Skip to comments.Daily Gems: Chains of bondage will fall [LDS open]
Posted on 07/21/2010 8:57:19 AM PDT by T Minus Four
"Millions of ordinances are performed in the temples each year in behalf of our deceased loved ones. May we continue to be faithful in performing such ordinances for those who are unable to do so for themselves. I love the words of President Joseph F. Smith as he spoke of temple service and of the spirit world beyond mortality. Said he, 'Through our efforts in their behalf their chains of bondage will fall from them, and the darkness surrounding them will clear away, that light may shine upon them and they shall hear in the spirit world of the work that has been done for them by their [people] here, and will rejoice with you in your performance of these duties' (Joseph F. Smith, in Conference Report, Oct. 1916, 6).
"Brothers and sisters, the church continues to grow, as it has since being organized over 179 years ago. It is changing the lives of more and more people every year and is spreading far and wide over the earth as our missionary force seeks out those who are looking for the truths which are found in the gospel of Jesus Christ. We call upon all members of the church to befriend the new converts, to reach out to them, to surround them with love, and to help them feel at home."
Thomas S. Monson, "Welcome to Conference," Ensign, Nov. 2009, 4-6
Thomas S. Monson, current "prophet" and president of the LDS church.
Once someone is deceased, their eternal destiny has been sealed. You can do anything you want on their “behalf”, but it’s just a waste of time designed to make those left behind feel like they have some power they do not.
Question?......Once these departed people are baptized by surrogates are they then on the official membership roles?
Gotta post and run. Back soon.
I still cannot find the reasoning behind baptizing those who have departed to the other side. Anything we might think or want to do on their behalf has zero affect on them. It looks like this reitual is to generate monies and occupy the mebers in yet another distraction and wearing down of their ability to reason for themselves. I say this because anyone who steps into that water for that ritual is conducting something which is not of God...it is a rituall which is done as well in satanic circles so why imitate such a vile thing?
It mocks the very Word of God.
What's the point of His dying for us...if we can just pray dead people into heaven?
It's blasphemy in my opinion.
I wouldn't want to be in the business of mocking God.....
Sorry Tom; but the BIBLE states otherwise:
And as it is appointed to men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Note what he DIDN'T say: RESTORED!!!
Hear ye! hear ye!
All those having business here will please step forward.
My client claims that her name IS in the Book of Life - there must have been a scribal error for it's being overlooked and she requests the COURT to FORCE the gatekeeper to let her in, as she was a faithful - no - VERY faithful member of GOD's church; the one with His NAME on all their buildings.
Excuse me, Counselor, but our research has alREADY shown that she did NOT do the simple requirements to make it in, but instead relied on a complicated and time consuming method of religious rituals that absoLUTEly no power in them at all.
Your client is to be remanded to the outer darkness area.
Does she have any words for the court?
You are very funny! I was SURE that was MIS-TRANSLATED!
I, and the bible, are in absolute agreement with you.
I'm not sure either, but I'd love to know. I fond my parent on their geneological website. I can only assume they have benn dead-dunked. Funny, they are still very much alive. These life-long Catholics are quite amused at possibley being numbered among the lDS on theri memebrship rolls.
Wait til they find out they're alive and send them a tithing bill.
“For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us
to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and
preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering
of God waited in the days of Noah ...” (1 Peter 3:18-20)
For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged
according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. (1 Peter 4:6)
It’s amazing that Jesus preached also to the spirits of the disobedient. Appearantly we can repent
and accept Jesus even after death. All is not lost for those who lived without Jesus in their lives.
But there is a problem; how can they be baptized? For Jesus said that
“He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
“... Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit,
he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” (John 3:5)
The solution to this problem is vicarious baptisms, where the living are baptized for the dead.
This was a common practice amoung the early saints. St. Paul tells us about it in the Bible.
“Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are
they then baptized for the dead? (1 Cor. 15:29)
We know this was a common practice because Paul didn’t have to justify it, but rather, he justified
the rising of the dead by the vicarious baptisms. Clearly, St. Paul and the Corinthians considered
the practice of baptisms for the dead to be a normal part of the Gospel, otherwise there would have
been no justification in St. Paul’s argument.
“Thus saith the profit”
"... The term "spirits" is not used in reference to human beings. Humans are never called "spirits" anywhere in the New Testament. The closest reference is Heb 12:23, which makes mention of "spirits of just people made perfect," and in this verse the use of "spirits" is qualifiedthey are spirits of people.
In 1 Pet 3:19, Peter does not qualify the term "spirits." These are not the spirits of dead people, or Old Testament people. They are simply spirits. When this term occurs in the New Testament without qualification, it refers to demonic spirits (Matt 8:16; Luke 10:20).
