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Gay Episcopal Bishop Advises UM Church to "Get into Trouble"
Virtue Online ^ | 7/20/10 | Jeff Walton

Posted on 07/21/2010 8:54:59 AM PDT by marshmallow

A United Methodist congregation should conduct same-sex marriages despite the possibility of negative consequences, according to Bishop Gene Robinson of the Episcopal Diocese of New Hampshire.

"I'm here to tell you that when you speak about God's limitless, boundless and unimaginable love, you will get into trouble: I promise you, I know this," Robinson said to the congregation.

Robinson both gave a sermon at the invitation of Foundry's Senior Pastor, Dean Snyder, as well as answered questions from church members during an informal session following the Sunday morning worship services. Robinson's sermon was part of a month-long "outstanding preacher" series including United Methodist Bishops Woodie White, Hope Morgan Ward and John Schol.

Foundry, a large congregation that traces its roots back to 1814, sits on the prominent row of churches that line 16th Street northwest, leading to the White House. President Clinton and his family regularly attended services at Foundry during his presidency.

Snyder was a vocal advocate of the legalization of same-sex marriages in the District of Columbia, joining many other United Methodist clergy in Washington as part of a pro-same-sex marriage coalition. Since the enactment of same-sex marriage by the District's council earlier this year, clergy are legally permitted to conduct such marriages in the Nation's capital.

Foundry is currently engaged in a "Summer of Great Discernment" program as an inquiry about issues relating to gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender (GLBT) members of the congregation. The discernment time will conclude with a congregational vote in September to determine a pastoral response to the legalization of same-sex marriage in the District.

Snyder introduced Robinson with brief words on the discernment program, noting that United Methodist policies do not allow clergy or buildings to host same-sex marriages.

"I believe this [policy] violates our constitution," Snyder explained, adding that he believed it was "wrong to discriminate between couples in the church."

The United Methodist Church does not permit clergy to officiate at same-sex marriages, or for United Methodist facilities to be used for them. In 2008, the General Conference of the United Methodist Church upheld language in the 7.9 million-member denomination's Book of Discipline which calls homosexuality "incompatible" with Christian teaching.

Foundry states on its website that "We are conscious of positions that The United Methodist Church has taken that are opposed to same-gender marriage, but those aspects of church discipline are in conflict with the deeper emphasis of the church's Book of Discipline upon the gospel of grace and pastoral care for all of God's children."

Robinson's presence at Foundry and message to the congregation served to demonstrate the Washington church's position as being at odds with that of the denomination.

"Our preacher of the morning is often introduced as the first openly gay bishop in the Episcopal Church, but that is not particularly why we invited him here this Sunday," Snyder said, explaining how he first heard Robinson via podcast preaching at Calvary Church in Memphis and exclaimed, "an Episcopalian who can preach."

"We are so delighted that Gene Robinson has accepted our invitation," Snyder said. Robinson, too, expressed delight at the invitation to speak at Foundry, which had appeared to have attendance that Sunday larger than half the attendance of his entire diocese.

"Don't you just love change?" Robinson asked jokingly. "Isn't it amazing that this president was elected on a theme of change when we all hate it so much... and yet, change is in the air."

The New Hampshire Bishop explained that change happens when a person begins with a worldview that interprets the world and the things that happen in it.

"Then along comes an experience for which that world view is insufficient and inadequate to explain and incorporate this experience," Robinson said, explaining that the person then enters into a kind of chaos. "Coming out on the other side you either have to deny the reality of that experience or you come out on the other side with a revised and transformed world view that now takes that experience into account. That is exactly what the church, the synagogue, the mosque all over the world is encountering now with homosexuality."

Robinson connected his account of change and homosexuality with Acts chapter 3, where St. Peter heals the crippled beggar at the temple gate.

"If you are gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgender, that is your story. That is my story. We know what it is like to be told you can only come so far," Robinson said. "Do you know what it is like to sit at the door and beg, to be told that our affliction makes it not okay to come to the center of the church's life? We know what it is like when someone in the name of Jesus tells us to stand up and walk, that we are loved beyond our loudest imagining, that we too are God's children and that we too are beneficiaries, heirs of God's creation. We run into the temple and we proclaim God's love."

"Gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered people are coming into the temple and they are bringing their beloved partners and they're saying it's God that has done this," Robinson continued. "What happened in the ancient temple was that the powers that be got really mad."

Robinson asked the congregation if they were going to be "part of a revised and transformed understanding of what God wants" or instead opt for chaos.

The Episcopalian noted that Jesus and his disciples frequently got into trouble with the authorities for their actions.

"Don't think that God's blessing falls just on you," Robinson said. "You start preaching God's love for all of God's children and you will get into trouble."

Robinson then recounted how he charged those who he ordained to the deaconate to get into "Gospel trouble" and that if they're not in trouble; it's not the Gospel that they are preaching.

"In this moment of discernment, think about what you will do," Robinson charged the congregation, recalling the story of his consecration as bishop, in which he wore a bulletproof vest.

