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False Confidence in Law....Romans 2
08-04-10 | Bill Randles

Posted on 08/04/2010 1:04:31 PM PDT by pastorbillrandles

The False Confidence in Law…Romans 2

For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. (Romans 2:28-29)

Paul has been discussing the righteous judgment of God, warning those who “rest in the Law” that knowing and even prizing the law does not exempt one from judgment according to truth. This could apply as well to those raised in the christian milieu.

Neither baptism, nor circumcision can save us from the wrath of God, in fact they are meaningless unless the spiritual reality they point to is evident in the lives of those who claim it.

Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law; And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.(Romans 2:17-20)

Paul examines the psychology of self-delusion by which the religionist imagines he will escape the judgment of God.

*“You rest in the Law”- means that just by virtue of the fact that being a Jew (or a ‘christian’) gives one a higher moral sense than the rest of the world, they ‘rest’, concerning judgment.

*“You make your boast of God”- is akin to Jesus’ parable of the Pharisee and the publican,

And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.(Luke 18:9-14)

Note the contrast between the boastful Pharisee, bearing the very false confidence Paul is warning about here, and the sinful publican smiting his breast(The heart is the very seat of sin) out of a bitter sense of distance from God.

*”You know His will”- The Law is a Revelation of God, it does teach the will of God. But rather than a source of self-confidence, the law should engender utter humility,and the fear of God. The Law should turn men to God,to seek cleansing and redemption.

*”You are confident that you are a guide…a light…an instructor…”- Those who have been given the Word of God should be teachers and guides, but not in false confidence and pride. The complacency he is warning the religious of, is utterly damning.

Who is it that really “gets ” the message of the Law of God? Knowledge of the Law and stewardship of it is an incredible privilege and enriching to any people. No wonder the psalmist burst out into exultation,“O how I Love thy Law, it is my meditation day and night!” (Psalm 119)

But the responsibility that comes with such privilege is sobering. Man will not be judged by what he doesn’t know, only by what he does know. To whom much is given much is required. Those who have been blessed by the Word of God, and access to it, have a heavy accounting coming.

For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;(Romans 2:12)

Paul is in continuity ,not only with Jesus but with the warnings of all of the prophets of God to the people of the Word. Isaiah prophesied the true response to the knowledge of the Word of God, as opposed to the busy, empty, self-confident religiousity of the Israel of His day. Note his description of true Piety,

Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me?… For all those things hath mine hand-made, and all those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog’s neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine’s blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.(Isaiah 66:1-4)

The real understanding of the Law, brings brokenness, self-doubt, utter filial fear of God, willingness to be humble, contrition( sorrow for sin), total love and devotion for forgiveness and redemption. This is saving Faith, approved of the Holy Spirit!

Busy, presumptuous religion, going about “building a house for God”(Look at what we are doing for God!), offering sacrifices as ritual, but with no real response to God, no listening and seeking to please God…”When I called no one answered”, this is religion which is rejected and disapproved.


TOPICS: General Discusssion; History; Moral Issues; Theology
KEYWORDS: israel; jesus; moses; paul
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1 posted on 08/04/2010 1:04:33 PM PDT by pastorbillrandles
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To: pastorbillrandles
Ignorance is no excuse for the law. It does not matter whether you knows that law and breaks it or doe not know that law an break it. It does not even matter if you really, really tried to keep the law and brake it. By the law no flesh will be justified. The true Jew is the one that believes that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God. If you read all of Chapter Three you would find these words: None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.

We are saved by the work of Christ, not by our works. The law can only kill, but the Spirit makes alive. No one is going to be accounted righteous by trying to keep the law.

2 posted on 08/04/2010 3:13:51 PM PDT by Nosterrex
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To: pastorbillrandles
The law can not save one from God's judgment.
Also, as some would say " that saved by Grace does not give one license to sin "
I would say to those who live by the law and scorn those who live and are saved by Grace and say that Grace does not give us license to sin,,, how has set you up to be judge ?
Jesus saves period....
Those who judge others who live by Grace, do you sin ? you point out how others sin, but, do you sin ?
Of course you do, but, you don't want others to see your own unrighteiousness cloaked in your own self righteiousness.
Galatians 3

1O. foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2. This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3. Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
4. Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
5. He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
6. Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7. Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
10. For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
13. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14. That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
15. Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.
16. Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
17. And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
18. For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
19. Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
20. Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
21 . Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.



