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Salvadoran Catholic Church asks President Funes to veto Bible reading in schools (Translated)
La Prensa Grafica (El Salvador) ^ | July 11, 2010 | Stefany Jovel with reporting from Loida Martínez

Posted on 07/11/2010 12:05:34 PM PDT by ConservativeMind

"On behalf of the Catholic Church in El Salvador and society in general, we ask Mr. President to use his executive power to veto the decree referred to upholding the rule of law and democracy of our Salvadoran society"

The Episcopal Conference of El Salvador (CEDES) demanded on Sunday the president Mauricio Funes veto a legislative decree that compels us to read the Bible in schools, believing that "violates" the "religious freedom" enshrined in the Constitution.

The CEDES Funes makes the call under in the coming days must be punished, veto or observe the legislative decree 411 which provides read the Bible in classrooms to combat violence.

The education of children in the faith, according to the bishops, "is a right and duty" of parents, aided by ministers of religion.

"We are interested in reading the Bible, but not as imposing liability in the schools, hopefully becoming more read the Bible is more understood, more practiced," says the shepherd.

(Excerpt) Read more at translate.google.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; General Discusssion
KEYWORDS: moralabsolutes
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This is the Google Translation, but effectively, the Catholic Archbishop over El Salvador opposes a new law, passed by the El Salvadorian equivalent of Congress. They are demanding that El Salvador's president veto the bill.

Apparently the Catholic church is afraid people will hear the true Word without their baggage added onto it.

1 posted on 07/11/2010 12:05:37 PM PDT by ConservativeMind
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To: Gamecock; Alex Murphy

Ping of interest!


2 posted on 07/11/2010 12:07:17 PM PDT by ConservativeMind (Hypocrisy: "Animal rightists" who eat meat & pen up pets while accusing hog farmers of cruelty.)
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To: ConservativeMind
This is a pretty disgusting twisting of the facts on your part.

Catholic, Baptist and Pentecostal leaders are all opposing this move, because it involves individual teachers deciding which religion they want to teach in their classroom. it is seen also as an assault by liberals in the government on Christian schools of every denomination - by mandating a watered-down state-approved version of liberal Christianity the charters of the Christian schools will be labeled superfluous and will not be renewed.

3 posted on 07/11/2010 12:15:50 PM PDT by wideawake
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To: wideawake

Ah, the rest of the story. Thank you.


4 posted on 07/11/2010 12:19:53 PM PDT by Jvette
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To: ConservativeMind

Actually a number of different Christian groups have opposed this. The problem is the same one that happened here in the 19th century - the teacher of the class will choose how to interpret the Bible. Some of those teachers will undoubtedly mock the scriptures because they are unbelievers.

Those who aren’t anti-Catholic bigots would know this or at least look into it. Anti-Catholics, however, are too lazy or stupid to do that much work or have taht much integrity.

http://www.ethicsdaily.com/news.php?viewStory=16344


5 posted on 07/11/2010 12:24:48 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Part of the Vast Catholic Conspiracy (hat tip to Kells))
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To: wideawake; vladimir998

Actually, you are both grossly wrong. My wife speaks fluent Spanish and she says this law mandates reading from the Bible WITHOUT INTERPRETATION. Scripture will be read verbatim without any thing else said by the teachers.

By the way, any Protestant “leaders” against this are liberals, as is the Catholic church on this matter.

Learn Spanish and read up on it. How dare you be against this.


6 posted on 07/11/2010 12:38:20 PM PDT by ConservativeMind (Hypocrisy: "Animal rightists" who eat meat & pen up pets while accusing hog farmers of cruelty.)
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To: ConservativeMind; Irisshlass; informavoracious; larose; RJR_fan; Prospero; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.

7 posted on 07/11/2010 12:40:33 PM PDT by narses ( 'Prefer nothing to the love of Christ.')
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To: vladimir998

Vlad, you gave us an article that doesn’t say ANYTHING ABOUT INTERPRETING the Scripture in class—apparently, that won’t be done.

What your article gives us is merely concerns around WHICH version of the Bible will have its verses read from.

Didn’t you even read it? Oh, by the way, anti-Protestant bigots would have read it, I would have thought.


8 posted on 07/11/2010 12:41:03 PM PDT by ConservativeMind (Hypocrisy: "Animal rightists" who eat meat & pen up pets while accusing hog farmers of cruelty.)
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To: ConservativeMind

You wrote:

“Vlad, you gave us an article that doesn’t say ANYTHING ABOUT INTERPRETING the Scripture in class—apparently, that won’t be done.”

