Posted on 07/19/2010 10:16:04 AM PDT by NYer
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David Kessler had to author three books on grief, the needs of the dying and death, meet Mother Teresa and work with acclaimed thanatologist Elisabeth Kübler-Ross before he could develop the maturity and muster the courage to write "Visions, Trips and Crowded Rooms - Who and What You See Before You Die." "When you're starting out in your professional life, you want to make sure that you're doing credible work," says the vice president of patient support care services, which includes overseeing end-of-life care, pastoral care and social work, at Citrus Valley Health Partners. "If I would have said to anyone early on, 'You know, I've been noticing there's some visions going on here with our dying patients,' they would have thought I was crazy. "After writing three books and being around people like Kübler-Ross and Mother Teresa, I hope that people will realize I'm just always reporting from what's happening at the end of life. I mean, if anything, I see myself as an end-of-life reporter because I know everybody's not going to be around the bedsides of the dying. "I think there's a part of me that's become more courageous and more mature to say: 'You know what? Not only should I find the courage to share these stories, but it's actually a disservice by letting you believe your grandfather or grandmother, who was a very sane person, became crazy in his or her last moments of life,'" he points out. "I actually have a responsibility to say: 'Nope. This is a common phenomenon. I can't explain it. Don't have any interest in arguing about it. Accept it or don't.'" The 51-year-old modern-day student of death, who runs the Citrus Valley Hospice program for the group of three hospitals in the San Gabriel Valley, conducted in-depth interviews with healthcare professionals, members of the clergy as well as individuals who had lost loved ones. They told him what it was like being at the deathbed of a patient, relative or close friend. Eyes fixed on mom The first shared experience reportedly was deathbed visions, most often of the dying person's mother or mother figure. Their eyes became fixed on something no one else in the room could see as they reached out their hands passionately, according to many witnesses of deathbed scenes. A hospital supervisor who Kessler calls Nina in the 168-page book said her dying husband suddenly started talking to someone in his hospital room, although no one else was present. She clearly heard him say, "Mom, I can't believe you're here." Then he told his dead mother all about his living family. But the supervisor said the "most amazing part" was how her husband kept his eyes focused upward on a particular spot, like his mother was hovering there. An oncologist was at the bedside of his brother, who had terminal cancer, with their mother. The patient began talking as if there was somebody right in front of him. And it soon became apparent that he was speaking to his father's parents, whom he'd been particularly close to. The conversation lasted for a couple of hours, with the patient smiling and calling both of his grandparents by name. "As a doctor, it's very easy to dismiss this sort of thing until you see it firsthand," the oncologist told Kessler, adding, "Before the episode, there was a sense of struggle and tension in the air, but now there seemed to be only peace surrounding my brother. I truly believe that it was a result of my grandparents' visit as he died." Kessler found that deathbed vision happenings shared a number of things. First, death had to be imminent, within at least a week and sometimes the same day. Only really dying people, in short, had visions. And these end-of-life visions were remarkably similar, with mothers or mother-like figures being the most likely apparitions. "The more I thought about it, I wasn't as surprised as I might have been, because our mother ushers us through this threshold into life - and wouldn't she be there at the end?" he muses. The healthcare administrator and former nurse stresses that the visions were more than hallucinations or the result of oxygen deprivation. He explains that hallucinations feel unsafe and don't make a lot of sense. The same can be said for the ramblings of people who are oxygen deprived. But the deathbed witnesses he talked to reported that the dying patient carried on a coherent conversation with the unseen visitor and then had no trouble switching back to people in the room.