Other times it is qualified, but still is typically used as a reference for the demonic powers: "unclean spirits" (Matt 10:1; Mark 1:27; 3:11; . In the bible, human beings are not called spirits, even when they are dead and awaiting resurrection. Spirits are something humans have, not something that they are. Thus, 1 Pet 3:18-20 should be understood as describing Jesus proclamation of victory over death to the demonic realm.
First of all, Christians don't establish doctrine on one single mention of something in the bible. You can have an opinion, you can believe it, but it's not good doctrine. For instance, I believe in a pre-tribulation rapture but I won't die on that hill. And I won't reject someone who is a mid- or post tribber.
Secondly, Paul says THEY are baptising for the dead. Not we are . Google for a site that translates the original Greek into English. Fascinating. I wish I knew Greek.
Third, the subject being discussed was the resurrection. Apparently those who were batising for the dead didn't believe in a resurrection. Paul was asking what therefore the point was.
Mind bending/boggling placemarker
the words of President Joseph F. Smith as he spoke of temple service and of the spirit world beyond mortality. Said he, ‘Through our efforts in their behalf their chains of bondage will fall from them, and the darkness surrounding them will clear away, that light may shine upon them and they shall hear in the spirit world of the work that has been done for them by their [people] here, and will rejoice with you in your performance of these duties’ (Joseph F. Smith, in Conference Report, Oct. 1916, 6).
What blasphemy !!!
Thanks for posting these words from a Prophet of the Lord. They are indeed true.
As far as the rest of the attack posts from the anti-Mormon attack squad regulars go, I invite everyone to read all of them and then do some research on your own from more than one side of the “issues”. Don’t forget to check out the vast multitude of others threads just bursting at the seams with anti-Mormon propaganda. You’ll find all sorts of copy/paste fun as well as tons of off the cuff /sarcasm “loving comments” /sarcasm off.
Is what all these Mormon attack squad people parrot day in and and day out on these boards true? Don’t take their word for it. Find out for yourself. Put forth some effort. You do want the truth right? Prove it.
Read both sides. Talk to both sides. Not just mine. Not just theirs. Make up your own mind.
Here’s a few links to get your started from a different viewpoint. The vast majority of the issues brought up can be found and addressed at http://www.fairlds.org/ I have found but here’s more.
Yep, it is statements like that which make it clear the blasphemy of lds.
Yep, I agree with PD read what lds say about themselves and their own efforts. Not the Biblical Jesus paying the full price, but what they can do to help the lds jesus.
Read and read some more their own words. Even though what is posted here are from lds sources with links and personal experiences provided but follow the links provided by PD and see for yourself.
Yes. I urge everyone to do their own research. Be sure to go to Youtube and search for “LDS baptism for the dead”, or “LDS temple ordinances”. “LDS secret handshakes” is another must see.
Go to Google images and search “Mormon magic underwear”.
Search the web for the writings of the former all-powerful, infallible LDS prophets of God, like Bruce McConkie and read his words.
PD, in the spirit of gaining knowlege, perhaps you could walk us all through this rather complicated chart expaining the LDS plan of eternal progression.
Or, if it is in error, please point out what is wrong with it.
I assume that is the ultimate goal?
So, I also assume that at that point it's "Adios Hay-zeus"?
As a Christian, I intend to follow Jesus for eternity. My goal is not to use Him as a stepping stone for my own exaltation and then to leave Him behind.
Why? Because now all the "new gods" get to start the cycle anew, in perpetuity.
If there is, I invite you to point out the error, offer proof of the error and we can debate the merits of said error.
You are interested in the truth right? Prove it.
Well, you know MEGoody -- even the Book of Mormon agrees with you! The Book of Mormon says there's no second chances:
Alma 42:16 says that eternal punishment is as eternal as the life of the soul. [It's not temporary] Alma 34:32-35 says there's no second chance: For behold THIS LIFE is the time for men to prepare to meet God...do not procrastinate the day of your repentance until the end; for after this day of life...then cometh the night of darkness wherein THERE CAN BE NO LABOR PERFORMED. Ye CANNOT say, when ye are brought to that awful crisis, that I will reprent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye CANNOT say this; for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world. (I cited parts of vv. 32-34)
Both Mosiah 16:11 & 1 Nephi 15:35 says there's only TWO destinations post-death (not a third called "spirit prison"). And the BoM knows only heaven & hell -- no temporary spirit prison (Mormn 9:23; Ether 4:18; Hel. 14:18-19; Alma 3:26; Alma 40:26; 2 Nephi 2:28-29; 2 Nephi 9:16; Alma 41:4; 3 Nephi 27:11,17; 2 Nephi 28:21-22).
Dont you get the feeling that Mormon leader propaganda has the effect that even their BoM verses are subject to scissors being cut out if it doesnt fit with what their leaders say?
