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MORMON CHRISTOLOGY: A CHRIST-TEST FOR CHRISTIAN IDENTITY - OPEN
ONTRUTH.com ^ | 2000 | Cky J. Carrigan

Posted on 07/15/2010 7:46:51 AM PDT by greyfoxx39

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To: Godzilla

151


151 posted on 07/17/2010 7:45:01 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: restornu

In case you missed the question:

.....................

Now, do you want to just be straightforward and tell us
whether a mormon must do anything to get into the highest
level of heaven or must she do nothing?

Which?

....................

best,
ampu


152 posted on 07/17/2010 7:48:35 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: restornu; Blowtorch

Coming from a Protestant background, you just wouldn’t find baptism as a requirement.

There have been changes in canon for Catholics but there have been “extenuating circumstances” in which your salvation would still be assured, even though you had not been baptized.


153 posted on 07/17/2010 8:03:46 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion; bone52; JDW11235; Normandy; 1010RD; Paragon Defender; Saundra Duffy; ...
BTW I just read the last half post # 148

Hebrew 12

6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.

11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

12 Wherefore lift up the hands which hang down, and the feeble knees;

13 And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.

14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;

16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.

17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,

19 And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:

20 (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:

21 And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake:)

22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

Will you be in the first or second resurrection?

24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

New Covenant The trial of our faith precedes salvation—Christ foreordained to be the Redeemer.

25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:

26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.

27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.

28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

NO MORE "HEY MAN"!

29 For our God is a consuming fire.

The Spirit of God

154 posted on 07/17/2010 8:28:53 PM PDT by restornu
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To: restornu

Ah yes... You’ve gone all around and not given a simple answer again.

I will be more than happy to talk about the Bible, but will you answer the question?

Must a Mormon do anything to get into the highest level of heaven, or is there nothing she must do?

Ampu


155 posted on 07/17/2010 8:41:19 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

I know who I am and what is expected of me and it has nothing to do with your STRAWMAN SPIN VERSION!


156 posted on 07/17/2010 8:47:16 PM PDT by restornu
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To: restornu

Ah yes... Another common mormonic avoidance technique. I expected as much.

And so I will not comment on the passage you quoted except to note it had nothing to do with what I posted about. I expected as much.

:-)


157 posted on 07/17/2010 8:52:44 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: restornu

Thank you my darling. I love you.


158 posted on 07/17/2010 9:24:03 PM PDT by Utah Binger (Mount Carmel Utah, where Mr. Milquetoast lives with his "Persecution Complex")
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To: Utah Binger

My heart is glad for you I fine your spirit sharing and loving.


159 posted on 07/17/2010 9:34:25 PM PDT by restornu
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

Hi Ampu,

If I may make a comment here, I think it is clear that LDS believe that something is required of them to receive the highest reward that God has to offer.

I don’t believe that just believing in Jesus in my mind or confessing with my lips is enough. I have to make a sincere effort to follow Christ.

This takes love, sacrifice, repentance, selflessness, charity, longsuffering etc — the things that Jesus taught and exemplified.

We have to make an effort, and of course we will fall short, but we have to repent of our sins, and keep on trying to overcome.

Now I know that some will say that “you are saying that your works save you” — I don’t believe that. My feeble efforts cannot cleanse me from sin, cannot raise me from the grave. Only Christ can save.

Best regards,

Normandy


160 posted on 07/18/2010 4:19:50 AM PDT by Normandy
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To: Normandy; aMorePerfectUnion

Norman - a simple straight up question

Will a non-temple mormon attain the highest heaven and become a god. Based upon you interpretation you gave to AMPU why or why not?


161 posted on 07/18/2010 5:01:02 AM PDT by Godzilla ( 3-7-77)
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To: Godzilla

Hi Godzilla,

In my opinion the answer to your question is yes — if you mean people who don’t receive temple ordinances in this life.

There are many Latter-day saints who for one reason or another die before receiving temple ordinances.

Also many who have lived and died without being Mormons will receive the highest possible blessings.

“All who have died without a knowledge of this Gospel, who would have received it if they had been permitted to tarry, shall be heirs of the celestial kingdom of God; also all that shall die henceforth without a knowledge of it, who would have received it with all their hearts, shall be heirs of that kingdom, for I, the Lord, will judge all men according to their works, according to the desire of their hearts” Doctrine and Covenants 137.


162 posted on 07/18/2010 5:20:50 AM PDT by Normandy
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To: Tennessee Nana
This thread is getting too kinky for this old grandmother...

It CAN'T be because of MY, ahem, questionable replies. They don't STAY here long enough to affect a slow responder like yerself who can't hit a 666 target with a rifle but must use a shotgun!

163 posted on 07/18/2010 5:41:59 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: restornu
Does this prove you have no conscience or you have trouble elelvating your thoughts!

It PROVES that SOME Mormons, who used to be a PRESBYTERIANs, have NO insight at all about their old religion!

164 posted on 07/18/2010 5:43:48 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: restornu
Well it was only a few decades ago before that policy was changed there was a lot hoopla over a baby had to be baptized for it the baby died he could not be saved...

Why did you MORMONs change your policy?

165 posted on 07/18/2010 5:44:42 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: restornu
In all fairness that was never really a doctrine of the Lord Jesus Christ nor can it be found in the scriptures but neither can the Trinty.

Just like the stolen, SECRET (hahaha) Temple Rituals® that MORMONs waste SO much time doing!

166 posted on 07/18/2010 5:46:32 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: restornu
 
BTW You are taking this out of context AMPU these folks are still under the Law of Moese.
 

John 6

28. Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?"
29. Jesus answered,
"The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

Galatians 3

1. You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified.
2. I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard?

 
You foolish MORMONs!

167 posted on 07/18/2010 5:48:15 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: restornu

You may want to call your ping list by PHONE and urge them to come to this thread...


168 posted on 07/18/2010 5:49:18 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: restornu; Utah Binger
Utah Binger you have now come to Christ?

