Skip to comments.Israel, Iran, and the Ishmaelites
Posted on 07/28/2010 2:06:08 PM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta
As Irans nuclear development program nears completion, the rogue state draws dangerously close to possessing sufficient military power to control the OPEC Oil Cartel and the Islamic Crescent. Irans apparent quest to obtain overwhelming power in the Mideast region justifiably concerns Saudi King Abdullah Bin Abdulaziz, who has recently ratcheted up his support for the destruction of Irans nuclear sites and implementation of his Saudi Mideast Peace Initiative of 2002. King Abdullahs latest geo-political actions tell a timeline tale of sincere concerns the Middle East is about to go apocalyptic.
His present politicking evidences his fear that Irans nuclear aspirations are much more expansive than wiping Israel off the map, but also include forcing Sunni subservience of Shiite Islamic theology throughout the Fertile Crescent. Additionally, his haste to motivate Mideast peace seemingly demonstrates his awareness that Israel is preparing, pre-emptively or otherwise, to protect itself with Godspeed from all existential threats emanating out of Iran and/or its proxies, Hezbollah, Syria, and Hamas.
Listed below is a chronology of Abdullahs recent geo-political actions evidencing his concerns that a shift in the balance of Mideast power could be forthcoming:
June 12, 2010 - Saudi Arabia opens up a thin strip of strategic airspace to Israel for a potential strike against Irans nuclear site(s). This was an extraordinary out of character development considering Saudi Arabia doesnt even recognize Israels right to exist as the bonafide Jewish State. Both Saudi Arabia and Israel officially denied this airspace became available, but coincidentally about the same time the Saudi military conducted wide scale exercises intended to prevent friendly fire from striking Israeli bombers in the event they crossed Saudi airspace on route to attack Iran. In fact, it was reported about the same time Egypt independently conducted military exercises of a similar nature.
June 13, 2010 - The Israeli Air Force (IAF) reportedly landed aircraft in Tabuk, Northwest Saudi Arabia. Supposedly all Saudi commercial air traffic shut down at the time for the deployment of these Israeli aircrafts. Iran Fars News reported at the time that Israel intends to use Tabuk as a pre-emptive launch point to attack Irans nuclear sites. Interestingly, King Abdullah won't allow the existence of a Jewish synagogue anywhere in his kingdom, but now invites the IAF to deploy upon Saudi soil.
June 29, 2010 - Abdullah travels to Washington to discuss volatile Mideast events. Reportedly Obama enlisted Abdullahs support to end the AmericanAfghanistan war. Abdullah promised he could exert such influence in the region and, in turn, requested Obama's assurance that Israel would accept his Saudi peace plan of 2002.
Supposedly, Obama said he would force Israel, if need be, to accept this entirely Arab initiated peace proposal. This peace plan, among many things, calls for Israel to forfeit land acquired in the aftermath of their 1967 war victory, allow the return of millions of Palestinian Refugees, and afford the Palestinians a state of their own with East Jerusalem as its capital. For more information on the Saudi Peace initiative accepted by the Counsel of Arab States in Lebanon in 2002 (click here).
July 28, 2010 - King Abdullah is scheduled to visit Egypt. Egyptian President Mubarak, recently diagnosed with cancer, has recently been actively encouraging direct peace talks between Israel and the Palestinians. This is a significant meeting that starts a Mideast tour for the Saudi King. One of the expected goals of this meeting in Egypt is to pressure Palestinian President Abbas into engaging in direct peace talks with Benjamin Netanyahu. Abbas, has expressed serious reservations about direct talks without pre-conditions. Abbas wants Israel to freeze all settlement construction before he entertains any such talks.
July 29, 2010 Abdullah then travels to Syria to meet with Israels arch enemy, President Bashar Assad. The Saudi king hasnt paid a visit to Syria since 2002, the year the Saudi Peace Initiative was approved by the Counsel of Arab States. It appears at least one of the round table topics will be how Syria can reclaim title of the strategic Golan Heights, which is included within the stipulations of the Saudi Peace Initiative. Interestingly, Syria has bonafide war pacts in place with Iran and Hezbollah that came into being between 12/2009 and 2/2010. One can imagine these war-pacts are of serious concern to Abdullah who is vehemently opposed to Irans developing nuclear program. Additionally since 2004, Jordan's king Abdullah II has been warning of the formation of a coming Shiite Crescent through Iraq, Syria, and the Hezbollah of Lebanon.
