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I Donít Need your Catechism! (Catholic Caucus)
Catholic Exchange ^ | July 22, 2010 | Marlon De La Torre

Posted on 07/22/2010 5:57:02 AM PDT by NYer

A couple of years ago, a Pastor asked me to provide a catechetical training day for teachers in his Catholic school and CCD program. One of my first questions to him was what issues had developed requiring my assistance. The Pastor voiced to me his concern over poor doctrinal formation he suspected the children were receiving. I asked him how he finally came to this point. He said; “I knew things were off when all I saw was glue, crayons, construction paper and scissors during an eighth grade religion class.” Right there and then I realized what I had to work with.

The inevitable day arrives. As the catechists walked into the parish center, we began with prayer and introductions. I typically begin with a short story reflecting on the catechetical formation for the day. This process helps to gauge the audience and determine when to run when they have had enough. Kidding aside, the first segment involved preparing them for the day, the aim of the instruction, purpose, goals, desires and application for the classroom. A good strategy when teaching teachers is not to patronize them. They are teachers and know everything. I know I am one of them. In reality, the heart of instruction here lies with an authentic witness of the living Gospel of Jesus Christ in a gradual loving way.

Knowing that many teachers resort to arts and crafts because of a genuine fear and ignorance in teaching the Catholic faith to students I began the training by asking the catechists for the one thing they would like to know about the faith they still had questions on. After a subtle pause (pretty typical) hands were drawn. The questions asked centered on sin, true presence of Christ in the Eucharist, confession, purgatory, mass participation, is the Church biblical, Mary, how to read the bible, other religions etc. My next question to them was why they wanted to know about these particular doctrines. Their response was nothing short of amazing. They did not know how these particular teachings came to be! Keep in mind, these catechists are supposedly teaching children the Catholic faith. Right there and then I realized we needed to start at the very beginning e.g. Do you believe in God the Father the almighty?

If the teacher does not have a sound understanding of how their life reflects the Gospel let alone living within the Story of salvation, then how are they going to impart the story onto their students? Hence, the focal point of the problem we face in the catechetical field. Our catechists lack basic doctrinal formation. I charted a different course of action realizing that this group needed a systematic engaging approach to learn and apply Catholic doctrine in the classroom.

The result was a mini-RCIA course where I went through Salvation History and presented to them their role in light of Jesus Christ the Divine Teacher (Heb 11:6). In other words, they needed to see how the Church came to be, their role within the Church and the graces given to us by Christ at Baptism to continue His work in the Church He founded. A basic outline of the curriculum for this training session looked something like this:

  1. Introduction to God’s plan for salvation in our lives.
  2. Creation and God’s love for us.
  3. Original Sin and the fall from grace because of the first sin.
  4. Proto-evangelium (First Gospel)
  5. God’s covenants with his people i.e. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses
  6. The role of our Blessed Mother as the “New Eve.”
  7. Summary on Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture
  8. Summary on Apologetics
  9. Summary of the Seven Sacraments
  10. Summary of the Ten Commandments
  11. Summary of Mortal Sin and Venial Sin
  12. The Incarnation
  13. Liturgy and the Mass
  14. The Church
  15. Lives of the Saints
  16. The Our Father, Hail Mary, and the Apostles Creed.

It was important the catechists saw the biblical basis for these doctrinal pillars. In addition, how the Catechism references the teachings of the Church through the footnotes. A short primer on how to use the Catechism of the Catholic Church and view the references, cross-references, and articles numbers to find a particular teaching gave the catechists a better grasp of the information.

This experience is common. A generation of uncatechized faithful over the past thirty-years has drifted throughout their Catholic life not knowing the graces they received through their Baptism. The recitation of our Baptismal promises appears as an afterthought to many. When asked within the Rite of Baptism, Do you reject, sin, and all his empty works, and all his empty promises . . . it begs to ask the question to these teachers whether they truly understand what sin is in order to reject it.