He's closer to Him than, ahem, some former PRESBYTERIANs are!

169 posted on 07/18/2010 5:50:26 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Godzilla
Interesting, here the Greek interpolation for Yeshua Hamashiach centuries before its time had come. What a joke.

I can do better than THAT!!!


 
 

 
THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
 
SECTION 76
 
A vision given to Joseph Smith the Prophet and Sidney Rigdon, at Hiram, Ohio, February 16, 1832. HC 1: 245–252. Prefacing his record of this vision the Prophet wrote: “Upon my return from Amherst conference, I resumed the translation of the Scriptures. From sundry revelations which had been received, it was apparent that many important points touching the salvation of man had been taken from the Bible, or lost before it was compiled. It appeared self-evident from what truths were left, that if God rewarded every one according to the deeds done in the body, the term ‘Heaven,’ as intended for the Saints’ eternal home, must include more kingdoms than one. Accordingly, while translating St. John’s Gospel, myself and Elder Rigdon saw the following vision.” It was after the Prophet had translated John 5: 29 that this vision was given.
 
1–4, The Lord is God; 5–10, Mysteries of the kingdom will be revealed to all the faithful; 11–17, All shall come forth in the resurrection of the just or the unjust; 18–24, Inhabitants of many worlds are begotten sons and daughters unto God through the atonement of Jesus Christ; 25–29, An angel of God fell and became the devil; 30–49, Sons of perdition suffer eternal damnation; all others gain some degree of salvation; 50–70, The glory and reward of exalted beings in the celestial kingdom; 71–80, Those who shall inherit the terrestrial kingdom; 81–113, Status of those in the telestial, terrestrial, and celestial glories; 114–119, All the faithful may see the vision of the degrees of glory.
 