It will be. Students will ask questions and teachers will answer them - according to their own beliefs.

“What your article gives us is merely concerns around WHICH version of the Bible will have its verses read from.”

And that is a huge issue. It will also foster Indifferentism. That too is a huge issue.

“Didn’t you even read it? Oh, by the way, anti-Protestant bigots would have read it, I would have thought.”

Would have thought? You mean you don’t know?


9 posted on 07/11/2010 12:46:07 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Part of the Vast Catholic Conspiracy (hat tip to Kells))
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

Ping of interest.


10 posted on 07/11/2010 12:46:28 PM PDT by ConservativeMind (Hypocrisy: "Animal rightists" who eat meat & pen up pets while accusing hog farmers of cruelty.)
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Wow. Talk about ignore-rant. Sometimes I think the folks who post these threads have the intellect of a fire ant.


11 posted on 07/11/2010 12:50:22 PM PDT by big'ol_freeper ("Anyone pushing Romney must love socialism...Piss on Romney and his enablers!!" ~ Jim Robinson)
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To: vladimir998

I love hearing you debate issues from “the Catholic perspective”. You always put it just right, Vlad.

Apparently, you said that “teachers” would interpret, then, when shown your words and interpretation is BOGUS, you then say the equivalent of, “Well, it’s almost the same thing if students interpret the words on their own or ask questions about it.”

Get real.

Oh, now the real issues around this, according to you, is NOT that teachers would “interpret”, since now you’ve been kicked with that one, but, instead, that the Bible translation and possible “indifferentism” (whatever the HECK that word is) will occur?

Your words are just so much clanging in the wind, Vlad.


12 posted on 07/11/2010 12:51:06 PM PDT by ConservativeMind (Hypocrisy: "Animal rightists" who eat meat & pen up pets while accusing hog farmers of cruelty.)
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To: big'ol_freeper

This is a legitimate article from a major news organization in Central America.

It is what it is. And it’s scary that the Catholic church is against a country trying to minimize gang violence by mandating Bible readings in school.


13 posted on 07/11/2010 12:52:33 PM PDT by ConservativeMind (Hypocrisy: "Animal rightists" who eat meat & pen up pets while accusing hog farmers of cruelty.)
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To: ConservativeMind

Cheese goes well with silly whine


14 posted on 07/11/2010 12:55:49 PM PDT by big'ol_freeper ("Anyone pushing Romney must love socialism...Piss on Romney and his enablers!!" ~ Jim Robinson)
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To: ConservativeMind

You wrote:

“Oh, now the real issues around this, according to you, is NOT that teachers would “interpret”, since now you’ve been kicked with that one,”

Didn’t happen. As I said, teachers will interpret - no matter what the law actually says. Tecahers will answer questions - and that will mean interpretation. A translation will be selected over others - and that means interpretation. Particular verses will be picked - and that means interpretation.

“but, instead, that the Bible translation and possible “indifferentism” (whatever the HECK that word is) will occur?”

Indifferentism. Before you condemn what you don’t seem to know, I suggest you look it up.

“Your words are just so much clanging in the wind, Vlad.”

No, my words will be shown to be correct.


15 posted on 07/11/2010 12:59:58 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Part of the Vast Catholic Conspiracy (hat tip to Kells))
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To: vladimir998
When I see threads and read posts by anti-Catholic bigots attaching motives and misrepresenting the actual situation as well as voicing feigned indignation all I can think is
16 posted on 07/11/2010 1:06:36 PM PDT by big'ol_freeper ("Anyone pushing Romney must love socialism...Piss on Romney and his enablers!!" ~ Jim Robinson)
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To: ConservativeMind
In other words, we are to disbelieve pastors from three different churches and to consider them liberals because some anonymous guy on the Internet says that his wife speaks Spanish and disagrees with them.

Right.

Since your wife has access to the Spanish sources, why don't you post the Spanish text of the law? It would be an interesting read. Why didn't you get your wife to translate the article instead of Google? Surely her version would be more reliable, si?

17 posted on 07/11/2010 1:07:46 PM PDT by wideawake
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To: vladimir998; All

Man, you are grasping at straws to save yourself.

First of all, that the Catholic church would actively protest a country trying to get Bible reading in schools is so perverted. Apparently we are to assume the Catholic church would be against such a law here? I’m curious, was the Catholic church in the US on the side of atheists as court cases ruled even “moments of silence” are wrong? I mean, there’s a big problem with interpreting what might come up in someone’s mind when silent, right?

