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Holy Father Says Old Mass Privately Says Bishop Fellay
The Eponymous Flower ^ | 07/16/2010 | Tancred

Posted on 07/16/2010 11:46:01 AM PDT by 0beron

 *Bishop Fellay says the " Holy Father celebrates the old Mass privately" and that an italian Bishop has said he will leave the Church if he does. 

He said this in a speech at the 2010 priestly ordinations.*(Kreuz.net) Pope Benedict XVI. And his secretary George Gaenswein celebrate the old Mass. This is according to the General Superior of the Society of Pius X, Bishop Bernard Fellay, in a speech in the 8th of July in the Brazilian city of Bahia.You can listen to the speech on the page '4shared.com' under user 'fbmvm'.

(Excerpt) Read more at eponymousflower.blogspot.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; General Discusssion
KEYWORDS: benedictxvi; liturgy; tradition

1 posted on 07/16/2010 11:46:03 AM PDT by 0beron
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To: 0beron

Thank God for SSPX!


2 posted on 07/16/2010 11:49:17 AM PDT by IbJensen ((Ps 109.8): "Let his days be few; and let another take his position.")
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To: 0beron
and that an italian Bishop has said he will leave the Church if he does.

Does this mean an Italian bishop says that the Pope will leave the Church if he says the traditional Mass?

3 posted on 07/16/2010 11:51:53 AM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: nickcarraway

The translation is pretty bad. It would be more clear if it were in Engrish.


4 posted on 07/16/2010 11:55:51 AM PDT by GOP_Party_Animal
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To: nickcarraway
The original article was in German, and the translation is not completely accurate. The German actually says the Italian bishop will leave if the Holy Father celebrates the old mass publicly
5 posted on 07/16/2010 12:24:34 PM PDT by kklein
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To: 0beron

We fixed the error in the first paragraph sorry about the confusion. Here?d the new link.

If anyone wants to watch the speech, you have to sign up for the service. Will keep you updated.

http://eponymousflower.blogspot.com/2010/07/pope-says-mass-privately-says-bishop.html


6 posted on 07/16/2010 1:03:27 PM PDT by 0beron
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To: kklein

Okay, that makes sense. But part of me was interested in certain parties arguing Benedict XVI would no longer be the pope if he publicly celebrated the traditional Mass. I’m not sure there aren’t more who believe that, but just don’t say it.


7 posted on 07/16/2010 1:03:45 PM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: 0beron

I don’t know quite what to make of this story. Fellay undoubtedly has friends/supporters/sources inside the Vatican, so there may be some kernel of truth here. Nonetheless, I find it very hard to believe that the pope decides how to celebrate (or not celebrate) mass based on the resignation threats of some unnamed Italian bishop.


8 posted on 07/16/2010 1:12:21 PM PDT by irishjuggler
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To: IbJensen

God ought not to be blamed for the militant schism that is and always has been SSPX. JP II had them pegged in Ecclesia Dei. I attend only Tridentine Masses nowadays courtesy of the Institute of Christ the King, JP II, B XVI and, in spite of, never because of SSPX. Let SSPX fade into deserved oblivion.


9 posted on 07/16/2010 1:38:01 PM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline, Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club: Burn 'em Bright!!!)
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To: 0beron
My translation:

Papst feiert privat die Alte Messe“

Pope Privately Celebrates Old Mass

Ein italienischer Bischof will von der Kirche abfallen, wenn der Papst öffentlich im Alten Ritus zelebriert – berichtete Bischof Bernard Fellay in einem Vortrag.

One Italian bishop will abandon the Church if the Pope publicly celebrates in the old rite, reported Bishop Fellay in a speech.

Papst Benedikt XVI. und sein Sekretär, Prälat Georg Gänswein, zelebrieren privat die Alte Messe.

Pope Benedict XVI and his secretary, prelate George Gaenswein, celebrate the old mass privately.

Das erklärte der Generalobere der Priesterbruderschaft Sankt Pius X., Bischof Bernard Fellay, in einem Vortrag am 8. Juli in der brasilianischen Stadt Bahia.

The Superior General of the priestly fraternity of St. Pius X explained this in a speech on July 8 in the Brazilian city of Bahia.

Ein Audiomitschnitt des Vortrags wurde von dem User ‘fbmvm’ auf der Seite ‘4shared.com’ hochgeladen.

A soundbite of the speech was posted on the website "4shared.com" by a user named "fbmvm."

Diese Zelebrationen würden wegen des innerkirchlichen Widerstands gegen die Alte Messe nicht öffentlich gemacht.

Due to the resistance within the Church to the old Mass, this celebration wouldn't be done publicly.

