Posted on 07/15/2010 7:46:51 AM PDT by greyfoxx39
I am really sorry you had that experience. As with any church, the problem with Christianity is Christians :-) People are all too human and will let you down and fail you at some point. That’s why you can’t put your trust and reliance on a human, no matter how high their ivory tower sits on a hill.
I’m a little wary of modern day “casting out demons”. I’ve never seen anyone do it and I’m not sure what I believe about it.
But anyway, they weren’t listening to demons, they were talking to one (imaginary or not). I asked Resty how one could know if a demon was speaking to one or not
“snarky spirits”, LOL!
First Sandy is bothered by the idea of casting out demons and then you say that someone could be “under the influence” of a snarky spirit.
Maybe you just really want to say that PEOPLE can be snarky but are trying to be clever and get one past the RM.
But if you’re right, how would one go about casting out a snarky spirit?
Oops, courtesy post Else.
In Alma 34:35-36 we read: "For behold, if ye have procrastinated the day of your repentance even until death, behold ye have become subjected to the spirit of the devil, and he does seal you his. Therefore, the spirit of the Lord has withdrawn from you and hath no place in you; the power of the devil is over you, and this is the final state of the wicked."
In other words, those who die as non-Mormons go to hell, period. There’s no suggestion of a later, vicarious admission into the Mormon church.
We also see present-day Mormon doctrine contradicted in 2 Nephi 9:15: "And it shall come to pass that when all men shall have passed from this first death unto life, insomuch as they have become immortal, they must appear before the judgment seat of the Holy One of Israel, and then cometh the judgment and then must they be judged according to the holy judgment of God.
For the Lord God hath spoken it, and it is his eternal word, which cannot pass away, that they who are righteous shall be righteous still, and they who are filthy shall be filthy still; wherefore, they who are filthy . . . shall go away into everlasting fire, prepared for them; and their torment is as a lake of fire and brimstone, whose flame ascendeth up forever and ever and has no end."
It is unforunate that Smith abandoned his own, earlier doctrine. It would not have made the Mormon scriptures any more authentic, but it would have prevented millions of futile Mormon proxy baptisms from being performed.
back later
“One time my husband and I were visiting non active members and we happened upon this barbeque group who were drunk and we told them we were members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints looking for so-and-so. This drunk man started cursing at us and he said, “We’re Christians around here - go away, get lost, you Mormons!” Scott and I later laughed about it but when you think about it, it’s really really sad.”
The astounding thing is that even though they were drunk, they still recognized you as cultists!
Nice to meet people of conviction.
Wow!
HAve you ever heard the stories told by folks going through their endowment rituals in the temple?
And how creeped out and appalled THEY were?
Were them crazy PENTACOSTALS touched anywhere NAKED??
Here’s a funny story:
My family and I were tent camping in a nice family campground in Northern Utah. By 10:30 most people had put away the marshmallows, banked the campfire and tucked in for the night.
However, one rowdy group kept hooting and hollering and cursing and laughing until well after midnight. We tossed and turned and put pillows over our ears, and finally got up and tapped on the trailer of the campground manager.
They put a quick stop to the party and after about 20 minutes the whole place settled down with sighs of relief.
Suddenly, one of the partiers yelled at the top of his lungs, “EFFING MORMONS!!!”
You could have heard a mouse burp in the echoing silence, and then one tiny voice from a few sites away from us said, “We’re Catholic”
Boy!
That LORD sure changes his mind a lot!!
John 1:28:
These things took place in Bethany beyond the Jordan, where John was baptizing.
(Jesus baptised in RIVER...)
27So he got up and went; and there was an Ethiopian eunuch, a court official of Candace, queen of the Ethiopians, who was in charge of all her treasure; and he had come to Jerusalem to worship,
28and he was returning and sitting in his chariot, and was reading the prophet Isaiah.
29Then the Spirit said to Philip, "Go up and join this chariot."
30Philip ran up and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet, and said, "Do you understand what you are reading?"
31And he said, "Well, how could I, unless someone guides me?" And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.
32Now the passage of Scripture which he was reading was this:
"HE WAS LED AS A SHEEP TO SLAUGHTER;
AND AS A LAMB BEFORE ITS SHEARER IS SILENT,
SO HE DOES NOT OPEN HIS MOUTH.
33"IN HUMILIATION HIS JUDGMENT WAS TAKEN AWAY;
WHO WILL RELATE HIS GENERATION?
FOR HIS LIFE IS REMOVED FROM THE EARTH."
34The eunuch answered Philip and said, "Please tell me, of whom does the prophet say this? Of himself or of someone else?"
35Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture he preached Jesus to him.
36As they went along the road they came to some water; and the eunuch said, "Look! Water! What prevents me from being baptized?"
37[And Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart, you may." And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."]
38And he ordered the chariot to stop; and they both went down into the water, Philip as well as the eunuch, and he baptized him.
39When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord snatched Philip away; and the eunuch no longer saw him, but went on his way rejoicing.
40But Philip found himself at Azotus, and as he passed through he kept preaching the gospel to all the cities until he came to Caesarea.
(Who knows what kind of 'water' this was: a stream? farm pond? irrigation ditch?)
Point is - no temple was needed for 'baptism'.
Ha!
I can read; but you can’t spel!
If there is naked touching involved in baptising for the dead, I can understand why the LDS church would not want this to be accomplished on the side of a river. However, it seems as if the privacy of the people involved could be served with a modest building, rather than an imposing, mega-million dollar ediface.
Can too :-) “Else” = short for Elsie. (Since two syllables are soooooo long)
Is naked touching involved in personal baptism? I know most LDS are baptised at the age of eight so I can’t imagine this would be allowed.
But if not, why is it necessary to do naked touching for proxy baptisms?
Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized into[the name of Paul? I am thankful that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, so no one can say that you were baptized into my name. (Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don't remember if I baptized anyone else.) For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel?not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.
No, the ENDOWMENT ceremony...
“I see.” says Elsie.
OK, I Googled “Mormon Endowment Ceremony” and I’m up on that now.
So if, as Norm points put, the early Christians and the early LDS did not need a temple in which to perform baptisms for the dead, they must have also performed their endowment ceremonies without benefit of a temple.
So why is it considered necessary now? For instance the Phillipines - I understand they recently built a temple there. Were the Phillipino LDS denied their endowments before the temple was built? If so, why?
How pretty!
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