Why, what would happen if grassroots Mormons actually studied their own Book of Mormon on post-life instead of 'bot-like just regurgitating whatever their leaders mouth? (Smith took much of his early belief system from the Bible before twisting it).
So, what is Mormon hell now (beyond the Book of Mormon) per Mormon leaders?
"...hell...is a temporary state in which spirits will be taught the gospel and have the opportunity to repent and accept ordinances for them that are performed." (True to the Faith, 2004, p. 81)
Boy is that getting out of hell free or what?
Or how about Doctrine & Covenants 19:16-18, which says that hell/outer darkness is for the few? Yet they are still "saved": "After suffering in full for their sins they will be allowed to inherit the lowest degree of glory which is the telestial kingdom. The hell in the spirit world will not continue forever." (Official Lds publication, Gospel Principles, p. 280)
So we're told hell's going to be canceled like some bad Fall TV program? (Now, that would have been news to Helaman -- Book of Mormon, 6:28, and Moroni -- 8:13)
In fact, if hell for mankind is canceled, why does Mosiah 2:38-39 in the Book of Mormon say it's never-ending torment? An unquenchable fire?
You mean hell's unquenchable fire will be quenched? Its never-ending torment will go on permanent vacation? (Is Mosiah turning over in his grave? Or was he a phantasm and never existed to begin with?)
And, as I quoted above, what about Alma? 42:16 which says that eternal punishment is as eternal as the life of a soul. What? Are souls like plastic cups that you just toss out when hell becomes a worn-out concept? Really?
How consistent are Mormons, anyway? Why arent Mormons Book of Mormon adherents when it comes to after-life explanations?
Bottom line: Lds, if your teachers are teaching you something that's not even taught from the "fulness of the everlasting gospel" Book of Mormon on where that "gospel" is supposed to take you, what does that tell you about how your leaders are NOT led of God even by your own canon standards?
Christians know that angels are a completely different order of created beings. Angels are angels and humans are humans. One cannot become another, in spite of the heartbreaking baby obituaries.
So, I respectfully invite you to explain the "angel" Moronoi whose gilded image is atop the spire of most LDS temples. I am confused. Your church teaches he was a man, son of Mormon, son of Nephi. Then he became an angel and appeared to Joseph Smith.
Maybe he was a ghost?
Well, I suppose this is another thing that you so rightly point out that people should investigate for themselves. I didn’t really expect you to defend this.
(I'd think it'd add some humor to the thread to see Mormons try to explain those passages away).
And for those who may have a "neutral" opinion of Lds: What kind of faithlessness is engendered when Mormons aren't even openly faithful to their so-called sacred scriptures?
Huh? What version is that? Since there are nine versions of the first vision, is it like 1.1 or 1.9?
Oh, and as you shop among the used-car lemons, be sure you visit both the lemon-makers' Web site as well as the car dealership Web sites for their "take" on what they're selling... Youll find all sorts of copy/paste fun...
Well, at least when something is copied & pasted on some of these threads, you have actually have real posters to whom they are posted! (Unlike post #17 from Webboy45, who traditionally posts the usual same copy & paste job to phantom posters; and another Lds poster, BlueMoose, sometimes does the same thing)
Can't get anymore impersonal than that!!! Makes you think these two represent those Lds missionaries, who when no one answers their knock or doorbell ring, gives their spiel, anyway!
Moroni, as a mortal man, was the last author of the Book of Mormon, burying the metal plates upon which it was recorded, some 421 years after the birth of Christ.
He followed in the footsteps of his father, Mormon (after whom the Book of Mormon is named) as keeper of an ancient record detailing the history and eventual destruction of their people, the Nephites, by their enemies, the Lamanites."
Fast forward about 1400 years:
Revelation 14:6 reads "And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people."
During the night of September 21, 1823 Moroni, who was then a glorified personage, visited young Joseph Smith as a heavenly messenger sent from God. Moroni told Joseph of the very plates he himself had buried 1400 years earlier. The angel Moroni also recited a number of scriptures to Joseph. Joseph describes the heavenly visit in the Joseph Smith-History portion of the Pearl of Great Price.
The "angel" Moroni, 1400 years after his human death, appearing to Joseph Smith. WHY is he wearing pseudo-biblical robes?
a gilded statue of the "angel" Moroni which graces the top of most LDS temples.
The words of Jesus to Joey Smith and his legal counsel, Personage & Son: Did you read this letter I sent to MY Bride ?
Personage: Signed in RED INK ? That will never stand up in court HAHA How stupid.
Jesus: That’s not ink. That’s My Blood.
Personage: OOOOOOOOO Yucky. Keep that away from my son.