  1 aHear, O ye heavens, and give ear, O earth, and rejoice ye inhabitants thereof, for the Lord is bGod, and beside him there is cno dSavior.
  2 aGreat is his wisdom, bmarvelous are his ways, and the extent of his doings none can find out.
  3 His apurposes fail not, neither are there any who can stay his hand.
  4 From eternity to eternity he is the asame, and his years never bfail.
  5 For thus saith the Lord—I, the Lord, am amerciful and gracious unto those who bfear me, and delight to honor those who cserve me in righteousness and in truth unto the end.
  6 Great shall be their reward and eternal shall be their aglory.
  7 And to them will I areveal all bmysteries, yea, all the hidden mysteries of my kingdom from days of old, and for ages to come, will I make known unto them the good pleasure of my will concerning all things pertaining to my kingdom.
  8 Yea, even the wonders of aeternity shall they know, and things to come will I show them, even the things of many generations.
  9 And their awisdom shall be great, and their bunderstanding reach to heaven; and before them the wisdom of the wise shall cperish, and the understanding of the dprudent shall come to naught.
  10 For by my aSpirit will I benlighten them, and by my cpower will I make known unto them the dsecrets of my ewill—yea, even those things which feye has not seen, nor ear heard, nor yet entered into the heart of man.
  11 We, Joseph Smith, Jun., and Sidney Rigdon, being ain the Spirit on the sixteenth day of February, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and thirty-two—
  12 By the power of the aSpirit our beyes were opened and our understandings were enlightened, so as to see and understand the things of God—
  13 Even those things which were from the beginning before the world was, which were ordained of the Father, through his Only Begotten Son, who was in the bosom of the Father, even from the abeginning;
  14 Of whom we bear record; and the record which we bear is the fulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ, who is the Son, whom we saw and with whom we aconversed in the heavenly bvision.
  15 For while we were doing the work of atranslation, which the Lord had appointed unto us, we came to the twenty-ninth verse of the fifth chapter of John, which was given unto us as follows—
  16 Speaking of the resurrection of the dead, concerning those who shall ahear the voice of the bSon of Man:
  17 And shall come forth; athey who have done bgood, in the cresurrection of the djust; and they who have done evil, in the resurrection of the unjust.
  18 Now this caused us to marvel, for it was given unto us of the Spirit.
  19 And while we ameditated upon these things, the Lord touched the eyes of our understandings and they were opened, and the bglory of the Lord shone round about.
  20 And we beheld the aglory of the Son, on the bright hand of the cFather, and received of his fulness;
  21 And saw the holy aangels, and them who are bsanctified before his throne, worshiping God, and the Lamb, who cworship him forever and ever.
  22 And now, after the many testimonies which have been given of him, this is the atestimony, last of all, which we give of him: That he blives!
  23 For we asaw him, even on the bright hand of cGod; and we heard the voice bearing record that he is the Only dBegotten of the Father—
  24 That by ahim, and through him, and of him, the bworlds are and were created, and the cinhabitants thereof are begotten dsons and daughters unto God.
  25 And this we saw also, and bear record, that an aangel of God who was in authority in the presence of God, who brebelled against the Only Begotten cSon whom the Father dloved and who was in the bosom of the Father, was thrust down from the presence of God and the Son,
  26 And was called aPerdition, for the heavens bwept over him—he was cLucifer, a son of the morning.
  27 And we beheld, and lo, he is afallen! is fallen, even a son of the morning!
  28 And while we were yet in the Spirit, the Lord commanded us that we should write the vision; for we beheld Satan, that old aserpent, even the bdevil, who rebelled against God, and sought to take the kingdom of our cGod and his Christ—
  29 Wherefore, he maketh awar with the saints of God, and encompasseth them round about.
  30 And we saw a vision of the asufferings of those with whom he made war and overcame, for thus came the voice of the Lord unto us:
  31 Thus saith the Lord concerning all those who know my power, and have been made partakers thereof, and asuffered themselves through the power of the devil to be overcome, and to deny the truth and defy my power—
  32 They are they who are the asons of bperdition, of whom I say that it had been better for them never to have been born;
  33 For they are avessels of wrath, doomed to suffer the wrath of God, with the devil and his angels in eternity;
  34 Concerning whom I have said there is ano bforgiveness in this world nor in the world to come—
  35 Having adenied the Holy Spirit after having received it, and having denied the Only Begotten Son of the Father, having bcrucified him unto themselves and put him to an open cshame.
  36 These are they who shall go away into the alake of fire and brimstone, with the devil and his angels—
  37 And the aonly ones on whom the bsecond cdeath shall have any power;
  38 Yea, verily, the only ones who shall anot be redeemed in the due time of the Lord, after the sufferings of his wrath.
  39 For all the rest shall be abrought forth by the resurrection of the dead, through the btriumph and the glory of the Lamb, who was slain, who was in the bosom of the Father cbefore the worlds were made.
  40 And this is the agospel, the glad btidings, which the voice out of the heavens bore record unto us—
  41 That he acame into the world, even Jesus, to be bcrucified for the world, and to cbear the sins of the dworld, and to esanctify the world, and to fcleanse it from all unrighteousness;
  42 That through him all might be asaved whom the Father had put into his bpower and made by him;
  43 Who aglorifies the Father, and saves all the works of his hands, except those sons of bperdition who deny the Son after the Father has revealed him.
  44 Wherefore, he saves all aexcept them—they shall go away into beverlasting cpunishment, which is endless punishment, which is eternal punishment, to dreign with the edevil and his angels in eternity, where their fworm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched, which is their torment—
  45 And the aend thereof, neither the place thereof, nor their torment, no man knows;
  46 Neither was it revealed, neither is, neither will be revealed unto man, except to them who are made partakers thereof;
  47 Nevertheless, I, the Lord, show it by avision unto many, but straightway shut it up again;
  48 Wherefore, the end, the width, the height, the adepth, and the misery thereof, they understand not, neither any man except those who are bordained unto this ccondemnation.
  49 And we heard the voice, saying: aWrite the vision, for lo, this is the end of the vision of the sufferings of the ungodly.
  50 And again we bear record—for we asaw and heard, and this is the btestimony of the cgospel of Christ concerning them who shall come forth in the resurrection of the djust
  51 They are they who received the atestimony of Jesus, and bbelieved on his name and were cbaptized after the dmanner of his burial, being eburied in the water in his name, and this according to the commandment which he has given—
  52 That by akeeping the commandments they might be bwashed and ccleansed from all their sins, and receive the Holy Spirit by the laying on of the dhands of him who is eordained and sealed unto this power;
  53 And who aovercome by faith, and are bsealed by the Holy Spirit of cpromise, which the Father dsheds forth upon all those who are just and true.
  54 They are they who are the achurch of the bFirstborn.
  55 They are they into whose hands the Father has given aall things—
  56 They are they who are apriests and bkings, who have received of his fulness, and of his glory;
  57 And are apriests of the Most High, after the order of Melchizedek, which was after the order of bEnoch, which was after the corder of the Only Begotten Son.
  58 Wherefore, as it is written, they are agods, even the bsons of cGod
  59 Wherefore, aall things are theirs, whether life or death, or things present, or things to come, all are theirs and they are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s.
  60 And they shall aovercome all things.
  61 Wherefore, let no man aglory in man, but rather let him bglory in God, who shall csubdue all enemies under his feet.
  62 These shall adwell in the bpresence of God and his Christ forever and ever.
  63 These are they whom he shall bring with him, when he shall acome in the bclouds of heaven to creign on the earth over his people.
  64 These are they who shall have part in the afirst resurrection.
  65 These are they who shall come forth in the resurrection of the ajust.
  66 These are they who are come unto aMount bZion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly place, the holiest of all.
  67 These are they who have come to an innumerable company of aangels, to the general assembly and church of bEnoch, and of the cFirstborn.
  68 These are they whose names are awritten in heaven, where God and Christ are the bjudge of all.
  69 These are they who are ajust men made bperfect through Jesus the mediator of the new ccovenant, who wrought out this perfect datonement through the shedding of his own eblood.
  70 These are they whose bodies are acelestial, whose bglory is that of the csun, even the glory of God, the dhighest of all, whose glory the sun of the firmament is written of as being typical.
  71 And again, we saw the aterrestrial world, and behold and lo, these are they who are of the terrestrial, whose glory differs from that of the church of the bFirstborn who have received the fulness of the Father, even as that of the cmoon differs from the sun in the firmament.
  72 Behold, these are they who died awithout blaw;
  73 And also they who are the aspirits of men kept in bprison, whom the Son visited, and cpreached the dgospel unto them, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh;
  74 Who areceived not the btestimony of Jesus in the flesh, but afterwards received it.
  75 These are they who are ahonorable men of the earth, who were bblinded by the craftiness of men.
  76 These are they who receive of his glory, but not of his fulness.
  77 These are they who receive of the apresence of the Son, but not of the fulness of the Father.
  78 Wherefore, they are abodies terrestrial, and not bodies celestial, and differ in glory as the moon differs from the sun.
  79 These are they who are not avaliant in the btestimony of Jesus; wherefore, they obtain not the crown over the kingdom of our God.
  80 And now this is the end of the avision which we saw of the terrestrial, that the Lord commanded us to bwrite while we were yet in the Spirit.
  81 And again, we asaw the glory of the btelestial, which glory is that of the lesser, even as the cglory of the stars differs from that of the glory of the moon in the firmament.
  82 These are they who received not the gospel of Christ, neither the atestimony of Jesus.
  83 These are they who adeny not the Holy Spirit.
  84 These are they who are thrust down to ahell.
  85 These are they who shall not be redeemed from the adevil until the blast resurrection, until the Lord, even Christ the cLamb, shall have finished his work.
  86 These are they who receive not of his fulness in the eternal world, but of the Holy Spirit through the ministration of the terrestrial;
  87 And the terrestrial through the aministration of the celestial.
  88 And also the telestial receive it of the administering of angels who are appointed to minister for them, or who are appointed to be aministering spirits for them; for they shall be bheirs of salvation.
  89 And thus we saw, in the heavenly vision, the glory of the atelestial, which surpasses all understanding;
  90 And no man knows it except him to whom God has revealed it.
  91 And thus we saw the glory of the aterrestrial which excels in all things the glory of the telestial, even in glory, and in power, and in might, and in dominion.
  92 And thus we saw the aglory of the celestial, which bexcels in all things—where God, even the Father, reigns upon his cthrone forever and ever;
  93 Before whose throne all things bow in humble areverence, and give him glory forever and ever.
  94 They who dwell in his apresence are the church of the bFirstborn; and they see as they are seen, and cknow as they are known, having received of his fulness and of his dgrace;
  95 And he makes them aequal in power, and in might, and in dominion.
  96 And the glory of the celestial is one, even as the glory of the asun is one.
  97 And the glory of the terrestrial is one, even as the glory of the moon is one.
  98 And the glory of the telestial is one, even as the glory of the stars is one; for as one star differs from another star in glory, even so differs one from another in glory in the telestial world;
  99 For these are they who are of aPaul, and of Apollos, and of Cephas.
  100 These are they who say they are some of one and some of another—some of Christ and some of John, and some of Moses, and some of Elias, and some of aEsaias, and some of Isaiah, and some of Enoch;
  101 But areceived not the gospel, neither the testimony of Jesus, neither the prophets, neither the beverlasting covenant.
  102 Last of all, these all are they who will not be agathered with the saints, to be bcaught up unto the cchurch of the Firstborn, and received into the cloud.
  103 These are athey who are bliars, and csorcerers, and dadulterers, and ewhoremongers, and whosoever loves and makes a lie.
  104 These are they who suffer the awrath of God on earth.
  105 These are they who suffer the avengeance of eternal fire.
  106 These are they who are cast down to ahell and bsuffer the wrath of cAlmighty God, until the dfulness of times, when Christ shall have esubdued all enemies under his ffeet, and shall have gperfected his work;
  107 When he shall adeliver up the bkingdom, and present it unto the Father, spotless, saying: I have covercome and have dtrodden the ewine-press falone, even the wine-press of the fierceness of the wrath of Almighty God.
  108 Then shall he be acrowned with the crown of his glory, to sit on the bthrone of his power to reign forever and ever.
  109 But behold, and lo, we saw the glory and the inhabitants of the telestial world, that they were as ainnumerable as the stars in the firmament of heaven, or as the sand upon the seashore;
  110 And heard the voice of the Lord saying: These all shall bow the knee, and every tongue shall aconfess to him who sits upon the throne forever and ever;
  111 For they shall be judged according to their aworks, and every man shall receive according to his own bworks, his own cdominion, in the dmansions which are prepared;
  112 And they shall be aservants of the Most High; but bwhere God and Christ cdwell they dcannot come, eworlds without end.
  113 This is the end of the vision which we saw, which we were commanded to write while we were yet in the Spirit.
  114 But agreat and marvelous are the works of the Lord, and the bmysteries of his kingdom which he showed unto us, which surpass all understanding in glory, and in might, and in dominion;
  115 Which he commanded us we should not write while we were yet in the Spirit, and are not alawful for man to utter;
  116 Neither is man acapable to make them known, for they are only to be bseen and cunderstood by the power of the Holy Spirit, which God bestows on those who dlove him, and purify themselves before him;
  117 To whom he grants this privilege of aseeing and knowing for themselves;
  118 That through the power and manifestation of the Spirit, while in the flesh, they may be able to abear his bpresence in the world of glory.
  119 And to God and the Lamb be aglory, and honor, and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