When I posed this very question to one of the teachers in the training session, the response was a common one. Why do we need to concentrate on sin, it is more important to focus on the works of Jesus? Do you see where this particular catechist has quietly misaligned the purpose of Christ and His Church. Whether its ignorance, issues with the doctrine of sin, or a personal experience initiating this response, the opportunity to discuss the nature of sin was difficult. Now, we must be careful when discussing the doctrine of sin from this pastoral perspective; we do not know what the person has gone through personally where a certain sinful act may have caused negative, spiritual harm or drawn out a bad experience. It is vital that a catechist be carefully aware of the audience they are instructing. However, we cannot shy away from addressing the dangers of sin itself.

Another teacher, noting her frustration in sitting through a dreadful class in her opinion said these magic words:You can keep your catechism, how do you expect me to apply it in the classroom?” Moreover, there you go, this brave soul echoed the sentiments of others who had resisted on using the catechism in the classroom. This “shot heard around the classroom,” reflected the genuine mentality of many teachers viewing the catechism as a useless tool because it probably did not provide cutouts for the kids to “draw” and “cut-out.” This comment troubled me because of an apparent ignorance towards the application or appreciation of the Catechism. There is fruit to the argument that it is not the teachers fault. From one perspective, this may be true; nonetheless, it does not negate the fact of what we are dealing with now. St. Augustine-the Father of Catechetics describes catechizing the ignorant in this way:

“The best method for instructing ignorant men in Christian doctrine, one that will bear much fruit is to ask questions in a friendly fashion after the explanation; from this questioning one can learn whether each one understood what he heard or whether the explanation needs repeating. In order that the learner grasp the matter, we must ascertain by questioning whether the one being catechized has understood, and in accordance with his response, we must either explain more clearly and fully or not dwell further on what is known to them etc. But if a man is very slow, he must be mercifully helped and the most necessary doctrines especially should be briefly imparted to him.”

As the Catechist trainer in this situation, you cannot scold nor demean these individuals. In many ways, ignorance is rooted in their responses due to a lack of formation. Thus, a gentle but firm disposition serves us well in this type of situation because we do not want to lose them. Our hope rests in a genuine conversion for these teachers (1 Pt 3:15). The “you can keep your catechism” statement by the teacher mentioned earlier should not detract anyone from teaching the faith. My call for this person was to help her find God. An opportunity arose to present the Gospel, reveal the importance of Christ in our lives and provide her with an open opportunity to seek Him.

It is very important that the catechist reveal the relevance of doctrine in the lives of the faithful. Our faith is naturally explicit (1 Thess 2:13) because God has made Himself visible through His Church. Man naturally seeks what is visible and revealed. For instance, when we are able to observe and recognize a moral act the exercise of the doctrinal action takes effect on our senses. We are able to witness doctrine exercised. The liturgy – a public work, provides a visible reality of the existence of faith and the exercise of doctrine.

By the end of the day, the teachers who survived my training session realized in a small way the necessity of teaching doctrine to children. The success of the day came not by how much doctrine I could expose them to, it was helping them realize how little they knew about the faith and what to do about. Not only for their souls but also for the souls of the children they teach.

The religion instructor must be prepared to proclaim the truth of the Catholic Church. His/her responsibility is to aid the development of the person they are instructing by explaining Church teaching carefully and appropriately through a careful transmission rooted in Sacred Tradition, Sacred Scripture and the Catechism of the Catholic Church. The door to the nourishing a soul in Catholic doctrine must be convincing so the person applies these doctrines to everyday life. The need for the Catechism of the Catholic Church is more relevant than ever if we genuinely desire to impart the Catholic faith. Our duty and responsibility is to answer the questions our students have. Clarity of truth is primary in our instruction.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Ministry/Outreach; Theology
KEYWORDS: catechism; catholic
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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Marlon De La Torre is the Associate Director of Evangelization and Catechesis for the Catholic Diocese of Kansas City-St. Joseph.


1 posted on 07/22/2010 5:57:04 AM PDT by NYer
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To: netmilsmom; thefrankbaum; markomalley; Tax-chick; GregB; saradippity; Berlin_Freeper; Litany; ...