Back to your words. In your first post, these were your words on the matter:

“The problem is the same one that happened here in the 19th century - the teacher of the class will choose how to interpret the Bible.”

When your own article post shows that’s not the case at all, you then add that “teachers will answer questions - and that will mean interpretation.” Uh, yeah, right. Do you realize 90 percent of those teachers will be Catholics?? I don’t even care if they give the CATHOLIC version on that—just get the actual BIBLE read in the darn classes and let’s see what happens.

Man, how can you be against 9 out of 10 teachers giving the CATHOLIC version of how to interpret that stuff?

So, you are the anti-Catholic here, not me, it would appear.


18 posted on 07/11/2010 1:10:16 PM PDT by ConservativeMind (Hypocrisy: "Animal rightists" who eat meat & pen up pets while accusing hog farmers of cruelty.)
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Comment #19 Removed by Moderator

To: ConservativeMind

Haven’t changed much have they...Satans workers are very busy...


20 posted on 07/11/2010 1:27:55 PM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: Jvette; ConservativeMind
Univision reports that: El decreto aprobado establece que las lecturas serán seleccionadas por el Ministerio de or, as CM's would no doubt tell him, the approved law establishes that the readings will selections chosen by the Ministry of Education.

While I'm sure we can all be confident that the state will provide selections that are not tailor made to any ulterior purpose -heaven knows all good conservatives in the USA blindly trust our Department of Education - is it possible that individual teachers will put a spin on the passages that the Ministry allows? I know American teachers can always be trusted never to allow their personal opinions to intrude into the classroom, but . . .

21 posted on 07/11/2010 1:28:02 PM PDT by wideawake
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To: wideawake
The Bible was taught in US schools for many years. It was also used to teach reading. Was there something wrong with with that among conservatives?
22 posted on 07/11/2010 1:28:26 PM PDT by elpadre (AfganistaMr Obama said the goal was to "disrupt, dismantle and defeat al-Qaeda" and its allies.)
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To: wideawake
This is a pretty disgusting twisting of the facts on your part.

Catholic, Baptist and Pentecostal leaders are all opposing this move, because it involves individual teachers deciding which religion they want to teach in their classroom. it is seen also as an assault by liberals in the government on Christian schools of every denomination - by mandating a watered-down state-approved version of liberal Christianity the charters of the Christian schools will be labeled superfluous and will not be renewed.

Where's the article that confirms your story???

23 posted on 07/11/2010 1:31:38 PM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: ConservativeMind
La CEDES reconoce "las buenas intenciones" de los diputados que promulgaron el decreto 411, pero advierten que "lamentablemente la sola lectura bíblica sin la debida explicación y en un ambiente carente de fe no forma valores como se pretende".

This is the money quote and it makes perfect sense. The Catholic Church, still, to the absolute amazement of many, teaches that truth is one and all else is error. Thus, Scripture certainly requires "la debida explicacion". The authentic interpretation of Scripture and the deposit of faith is a gift from God to the Church, which allows us to safeguard the truth and pass it on untainted.

Call that "baggage", if you wish, but the YOPIOS approach yields confusion and a gaggle of conflicting voices.

The Catholic Church believes that God does far more than simply toss us a Bible and say "go figure". That might be the Protestant approach but God is a far better Father than that. He gives us the certitude of the truth.

What a surprise that the Church should wish to safeguard it.

24 posted on 07/11/2010 1:34:46 PM PDT by marshmallow ("A country which kills its own children has no future" -Mother Teresa of Calcutta)
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To: elpadre
In those days, there was a general consensus that the text of the Bible was to be respected and not used as a political weapon.

El Salvador in 2010 is not the USA in 1950.

The government here specifically says that the goal here is to use it as part of the government's anti-crime campaign. in other words: "Even the Bible says the government is right!" That doesn't make me feel too comfortable.

25 posted on 07/11/2010 1:37:30 PM PDT by wideawake
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To: vladimir998
Actually a number of different Christian groups have opposed this. The problem is the same one that happened here in the 19th century - the teacher of the class will choose how to interpret the Bible. Some of those teachers will undoubtedly mock the scriptures because they are unbelievers.

The law, which "institutes the reading of passages of the Bible on a daily basis and in a systematic way in all of the educational institutions of the country," was approved by the Salvadorian parliament. The readings will take place for up to seven minutes without additional commentaries.

I'm thinking you're just worried that more people will find out that the real church is not the Catholic religion...

26 posted on 07/11/2010 1:37:44 PM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: ConservativeMind; Jvette; vladimir998

BTW, in El Salvador Prensa is the liberal paper and Hoy is the conservative.