"Death isn't the worst thing - not living your life is the worst thing. We don't have to be afraid, ever again."

"During this period of discernment, are you going to be an admirer only of Jesus, or will you be a disciple?" Robinson asked. "You get to choose. Amen."

"We belong to a living and breathing church that is better and better discerning God's will," Robinson said, outlining his belief that God was expanding the church's understanding of inclusion. "As soon as we get through this LGBT issue, there will be someone else," the bishop posited.

Robinson suggested that if the church somehow lost its status in the denomination, that they continue preaching their message, certain of the end result of history. The bishop said that they would be welcomed back into the United Methodist Church with open arms when the denomination also reached that conclusion.

"It'll all come tumbling down," Robinson said, clarifying that he meant the church's policy, not the United Methodist Church itself.

"You may have some people leave over this," Robinson cautioned, naming the Falls Church, a large conservative Anglican parish in nearby suburban Virginia that departed the more liberal Episcopal Church along with other congregations. "I hate that, but people have to make their own decisions."

The Episcopal bishop also explained his views on scriptural prohibitions on homosexual behavior. Episcopalians, Robinson explained, examined the meaning of scripture in its immediate context and only then asked if it applied to them in present day. Robinson claimed that the seven verses specifically prohibiting homosexual behavior were each addressing an understanding of what homosexuality was perceived to be: a disordered action of a heterosexual "behaving badly", rather than a different orientation. In that context, Robinson said, scripture's authors were not aware of monogamous committed homosexual partnerships, and thus those were not addressed in scripture.

The New Hampshire bishop did not speak to the wider themes in the Bible about husband and wife, marriage, or the traditions of the church and Hebrew people. He was insistent, however, that Foundry's decisions in regards to same-sex marriage and homosexuality in general would lead the denomination in a new direction.

"When a church like Foundry stands up, do you think others around the country won't notice?" Robinson asked. If the sought for changes in Methodism did not result, "you can always come home to the Anglican church," the bishop said to laughter and clapping.


TOPICS: Mainline Protestant; Moral Issues; Theology
KEYWORDS: anglican; ecusa; episcopagan; episcopal; freformed; gaygene; generobinson; homosexualagenda; methodism; methodist; missvicki; religiousleft; tec; umc; unitedmethodist
Robinson claimed that the seven verses specifically prohibiting homosexual behavior were each addressing an understanding of what homosexuality was perceived to be: a disordered action of a heterosexual "behaving badly", rather than a different orientation. In that context, Robinson said, scripture's authors were not aware of monogamous committed homosexual partnerships, and thus those were not addressed in scripture.

Ol' Gene's got it all figured out.

1 posted on 07/21/2010 8:55:03 AM PDT by marshmallow
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To: marshmallow

After giving this advice did the “bishop” proceed to step up to the altar and fornicate with his latest “hot young thing”?


2 posted on 07/21/2010 8:59:53 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (''I don't regret setting bombs,I feel we didn't do enough.'' ->Bill Ayers,Hussein's mentor,9/11/01)
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To: marshmallow
Oh yes, the Methodists should go ahead as Episcopalian Robinson said and have a MAJOR Denominational Split and loose a huge percentage as they did to the Anglicans.

Oh Yeah, right, go right ahead and drink the Koolaid and watch another denomination vanish on the ash-heap of history.

3 posted on 07/21/2010 9:01:07 AM PDT by sr4402
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To: marshmallow

“And if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a large millstone tied around his neck”

Mark 9:42


4 posted on 07/21/2010 9:03:56 AM PDT by bobjam
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To: sr4402

It’s happening to the Episcopal church with landslide swiftness.


5 posted on 07/21/2010 9:05:33 AM PDT by mia
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To: marshmallow

Genie ought to mind its own darned business.


6 posted on 07/21/2010 9:05:43 AM PDT by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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To: marshmallow

There was a time that I had a great respect for the Episcopal church. That was a time when there were two Episcopal churches, a northern one and a southern one. The southern one was convinced to join the northern one and within 20 years you have gay bishops. How many times are southerners going to be fooled into accepting immorality based on moral pledges of unity?


7 posted on 07/21/2010 9:07:13 AM PDT by equalitybeforethelaw
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To: sr4402
The real problem with Robinson's approach is he doesn't have any idea of how God views sin and how desperate mankind's situation really is. If he did, he would abhor anything that had any taint of sin and promoting Holy Matrimony (one man to one woman under God) as fast as he possibly could.

But adultery (mixing crud with Holy Matrimony) is in vogue these days and Robinson cannot help but preach it.

8 posted on 07/21/2010 9:09:44 AM PDT by sr4402
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To: marshmallow

Another church destroyed. Faggots from within. The usual method.


9 posted on 07/21/2010 9:17:08 AM PDT by MarineBrat (Better dead than red!)
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To: marshmallow

The homoagendist selective use of the Bible is a crime.
Yes God loves you.
God also hates your sin.
Seems you leave that part out all the time.