 
 
 
Just WHEN was the BIBLE separted into CHAPTER AND VERSE??

170 posted on 07/18/2010 6:08:34 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

You copy and paste & copy and paste but you sitll don’t have the spirit of the Lord to discern them which is something like the 10 virgins and oil in their lamps...

5 virgins were able to maintain spiritual oil in their lamps and 5 were running low and this kind of oil one can not share for it comes from the Lord and if one did not receive enough oil because of their deportment they will not be able to go to the wedding

Many here have a tendency to be judgmental and abusive which is contrary to the heart of a Chirstian.

John 5: 39
39 ¶ Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Acts 17: 11
11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

But again if one does not have the spirit of discernment it is all done in vain!

The condition of the mind and heart determins if there is a presents of the Holy Ghost!


171 posted on 07/18/2010 6:35:23 AM PDT by restornu
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To: Normandy

“it is clear that LDS believe that something is required of them to receive the highest reward that God has to offer.”

Then it is not a gift, you have worked for your reward.

“I don’t believe that just believing in Jesus in my mind or confessing with my lips is enough. I have to make a sincere effort to follow Christ.”

No one I know argues that “just believing” or “confessing” is the same as saving faith. Mormons however, go beyond faith into works and guarantee they cannot be saved unless they leave the works based system.

I would add gently that it has nothing to do with what you believe. It has everything to do with what HE has said and done.

“This takes love, sacrifice, repentance, selflessness, charity, longsuffering etc — the things that Jesus taught and exemplified.”

No one complains [much] that mormons done live a “good life”. In fact, the basis of salvation is not your works, Norman, but HIS WORK. You neither add to it nor earn it.

“We have to make an effort, and of course we will fall short, but we have to repent of our sins, and keep on trying to overcome.”

Of course you do, you have a mormonic false gospel that substitutes itself for the real Gospel of Grace.

Bottom line: mormons believe they must work to get into heaven and that Christ’s gift is insufficient. They must prove themselves worthy to recieve a gift!

There are really only a few ways to falsify God’s message. Satan recycles them like a fashion show:

Distort the nature of God - mormons do this in spades! God the Father used to be a man - Adam - and sinned. Jesus was a created spirit being. The Holy Spirit was naughty (sinned) and is now on probation with no body. Every one of those is idolatry.