Being saved, and living a good and moral life is what God's will is in every Christian's life, but, the law still can not save you.
3 posted on 08/04/2010 11:00:08 PM PDT by American Constitutionalist (There the way the Communist/Marxist want to destroy the USAis no civility in)
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To: pastorbillrandles
The real understanding of the Law, brings brokenness, self-doubt, utter filial fear of God, willingness to be humble, contrition( sorrow for sin), total love and devotion for forgiveness and redemption.

I like what you wrote there. I would add the following. The law, as David says in the longest chapter in the Bible is a delight. David uses 176 verses to tell us how much he loves the Law. Clearly it is not a curse to David as it is to Paul. The law was never meant to be a "saving tool" in and of itself for us. It is a means of serving the G-d of the universe, out of love. It is the blueprint for humanity to engage with the Creator of the universe. It is a means of elevating everyday, even mundane phusical things, to the spiritual. Even the simple act of washing your hands is an opportunity to worship G-d and thank him. Is that a curse? I suppose if ones motivation-priorities are out of whack, perhaps.

The law gives gives us an opportunity to elevate our relationship with G-d in numerous ways. When we perform the mitzvot, we are fulfilling G-ds will. And in the process, actively engaging in Tikkun Olam, repair of the world. When you love your neighbor as yourself, (Leviticus 19:18) that is making the world a better place. We are to following G-ds example; Deut 10: 18"He executes justice for the orphan and the widow, and shows His love for the alien by giving him food and clothing."

Jeremiah 22:3 'Thus says the LORD, " Do justice and righteousness, and deliver the one who has been robbed from the power of his oppressor Also do not mistreat or do violence to the stranger, the orphan, or the widow; and do not shed innocent blood......"

And of course the 10 mitzvot.

The other thing the law makes provision for, which is often overlooked is Teshuvah. G-d wants to forgive us when we sin (miss the mark)and bring us back into a relationship with him. Teshuvah is more than just repentance. It is repentance and "turning away from the sin" redoubling our efforts to never repeat the sin again. When this is done with a broken and contrite heart, G-d forgives and restores us. Teshuvah is a very holy act which spiritually is counted as a mitzvot.

We are constantly in a battle with our yetzer hara, our evil inclination. When we fight back with love, humbleness, prayer, repentance, charity, random acts of kindness, we are winning against the yetzer hara. It is a process, a life long process.

So certainly when the Law is done in a hypocritical, by rote or shallow way, G-ds sees that for what it is but it doesnt indict the Law. Many Christians struggle with hypocrisy as well. As you aluded to, the Prophet Jeremiah, Isaiah, Hosea etc had much to say about people who intentionally flout the Law. And how we can do it properly.

4 posted on 08/05/2010 2:42:33 PM PDT by blasater1960 ( Dt 30, Ps 111, The Torah is perfect, attainable, now and forever)
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To: American Constitutionalist
The law can not save one from God's judgment.

If one is doing the Law as intended, it certainly can. Did David go hell? Hezekiah? Moses? All the "OT" children of Israel? NO, they didnt go to hell. And if we follow David's example, neither will we. David was loved by G-d, considered a friend and a man after G-ds own heart. Was David under the Law or Grace? Actually, I would say we have always been under Grace. When God forgives sin under the Law, He is doing so by Grace. So that dispensation, if you will has always been a counterpart to the Law.

5 posted on 08/05/2010 2:53:03 PM PDT by blasater1960 ( Dt 30, Ps 111, The Torah is perfect, attainable, now and forever)
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To: blasater1960

Thanks Blasaster- I ‘m sorry i haven’t gotten back to you laely- i still intend to its just crazy busy lately-


6 posted on 08/05/2010 3:10:14 PM PDT by pastorbillrandles
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To: blasater1960

David certainly went to heaven, but not because of perfect Law keeping-By the Law he was worthy of death- Psalm 51”Purge me with Hyssop and I will be clean, wash me and I shall be whiter than snow..” he trusted in the cleansing blood -Psalm 32 - His sins were not imputed to Him, he believed in the coming Messiah-


7 posted on 08/05/2010 3:15:07 PM PDT by pastorbillrandles
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To: pastorbillrandles
David certainly went to heaven, but not because of perfect Law keeping

Exactly! He is the model of us all. Struggling with his sin like all of us.

he trusted in the cleansing blood

Actually he didnt, Funny you should pick Ps 51.

