of saying God did it to them...some people are just mean by nature and perverse by nature, I don't think God does it to them...Perhaps if he choose to he could change them, but that is different than saying He harden their hearts or blinded their eyes..God chooses whom he chooses...protects those he wishes to protect, and owes no one anything.
He gives us the blessed gift of free will, so that when we love Him or try to please Him, it is an offering of love, not enforced servitude.
With no choice, there is no love. Love means I am free to choose not to love. He reciprocates according to peoples’ degree of sincere surrender - which is often helped along by hard times - personal struggles - when we realize how actually helpless, adrift and alone we are without His loving shelter.
Think of a mother or father with a rebellious child - you can’t hug or console an angry, rebellious child. Only when the child is sorry, crying, wanting a hug, can you really hug them and then they are receptive to hearing “I love you!”
Nonsense
What I said wasn't nonsense, especially the part that came out of Scripture.
and Most of us on FR for instance do not hate homosexuals as individuals
My observation in this particular thread, and what motivated my post in the first place, was the hateful rhetoric that was being aimed at gays, not their agenda/behavior/lifestyle, etc. And, if you recall, in my post, I indicated that the only way for Christians to truly stop this was to vote. Hating gay people doesn't fix anything; in fact, I would suggest that it has done nothing but motivate them to push even harder.
And, finally, on a political note, I can find nothing in the Constitution that doesn't grant them equal rights under the law. Many so-called "Christians" didn't think women or blacks should have any rights either. Many thought it was okay to consider them less-than-human, undeserving of protection under the law, much less the right to vote. And they used their 'religion' to support that belief.
I do not disagree that the gay agenda has begun to cross a line once reserved for Christian zealots in this country. But I do not agree that it is a behavior strictly reserved for gay people. I've seen many Christians try to force others to accept their 'way of life' as well throughout our history. It is this behavior that, IMHO, has urged the gay agenda on to behave in the socially unacceptable manner you mention in your post.
And to that end, you are free to abstain from any gay pride parade you do not wish to see. And local public indecency laws ought to prevent the kinds of offensive public displays from happening, but if there are no laws on the books, then whose fault is that? The local citizenry that has not made it an issue.
If you don't like what the schools are teaching, send them to a private school or home school. No one forces people to send their kids to the public screwels. My children went to public schools and were exposed to a lot of liberal doctrine I didn't believe in or condone, and I had to do a lot of unteaching at home, but then that's the parent's responsibility, not the school's. My children are both conservatives, in spite of what the schools tried to instill in them.
And no one is forcing you to hire a gay person if he/she is not qualified for the job. But, you shouldn't be asking such questions in an interview, so besides personal assumptions, stereotypes and bias, how would you really know if someone was gay or not? And if they are, and they are qualified for the job, I don't see how their sexuality ought to be considered 'offensive' any more than if they were black or a woman. Unless they start behaving inappropriately on the job(such as the sexual harassment incident you described), they ought to be protected under our Constitution from discrimination based on anything. Discrimination of any kind is wrong under our Constitution that provides equal protection for all.
Finally, as I pointed out in my other post, the Bible says it is not my place to judge a person who is not a brother or sister. Sinners, outside of the church, are to be judged by God, not me. If someone is in the church and is practicing homosexuality openly, the Scriptures have a clear path for dealing with such individuals. So, I don't condone churches that are welcoming practicing gays. I believe they are getting it wrong. But, I also think a lot of Christians behave in such a way to fuel the 'gay agenda' fire and more could be done to help these unhappy souls than by trying to ostracize and demonize them as people or violate their Constitutional protection as equal citizens.
Indeed it was, if they repent. (That applies to any sin, of course.)
The problem, however, is that at least some homosexuals are trying to convince the rest of us that same gender sex is not a sin at all. They are layering sin upon sin (deceitfulness and lying being added to sexual sin), and expect the rest of us to celebrate it.
Uh, no.
Where I think you are going wrong, is with *Christians* attacking homosexuals, it is only a small group of people named *Westboro Baptist Church* who claim to be christian and act in this hateful way.
Homosexuals are not new to society, every generation has had them. I remember my folks talking about how great of an actor Rock Hudson was, and my mother saying he is so handsome but he is queer. (The word they used at that time)
Anyway’s they did not hate Rock Hudson nor did anyone else talk about him in that manner, because it was an issue he was dealing with, it was his struggle and he was not trying to force anyone, to become involved in his struggle and change the laws and morality of society.
Then times a changin, and the early 80’s came around then we started to hear about those Gay Bathhouses, and Parades limited to a couple of US Cities, then of course the AIDS Epidemic. Now here we are today.....What are *Christians* to do? We have homosexuals who want to change the entire *Fiber of our Country* Marraige.....Let’s attack the one union we hold to be sacred, and the union that has brought fourth *Order* in the Family.
I won’t go into all the other issues they have made political because we all know them. This is a Moral fight they brought to us, not us to them.....
Each and every time the Citizens had been given their Constitutional right to vote on *GAY Marraige* they have voted NO..Marriage is 1 Man and 1 Woman, however they don’t respect the vote of the American Citizens and want to fight on about this issue....
They have brought all of this deviancy and debauchery and immorality to a GOD-fearing, GOD loving and Moral Society.
Agreed. You don’t have to change your religious beliefs and embrace or condone their sinful behavior. Christians have an awfully hard time separating sin from the person, though.
And, don’t forget, that ‘trying to convince’ goes both ways. We are trying to convince them that Jesus is the way to true happiness. Do we do a good job of that by acting toward them the say way they act toward us?
Uh, no.
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