Jesus: Your son doesnt say much.
Personage: He never has had anything to say.
Jesus: Why do you keep rubbing your hands on your tail ?
Personage: You said that red stuff was BLOOD. Who signs a legal letter in blood ?
Jesus: I do.
Personage: Well you’re one sick abominable beast. I dont use blood for anything.
Jesus: What do you use instead ?
Personage: Water. Good old clean water. I drink it and i wash in it. We wash all that blood off people who die with it still clinging to them. Own all the body washing franchises.
Jesus: There’s power in My Blood. (Romans 5:9, Hebrews 13:20)
Personage: Your Blood is yucky.
Jesus: Unless people drink My Blood and eat My Flesh, they will not have Eternal Life and they wont belong to Me. They are not Mine and members of My church, My Bride. (John 6:54-56, 1 Corinthians 11:25)
Personage: I never heard anything so pewky. Cannibals.
Jesus: And unless people are washed in My Blood they dont belong to Me. (Hebrews 9:14, Revelation 1:5)
Personages: Now youre really talkin crazy talk. Are you gettin all this Joey ?
Joey: Yeah he sure is dumb. Weird fella.
Personage: Oh by the way, Jesus, this is Joey Smith.
Jesus: Yes, I know who he is.
Joey: Wadya mean ? I dont know you. I’ve never met ya before in my life. I know everyone in these here parts.
Jesus: I know you havent. But I know all about you.
Personage: Now, now. Ah let’s keep it friendly.
Jesus: Want some water to wash your hands ? How about you Joey ?
Personage: No Joey can wash himself.
Joey: Yeah I can wash myself.
Jesus: Unless I wash you, you wont belong to me (John 13:8)
Joey: Say, man, what happened to your hand ?
Personage: Oh he was in a war or something.
Jesus: Yes, I was in a war againt the powers of darkness for men’s souls. I won.
Joey: HAHA Boy I’d hate to see the other guy if you won.
Jesus: I crushed his head.
Joey: WOW You da man.
Joey: This son of Personage’s sweated in a garden once. He’s been in a wheelchair ever since. Won a Purple Heart.
Jesus: Yes there’s no law against stolen honor.
Joey: What ?
Jesus: Yes, I see.
Joey: Did you use any big weapons ?
Jesus: Only a Cfross.
Joey: You cant kill many guys with one of those.
Jesus: You would be surprized what can be done with a Cross.
Joey: Why, what did you do with yours ?
Jesus: I vanquished all My enemies.
Joey: Gee who were those guys ?
Personage: OK we gotta go now Joey. See ya later, Jesus. I mean AH yeah..
Joey: Gee man watcha shaking for ? Watcha hurry ? (James 2:19)
Personage: I just rembered something.
Joey: Gosh, i was havin a good time. That guy seemed like a swell fella. And he’s a war hero. Didya see his feet ? I was agonna ask him about that.
Personage: Oh yes he was a brave fellow. But not our kind
Joey: Hey maybe he won a Purple Heart like your son did. Did you see his head wound ?
Joey: Yeah yeah..
Joey: And when turned around. his back..
Personage: Come on, Joey.
Joey: Gosh he was interesting. I could have listened to him a bit more.
Personage: Here’s my son. hear him.....
Only if they said Yes when asked if they want to become a mormon. ..
However it never has been explained how a live mormon mishie goes down i nto Hell or up into Heaven and “preaches the mormoin “gospel” to them, and then gets to come back to report the new converts...
I guess it was just one more thing Joey Smith didnt think that far ahead about..
for a “smart” 14 year old, that Joey Smith sure was ignorant..
You crack me up Nana:-)
I apologize for responding to your question.
They had endowments, sealings, anything that Monson is entitled to...
and they would have said
if they had been asked..
But most were already dead when Joey Smith was born ..
ERRORS ??? Forget it...The mormons are never wrong...
Your legal documents are wrong...
Your parents are still alive ??? You sure ???
They cant be ...they must be dead...They were baptism already..
The remarkable thing is that according to the LDS records, they are both 111 years old and have been married for 91 years. And yet they insist on walking around and acting alive. I don’t know whether to call an exorcist or Willard Scott.
Ya know, apostates do that..
They must have sinned some how..
They appear to refuse to “follow the lawd”
Mine must have been right cranky when they got pulled out of Heaven and the presence of God to hang out in the terrestial kingdom...
Oh, how interesting.
Really all the versions they have about the visions......
its like the first one was: you are special by version nine it is: you are really really super duper special.
Hey, was that the being of the self esteem movement?
having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, (Revelation 14:16)
Live people !!! Dwelling !!!
This part of the Bible is not translated correctly..
I have some very good phantom posters. i have always liked the F4.
I also have some very good AD-6 posters.