July 30, 2010 - King Abdullah is slated to travel to Lebanon, which is another country he hasnt visited since the Saudi Peace Plan of 2002 was sanctioned there. He is scheduled to meet with Lebanese president Michel Suleiman who has publicly hinted in the past that his armed forces will support Hezbollah in the event of another IsraeliHezbollah conflict. Meanwhile, around July 8, 2010, Hezbollah reportedly deployed approximately 20,000 troops along the southern borders of Lebanon.
Current Middle East events are extremely alarming and observably King Abdullah appears to be gravely concerned. His proactive involvement in Mideast affairs underpins a sense of urgency and desperation. Abdullah has pulled his peace plan of 2002 out of the archives and is seriously promoting it in both Washington and the Middle East. It seems evident his enthusiasm to bring about Mideast peace is driven by selfish, secular, and spiritual motives.
Abdullah, the head of the house of Saud, has reigned over the largest and wealthiest Arab State since his half brother King Fahd had a major stroke in January of 1996. His Kingdom presently possesses the number #1 ranking in OPEC and one-quarter of the worlds oil reserves. Additionally, his country hosts Islams two most sacred holy sites located in Mecca and Medina.
He presides over an untold fortune driven by oil production and mandatory Muslim pilgrimages to Mecca. According to Bible prophecy Saudi Arabia will not dwell in this status quo condition indefinitely. Someday soon Saudi Arabia will be involved in Psalm 83 and subsequently burdened by Ezekiel 38 & 39. These are two distinctly different end times Israeli War prophecies that many eschatologists believe are soon and sequentially forthcoming.
Saudi Arabia appears in the climatic concluding ArabIsraeli War prophecy of Psalm 83 under the banner of the Ishmaelites. Ishmael was promised to father a nation in Genesis 17:20 and many bible scholars recognize him as the father of the Arabs and thus the predominant patriarch of the modern day Saudis.
Ezekiel 25:13-15 states the Saudis and several of their Psalm 83 Arab cohorts are defeated by the Israeli Defense Forces. Ezekiel alludes to the Saudis as Dedan, which was located in Northwestern Saudi Arabia in ancient times. Coincidentally the Tabuk airfield, presently hosting the Israeli aircrafts alluded to above, is relatively nearby ancient Dedan.
In the subsequent massive invasion of Israel described in Ezekiel 38 & 39 the Saudis lift their voice in apparent protest as a contingency from Dedan (Ezekiel 38:13). The Ezekiel invaders, inclusive of Russia, Iran, Turkey, Libya, Ethiopia and several others, form a coalition seeking to destroy Israel and capture plunder and great spoil. Due to Irans and Turkeys hatred of Israel, many end times experts believe Ezekiel 38 & 39 is about to find final fulfillment.
For some reason the Saudis, Yemenites, and a group of merchants from Tarshish, possibly parts of Europe and America, abstain from enjoining the Ezekiel confederacy. Some speculate that the Saudis along with the merchants seek to conduct international commerce with Israel and publicly protest the genocidal motives of the Ezekiel 38 invaders.
In conclusion, Saudi King Abdullahs present haste to create peace in the Middle East could be another indicator that the days of Mideast diplomacy are winding down and the Holy Land is about to go apocalyptic in fulfillment of Psalm 83 and Ezekiel 38 & 39.
I assume you’ve seen or will get to post 87 here:
Also an important read, imho.
A VERY IMPORTANT END TIMES
WAR WITH IRAN PING VIS A VIS SAUDIA ARABIA’S TANGIBLE MOVEMENTS IN SUPPORT OF ISRAEL ATTACKING IRAN:
PLEASE READ AND DISTRIBUTE.