Ping!


2 posted on 07/22/2010 5:57:54 AM PDT by NYer ("God dwells in our midst, in the Blessed Sacrament of the altar." St. Maximilian Kolbe)
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To: NYer

CCD: Catholic Civil Defense. :)


3 posted on 07/22/2010 5:58:48 AM PDT by RexBeach ("Duty is ours; consequences are God's." Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson)
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To: NYer

When I was on the education committee of the Lib church I left, the DRE told me that she wasn’t interested in teaching the Catechism because she just wanted the kids to have a “good experience”.

I told her that these parents had a “good experience” and because of that, know NOTHING about being Catholic. Those parents pay us 90.00 a year to teach the Catechism. She didn’t want to hear it.

Needless to say, I left.


4 posted on 07/22/2010 6:03:50 AM PDT by netmilsmom (I am inyenzi on the Religion Forum)
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To: NYer

Why the heck do these people bother teaching if they can’t be bothered knowing the doctrines? Honestly, THIS is the stuff that makes my head explode.

I am a sinner with a very sordid past that was primarily rooted in my ignorance of my faith. Sine I have rediscovered my faith, I am in love with it & want to know more. I have vowed not to let the same thing happen to my own child. I do not trust these DREs at churches to actaully arm my little gilr with the knowledge she needs to be a good soldier for Christ. I am gonna do it myself.


5 posted on 07/22/2010 6:18:29 AM PDT by surroundedbyblue
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To: NYer

The way these teachers “teach” the Catholic Faith is just an example of the way other subjects are “taught” as well: people who don’t know the subject and don’t care about the subject, putting in their time with as little effort as possible.


6 posted on 07/22/2010 6:24:52 AM PDT by Tax-chick ("I hate other cultures. Everyone is rude and they never wash or use deodorant."~Anoreth)
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To: netmilsmom
That was my experience, as well. The Instructor's Manual handed to me said to bring the following items on the first night of class: boom box, mood music, pillar candles, a large rock, small smooth stones (one for each student), news print, markers, scissors .... and at the bottom of the list was the Bible. I brought my rosary, the prayer to St. Michael (one copy for each student) and the Bible. I left the parish the following year.
7 posted on 07/22/2010 6:28:39 AM PDT by NYer ("God dwells in our midst, in the Blessed Sacrament of the altar." St. Maximilian Kolbe)
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To: NYer

Unfortunately, this is all TOO common. This is why, if possible, we should find those who are committed Catholics and meet regularly to pray for our parishes. This is especially important in the worst parishes. Prayer IS powerful and will eventually work wonders. Those who are committed to such prayer should also get involved in the various ministries of that same parish as led by the Holy Spirit. What God can do with even one person is pretty amazing. ;-))

Example: Influence the Women’s Club (substitute any group) to sponsor a seminar of Fr. John Corapi ...or inivte GOOD speakers, etc.

It takes time, faith and patience....but change WILL come.


8 posted on 07/22/2010 6:40:37 AM PDT by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo...Sum Pro Vita. (Modified Decartes))
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To: Tax-chick

So true! See the tagline:


9 posted on 07/22/2010 6:51:59 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (God has set limits on man’s intelligence, none on his stupidity.)
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To: NYer

>>I brought my rosary, the prayer to St. Michael (one copy for each student) and the Bible.<<

Did the DRE recoil from you, vomit and smoke? XD


10 posted on 07/22/2010 6:54:55 AM PDT by netmilsmom (I am inyenzi on the Religion Forum)
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To: SumProVita

Honestly, you don’t have to sit in the worst parishes.
I can’t tell you the amount of people who have “spoken with their wallets” and left that parish. Running, not walking to the one I’m in now.

We pray for that parish, A LOT. For five years (as directed by my current pastor) I continued to wash altar linens for them every January. Two years ago, I walked into the main and Low and Behold! a large crucifix hung behind the altar! This was a huge step for this parish.