Standing room only Dying people spoke a lot about getting ready for a trip, which was the second commonly shared deathbed experience, Kessler found. And he emphasizes that the journey was a real concrete trip versus an abstract notion of heading into eternity. People asked "Where's my ticket?" or "What happened to my passport?" not "I'm about to go into the abyss of death." A social worker at a major hospital shared a story about a woman in her 80s dying of congestive heart failure. After not talking for days, she sat up, waving at her daughter to look where she was pointing. "Don't you see them?" she declared in a steady voice. "See who?" the daughter asked. "I see a dock; and there are your dad, grandmother, grandfather and uncle." When the daughter said she still didn't see anybody, her mother exclaimed, "Well, they're all there! They're standing on the dock, waiting for me to come across." After a pause, her gaze fixed again on the wall, she directly addressed the people in her vision. "There's no boat at the dock," she said. "How can I get to you?" The next day, the elderly frail woman uttered her last words with an expression of complete contentment: "The boat is finally at the pier." The final kind of deathbed experience reported to Kessler was crowds and crowded rooms, or what he likes to call the "standing-room-only experience." The dying often reported being in a room - or about to enter one - full of people, some of whom they didn't even recognize. "We may think we only have a handful of friends, but what about all the people we've interacted with or shared a kindness with during our life?" he notes. "What if there's a lineage that we do gather with once again in the afterlife, in heaven? There was an awe of how many people were present for many of the dying." Like the account a hospital chaplain told him of a middle-age woman who was losing her battle with ovarian cancer. Focusing her eyes upward at a corner of her bedroom, she said, "Oh, it's a door. A lovely golden door." Then she told her mother, who was present, there were more and more people trying to push the door open. "Mom, look how many are here for me," she said. "They're going to help me." The chaplain, who was also at her bedside, remarked at how happy she looked, especially when her mother said, "Dorothy, you can go with these folks if it's time." Placing her hand on the dying woman, the chaplain assured her, "It's all right to go. I'll take care of your mom." Shortly after, Dorothy died peacefully. 'It changes everything' "You hear people say, 'we're born alone, we die alone,' but from the deathbed it doesn't seem like a lonely experience," observes David Kessler. "It feels like we're not going into the emptiness but arriving into a fullness." After a moment, he confides, "One of the most starling things for me in hearing these stories is what if death isn't that lonely experience that we should all fear? What if we are comforted and loved and cared for - and there is standing room only? It changes everything. I mean, it reaffirms our faith." |
I’m sure many of us have witnessed these experiences by our loved ones.
But for balance, where are the people with visions of hell?
I don’t know that I have had visions but several times when hubby has found me unconsious with really low blood sugar I’ve said some fairly bizarre things to him.Like telling him to leave “her alone she’s talking to the angels”? I never remember this after it happens but he tells me what I have said to him.
This is the way it is. It differs for all people, but for me I thought I was traveling.
I’ve been such a naughty monkey, that I am definitely going to hell.
We’re in Hell. Despite the numbers of people who deserve a Hell, perhaps everyone will be forced to be happy and content in the Beyond. I’m willing to accept that.
My father in law was looking at a spot toward the ceiling a few days before he died. His family was all praying the Rosary and I was doing the Creeds with him at the time.
He saw something.
He was not looking at the nurse; he most definitely saw something and this lasted about 10 seconds. The nurse was not shocked or surprised. She calmly said, he sees someone. No doubt she's witnessed these things before. Then he relaxed and stopped breathing shortly thereafter.
No one will be able to convince me he was hallucinating. Some people say this is just what the body does when deprived of oxygen - start seeing crazy visions. I believe death is one of the great mysteries that God will not allow us, with all our technical and scientific know-how, to touch.
It’s a favorite line in thrillers that ‘we die alone’.
But we really don’t.
Dunno what I said, but last thing I heard was “we’re going to give you something to make you more comfortable...” Then the operating room was replaced with waking (6 hours later) to sensory deprivation save only for the breathing tube and restrained wrists. The intervening heart/lung stoppage was, according to some, dead. My wife took it harder than I did.
Second Guessing God
There are people who had visions of Hell during a near death experiences. They came back terrified and many of them changed.
http://www.emjc3.com/helland.htm
“But for balance, where are the people with visions of hell?”
This is the shortest I could find from Howard Storm’s experience. It is pretty terrifying.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lF7AzxplsME
I believe that, guilt and regret will make death difficult.
My mother is in poor and declining health. This article is comforting.
I come here to work every day with fear.
I fear two things equally... Either I will not be there for her or else I WILL be there. My anxiety is overwhelming.
“perhaps everyone will be forced to be happy and content in the Beyond. I’m willing to accept that.”
Wouldn’t that be nice if it were the case. The thing that makes me disinclined to believe that is that Jesus was very specific about the existence of hell and what one needed to do to avoid going there.
The thing that makes me inclined to believe Jesus it that he was basically a nobody, a first century middle-eastern peasant, and yet he stated that one day his message would be proclaimed throughout the whole world. Kind of a bold prediction for a nobody.