16 You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it; you do not take pleasure in burnt offerings.

17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise.

And keep in mind, regarding David's sins, he intentionally killed Uriah, did he not? Animal sacrifices were primarily for UNintentional sins. Only a handful of intential sins are covered by Animal sacrifice: cheating your neighbor, bearing false witness and a few others. Murder is not one of them. Shed blood could not atone for his murder. How did King David obtain forgiveness? By using the above scripture. He confessed his sin with a broken and contrite heart. The prophet Nathan said HaShem has heard you and has ALREADY FORGIVEN YOU. No blood sacrifice.

I agree that he was aware of the messianic promise, through Solomon his Son, he would have NO cause to believe that the Mashiach ben David would be a hybrid god-man and that this god-man would sacrifice himself as a vicarious human atonement. David would have reviled such a thought as G-d in the form of a man.

8 posted on 08/05/2010 8:21:19 PM PDT by blasater1960 ( Dt 30, Ps 111, The Torah is perfect, attainable, now and forever)
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To: pastorbillrandles

Thanks...no problem...pastors are busy people!


9 posted on 08/05/2010 8:25:00 PM PDT by blasater1960 ( Dt 30, Ps 111, The Torah is perfect, attainable, now and forever)
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To: blasater1960

“Wash me with Hyssop” is a direct reference to the blood of the Paschal lamb-


10 posted on 08/05/2010 9:44:37 PM PDT by pastorbillrandles
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To: pastorbillrandles
“Wash me with Hyssop” is a direct reference to the blood of the Paschal lamb-

Nah....couldnt be. A) The Paschal lamb had no atonement. There was no covering of sin or forgiveness of sin with the Paschal lamb, David knew that. The Paschal lamb was a sacrifice of the Egyptian idol and god, the lamb. And B) David would be referring to the cleansing water sprinkled from the hyssop branch. In Numbers 19

18 Then a man who is ceremonially clean is to take some hyssop, dip it in the water and sprinkle the tent and all the furnishings and the people who were there.....The person being cleansed must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and that evening he will be clean.

And David says: 7 Cleanse me with hyssop, and I will be clean; wash me, and I will be whiter than snow.

David is clearly refering to the sprinkling and purification process in Numbers 19.

11 posted on 08/05/2010 11:06:57 PM PDT by blasater1960 ( Dt 30, Ps 111, The Torah is perfect, attainable, now and forever)
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To: pastorbillrandles
Also, in Psalm 32.....

5 Then I acknowledged my sin to you and did not cover up my iniquity. I said, "I will confess my transgressions to the LORD "— and you forgave the guilt of my sin. Selah

Just like he did when he asked for forgiveness for killing Uriah. No Blood. No Sacrifice.

12 posted on 08/05/2010 11:13:23 PM PDT by blasater1960 ( Dt 30, Ps 111, The Torah is perfect, attainable, now and forever)
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To: blasater1960
Read what Paul says in Gal 2 ...
We live in the new convenient... go ahead and live by the law for your salvation, for me ? I trust in the LORD Jesus Christ and his blood for my salvation....
What do you think what the bible says when Jesus desended and took the capitives, captive ? GOD offered the Old Testiment saints salvation because they believed GOD by faith.
13 posted on 08/06/2010 3:38:33 AM PDT by American Constitutionalist (There the way the Communist/Marxist want to destroy the USAis no civility in)
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To: blasater1960
So what saves ? the law ? or Jesus Christ ?
Jesus Christ came to full fill the law completely where man could not, Jesus Christ satisfied all of the law's demands, man could not, nor can he ever full fill all of God's demands.
In Jesus Christ, GOD's righteous anger, God's righteous judgment, God's holiness was satisfied and full fill in the only one who could ever be perfect in God's eyes.
To say that the law saves is to say that the shedding of Jesus Christ's blood was of no effect.... therefore, considering it as the same as animal blood.
The book of Hebrews has a grave warning to those who reject the blood of Christ and his sacrifice and turn back to the law.
That's who the book of Hebrews was written to, the Jewish Hebrews who once came to the saving knowledge and saving grace of Jesus Christ, and then, some came and deluded them, and caused them to reject Christ and go back to Judaism... they were called the Judaisers....
The book of Hebrews was written to show how much better the sacrifice of Jesus Christ was compared to the law, and animal blood sacrifice, how much better the New Convenient was than the Old that was passing away.
14 posted on 08/06/2010 3:54:06 AM PDT by American Constitutionalist (There the way the Communist/Marxist want to destroy the USAis no civility in)
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To: blasater1960