Take your money to a good parish. Direct your prays at the old one.


11 posted on 07/22/2010 7:00:21 AM PDT by netmilsmom (I am inyenzi on the Religion Forum)
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To: SumProVita

Ooops, prays=prayers


12 posted on 07/22/2010 7:01:22 AM PDT by netmilsmom (I am inyenzi on the Religion Forum)
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To: surroundedbyblue

Get her these books

http://www.catholiccompany.com/faith-and-life-series-c1087/

They are the best. How do I know? We use them, Seton Homeschool uses them and the liberal parishes hate them.

Actual CCC references and the whole lot.
The really good thing about them is, they progress by age but not by subject. The same thing is taught every year. When my 5th grader is learning about the Eucharist, my 7th grader is learning the same thing, only with more information appropriate to her age. I love them.


13 posted on 07/22/2010 7:07:52 AM PDT by netmilsmom (I am inyenzi on the Religion Forum)
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To: netmilsmom

Wow! Thanks so much! I’m sitting at work bored today so I will order them right now.

The one curriculum that I do have (the Who Am I thing) also builds on the same subject year after year for three years.

Thanks for this info.


14 posted on 07/22/2010 7:09:55 AM PDT by surroundedbyblue
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Good tagline - except you need to type, instead of copy/paste the apostrophe.


15 posted on 07/22/2010 7:10:41 AM PDT by Tax-chick ("I hate other cultures. Everyone is rude and they never wash or use deodorant."~Anoreth)
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To: NYer
That was my experience, as well. The Instructor's Manual handed to me said to bring the following items on the first night of class: boom box, mood music, pillar candles, a large rock, small smooth stones (one for each student), news print, markers, scissors .... and at the bottom of the list was the Bible. I brought my rosary, the prayer to St. Michael (one copy for each student) and the Bible. I left the parish the following year.

**************************

That would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

16 posted on 07/22/2010 7:10:58 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: NYer
A generation of uncatechized faithful over the past thirty-years has drifted throughout their Catholic life not knowing the graces they received through their Baptism.

I'd say two generations, going on three. And though I winced at the grammatical errors in this article, "drifted" is a very good way of describing the effect of the titanic spiritual battle which is being fought every minute of every day.

Our battle is against the evil one who wants the death of both the soul and the body. One way to achieve that goal is to ensure that the soul will only see darkly as it drifts; concerned only with the material, never lifting the eyes to what is beyond this life. Like St. Augustine said, the searching soul is restless until it rests in God, but what of the soul who doesn't know enough to search?

We must pray for our fellow members of the mystical body, pray fervently for them that they will receive the graces necessary for a radical conversion, no less radical than St. Paul's. I don't think many pray enough for the salvation of others; not only those they know and love, but for those they don't know, but are part of the same body.

17 posted on 07/22/2010 7:11:13 AM PDT by Lorica
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To: surroundedbyblue

No problem at all!


18 posted on 07/22/2010 7:11:55 AM PDT by netmilsmom (I am inyenzi on the Religion Forum)
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To: Lorica

St. Monica Pray for us.


19 posted on 07/22/2010 7:14:15 AM PDT by netmilsmom (I am inyenzi on the Religion Forum)
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To: Tax-chick; Anoreth

ROFL at Anoreth’s comment on “other cultures” ...


20 posted on 07/22/2010 7:14:46 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: netmilsmom

If you are certain that his is what God calls you to....that is good.

Money can ALWAYS be donated as led by the Spirit too. We often donated money to specific ministries within and/or outside of the parish.

Some people who live in rural areas have no real choice. Due to distance, there is only ONE parish to attend.


21 posted on 07/22/2010 7:15:56 AM PDT by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo...Sum Pro Vita. (Modified Decartes))
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To: NYer

Well, the Catechism is certainly in my classroom.