Turns out, he was right. If he nailed that one, it makes me think he just might be right about the other stuff.
Hell? You can't be serious! There is no such place (/sarc).
You'll find some interesting stories here
The evening before he passed, my grandfather had conversations with one of his brothers and his sister who both passed before he did.
Talking of the afterlife, your link went to Limbo :0)
Be assured that readers of this thread are praying for you and for your dear Mother. May God bless you both.
Thank you.
It is a 30 minute drive for me to get home. You can’t believe the nightmare this is to me sometimes.
The nurse asked if she could go out for a break since I was going to stay a little longer. As soon as she left, my dad sat up and looked off to the right hand corner of the room and babbled something excitedly (he had had a stroke five years before and was hard to understand at the best of times- we could not understand him at all the last week or so). Then he lay back peacefully and his breathing got slower and stopped. I hope it was my mom that he saw; it was the eve of their 65th anniversary and she had died five months before.
What was truly amazing was the complete change in his demeanor, from agitated and fearful to completely at peace.
“Visions, Trips and Crowded Rooms”
A description of a DeathCare hospital experience.....
_______________________________
Yep.
I have known an individual that was hit with a great weight and whose heart stopped for quite a while. She was later awakened by the EMT's. This person saw or heard nothing during the "death." I asked specifically about a tunnel of light and the person answered, No. Nothing!
We are promised life after death but none of the reports of near death experiences prove such survival. I am not aware of reports regarding the physiology of a dying brain; i.e. hormones, what areas showing activity, what areas quiet, the shift between them, the change if any in the neurochemical balance compared to health.
These stories are interesting but not probative.
I have known an individual that was hit with a great weight and whose heart stopped for quite a while. She was later awakened by the EMT's. This person saw or heard nothing during the "death." I asked specifically about a tunnel of light and the person answered, No. Nothing!
We are promised life after death but none of the reports of near death experiences prove such survival. I am not aware of reports regarding the physiology of a dying brain; i.e. hormones, what areas showing activity, what areas quiet, the shift between them, the change if any in the neurochemical balance compared to health.
These stories are interesting but not probative.
To read later
I did with my dad. About four hours before his death, he was passing into a twilight state and seemed to be reliving the past. He kept muttering phrases about incidents in the past as if he was reliving them. Some of the phrases indicated he was reliving my near drowning when I was a child. That much I could tell from his words.
At one point, he opened his eyes and sat straight up in bed and had the most incredible look of joy on his face. He stared straight at the door and smiled for several minutes.
Then he turned to me with that grin on his face, laid back down and died that night.
It shook me. It was a little unnerving at first. I’ve been with several people who died but I’ve never seen anything like that.
He was a very good man who loved God and did recieve Annointing before his death and confession.
You should take great comfort from the manner in which your dad died. Thank you for sharing such a personal and beautiful story.
She will decide that for you. Trust me on that one.
At one point, he opened his eyes and sat straight up in bed and had the most incredible look of joy on his face. He stared straight at the door and smiled for several minutes ... He was a very good man who loved God and did recieve Annointing before his death and confession.Oh, the Sacraments ... beautiful story.
I have a friend that walked into the hospital having a massive heart attack. He told the doctor that he always gave a 110% and expected the doctor to do his best. He was shocked a number of times ( I forgot how many) but the doctor would not give up when the others were indicating to call the death. The doctor says he is not sure how he lived.
He had a vision of watching people ( few) going to Heaven and many (raining like cats and dogs) going to Hell.
I’m more interested in the fact that this phenomenon affects people from all walks of faith and non-faith.
Wow! So throughout my nursing career, the patients I’ve seen die have typically been pretty traumatic, on ventilators, etc. My beloved Grandma was my first experience with this kind of thing. It was almost 2 yrs ago now. She died on a Sunday morning, but Friday evening she was yapping away to her mother, then talking about going on a trip. I am not making this up. Saturday she was barely responsive but kept smiling and occasionally nodding her head. What’s weird is that her dying didn’t even bother me. It’s like a part of me knew she was ok. Amazing.
The older I get the more I am just blown away by God’s love for us & the mysteries of this life.
Living under Obama is already Hell, so there’s no way but up...Heaven (well, Purgatory to be fair).
Prayers for you and your mom.