LEVEL ONE PING
Time is indeed very short for decisions to be made about a person's eternal destiny.
And, like Jesus said, that the days before His return will be like the days of Noah - one day the Ark was shut and time ran out.
It will be the same with the Rapture of the Church. One day Christians will be gone, the judgment will begin, and there will be no turning back and no escape.
All we can do is keep warning and praying. Many will laugh and deny and ridicule, but many will not laugh; many will hear what Christ has said about the conditions in the world before He returns and will be saved as a result, and those are the people for whom we keep proclaiming the truth.
Here is an interesting tidbit.
Japanese ship hit in the Strait of Hormuz:
They are saying it was a rogue wave, but a shipmate claimed their had been a flash of light before being hit. It is from Reuters, so I think FR does not allow them to have individual threads.
AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!
I think I saw a thread on FR about it . . .
I think it had to be probing or attempts or not so dry runs or some such. . . .
It will be the same with the Rapture of the Church. One day Christians will be gone, the judgment will begin, and there will be no turning back and no escape. All we can do is keep warning and praying. Many will laugh and deny and ridicule, but many will not laugh; many will hear what Christ has said about the conditions in the world before He returns and will be saved as a result, and those are the people for whom we keep proclaiming the truth.
Amen, Giovanna! We do not know WHEN, but we DO know the rapture is going to BE. When the Church the Body of Christ is COMPLETE, it WILL be raptured. And the tribulation begins. Only God knows who the last member of the Body of Christ is, and when that person is saved, we're gone. Praise God!
"...behold, NOW is the accepted time; behold NOW is the day of salvation." (II Cor. 6:1,2).
When it's complete, it's complete. If people choose to ridicule and dismiss God's Word, it's their choice. But they have been warned. They can NEVER say they weren't told. Prayer and giving God's saving grace message is what we're called to do.
Thanks for the ping!
AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!
Revelation 20 clearly states the battle of Gog/Magog described in Ezekiel 28 & 29 occurs at the end of the Millennium. Thus, if one is a pre-millennialist this battle is a long way off, 1000 years after the return of Christ.
Correction: The battle of Gog/Magog in Ezekiel 38 & 39 (not 28&29 as I inadvertantly typed above.)
Isaiah 17 fits in here also at some time. What is the sequence of events between Psalm 83, Isaiah 17, Ezekiel 38&39, Rapture?
After Psalm 83, Isaiah 17, and Ezekiel 38&39 I do believe Islam is history.
It's not clear at all that Revelation 20 is about the Ezekiel 38 and 39 war. Quite the opposite, in fact. By the time Revelation 20 comes around, all battles and wars are finished, the wicked are being judged, and Satan is bound for a thousand years.
Also, Scripture says:
Then those who live in the towns of Israel will go out and use the weapons for fuel and burn them up-the small and large shields, the bows and arrows, the war clubs and spears. For seven years they will use them for fuel. They will not need to gather wood from the fields or cut it from the forests, because they will use the weapons for fuel. And they will plunder those who plundered them and loot those who looted them, declares the Sovereign LORD. (Ezekiel 38:9-10). There is nothing in Revelation that indicates that people will have a need for fuel - at that point in the Bible (after chapter 20), God talks about eternity and what eternity with Him will be like. Finding and needing fuel to burn fires will be a distant memory at that time.
There is no evidence at all that Revelation 20 is about the Ezekiel 38 and 39 war.
And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will come out to deceive the nations that are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea. Rev. 20:7-8
Son of man, set your face toward Gog, of the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him 3 and say, Thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I am against you, O Gog, chief prince of Meshech and Tubal. 4 And I will turn you about and put hooks into your jaws, and I will bring you out, and all your army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed in full armor, a great host, all of them with buckler and shield, wielding swords. 5 Persia, Cush, and Put are with them, all of them with shield and helmet; 6 Gomer and all his hordes; Beth-togarmah from the uttermost parts of the north with all his hordesmany peoples are with you. 7 Be ready and keep ready, you and all your hosts that are assembled about you, and be a guard for them. Ezkiel 38:2-7
Sounds like the same war to me. No reason at all to believe Israel will fight two major wars involving God of Magog and all the other great nations. I'm convinced it's the same war being prophecied about. Especially seeing as how Revelation reiterates several of the prophecies of Ezekiel. In fact, most every prophecy in Revelation mirrors a prophecy of the OT prophets, primarily the Major Prophets.