10 posted on 07/21/2010 9:31:32 AM PDT by SECURE AMERICA
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To: Gay State Conservative

“...After giving this advice did the “bishop” proceed to step up to the altar and fornicate with his latest “hot young thing”?....”


It’s all about God’s “beautiful, unlimited love” after all! And Gene will certainly be looking for the limits.


11 posted on 07/21/2010 9:33:23 AM PDT by PGR88
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To: xzins

Ping...So, I wonder if this UMC congregation will be taking investment advice from Bernie Madoff?


12 posted on 07/21/2010 9:35:16 AM PDT by opus86
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To: marshmallow
"Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God."
1 Corinthians 6:9-11

God will not be mocked, Vicky Gene Robinson.

13 posted on 07/21/2010 9:38:21 AM PDT by Psalm 73 ("Gentlemen, you can't fight in here - this is the War Room".)
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To: marshmallow; sionnsar; lightman; redgolum

Gene is out to destroy another denomination. Next we’ll see him invited to ELCA meets


14 posted on 07/21/2010 10:07:13 AM PDT by Cronos (What's the point of a homosexual pride parade? Is an adulterer's pride parade next?)
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To: marshmallow
"Robinson claimed that the seven verses specifically prohibiting homosexual behavior were each addressing an understanding of what homosexuality was perceived to be: a disordered action of a heterosexual "behaving badly", rather than a different orientation."

Paul was well aware of homosexual orientation only he call it "vile affections". They are the same thing and Paul condemned it.

15 posted on 07/21/2010 11:46:22 AM PDT by circlecity
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To: opus86; P-Marlowe; Dr. Eckleburg; wagglebee
Ping...So, I wonder if this UMC congregation will be taking investment advice from Bernie Madoff?

Probably not, because the UMC cares about money. In fact, one of the few things they're fundamentally biblical about is giving money.... :>)

Don't come between a bishop and his money.

They can let these poor homosexual souls suffer terrible health in this life and then go on to eternal separation from God, and that is specifically mentioned in the bible, and they'll song and dance, tap dance, tiptoe, you name, to change the meaning of that.

But you'll never see them try to change the meaning of giving money.

But, why would anyone give to religious leaders who: believe God's a myth, the bible is irrelevant (except the money parts), and social science and service is the religion of now and the future?

I'd just say, "I gave to the Fed at the office."

16 posted on 07/21/2010 11:59:23 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it. Those who truly support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: xzins
"I gave to the Fed at the office."

lol. Exactly.

17 posted on 07/21/2010 1:57:03 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: marshmallow

Only, if you press the issue you’ll find that there is NO sexual ethic to “preachers” like Robinson. If you can’t preach against same-sex “partnering” then there is little sexual behavior that cannot be condemned.


18 posted on 07/22/2010 4:53:05 AM PDT by fwdude
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To: fwdude

That’s: “There is little sexual behavior that CAN be condemned.”


19 posted on 07/22/2010 4:53:46 AM PDT by fwdude
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To: All

We had a guest pastor (retired) give a homily about homosexuality that turned political. I walked out halfway through and have not been back, much to the chagrin of my wife. The regular pastor has been pushing illegal immigration and “environmental stewardship” on us the past six months and this was the straw.


20 posted on 07/22/2010 5:01:52 AM PDT by newnhdad (The longest of journeys begins with one step.)
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To: marshmallow
Our Rector at an Episcopal church in CT was formerly from a church in New Hampshire and knew Robinson when he was there.

When I told him we would be leaving the church unless it condemned the actions of the Convention that elected Robinson, he said that homosexuality was acceptable to him when there was a long-term, committed relationship.

I then asked him to define "long-term" and "committed" and to tell me a what point does a homosexual relationship change from short-term fling to long-term, committed. While he was grasping at straws and stammering to explain, I then told him to substitute the word homosexual with thief and tell me how acceptable it would be to him to have a church treasurer being in a "long-term, committed" life as an embezzler.

My last words to him as he continued to babble were, "Bull$hit!"

In addition: One of his rationalizations was the Episcopal Church having formerly forbidden women from entering the priesthood and now they were allowed to do so. His words to me were, "Surely you don't think women should be excluded from the priesthood do you?"

My response, "I think you should apologize to every woman for that remark as you just equated being a female to living a sinful life."

21 posted on 07/22/2010 5:19:28 AM PDT by N. Theknow (Everything I needed to know about 0bama, I learned from Wesley Mouch.)
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To: marshmallow

The homosexual lobby is completely undermining the Christian churches. We have the lavender mafia and the others have overt, outspoken representatives advocating immorality.

I wonder if this is the beast that is seen in one vision that approaches the altar.


22 posted on 07/22/2010 6:02:04 AM PDT by OpusatFR
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To: OpusatFR

“God’s love is limitless, boundless and unimaginable”? Tell that to the souls in Hell.


23 posted on 07/22/2010 7:02:06 AM PDT by massgopguy (I owe everything to George Bailey)
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