Mons. Fellay erwähnte in seinem Vortrag auch ein Beispiel des Kampfes gegen den Römischen Ritus.

Monsignor Fellay mentioned this in his speech as an example of the struggle against the Roman Rite.

Bei einer Priestertagung in Italien berichtete ein Geistlicher, daß sein Bischof gedroht habe, die Kirche zu verlassen, falls der Papst öffentlich im Alten Ritus zelebriere.

At a pastoral conference in Italy a clergyman reported that his bishop had threatened to leave the Church in the event that the Pope celebrates the old rite publicly.

Mons. Fellay: „Die Bischöfe führen einen Krieg gegen die Alte Messe.“

Monsignor Fellay: "The bishops lead the fight against the old Mass."

Gleichzeitig sieht er eine ganze Reihe guter Bischöfe und Priester.

At the same time, he sees a whole group of good bishops and priests.

Wenigstens das Herz am rechten Fleck

At least the heart is in the right place

In dem Vortrag sagte Bischof Fellay über Benedikt XVI., daß er ein katholisches Herz besitze und die Tradition liebe, aber an einem progressiven Verstand leide.

In the speech Bishop Fellay says, concerning Benedict XVI, that he possesses a Catholic heart and loves tradition, but suffers from a progressive mind [my note - this is tough to translate exactly, basically he's saying that the Pope's heart is in the right place but that his head is diustracted by modernism].

Benedikt XVI. versuche um jeden Preis, das Pastoralkonzil zu retten.

Benedict XVI tries to save the pastoral Council [ my note - he means Vatican II] at any cost.

Der Bischof berichtete auch, daß Teile der römischen Kurie und das neokonservativ geführte Staatssekretariat die altgläubigen Initiativen des Papstes torpedierten.

The bishop also reports that part of the Roman Curia and the neoconservatively led Secretariat of State torpedo the traditionalist initiatives of the Pope.

Als Beispiel nannte der Bischof die zum alten Glauben zurückgekehrte Trappistenabtei Mariawald in der deutschen Eiffel.

As an example the bishop names the Trappist abbey of Mariawald in Eifel, which has returned to the old faith.

Der Papst hatte der Abtei schon länger erlaubt, zur alten Ordensdisziplin und Ordensliturgie zurückzukehren. Doch das Staatssekretariat habe das Dekret absichtlich liegenlassen.

The Pope has already given permission for the abbey to return to the old canons and the old liturgy. Nevertheless, the Secretariat of State has deliberately allowed the decree to go by the wayside.

Doch der Bischof sieht auch an der römischen Kurie eine größere Anzahl von Prälaten, die der Piusbruderschaft wohlgesonnen sind.

But the bishop sees a growing number of prelates in the Curia that are well-disposed toward the Pius X fraternity.

Im Petersdom würden täglich rund zwanzig Messen im Alten Ritus gefeiert.

In St. Peter's roughly twenty Masses in the old rite are celebrated daily.

Drei Beispiele für den Niedergang

Three examples of the decline

Schließlich belegte Mons. Fellay den kirchlichen Niedergang seit dem Pastoralkonzil mit einigen wenigen Beispielen.

Finally Monsignor Fellay documents the decline of the Church since the pastoral Council with a few examples.

Er zitiert einen Kanzler der Diözese Trier. Dieser habe einmal festgestellt, daß achtzig Prozent der Priester im Bistum die Realpräsenz Christi in der konsekrierten Hostie leugnen würden.

He cites the chancellor of the diocese of Trier. He once determined that eighty percent of the priests in the diocese would deny the real presence of Christ in the consecrated Host.

In der Diözese Langres in Nordostfrankreich betreut jeder Priester im Durchschnitt sechzig Pfarreien.

In the diocese of Langres in northeastern France there is on average 60 rectories for every priest.

In den Vereinigten Staaten ist die Zahl der Ordensleute seit dem Pastoralkonzil auf zehn Prozent der ursprünglichen Zahlen geschrumpft.

In the United States the number of seminarians has fallen to ten percent of their original number since the pastoral Council.

10 posted on 07/16/2010 1:41:26 PM PDT by wideawake
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To: wideawake

Really good, except “Ordensleute” aren’t seminarians, but religious men and women.


11 posted on 07/16/2010 1:52:50 PM PDT by 0beron
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To: wideawake
Thanks. It's nice to know we have a trustworthy German translator on FR.

In St. Peter's roughly twenty Masses in the old rite are celebrated daily.

That's more than I would have expected.

12 posted on 07/16/2010 1:55:25 PM PDT by Lorica
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To: 0beron
Really good, except “Ordensleute” aren’t seminarians, but religious men and women.

Good catch.