22 posted on 07/22/2010 7:18:06 AM PDT by Shark24
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To: Lorica

So there is a man that I’ve been kind of dating for a year now. He’s a fallen away Catholic. We have had our ups & downs but despite that, I have always been inexplicably drawn to him. I have been praying hard every day that he finds his way back to the Church; I care for him & can’t bear the thought of him spending eternity in Hell. I don’t know what else to do. I tread lightly with him about this because I’m afraid of alienating him totally if I’m too forward. He has the potential to be a very good person I think but has really lost his way & I blame his ignorance of the faith for that. Can you all whisper a quick prayer for him, too? Thanks


23 posted on 07/22/2010 7:20:41 AM PDT by surroundedbyblue
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To: ArrogantBustard

You’re not on the Seaman Anoreth ping list, so you’ve missed the details of her multicultural experiences in the Western Pacific. “Your economy sucks. Would you like some Thomas Sowell books? My mom will buy me new ones.”


24 posted on 07/22/2010 7:25:57 AM PDT by Tax-chick ("I hate other cultures. Everyone is rude and they never wash or use deodorant."~Anoreth)
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To: surroundedbyblue

Consider him added to my prayer list. I’ll pray for you too, that you would receive from the Holy Spirit the wisdom to have just the right words when it is just the right time. God bless you.


25 posted on 07/22/2010 7:27:24 AM PDT by Lorica
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To: SumProVita

>>Some people who live in rural areas have no real choice. Due to distance, there is only ONE parish to attend.<<

Very true. But being stuck is different from making that choice.

>>If you are certain that his is what God calls you to....that is good.<<

Let me tell you about a neighbor of mine who thought that God was calling her to stick it out. She is the most spiritual person I know. We were at the liberal parish together. She taught “faith formation”, getting in as much of the actual Catechism as they would allow. She tried to start leading the Rosary before Mass and watched the entire staff of the church walk out on her constantly. (returning at the start of mass). The Pastor of that lib parish begged her to find out how to get vocations and when she came to the Pastor at our (very traditional) parish, he told her to change the “faith formation” back to teaching the Catechism, stress confession, start benediction and PRAY (we have a constant group of seminarians, always around 9 or 10). Taking that information back to the Pastor, he got visibly angry and dismissed her. He then cut the Rosary and would not speak to her again. That was the last straw for her. She is now at our traditional parish.

The Devil is in that parish. The only change that has come has been since many of us left and began praying for them. If they are cemented to the “Social Justice” angle, they will only bring the good Catholics down. Getting out is better for your soul.


26 posted on 07/22/2010 7:32:16 AM PDT by netmilsmom (I am inyenzi on the Religion Forum)
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To: netmilsmom

You are right. This is an excellent, orthodox resource and they have a lot available in Spanish. (Many Hispanics are being lured away from the Church out of ignorance.)


27 posted on 07/22/2010 7:33:08 AM PDT by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo...Sum Pro Vita. (Modified Decartes))
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To: Lorica

Thank you so very, very, much!!


28 posted on 07/22/2010 7:33:08 AM PDT by surroundedbyblue
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To: surroundedbyblue

Get a Green Scapular and place it under his mattress, pray to St. Monica for his conversion. Stay with what you are doing and don’t push him. Your prayers and actions are more powerful than your words.

That worked with my husband.


29 posted on 07/22/2010 7:35:23 AM PDT by netmilsmom (I am inyenzi on the Religion Forum)
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To: netmilsmom

I understand and I was speaking in general. I think that often, good opportunities are lost because people see the situation as too difficult. This is also why it is important to have a good spiritual director. Correct discernment is essential. ;-)


30 posted on 07/22/2010 7:36:15 AM PDT by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo...Sum Pro Vita. (Modified Decartes))
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To: Tax-chick
Heh ...

Our economy sucks right here in America.

A lot of folks could benefit from reading Thomas Sowell books ...

31 posted on 07/22/2010 7:37:38 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: ArrogantBustard

I think nobody should be allowed to vote without reading at least five Thomas Sowell books.