Distort the Gospel of Grace - The Apostle Paul warned all Christians about messages like yours, Norman. Mormonism has turned the Gospel of Grace into a false gospel of human works.

Distort the Bible - again, mormonism really excels at this! Cast doubt on what God has said.

This is the same exact plan Satan has used since the Garden of Eden and now he has every mormon to spread his message.

Only Him. Only grace. Only one God.

ampu


172 posted on 07/18/2010 6:39:54 AM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

I would add gently that it has nothing to do with what you believe. It has everything to do with what HE has said and done.


Well certainly Jesus has done everything to make Salvation possible for all mankind.

However I believe for Christ’s sacrifice to have any benefit to me, I must respond to it through faith in Him and by following His teachings.


173 posted on 07/18/2010 7:02:50 AM PDT by Normandy
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To: restornu; Elsie

My heart is glad for you I fine your spirit sharing and loving.

_______________________________________________________

My heart got four new pipes and a complete re plumbing in January 09. I’m a new man.

That greater being needed me to do more work here. Today I’ll be working on the art fence on the north end of the meadow and later we need to fix the front gate. Our hired hand just arrived at 7:00

The coffee tasted especially good today during our special sunrise service that we conduct daily here to enjoy the beauty of the mountains.

“How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace”

I soloed that song in the Ogden Tabernacle for Stake Conference back in 1966. If you come here I promise to sing for you. We have a baby grand in the main gallery here. Music is the mainstay of life and spirit.

Dogma and scripture quoting bores me. Sanctimonious men and earthly religious devices also bore me. Free yourself and soar away from the controllers of thought. Be an individual, be free. The guilt trip will kill you if you don’t.


174 posted on 07/18/2010 7:22:21 AM PDT by Utah Binger (Mount Carmel Utah, where Mr. Milquetoast lives with his "Persecution Complex")
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175


175 posted on 07/18/2010 7:37:33 AM PDT by svcw (True freedom cannot be granted by any man or government, only by Christ.)
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To: Normandy

good a follow up question

you said if the temple ordinances were not received in ‘this life’

Are you saying that they still need to be performed via proxy or by some other means in the afterlife.


176 posted on 07/18/2010 8:20:03 AM PDT by Godzilla ( 3-7-77)
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To: Elsie
"Just WHEN was the BIBLE separated into CHAPTER AND VERSE??"

Inquiring minds would like to know.

That's an excellent question that deserved a little shouting.

177 posted on 07/18/2010 8:36:10 AM PDT by SZonian (We began as a REPUBLIC, a nation of laws. We became a DEMOCRACY, majority rules. Next step is?)
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To: Utah Binger

Dogma and scripture quoting bores me. Sanctimonious men and earthly religious devices also bore me. Free yourself and soar away from the controllers of thought. Be an individual, be free. The guilt trip will kill you if you don’t.

***

When I was baptized my sins were washed the away and when I received sacrament often is to continuely wash of the dirt of the world.

As an example it is a well known fact in order to be a good jazz musician one must study the classical foundation so one is able to draw upon that which they have aquired in their studies.

It is the same for spiritual freedom one should be grounded in a firm foundation so when that day comes the words are given to you to draw upon.


178 posted on 07/18/2010 8:45:21 AM PDT by restornu
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To: restornu
Speaking of Jazz

Last Thanksgiving she was invited to Monday Night at Birdland. We went with her. They have invited me to come again next year and back her up with vocal sounds of the bass vile a la Lambert, Hendricks and Ross I hope I can make it.

179 posted on 07/18/2010 9:12:06 AM PDT by Utah Binger (Mount Carmel Utah, where Mr. Milquetoast lives with his "Persecution Complex")
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To: restornu; aMorePerfectUnion
It is very clear now you do not want discussiion or facts just to spread your anti LDS propaganda!

52,000 mormon missionaries plus online missionaries going out every day to spread heretical mormon propaganda. Do you believe that's perfectly acceptable in comparison?

Antis are not interested in facts they just want to poison the water for every one else...

The Inmans produce facts from the Bible while the mormons produce fiction from the BOM. One who drinks the poison of the BOM puts his/her soul in danger when he/she finds that Joseph Smith is NOT waiting at the gate to give him/her entrance, but instead only the Keeper of the Book of Life who will say, "Your name is not therein inscribed." Beware of the BOM poison.

No one should ever fear the truth nor the Witness by the Power of the Holy Ghost!

Christians have no need to fear the Bible truth nor the power of the Holy Spirit, for the Triune God IS the power.

The most rewarding day in anyones life when that happens!

When WHAT happens? When a demonic spirit tells demonic tales and innocents believe it is from God? Beware the "reward" from the Luciferian spirit, for it takes on many guises.

180 posted on 07/18/2010 10:00:32 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (If voters follow the democrat method of 2004 Obama will be named the worst president in history.)
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To: Godzilla; Normandy
Normandy posted this: "In my opinion the answer to your question is yes — if you mean people who don’t receive temple ordinances in this life.

There are many Latter-day saints who for one reason or another die before receiving temple ordinances.

Also many who have lived and died without being Mormons will receive the highest possible blessings.

“All who have died without a knowledge of this Gospel, who would have received it if they had been permitted to tarry, shall be heirs of the celestial kingdom of God; also all that shall die henceforth without a knowledge of it, who would have received it with all their hearts, shall be heirs of that kingdom, for I, the Lord, will judge all men according to their works, according to the desire of their hearts” Doctrine and Covenants 137."

Godzilla's reply: "you said if the temple ordinances were not received in ‘this life’

Are you saying that they still need to be performed via proxy or by some other means in the afterlife."

Normandy, I question THIS statement by you..."There are many Latter-day saints who for one reason or another die before receiving temple ordinances, when your quote from D&C 137 states, "All who have died without a knowledge of this Gospel who would have received it if they had been permitted to tarry, shall be heirs of the celestial kingdom of God."