The first major difference is that Ezekiels invaders are said to be from specific countries, thus not all the nations of the world. At Armageddon, the Lord will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle (Zech. 14:2). Thus, the Gog event is a regional invasion while Armageddon involves all the nations of the world coming against Jerusalem. That is a significant difference. Second, Arnold Fruchtenbaum notes, the Ezekiel invasion comes from the north, but the Armageddon invasion comes from the whole earth.
Third, the Gog invasion is clearly said to occur at a time when Israel is living securely (Ezek. 38:8, 11, 14) and at rest (38:11) in the land. There will probably not be a more threatening and dangerous time for Israel in her entire history than the end of the tribulation and the events of Armageddon. This hardly matches Ezekiels description.
Fourth, Mark Hitchcock points out, the passage in Ezekiel does not mention a military battle other than the fact that the invaders kill one another. The destruction is primarily by divine intervention through a convulsion of nature (Ezek. 38:2023). In the conflagration of Armageddon, there is a great battle fought between the Lord with his hosts and the assembled nations in which the King of kings slays his enemies with the word of his mouth and emerges as the victor (Rev. 19:1115).4 In other words, each passage describes contrasting events that indicate they are totally different campaigns.
Fifth, the purpose of the Russian invasion is to take spoil; the purpose of the Armageddon Campaign is to destroy all the Jews, observes Fruchtenbaum. Sixth, he continues, in the Ezekiel invasion, there is a protest against the invasion; in the Armageddon Campaign, there is no protest because all the nations are involved.
Seventh, if these two campaigns are one and the same then there is not any time for Israel to bury the dead (7 months) or burn the instruments of war (7 years) (Ezek. 39:9,12). Scripture implies that seventy-five days after Christs return, the thousand-year kingdom will commence and that it will began after a cleansing of the judgment from the tribulation (Isa. 2:14; 65:1725; Dan. 12:1112). Seventh, Ron Rhodes observes another difference between the two battles as follows: At Armageddon the Beast is the head of the invasion campaign (Revelation19:19), whereas Gog is the head of the invading force in Ezekiels prophecy (Ezekiel38:7).
Eight, The armies gathered at Armageddon array themselves against Jesus Christ (Revelation 19:19), which is not true of Ezekiels northern military coalition.
The more one contemplates the differences between the two events the more one realizes that they cannot be the same. The details of the two events just do not matchup. This is likely why virtually no evangelicals today favor this view. Most of the supporters of the timing of Ezekiel 38 and 3 are primarily from the past.
The Ezekiel war is not the same war as Armageddon or the rebellion that Satan foments after his brief release from Hell.
You go from saying there is “no evidence” they are the same battle to cutting and pasting a two page excert from a wildly discredited Thomas Ice article which attempts to rebut the plethora of evidence. I’m not impressed.
As far as "copying and pasting", that's what many, many people do on this forum. Next time I'll just provide the link.
"Discredited"? LOL!! "Discredited" by who? The same people who can't provide Scripture to validate their claim that the Ezekiel war, which could not be more specific in detailing the conditions surrounding this war and the nations which will be involved, and the fate that befalls those nations, is the same war as either Armageddon or Satan's little fling right before the Millennial Kingdom begins? Those people? How can discredited people discredit anything?
Talk about being unimpressed. Those who attempt to substitute opinion for Scripture have absolutely zero credibility and are among the most unimpressive people around.
Sort of like those who plagerize other authors on web posts without giving them credit?
Did you not see the link?????
Actually, I take back that last post. There was a link in your post (dead now) that I assume was a link to the Ice article. My bad.
It gives you an option to go to the same article in plain HTML.
Good info on Gog Magog