32 posted on 07/22/2010 7:38:35 AM PDT by Tax-chick ("I hate other cultures. Everyone is rude and they never wash or use deodorant."~Anoreth)
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To: SumProVita

The Spanish parish in our area uses them too!
That is the only other parish I would consider going to.
If I can follow the NO in Latin and Polish, I can follow it in Spanish. And they have a liturgy free of innovation!


33 posted on 07/22/2010 7:41:07 AM PDT by netmilsmom (I am inyenzi on the Religion Forum)
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To: SumProVita

Amen!


34 posted on 07/22/2010 7:41:49 AM PDT by netmilsmom (I am inyenzi on the Religion Forum)
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To: surroundedbyblue; Lorica
So there is a man that I’ve been kind of dating for a year now. He’s a fallen away Catholic. We have had our ups & downs but despite that, I have always been inexplicably drawn to him. I have been praying hard every day that he finds his way back to the Church; I care for him & can’t bear the thought of him spending eternity in Hell.

It was because of similar feelings that I eventually married my husband. I loved him and truly believed that my faith was strong enough for us both. If you want to gain insight into someone's upbringing, meet the parents. I only wish someone had given me these words of advice when I was dating my husband. The family was not religious and they considered my sincere faith to be quaint and naive. The marriage did not last.

35 posted on 07/22/2010 8:00:06 AM PDT by NYer ("God dwells in our midst, in the Blessed Sacrament of the altar." St. Maximilian Kolbe)
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To: netmilsmom
Did the DRE recoil from you, vomit and smoke?

On the contrary, she popped her head into my class on week 3, and asked for "volunteers to perform a liturgical dance". My jaw dropped! I believe you already know how that story played out. If not, I'll be happy to repost it.

36 posted on 07/22/2010 8:04:28 AM PDT by NYer ("God dwells in our midst, in the Blessed Sacrament of the altar." St. Maximilian Kolbe)
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To: surroundedbyblue; netmilsmom
The one curriculum that I do have (the Who Am I thing) also builds on the same subject year after year for three years.

Is that the Image of God series from Ignatius Press? That is what I use for the Pre-School / Kindergarten program. Mom, does Catholic Company have a similar Pre-K program? I need to find a new one for this year.

37 posted on 07/22/2010 8:11:04 AM PDT by NYer ("God dwells in our midst, in the Blessed Sacrament of the altar." St. Maximilian Kolbe)
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To: All; NYer; narses

Check my profile page. I’ve put the links for apologetics, and the Beginning Catholic series as well as the Imitation of Christ series on it.

Now I feel the nudge to put a Catechism that NYer posted on there too.

Did we ever get the complete Baltimore Catechism put online here? narses started it at one time, but I’m unsure about the extent of it.


38 posted on 07/22/2010 8:13:12 AM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: NYer

Yes that is the one I am using.


39 posted on 07/22/2010 8:16:33 AM PDT by surroundedbyblue
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To: NYer

I am sorry about your marriage.

His family lives in Atlanta (we are in Pittsburgh. He’s a surgiacl resident & I met him at work) so I haven’t met his parents BUT they immigrated here (legally) in 1980 from Nicaragua due to the civil war there. They apparently devoutly Catholic & his mother went to HS here at some convent. It’s funny because his mom & dad sound very faithful (as do his Hispanic aunts) but he & his 3 siblings have fallen away. He’s the youngest of 4 & tells me that none of his siblings are practicing Catholics. It breaks my heart to here this. He said the Mass is a “waste of his time” because he gets more out of watching an hour of TV & that he only goes to Mass on Christmas & Easter out of respect for his mother. Ugh.

I will stay the course & pray for him. Thanks everyone for your advice & words of encouragement & prayers.


40 posted on 07/22/2010 8:23:26 AM PDT by surroundedbyblue
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To: NYer

Our elementary catechism (at the NO parish) is a mix — there definitely are crafts (appropriate for the little ones) but also emphasis on prayers such as St. Michael’s and the making of rosaries. Have never heard any inappropriate music. So we are still comfortable with the RE there, even though I personally won’t attend the NO Mass.