I would like an explanation of the "reasons LDS die without knowledge of this Gospel" Are these LDS then ignorant of "this Gospel"? How did they become LDS in this ignorance? Did they have to answer the questions to obtain a temple recommend and fail the test? Were all these "many" too young to take out their "endowments" through mission prep or marriage? Does that mean a seventeen-year-old who dies before temple ordinances gets a pass to having proxy work done if he dies? Don't all seventeen-year-old mormons, including converts, have to "hear this Gospel" to even become members by this age?

Here is an answer to Godzilla's question.

you said if the temple ordinances were not received in ‘this life’

Are you saying that they still need to be performed via proxy or by some other means in the afterlife.

1. Elders’ Journal of The Church of the Latter Day Saints, 1 (July 1838): 43; emphasis added.

2. The Prophet’s initial understanding of vicarious work for the dead may have come to him as a result of the vision he received in January 1836 concerning his older brother Alvin, who had died in 1823, prior to the restoration of the gospel (D&C 137). In the vision, Joseph stated that he saw Alvin in the celestial kingdom, but wondered how he could have received such an inheritance without having received baptism under the proper authority (v. 6). It was then revealed to him that all those who died prior to the gospel being on the earth and all who would die henceforth without a knowledge of the gospel would be heirs of the celestial kingdom (vv. 7–8). With this revelation as a backdrop, the Prophet probably came to understand that while the gospel could be received by the dead following their departure from this life, the ordinance work must be performed for them by someone living in mortality.

LDS Source

181 posted on 07/18/2010 11:15:00 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (If voters follow the democrat method of 2004 Obama will be named the worst president in history.)
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To: restornu
well known fact in order to be a good jazz musician one must study the classical foundation

No way, some of the greatest jazz players in the world couldn't read a note. Good jazz comes from the soul.

182 posted on 07/18/2010 11:37:23 AM PDT by svcw (True freedom cannot be granted by any man or government, only by Christ.)
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To: Normandy

I don’t believe that just believing in Jesus in my mind or confessing with my lips is enough
___________________________________________

And you are correct its not enough...

You have to believe in your heart...

and then it is enough...

But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. Romans 10:8-10


183 posted on 07/18/2010 11:40:40 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: greyfoxx39

“Beware of the BOM poison.”

You mean this:

The Articles of Faith
of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.

We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.

We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.

We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.

We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.

We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.

We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.

We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.

We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.

We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.

We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

Joseph Smith


184 posted on 07/18/2010 11:48:54 AM PDT by Saundra Duffy (For victory & freedom!!!)
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To: Godzilla
 

I don't know that we teach it

In case you don't recognize the title of this post, it is part of President Hinckley's answer to a reporter's question that appeared in the August 4 1997 issue of Time magazine. The reporter referenced the King Follett discourse. The answer supplied and the manner in which it was delivered caused the reporter to draw some false conclusions about a very important doctrine.

In that discourse, the prophet Joseph Smith said, "If the veil were rent today, and the great God who holds this world in its orbit, and who upholds all worlds and all things by His power, was to make himself visible—I say, if you were to see him today, you would see him like a man in form—like yourselves in all the person, image, and very form as a man." (See also D&C 130:22)

The article referred to Lorenzo Snow's couplet, "As man is now, God once was; as God now is, man may become." The reporter said, "God the Father was once a man as we are. This is something that Christian writers are always addressing." President Hinckley was then asked, "Is this the teaching of the church today, that God the Father was once a man like we are?"

The bothersome reply

"I don't know that we teach it. I don't know that we emphasize it. I haven't heard it discussed for a long time in public discourse. I don't know. I don't know all the circumstances under which that statement was made. I understand the philosophical background behind it, but I don't know a lot about it, and I don't think others know a lot about it."

The reporter wrote, "On whether his church still holds that God the Father was once a man, he sounded uncertain." That's an unfortunate conclusion. Of course I wasn't at the interview and neither were you but I'll bet the reporter mistook careful thoughtfulness for uncertainty. This doctrine is indeed deep territory and not something that is taught outside the LDS Church.



An earlier and similar interview

The San Francisco Chronicle, published an interview with President Hinckley in April of 1997. The reporter asked, "There are some significant differences in your beliefs. For instance, don't Mormon's believe that God was once a man?" President Hinckley responded, "I wouldn't say that. There is a little couplet coined, 'As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become.'"

He then said, "Now that's more of a couplet than anything else. That gets into some pretty deep theology that we don't know very much about." The reporter pounced on this. "So you're saying that the church is still struggling to understand this? " President Hinckley responded, "Well, as God is, man may become. We believe in eternal progression. Very strongly."

President Hinckley's response

President Hinckley said in October 1997 General Conference: "I personally have been much quoted, and in a few instances misquoted and misunderstood. I think that's to be expected. None of you need worry because you read something that was incompletely reported. You need not worry that I do not understand some matters of doctrine.

"I think I understand them thoroughly, and it is unfortunate that the reporting may not make this clear. I hope you will never look to the public press as the authority on the doctrines of the Church." And there lies the whole point of my post today. Some members did indeed become a little concerned by the exchanges they read in the press reports of those interviews.

Does the Church still teach this?

I know this is old news but it still bothers some people when they discover the anti-Mormon attacks floating around on the Internet. President Hinckley was right. We really don't know much about how our Heavenly Father became a God. The idea that he passed through a mortal probationary state like you and me is certainly not documented in any scripture of which I know.

However, it is still taught. In the Gospel Principles manual in the chapter on exaltation we read, "Joseph Smith taught: "It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the character of God. . . . He was once a man like us; . . . God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 345-46)."

Summary and conclusion

I don't know why this should bother anyone. The doctrine is true. Joseph Smith knew a whole lot more about this than I do. President Hinckley also knew a whole lot more about this doctrine than he was willing to share with reporters who did not have the background to understand it. It must have been difficult for President Hinckley to hold back and not teach it in those interviews.

It didn't bother me when I read the interviews back in 1997 and it doesn't bother me today. However, I know it does bother some people. We each have trials of our faith. I have never depended on an intellectual understanding of the gospel in order to accept it and live it. There are some things that just can't be fully comprehended without the temple, prayer and faith.