My father had not been coherent and was struggling the last day of his life; but shortly before his death, he looked at a fixed point, stretched out his hand, and said “Mother” and smiled. He passed shortly after that quietly.
My heart stopped when I had a heart attack . I think I said to the people who were moving me into the ER at the time “Im going out”.
I felt like someone turned the tv set off and I sort of fell back into a very deep dark place . What shocked me was that it was all no big deal ....
also I dont remember where ever I was as being happy I was aware that where ever I was was not a particularly good place ....or maybe I was just frightened
then fairly quickly I followed a light and came back to conciousness finding someone shining a light into my eye
As a child what I remember I learned in Sunday school, I believed with all my heart, and we learned bible verses and sang a lot of childrens' hymns. My daughter goes there and takes her little boy and told me they don't do anything like that now.
The other day when I was so stressed, an old Sunday school tune started running through my head, so I looked up the lyrics. I struggle to get it back, not What a Friend we have in Jesus but oh yes, Tell me the stories of Jesus I love to hear. I've remembered the first verse by heart, but have not given that particular one a thought (I don't think) since I was a child. My stepmother told me my father had seen something and said, "What are they doing here?" She didn't ask so we never knew who he had seen. He had his wits totally about him up to the very end until a sudden code blue.
So I want to make sure this Howard Storm is for real and google, can't find anything mainstream, but there's a lot out there about him.
I pulled up this old FR thread about him and his prophecies, haven't read thru it yet.
I don't know what I think about these experiences. They're all so subjective, and most I've read they see something different, nothing unifying about them. Some arouse suspicion they may not be of God plus some imply if not universal salvation, salvation for anyone no matter what their denomination like that makes no difference. I'm sure God is all powerful and all merciful, but I do wonder about it.
Howard Storm's Amazing Prophecy - Economic Collapse, Civil Unrest (for discernment) posted by NYer
Not all experiences are by those on their deathbeds. I had a grandmother (step) who was in a serious car accident and was in a coma for many months. During that time, her son, who was fighting in WWII was killed. When she finally came out of the coma, her family had to break the bad news to her about her son. When they did, she said she already knew what had happened and that he had appeared to her and told her he had died but that not to worry that he was with Jesus and would see her again. She was totally at peace about it.
I personally do not fear death but see it as a continuation of my existence and rejoice that I have the assurance that I will be with my Lord and savior for eternity because of what Jesus Christ has done for me.
Other Prophechies from NDE's including Howard Storm's alleged prophecy.
I'm not sure and don't want to lead anyone astray nor be led astray, and don't claim to have all the answers.
Thoughts?
I found a large portion of open chapters of Howard Storm's book on google books:
WILL TRY TO GET TO IT LATER TODAY.
All such must be compared to Scripture.
Some such inputs where Scripture is silent or ambiguous, I may hold loosely and wait and see what God confirms.
Also, our interpretations of Scripture’s ambiguous passages are likely off in at least a place or 3 or more.
A quick review of many paragraphs indicates to me that the Stern stuff is a Deception.
I do not believe in reincarnation. I find it UnBiblical.
Scripture says,
IT IS APPOINTED UNTO MAN
ONCE
TO DIE.
AFTER THAT, THE JUDGMENT.
I think I’ll stop there.
efhatisto
This is something to ponder. We must be able to give up our negative feelings against others, no matter how wronged we were. As our Father has forgiven us.
Getting closer to God doesn’t mean you need to go out and join the monastery. Keep yourself open to His word. We all backslide and NOBODY on Earth is perfect.
While I don't pretend to know which is which, I believe it because you rarely hear a story about someone screaming in agony or fear just before they die (although it does happen).
The vast majority of these stories are all "peaceful" and "happy", yet we know from scripture that a whole lot of people are going to hell.
I suppose people mostly want to recount the positive stories so as to comfort people who are dying or who have lost loved ones.
Anyway, just my two cents.
Bump for later.
I can understand your feelings. As a loving child, you want to be there for your mother. At the same time, you have certain other things you must do. Then you also fear the pain that will come if you are there for the end. I went through the same scenario with my own mother.
We tend to demand so much more of ourselves than we would of someone else. All you can do is your best. Be gentle with yourself. You're already going through the grieving process to some degree as your mother's health declines.
As horrible as his death was, I hope that his dream did come true.
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