27 posted on 07/11/2010 1:41:06 PM PDT by wideawake
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To: ConservativeMind; Tax-chick

This doesn’t sound right. Calling someone who can translate it correctly.

There’s got to be more to this story. Like someone else deciding what children are taught rather than the parents.


28 posted on 07/11/2010 1:47:16 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Iscool

http://ethicsdaily.com/news.php?viewStory=16344


29 posted on 07/11/2010 1:47:24 PM PDT by wideawake
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To: wideawake

Don’t confuse a good anti-Catholic fetish orgy with facts. They don’t want to let go of the blood lust.


30 posted on 07/11/2010 1:50:18 PM PDT by big'ol_freeper ("Anyone pushing Romney must love socialism...Piss on Romney and his enablers!!" ~ Jim Robinson)
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To: ConservativeMind

Are you sure the Catholic Church is liberal??? LOL!

The Catholic Church is the only church, ONLY church, I repeat that has stood against abortion, homosexuality, euthanasia, embryonic stem-cell research, infatnacide — and the list goes on — same sex marriage.

Protestant churches have caved on these matters. Aren’t you aware of the number of Protestants that are coming back to the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church??

Please educate yourself.


31 posted on 07/11/2010 1:51:58 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: wideawake; All
The actual text of the bill is not yet available, but even the president (who is Catholic) says he agrees with the bill in principle. We've searched for it for posting, and may do so when it is available.

Another good article here:

http://migenteinforma.org/presidente-funes-acuerdo-con-lectura-de-biblia-en-centros-escolares/

From that:

President Mauricio Funes said Tuesday July 6 that in principle he agrees with the reading of the Bible in schools, but pointed out that when you receive the decree of the Legislative Assembly, listen to different sectors and Registrar legal affairs office, before making a decision...

The decree passed by 45 votes in legislative fractions, except FMLN and CD, provides that prior to the start of the school day the Bible is read by an average of 7 minutes without performing any comments religious, sectarian or denominational.

The two paragraphs above are from Google Translate, so that you would not think I “colored” the truth.

32 posted on 07/11/2010 2:01:59 PM PDT by ConservativeMind (Hypocrisy: "Animal rightists" who eat meat & pen up pets while accusing hog farmers of cruelty.)
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To: Salvation

The legislature thinks reading the Bible in schools will combat violence. The bishops say that’s a nice thought, but that simply reading the Bible, without any instruction about what’s being read, is unlikely to help with that goal. And that if there is “teaching” being done, in addition to simply reading from the Bible, that is religious instruction which is not within the purview of the state. They say that religious instruction is the right and duty of parents, to be accomplished with the assistance of the parents’ chosen religious community.

OF COURSE Salvadoran Catholics have a perfectly good Spanish Bible (a number of versions) available to them. I own one, myself, “Latinoamerica, Edicion Pastoral.” Half the people in our Spanish charismatic prayer/Bible study group are Salvadoran. They know their Bible quite well.


33 posted on 07/11/2010 2:02:25 PM PDT by Tax-chick (We made a proactive decision to postpone the originally scheduled nightlife activities.)
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To: wideawake

Thank you. I knew that didn’t sound quite right.


34 posted on 07/11/2010 2:02:38 PM PDT by Desdemona (VIVA ESPANA! No relation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yg3cshE_HbU)
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To: Salvation

Thank you!

I came back for just that reason.


35 posted on 07/11/2010 2:03:17 PM PDT by BenKenobi (I want to hear more about Sam! Samwise the stouthearted!)
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To: Salvation

When they scour the internet to try to find any anti-Catholic screed they can, even at an amazing stretch of reality, I understand they keep a drip-cloth between themselves and the computer to catch the saliva.

Just an interesting piece of information.


36 posted on 07/11/2010 2:05:21 PM PDT by big'ol_freeper ("Anyone pushing Romney must love socialism...Piss on Romney and his enablers!!" ~ Jim Robinson)
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To: ConservativeMind
"How dare you be against this."

Because it opens the door for mandatory reading of the Koran too.

37 posted on 07/11/2010 2:06:22 PM PDT by Natural Law (Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus)
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To: wideawake

By the way, the two parties against the bill are the FMLN and the CD.

When you look those up, you realize they are Communist parties. I’m sure you remember the FMLN from years ago.


38 posted on 07/11/2010 2:10:34 PM PDT by ConservativeMind (Hypocrisy: "Animal rightists" who eat meat & pen up pets while accusing hog farmers of cruelty.)
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To: ConservativeMind
How dare you be against this.