See, blasater, you have to first accept the totality of the New Testament. Only then can any parts be understood.

hehe


15 posted on 08/06/2010 4:45:12 AM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: American Constitutionalist; All
So what saves ? the law ? or Jesus Christ ?

Well, neither one saves. What saves is faith in HaShem,the G-d of Abraham, Issac and Jacob, the creator of the universe and worship Him Only. And for the Jew, do your best to follow the blueprint of life, the Torah and it's Law. When we do the Law, we are doing the will of G-d on earth and following the Law out love of G-d is a delight (Psalm 119) not a curse. Following the Law repairs a broken and fallen world. Following the Law by rote, superfically, hypocritically, without love and without faith in HaShem.....would be in vain.

Jesus Christ came to full fill the law completely where man could not, Jesus Christ satisfied all of the law's demands, man could not, nor can he ever full fill all of God's demands.

Jesus did not fulfill the Law. Nor is fulfilling the Law required of us for salvation. No where in Tanakh (OT) does it say they we have to observe the Law perfectly and if we dont, we are going to hell. Futhermore, no where in Tanakh does it say the Messiah will perform the Law perfectly on our behalf.

On the contrary, G-d forbids vicarious human atonement.

In Deuteronomy 24:16 it specifically says this:

The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the father. Every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

In Exodus 32:30-35, Moses tries to offer himself as an atonement for the sins of the people. To be written out of God's book, means to be written out of the Book of Life, which means Moses was asking to die for the sins of the People. God's response was "No, it does not work that way, each man dies for his own sin:"

And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses said unto the people, Ye have sinned a great sin: and now I will go up unto the Eternal; perhaps I shall make an atonement for your sin. And Moses returned unto the Eternal, and said, Oh, this people have sinned a great sin, and have made them gods of gold. Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. And the Eternal said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book. Therefore now go, lead the people unto the place of which I have spoken unto thee...

The whole of chapter 18 of the book of Ezekiel is about this idea, that no one can die for someone else's sin. Further, this chapter of Ezekiel teaches us that all we have to do for God's forgiveness is to stop doing the Bad and start doing the Good, and God will forgive us. Nowhere in this chapter does it say that we have to have a blood sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins.

The word of the Eternal came unto me again, saying, What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge? As I live, saith the Eternal God, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel. Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live. Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Eternal God: and not that he should return from his ways, and live? But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die. Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive. [Ezekiel 18:1-4; 20-24; 26-27]

To say that the law saves is to say that the shedding of Jesus Christ's blood was of no effect.... therefore, considering it as the same as animal blood.

It was of no effect. A) G-d forbids human sacrifice and B) Jesus death on the cross was not according the to the Laws of sin sacrifice or guilt sacrifice. His throat was not slit for rapid blood loss, his blood was not sprinkled on the alter and his fat burned. Jesus died by suffication, not blood loss at the throat.

In Deuteronomy, God calls Human sacrifice something that He hates, and an abomination to Him!

Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou inquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise. Thou shalt not do so unto the Eternal thy God: for every abomination to the Eternal, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods. [Deuteronomy 12:30-31]

In Jeremiah, God tells us that Human sacrifice is such horrible a concept to Him, that it did not even come into His mind

Because they have forsaken me, and have estranged this place, and have burned incense in it unto other gods, whom neither they nor their fathers have known, nor the kings of Judah, and have filled this place with the blood of innocents; They have built also the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it into my mind: Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the Eternal, that this place shall no more be called Tophet, nor The Valley of the Son of Hinnom, but The Valley of Slaughter. [Jeremiah 19:4-6]

And yet we are to then turn around and believe that God changed His mind, and required human sacrifice, and then it was the sacrifice of His own human son that God wanted? After telling the Jews to stay away from pagan practices, and pagan beliefs, God then changes His mind and says, "Okay, now go ahead and believe in a human sacrifice, just as these very pagans believe?"

Micah answers this question well:

Micah 6:6 Wherewith shall I come before the LORD, and bow myself before the high God? shall I come before him with burnt offerings, with calves of a year old?

7Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, or with ten thousands of rivers of oil? shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?

8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God

The book of Hebrews was written to show how much better the sacrifice of Jesus Christ was compared to the law, and animal blood sacrifice, how much better the New Convenient was than the Old that was passing away.

I am sorry but the book of Hebrews is just wrong. It misquotes the holy scriptures, it creates theology whole cloth with no justification and violates Deut 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

But Hebrews says: “For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the Law.” Hebrews 7:12

The Preisthood did not change. Jesus cant possibly be a Priest, he is not a Levite. Nor is he of the order of Melchizedek, who did have a genealogy, he was Shem and Shem was the forunner of the Aaronic preisthood. He recieved tithes because Abraham was still Abram at the time and had not recieved the final covenant nor gone through the 10 trials. There is no new preisthood.

The writer of Hebrews says: “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. Hebrews 8:13

He is wrong. The era of the new covenant has not arrived yet. Look what Jeremiah has to say about it:

“Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah – not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out to the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My Law in their mind, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.” Jeremiah 31:31-34

Do we not have to teach people about G-d now? Does everyone have a knowlege of G-d? From the least to the greatest? No. The new covenant has not happened yet.

Ezekiel words it a little differently:

“Although I have cast them far off among the Gentiles, and although I have scattered them among the countries, yet I shall be a little sanctuary for them in the countries where they have gone. Therefore say, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “I will gather you from the peoples, assemble you from the countries where you have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel.”’ “And they will go there, and they will take away all its detestable things and all its abominations from there. Then I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within them, and take the stony heart out of their flesh, and give them a heart of flesh, that they may walk in My statutes and keep My judgments and do them; and they shall be My people, and I will be their God.” Ezekiel 11:16-20

Has the ingathering been completed? No. And as you can see, the people will observe the Law. The writer of Hebrews is wrong.

The writer of Hebrews intentionally misquotes Leviticus 17:11

22And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Lev 17: 10And whatsoever man there be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, that eateth any manner of blood; I will even set my face against that soul that eateth blood, and will cut him off from among his people.

11For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

12Therefore I said unto the children of Israel, No soul of you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger that sojourneth among you eat blood.

Leviticus is saying "dont eat blood" If you do, you will be cut-off! Why? Because the only purpose of the blood is atonement...it is not food! It doesnt say, without the shedding of blood there is no atonement. Lev 5:11 makes it clear...no blood sacrifice is required...a flour sacrifice will forgive sin.

11But if he be not able to bring two turtledoves, or two young pigeons, then he that sinned shall bring for his offering the tenth part of an ephah of fine flour for a sin offering; he shall put no oil upon it, neither shall he put any frankincense thereon: for it is a sin offering.

12Then shall he bring it to the priest, and the priest shall take his handful of it, even a memorial thereof, and burn it on the altar, according to the offerings made by fire unto the LORD: it is a sin offering.

There are many other verses in the Tanakh that talk about forgiveness without a blood sacrifice. Prayer, repentance, fasting and charity are among the most often used means of forgiveness.

16 posted on 08/06/2010 12:10:17 PM PDT by blasater1960 ( Dt 30, Ps 111, The Torah is perfect, attainable, now and forever)
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To: blasater1960
Yeshua hamashiach !!

Jesus the Messiah, enough said...