 



 There are some things that just can't be fully comprehended without the temple, prayer and faith. alrighty then!!!

 

 

 


185 posted on 07/18/2010 12:03:04 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: restornu
I know who I am and what is expected of me and it has nothing to do with your STRAWMAN SPIN VERSION!

"MOTHER!!!

Do NOT come here!!

I have finally learned that MORMONism is UNTRUE!!!"

--Joseph Smith

186 posted on 07/18/2010 12:05:03 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: restornu
My heart is glad for you I fine your spirit sharing and loving.

Bozo!

He has LEFT the MORMON religious Organization and you KNOW what your leaders have said about folks like THAT!!!

187 posted on 07/18/2010 12:09:12 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: restornu
My heart is glad for you I fine your spirit sharing and loving.

Bozo!

He has LEFT the MORMON religious Organization and you KNOW what your leaders have said about folks like THAT!!!

188 posted on 07/18/2010 12:09:20 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Saundra Duffy
I mean doctrines like THIS!

"Now, in order to have things in perspective, let me identify the three greatest heresies in all Christendom. They do not prevail among us, fortunately, but they are part of the gross and universal darkness that covers the earth and blots out from the minds of men those truths upon which salvation rests.

The greatest truth known to man is that there is a God in heaven who is infinite and eternal; that he is the creator, upholder, and preserver of all things; that he created us and the sidereal heavens and ordained and established a plan of salvation whereby we might advance and progress and become like him. The truth pertaining to him is that he is our Father in heaven, that he has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's, that he is a literal person, and that if we believe and obey his laws we can gain the exaltation that he possesses. Now that is the greatest truth and the most glorious concept known to the human mind, and the reverse of it is the greatest heresy in all Christendom.

The Christian heresy, where God is concerned, is that Deity is a spirit essence that fills the immensity of space; that he is three beings in one; that he is uncreated, incorporeal, and incomprehensible; that he is without body, parts, or passions; that he is a spirit nothingness that is everywhere and nowhere in particular present. These are concepts written in the creeds had in the churches of the world.

The second greatest truth in all eternity pertains to the divine sonship of the Lord, Jesus Christ. It includes the eternal verity that he was foreordained in the councils of eternity to come to earth and be the redeemer of men, to come and ransom men from the temporal and spiritual death brought upon them by the fall of Adam. This second greatest truth is that Christ worked out the infinite and eternal atoning sacrifice because of which all men are raised in immortality and those who believe and obey are raised also unto eternal life.

Now the second greatest heresy in all Christendom is designed to destroy the glories and wonders of the infinite and eternal atonement. It is that men are saved by some kind of lip service, by the grace of God, without work and without effort on their part.

The third greatest truth known to mankind is that the Holy Spirit of God is a revelator and a sanctifier, that he is a personage of spirit, that his assigned ministry and work in the eternal Godhead is to bear record of the Father and of the Son, to reveal them and their truths to men. His work is to cleanse and perfect human souls, to burn dross and evil out of human souls as though by fire. We call that the baptism of fire.

Now the opposite of that is the third greatest heresy in all Christendom. It is that revelation has ceased, that God's mouth is closed, that the Holy Ghost no longer inspires men, that the gifts of the Spirit were done away with after the death of the ancient apostles, and that we no longer need to follow the course they charted. "

I simply name these things; I think you will want to weigh and evaluate what is involved. I think you will want to ponder and wonder and search the scriptures. After Jesus had been teaching the Nephites as a resurrected person, giving them as much truth as in his wisdom he felt they could absorb at one time, he counseled them to go to their homes, and to ponder in their hearts the things he had said, and to pray to the Father in his name to find out if they were true, and then to come again on the morrow and he would teach them more.

The Seven Deadly Heresies BRUCE R. MCCONKIE

189 posted on 07/18/2010 12:09:48 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (If voters follow the democrat method of 2004 Obama will be named the worst president in history.)
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To: restornu
My heart is glad for you I fine your spirit sharing and loving.
 
I guess one has to actually HAVE a TR before one worries about LOSING it!
 



Temple Recommend questions
 
1 Do you have faith in and a testimony of God the Eternal Father, His Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost?

2 Do you have a testimony of the Atonement of Christ and of His role as Savior and Redeemer?

3 Do you have a testimony of the restoration of the gospel in these the latter days?

4 Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?

5 Do you live the law of chastity?

6 Is there anything in your conduct relating to members of your family that is not in harmony with the teachings of the Church?

7 Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

8 Do you strive to keep the covenants you have made, to attend your sacrament and other meetings, and to keep your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?

9 Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?

10 Are you a full-tithe payer?

11 Do your keep the Word of Wisdom?

12 Do you have financial or other obligations to a former spouse or children? If yes, are you current in meeting those obligations?

13 If you have previously received your temple endowment:

      Do you keep the covenants that you made in the temple?
      Do you wear the garment both night and day as instructed in the endowment and in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple?

14 Have there been any sins or misdeeds in your life that should have been resolved with priesthood authorities but have not been?

15 Do you consider yourself worthy to enter the Lord's house and participate in temple ordinances?

190 posted on 07/18/2010 12:13:03 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Normandy
If I may make a comment here, I think it is clear that LDS believe that something is required of them to receive the highest reward that God has to offer.

And just what, if you may form an opinion here; would that be?

191 posted on 07/18/2010 12:14:22 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Normandy
My feeble efforts cannot cleanse me from sin, cannot raise me from the grave.

You are SUCH a tease!!! ;^)

Come on out and TELL us what LDS members have to DO to get the HIGHEST 'reward' that GOD has in store for MORMONs!

192 posted on 07/18/2010 12:16:18 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Normandy
Will a non-temple mormon attain the highest heaven and become a god.

In my opinion the answer to your question is yes — if you mean people who don’t receive temple ordinances in this life.