13 posted on 07/16/2010 1:57:38 PM PDT by wideawake
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To: 0beron

Gossip is a sin. Fellay should be ashamed of himself.


14 posted on 07/16/2010 1:57:45 PM PDT by Tax-chick ("It's a jungle out there, kiddies: have a very fruitful day!")
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To: irishjuggler

JP2 wanted a u-indult too and a lot of bishops, particularly in France, were threatening schism.

I don’t see why that’s so hard to believe.

Moreover, the resistance in the church is something to redpect, no?

I don’t think we should ignore it or even discredit the Holy Father because we find it hard to believe, or because we weould have done differently in his place.


15 posted on 07/16/2010 1:58:26 PM PDT by 0beron
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To: Tax-chick

How is that gossip?


16 posted on 07/16/2010 1:59:48 PM PDT by 0beron
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To: Lorica
That's more than I would have expected.

Given the number of side-altars in St. Peter's, fifty Masses could be celebrated every hour.

17 posted on 07/16/2010 2:01:45 PM PDT by wideawake
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To: 0beron

You know, gossip. Talking about what other people are doing, especially what they’re doing privately, and repeating what other people are saying, especially without identifying the people in question. Gossip.

It’s a sin, and not only that, it shows no class, *especially* (to overuse an adverb) if it’s done for the purpose of putting pressure on the subject.


18 posted on 07/16/2010 2:06:37 PM PDT by Tax-chick ("It's a jungle out there, kiddies: have a very fruitful day!")
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To: wideawake

In the new rite, though. I think twenty in the old rite is encouraging, but then again maybe I don’t know what I’m talking about!


19 posted on 07/16/2010 2:08:06 PM PDT by Lorica
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To: 0beron
Anything about the Church that comes from Fellay’s mouth requires independent corroboration, in my opinion.

Wouldn't surprise me if the Pope chooses to celebrate the old rite in private, I appreciate his making it more widely available. I'm all about diversity!

20 posted on 07/16/2010 3:17:30 PM PDT by mockingbyrd (Remember in November.)
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To: Tax-chick

Really doesn’t answer the question, and the definition looks inaccurate. Your pithy rejoinder doesn’t help, *either* as if I’m supposed to know what you’re talking about. Incidentally, talking about stuff people are doing isn’t sinful, you know.

According to your definition, even you are sinning.

Maybe you should make an extra effort, you know, for charity’s sake; for those of us who don’t benefit from your expert holiness and mastery of sarcasm and hauteur.


21 posted on 07/16/2010 4:25:38 PM PDT by 0beron
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To: Tax-chick

Not only are FR Catholics required to answer all questions of dogma, tradition, and practice, they’re required to answer unattributed gossip from unnamed sources and explain that to everyone’s satisfaction.

Didn’t you know?


22 posted on 07/16/2010 4:36:17 PM PDT by Judith Anne (Holy Mary, Mother of God, please pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death.)
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To: 0beron

We seem to have a failure to communicate.


23 posted on 07/16/2010 4:58:56 PM PDT by Tax-chick ("It's a jungle out there, kiddies: have a very fruitful day!")
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To: wideawake
The bishop also reports that part of the Roman Curia and the neoconservatively led Secretariat of State torpedo the traditionalist initiatives of the Pope.

That I can certainly believe! Thank you for translating this.

24 posted on 07/17/2010 5:29:55 AM PDT by livius
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To: irishjuggler

I think he’s probably trying to avoid giving them a cause, because believe me, if he did this, my bishop (in the US) would probably split off too. Still, I think he’s unnecessarily worried, because the heretical bishops could do whatever they liked, but most of the people (and not even the majority of the clergy, I think) would follow them. I think he’s actually refraining from irrating them, wever, because he’s been working behind the scenes on other things that will really flip out these bishops.

Some of these bishops have always been on the verge of schism and hav actually pretty much been living in de facto schism for many years. But he’s working on the problem. For example, while people were fixated on the recent new provisions dealing with moral violations such as child abuse, there was a lot more in those laws dealing with penalties for heresy and things like “ordaining” women.

I think the pope means to get serious about this. He’s beginning to call them on it and they’re going to begin to howl. They see the Old Mass as symbolic of a Faith they thought they’d vanquished, but I think he’ll give them a lot more to worry about soon.


25 posted on 07/17/2010 5:40:05 AM PDT by livius
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To: livius; irishjuggler

Ooops, I meant most of the people WOULDN’T follow them (the heretical bishops).


26 posted on 07/17/2010 5:41:11 AM PDT by livius
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To: Tax-chick

Yep.


27 posted on 07/22/2010 7:44:06 AM PDT by 0beron
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