Jesus saves !
17 posted on 08/06/2010 4:02:56 PM PDT by American Constitutionalist (There the way the Communist/Marxist want to destroy the USAis no civility in)
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To: blasater1960

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALYjR6sldiA&feature=related


18 posted on 08/09/2010 10:23:31 PM PDT by American Constitutionalist (There the way the Communist/Marxist want to destroy the USAis no civility in)
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To: blasater1960

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNgbBYdDZA8


19 posted on 08/09/2010 10:35:56 PM PDT by American Constitutionalist (There the way the Communist/Marxist want to destroy the USAis no civility in)
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To: blasater1960
Those who cling to the hope of the Messiah have missed the bus, there was a time frame, a open window for the time the Messiah would come.
Around 70 AD was when that time frame ended.
Jesus Christ was the ONLY ONE who could have full fill all of what the Old Testament told us about the Messiah.
20 posted on 08/09/2010 10:41:20 PM PDT by American Constitutionalist (There the way the Communist/Marxist want to destroy the USAis no civility in)
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To: blasater1960
Why is it so hard for some to accept and believe that GOD himself can come here to Earth as a human like us ?
It's because of preconceived notions of religious ideas that are human invented.

21 posted on 08/09/2010 10:47:02 PM PDT by American Constitutionalist (There the way the Communist/Marxist want to destroy the USAis no civility in)
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To: blasater1960
You keep going on about how GOD forbidden men to offer human sacrifices, and in that, you are correct, however, there is no law where GOD forbidden himself to offer himself up as a sacrifice for us.
Jesus Christ IS the sacrificial lamb of GOD.
The whole OLD TESTAMENT is full of foreshadows of what is to come. foreshadows of Christ.
Those who don't want to see, will never see, those who want to see are already blessed.. that is what Jesus meant as the blind leading the blind, though they say they see, yet, they are blind as a blindfolded bat in a dark cave.
22 posted on 08/09/2010 10:53:20 PM PDT by American Constitutionalist (There the way the Communist/Marxist want to destroy the USAis no civility in)
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To: blasater1960
One of the reasons's why some people don't want to accept or believe in Jesus Christ is because they don't want to give up their pride and religion.
Religion is a false cloak of pride to appear to be serving GOD.
Religion give people the sense of self righteousness where they can go out and show people how religious they are and how ( self ) righteous they are.
Accepting and believing in Jesus Christ is humbling, and you have to humble yourself before GOD.
Being saved by Grace, the Grace of GOD, takes away the self boasting and pride one has of their own self righteousness.
That, there, is one of reasons who some people can't, won't, accept Jesus Christ, their pride won't let them, until GOD humbles them.
23 posted on 08/09/2010 11:55:47 PM PDT by American Constitutionalist (There the way the Communist/Marxist want to destroy the USAis no civility in)
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To: blasater1960
Jesus Christ IS God in the flesh, God made human.

Get over it and accept it.
Even God foretold what was going to take place....

6. For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon[d] his shoulder, and his name shall be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
( actually, Government here means, that all authority was given unto Jesus Christ ) ....

Isaiah 9:6 .... read it for you self, check it out, it's there in your bible, unless you refuse to read this part.

Here is another one...
He shall offer himself up as a sacrifice for the sins of many..
Isaiah 53

1. Who has believed our message
and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?

2. He grew up before him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.

3 He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering. Like one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

4 Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted.

5 But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed.

6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.

7 He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth.

8 By oppression [a] and judgment he was taken away. And who can speak of his descendants? For he was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgression of my people he was stricken.
[b] 9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth.

10 Yet it was the LORD's will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the LORD makes [c] his life a guilt offering, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand.

11 After the suffering of his soul, he will see the light of life [d] and be satisfied [e] ; by his knowledge [f] my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities.

12. Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, [g] and he will divide the spoils with the strong, [h] because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
24 posted on 08/10/2010 3:28:36 AM PDT by American Constitutionalist (There the way the Communist/Marxist want to destroy the USAis no civility in)
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To: blasater1960

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlhKK4hjS2k&NR=1


25 posted on 08/10/2010 4:14:04 AM PDT by American Constitutionalist (There the way the Communist/Marxist want to destroy the USAis no civility in)
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To: American Constitutionalist
Wow...a lot of posts out of the blue! Just when I thought you were off doing other things! I will be happy to read everything you have to offer and take it to heart. As long as you will do the same.

