Skip to comments.Radio Replies Second Volume - The Teaching Authority of the Catholic Church
Posted on 08/01/2010 12:55:17 AM PDT by GonzoII
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“Britain and Brits had been there before and had been Catholic before it broke free from the power of the Roman empire,”
Incorrect. 1) ancient Britain never broke free of the Roman Empire. The Romans left - much to the regret of the Britains who wanted and needed their protection. 2) the Angles, Saxons and Jutes then invaded.
“America was the first and only time that Catholicism was totally left out of the creation of a new nation,”
False. Great Britain was created first and was Protestant.
“...it bordered of course on a nation that had the more traditional Catholic background, Mexico.”
And Canada. And there had already been Catholic settlers even in the 13 colonies.
I’m not talking about when the paper was signed, those people had been Catholic before they became Protestant, that was not the situation in America, and when I said the Roman empire, I was speaking of the Roman church that exists today.
“Im not talking about when the paper was signed, those people had been Catholic before they became Protestant,”
People, yes. Nation, no. Great Britain was never anything but a Protestant nation since it was founded by a Protestant monarch and Protestant parliament. You were wrong.
“that was not the situation in America, and when I said the Roman empire, I was speaking of the Roman church that exists today.”
Then you are wrong again. An empire is not a Church nor is a Church an empire. The Roman Empire and Catholic Church existed simultaneously but were under different leadership and had largely different concerns. Anyone who confuses the two - deliberately - is either ignorant or a bigot or both. There are no alternatives. You are proving that you need to read more history.
What Ansel12 is apparently asserting is that the United States of America is the greatest nation in history because of it being Protestant from the beginning without Catholic influence.
Does that mean to ascertain exactly how great the US is we need to cut out any parts of the US that were previously colonized by Catholics and weed out any particular Catholics who contributed to the success of this nation? Not much left if we do that though.
Of course we have to take away French support of the Revolutionary War also. “Lafayette, we aren’t here”? DC would look pretty weird too.
It would be nice to figure out how to get Catholics to become pro-American conservatives instead of them being liberals.
One way would be to stop infecting them with Protestantism since Protestantism is one of the causes of Liberalism.
That is a nasty way to lash out, but the left exists because of the Catholic vote, for instance Obama.
The Protestant vote is about the only thing that conservatism has going for it, if we can convert Senator Kennedy’s Catholic illegals to Protestantism they will even start voting Republican.
“That is a nasty way to lash out, but the left exists because of the Catholic vote, for instance Obama.”
The Left exists because of the materialist ideals fostered by Protestantism. Now it infects even Catholics.
“The Protestant vote is about the only thing that conservatism has going for it, if we can convert Senator Kennedys Catholic illegals to Protestantism they will even start voting Republican.”
If they are illegal, they won’t be voting. What Protestants should do is defeat liberalism in their own ranks - too bad that they can’t. We struggle with that too.
Sorry friend, but the Protestant vote is conservative, the Catholic vote has always been liberal, if anything, they are sometimes joining the Protestant vote in recent decades, mostly during a reelection after first voting against the Republican, but it is a start.
Even Protestant Hispanics are voting to the right of Catholics.
It would be nice to figure out how to get Catholics to become Catholics.
I’m on my phone right now so typing is a bit of a nightmare for the next three hours or so.
That goes for everyone, but there is a central command for Catholics and after a lifetime of looking at the situation, many people come to the conclusion that Catholics are voting the way that central command approves of, or else the last hundred years of American history would not look as it does and we surely would never have rewritten our immigration laws in 1965 to replace ourselves with exotic, third world foreigners.
“Sorry friend, but the Protestant vote is conservative,”
Part of it is. Part of it is liberal.
“the Catholic vote has always been liberal,”
“if anything, they are sometimes joining the Protestant vote in recent decades, mostly during a reelection after first voting against the Republican, but it is a start.”
Wrong again. It is not that the Catholic vote has joined the Protestant vote since the Protestant vote is not monolithic, but rather that the Democrats have become more liberal and lost some of their supporters while picking up others. These shifts happen all the time in politics.
“Even Protestant Hispanics are voting to the right of Catholics.”
Nope. Some are voting more conservatively than some Catholics. Others are not.
Everyone knows that Catholic Hispanics vote almost 70% Democrat, but very few people know that Protestant Hispanics voted 56% Republican in 2004 and 48% Republican in 2008 (Catholics overall went 54% Obama), they are voting to the right of the overall Catholic vote.
And yes, the Catholic vote has always been pretty dependable for the left, in other words, if Catholics quit voting so pro-democrat they would not be winning those elections like 1940, and 1944, and 1948, and 1960 and so on, including Obama who did not win the Protestant vote of course. America would be a totally different nation, unimaginably different without the Democrat victories of those nightmarish and destructive years.
There are millions of Protestants who voted for Obama. To say, “The left almost never gets the Protestant vote, and the right almost never gets the Catholic vote” is incredibly ignorant. Neither the left nor the right gets all of the votes of all Catholics or Protestants. You do realize that, right?
Maybe he means “good Protestants” don’t vote for democrats?
No what he means is that the majority of a voting block goes for a particular party, not all of any voting block goes 100% and we shouldn’t have to waste time pointing that out.
Wouldn’t it be nice if the majority of Catholics voted like the majority of Protestants.
Conservative Catholics need to learn what is going with Catholics and liberalism, and fix it, it would have been nice if Obama had not been elected, at least that is my view.
Byzantium, the Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation, Renaissance Italy were all great nations much like the United States came to be politically, survived for much longer that the United States has so far done, and gave the world the cultural treasure beyond comparison to the post-reformation cultural decadence that passes for modern culture. All these were institutionally Catholic.
The United States is a great country. As one Catholic thinker, G.K. Chesterton, described it, we are a nation with a soul of the Church. It is true that it was founded and at the time populated largely by Protestants. In great part the American success is due to the fact that the founding fathers expressly avoided the peril of one Protestant sect dominating it, or even Protestatism as a whole dominating it. It is also true that over time America became more Catholic, and now we see disintegration of Protestatism and ascendance of Catholicism as the only consistent voice in defense of human dignity, right to life, right to practice religion publicly, and right to local governance. Funny how things turn around.
“Wouldnt it be nice if the majority of Catholics voted like the majority of Protestants.”
I would rather that Catholics vote as Catholics should. I do not always assume that that means however Protestants vote in whatever election.
“Conservative Catholics need to learn what is going with Catholics and liberalism, and fix it, it would have been nice if Obama had not been elected, at least that is my view.”
Conservative Catholics have always known what is going on Catholics and liberalism. And it can’t be “fixed”. If it were something that could just be fixed, then Protestants would have healed themselves of it ages ago since it came from them in the first place. This is a problem ingrained in culture and it would be “fixed”. It will take a spiritual movement that only God can make happen. All we can do is support that. We cannot make it happen.
I thought so, it is clear that politics and conservatism do not interest you much, America and conservatism do not rank high with you.
“I thought so, it is clear that politics and conservatism do not interest you much, America and conservatism do not rank high with you.”
Actually they do. God and my soul and the souls of others rank first. America and conservatism are also important but I freely admit that I do not confuse either one with Protestantism. You apparently do. You seem to be confused about much - especially if you do not put God and souls first.