Because religious education and discipleship belong in the family and in the church - whatever church the family chooses - not in government institutions. I would oppose mandatory Bible reading in the county schools for which I pay taxes, for the same reason. State imposition of any religious practice is unsuitable.

39 posted on 07/11/2010 2:10:51 PM PDT by Tax-chick (We made a proactive decision to postpone the originally scheduled nightlife activities.)
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To: Natural Law

No, because it must be the Bible.

The real controversy is over which translation of the Bible might be read, or if that was up to the teachers, of which over 90 percent are Catholic, so I really don’t get the issue from any Catholics here on this.

It’s bizarre.


40 posted on 07/11/2010 2:11:50 PM PDT by ConservativeMind (Hypocrisy: "Animal rightists" who eat meat & pen up pets while accusing hog farmers of cruelty.)
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To: BenKenobi

41 posted on 07/11/2010 2:13:35 PM PDT by big'ol_freeper ("Anyone pushing Romney must love socialism...Piss on Romney and his enablers!!" ~ Jim Robinson)
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To: ConservativeMind

“Apparently the Catholic church is afraid people will hear the true Word without their baggage added onto it.”

Something I am coming to understand is a “tradition” in that church.


42 posted on 07/11/2010 2:13:51 PM PDT by Grunthor (I like you but when the zombies chase us, I'm tripping you.)
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To: Tax-chick
Because religious education and discipleship belong in the family and in the church - whatever church the family chooses - not in government institutions. I would oppose mandatory Bible reading in the county schools for which I pay taxes, for the same reason. State imposition of any religious practice is unsuitable.

A religiously neutral education is **impossible**. All schools must choose between either a godless worldview or a God-centered one. Neither are religiously neutral in content or consequences. Therefore government schools should be BANNED!

Solution: Begin the process of privatizing universal K-12 education. Get government OUT of the education business. It is impossible to be religiously neutral.

43 posted on 07/11/2010 2:15:43 PM PDT by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid.)
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To: wintertime

I agree. Government run education is an invention of communism. Public schools should be privatized and all parents should choose where their children are educated. That creates a true subsidiary relationship that government should have.


44 posted on 07/11/2010 2:19:02 PM PDT by big'ol_freeper ("Anyone pushing Romney must love socialism...Piss on Romney and his enablers!!" ~ Jim Robinson)
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To: ConservativeMind

Last sentence of article: “Este domingo, el arzobispo de San Salvador, José Luis Escobar, rechazó la posición de pastores evangélicos que acusan a la iglesia católica de temer a la lectura de la Biblia porque no la alienta entre sus feligreses.”

This Sunday, the archbishop of San Salvador, José Luis Escobar, rejected the position of evangelical pastors who accuse the Catholic Church of fearing the reading of the Bible because it does not encourage it among its parishioners.

Obviously not all “protestants” were against the new law requiring (only) reading of the Bible.


45 posted on 07/11/2010 2:22:14 PM PDT by Chaguito
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To: ConservativeMind

Parties that are officially atheist cannot, of course, vote for such a law. This doesn’t mean that a law mandating Bible readings selected by the state as part of a larger government policy initiative is a good idea for believers.


46 posted on 07/11/2010 2:27:43 PM PDT by wideawake
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To: Tax-chick

**OF COURSE Salvadoran Catholics have a perfectly good Spanish Bible (a number of versions) available to them. I own one, myself, “Latinoamerica, Edicion Pastoral.” Half the people in our Spanish charismatic prayer/Bible study group are Salvadoran. They know their Bible quite well.**

Thanks so much — and a lot of other posters thank you too.


47 posted on 07/11/2010 2:32:31 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: wintertime
A religiously neutral education is **impossible**. All schools must choose between either a godless worldview or a God-centered one. Neither are religiously neutral in content or consequences.

I agree.

And in the bigger picture, the insinuation of government into ever more areas of life that should be the private preserve of individuals, families, congregations and communities is something that all conservatives should oppose.

48 posted on 07/11/2010 2:33:59 PM PDT by Tax-chick (We made a proactive decision to postpone the originally scheduled nightlife activities.)
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To: BenKenobi

Many are following in your footsteps, too, Ben.

Welcome home to you and to all who are on their way! I know that they are out there reading threads, because I get notes and questions from them. Big smile...........................


49 posted on 07/11/2010 2:34:51 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: ConservativeMind

Why then is the Catholic Church against it? Is this Catholic organization representative of the Catholic Church in El Salvador?


50 posted on 07/11/2010 2:37:38 PM PDT by little jeremiah
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