Well; NOW we are getting somewhere.


But you've said it's your OPINION.

What does the LDS church TEACH on this subject?

193 posted on 07/18/2010 12:18:14 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Normandy
“All who have died without a knowledge of this Gospel, who would have received it if they had been permitted to tarry, shall be heirs of the celestial kingdom of God; also all that shall die henceforth without a knowledge of it, who would have received it with all their hearts, shall be heirs of that kingdom, for I, the Lord, will judge all men according to their works, according to the desire of their hearts”

Doctrine and Covenants 137.


(In context)


 
 

THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
SECTION 137
 
A vision given to Joseph Smith the Prophet, in the temple at Kirtland, Ohio, January 21, 1836. HC 2: 380–381. The occasion was the administration of the ordinances of the endowment as far as they had then been revealed.
 
1–6, The Prophet sees his brother Alvin in the celestial kingdom; 7–9, The doctrine of salvation for the dead is revealed; 10, All children are saved in the celestial kingdom.
 
  1 The aheavens were bopened upon us, and I beheld the ccelestial kingdom of God, and the glory thereof, whether in the dbody or out I cannot tell.
  2 I saw the transcendent abeauty of the bgate through which the heirs of that kingdom will enter, which was clike unto dcircling flames of fire;
  3 Also the ablazing bthrone of God, whereon was seated the cFather and the dSon.
  4 I saw the beautiful streets of that kingdom, which had the appearance of being paved with agold.
  5 I saw Father aAdam and bAbraham; and my cfather and my mother; my brother dAlvin, that has long since eslept;
  6 And amarveled how it was that he had obtained an binheritance in that kingdom, seeing that he had departed this life before the Lord had set his hand to cgather Israel the second time, and had not been dbaptized for the remission of sins.
  7 Thus came the avoice of the Lord unto me, saying: All who have died bwithout a knowledge of this gospel, who would have received it if they had been permitted to tarry, shall be cheirs of the celestial kingdom of God;
  8 Also all that shall die henceforth without a knowledge of it, who awould have received it with all their hearts, shall be heirs of that kingdom;
  9 For I, the Lord, will ajudge all men according to their bworks, according to the cdesire of their hearts.
  10 And I also beheld that all achildren who die before they arrive at the byears of accountability are csaved in the celestial kingdom of heaven.
 

194 posted on 07/18/2010 12:25:52 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: restornu; Religion Moderator
... you sitll don’t have the spirit of the Lord to discern them...

You still are MINDREADING!

195 posted on 07/18/2010 12:28:00 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Normandy
However I believe for Christ’s sacrifice to have any benefit to me, I must respond to it through faith in Him and by following His teachings.


 
 

John 6

28. Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?"
29. Jesus answered,
"The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

29a. "AND by following my teachings!"

196 posted on 07/18/2010 12:30:06 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: svcw

of course it comes from the soul but you will hear many of the great ones say it was the rudiment of the classical foundation that gave them a greater spring board.

Geewiz you seem to want to contend just to contend!

Yikes you must contradict everyone around you!


197 posted on 07/18/2010 12:30:12 PM PDT by restornu
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To: restornu

“It is the same for spiritual freedom one should be grounded in a firm foundation so when that day comes the words are given to you to draw upon.”

If that is true, why did you choose a foundation that is:

1. Anti-Bible
2. Anti-Christ
3. Anti-Gospel
4. Anti-God

Your post makes no sense, Restornu.

Try again, please.

ampu


198 posted on 07/18/2010 12:40:43 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: Saundra Duffy

“Beware of the BOM poison.”

“You mean this:

“The Articles of Faith

.......................................

no. We mean everything the mormons do not tell you until
it is too late. Like these...

Mormon Missionary Deception Method:

1. Convince you of their sincerity
2. Trick you into expressing faith first in the Book of Mormon by praying and asking for a sign (this takes you off the objective ground of Biblical truth and puts you into subjective ground of feelings)
3. Convince you that the Bible has errors in its translation
4. Trick you into expressing faith in the prophet Joseph Smith
5. Trick you into expressing faith in the Restoration of the “Gospel” (see Galatians Chapter one)
6. Get you all the way into the baptismal font...

..........................................................

7. ONLY THEN... you will learn the true DEVIANT doctrines of
Mormonism. At this point, it is too late! You only have
feelings as a basis of truth! You will believe anything.

..........................................................

Such as the following “truths” taught in mormonism ...

... God used to be a regular Joe, but became God.
... The Jesus of mormonism was a created spirit being who became one of the three mormon earth gods
... Speaking of gods, there are trillions of gods out there!
... Speaking of gods, you can be a God with your own planet!
... It will take work, lots of works to attain the god-level
... Speaking of levels, heaven has three levels.
... Did we mention we believe in a Mother God too?
... SHE is eternally pregnant
... SHE pops out spirit children who will some day get a human body on earth
... SHE and the father god have sex
... All the trillions of gods in the mormon pantheon get together regularly over spring break in Kolob Beach to talk
... Did we mention one of the works you have to do is give 10%?
... Did we mention your bishop will audit you?
... Did we mention you will have to complete Masonic Temple rituals that involve strangers touching your private parts?
... Did we mention you will have magic underwear you must always wear?
... Did we mention we believe in eternally polygamy?
... Did we mention that in eternity, all single females will be assigned to a male god?

... and on and on...

Did we mention that swallowing all this may take swallowing
lots of prescription drugs (Utah has the highest usage of
prescription tranquilizers).

Once in, you have to accept it ALL to move up the chain
towards Godhood.

ampu


199 posted on 07/18/2010 12:43:08 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: Elsie; Religion Moderator

Is it mindreading when our rancor tells on us for the spirit of the Lord can not dwell where there is contention so is it really mindreading?

When we are in the state of GRACE than one is not being unkind or mean spirited, spiteful vindictive, set traps for your fellowman to fall into etc


200 posted on 07/18/2010 12:44:06 PM PDT by restornu
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