41 posted on 07/22/2010 8:29:50 AM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by nature, not nurture)
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To: Tax-chick

Thanks -— apostrope’s’es is such aggravatin’ li’l buggers.


42 posted on 07/22/2010 9:36:20 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (God has set limits on man's intelligence, none on his stupidity.)
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To: NYer

>>If not, I’ll be happy to repost it. <<

I do! But you need to repost it so everyone can see.


43 posted on 07/22/2010 10:07:43 AM PDT by netmilsmom (I am inyenzi on the Religion Forum)
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To: trisham
I quit teaching for this reason as well. Some of these DRE's are just dreadful. Some don't seem to know they don't know the faith either.

I am in a new state, the new parish needs a DRE, I am semi qualified, but....but terrified of applying. It's so draining trying to fight 40 years of ignorance.

44 posted on 07/22/2010 10:09:07 AM PDT by defconw (In memory of Bahbah, May she rest in eternal peace.)
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To: NYer

They don’t have K or Pre-K.
Our parish takes the 1st grade book and adapts it.


45 posted on 07/22/2010 10:09:54 AM PDT by netmilsmom (I am inyenzi on the Religion Forum)
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To: Tax-chick; NYer
. . . people who don’t know the subject and don’t care about the subject, putting in their time with as little effort as possible.

That is true of ANY situation where you have volunteers.

But it's most dangerous in a religious instruction context. If an adjunct professor teaching legal research and writing to 1st year law students blows off the hard work and doesn't teach the kids, because all she wants is something to put on her resume (as far too many of my fellow adjuncts did), the kids will get shortchanged (and cheated out of something they've paid good money for) -- but at least she won't be endangering their souls.

I guess the Church is paying for 40 years of unbelievably bad catechesis. Now those shortchanged kids are teaching the kids.

46 posted on 07/22/2010 10:50:09 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: Tax-chick
Is that about your daughter. Please put me on The Seaman Anoreth ping list. The Lord is showing me how powerful and important everyday pray matters. I have been taken to a place of pray that's so beautiful. So necessary.

My Mother Prayed for My Brother during the Vietnam war. He was a marine. When He came back. He was scratching his head telling my mother. How come when called to go to mainland from the south china sea. He was always passed over. Well she told him. She prayed the bible in one hand and the Rosary in the other that he never would kill or be killed. He never was. He became a deacon of the church. What he learned was radio communications which was very important for info going back and fro. He later became a ATT executive. So In the Holy Spirit be my pleasure to pray for her.

47 posted on 07/22/2010 12:17:20 PM PDT by johngrace (God so loved the world so he gave his only son! Praise Jesus and Hail Mary!)
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To: AnAmericanMother
That is true of ANY situation where you have volunteers.

I see it more with "professionals." Everyone I've known teaching at church or working with Scouts has been doing their best.

The *big problem* with RE, in my opinion, is that parents are half-hearted about their faith. I suppose getting the children to a class, most of the time, is *something*, but it's not much.

48 posted on 07/22/2010 1:43:06 PM PDT by Tax-chick ("I hate other cultures. Everyone is rude and they never wash or use deodorant."~Anoreth)
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To: johngrace

Thank you very much! My father was in Vietnam for two years, and in the Navy for 27 years.

“Seaman Anoreth” is my daughter. She’s 19 years old and in the Coast Guard; it’s been a little over a year since she enlisted. She’s on a cutter based in Seattle, but they’ve been in the Western Pacific since April and she reports about the countries they visit. Practicing her travel journalism skills for a future career, maybe. The ping list is low-intensity. Sometimes there will be three messages in a day, if she’s online, and sometimes two or three weeks will pass when they’re at sea and can’t email.

My husband has pinkeye again, but none of the rest of the family has come down with it, so I’m sure your prayers are doing something for us!


49 posted on 07/22/2010 1:46:33 PM PDT by Tax-chick ("I hate other cultures. Everyone is rude and they never wash or use deodorant."~Anoreth)
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To: NYer

read later


50 posted on 07/22/2010 2:05:13 PM PDT by don-o (Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.)
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