Get over it and accept it. Isaiah 9:6 .... read it for you self, check it out, it's there in your bible, unless you refuse to read this part.

You dont have to word things like that. I will look at everything. And just so you know, I have seen every proof text known to man on Christianity (most likely anyway). I accept the word of G-d in context only and using proper translation of Hebrew words. I know Hebrew so I can check on these things. I dont believe in taking a single verse out and creating theology around it. Hopefully you do to. I'll give you an answer on all your points.

26 posted on 08/10/2010 10:35:58 AM PDT by blasater1960 ( Dt 30, Ps 111, The Torah is perfect, attainable, now and forever)
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To: blasater1960
Are you one of the anti-Christs that the Bible has warned us of ?
God promised a Messiah, and that Messiah would come at a certain time, that time frame has passed.
Isaiah 53 ( the whole chapter ) is not taking one little bible verse out of context.
Ok,, I admit, I am not edumacated like you, I don't have a PHD and all of that jazz, and yes, I am not edumacated in Hebrew, so sue me,
The so called Religious Pharisees and Sadducee's were also highly edumacated, but, they had it all wrong.
One thing I do have that's above all your edumacation, I know him, the GOD of Israel, and he has spoken to me in his voice.
27 posted on 08/10/2010 5:19:03 PM PDT by American Constitutionalist (There the way the Communist/Marxist want to destroy the USAis no civility in)
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To: American Constitutionalist
Are you one of the anti-Christs that the Bible has warned us of ?

Why so harsh?

28 posted on 08/10/2010 6:54:08 PM PDT by blasater1960 ( Dt 30, Ps 111, The Torah is perfect, attainable, now and forever)
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To: blasater1960
Not being harsh,,, just asking a simple question..
Those who are against Christ are anti-Christ.

Jesus Christ said in John 14 : 6 " I am the way, the truth, and the life, no man can come to the father but by me "
29 posted on 08/10/2010 6:57:20 PM PDT by American Constitutionalist (There the way the Communist/Marxist want to destroy the USAis no civility in)
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To: blasater1960
Here is one difinition of a cult...
( not my own words ) ....
( all cultic deviations tend to downplay the finished work of Christ and emphasize the importance of earning moral acceptance before God through one's own religious works. ) ..
Here is a list of Cults

Jehova's Witnesses.
The Unification Church
Christian Science
Christadelphianism
The Way International
Eckankar
Swedenborgianism
Mormonism
The Church Of Scientology
Seventh Day Adventism
AHMADIYYA MOVEMENT
ALAMO CHRISTIAN FOUNDATION
ANTHROPOSOPHICAL SOCIETY
ARICA INSTITUTE INC
ASSEMBLIES OF YAHWEH
ASTARA
BLACK MUSLIM- Jesus was black and only a prophet
BRANHAMISM
CHRISTADELPHIANS
DAWN BIBLE STUDENTS ASSOC.
EMISSARIES OF DIVINE LIGHT.
THE FOUNDATION FAITH OF THE MILLENNIUM.
FREE MASONRY.
IGLESIA NI CRISTO.
LAYMEN'S HOME MISSIONARY MOVEMENT.
MEGIDDO MISSION.
NEO-GNOSTICISM.
NEW AGE MOVEMENT - Promises to produce "Messiah" out of a coalition of cult/occult groups.
PROCESS CHURCH OF THE FINAL JUDGEMENT.
SIKHISM - If a person works his way to salvation he is absorbed into the formless God.
UNITARIANS (UNITARIAN UNIVERSALIST ASSOC.) - Jesus extraordinarily good man only.

30 posted on 08/10/2010 7:25:38 PM PDT by American Constitutionalist (There the way the Communist/Marxist want to destroy the USAis no civility in)
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To: American Constitutionalist
"all cultic deviations tend to downplay the finished work of Christ and emphasize the importance of earning moral acceptance before God through one's own religious works

This, however, is the basic problem in the minds and hearts of the MAJORITY of people we speak to, even members of main-line denominational churches, and Roman Catholics.

31 posted on 08/10/2010 7:40:22 PM PDT by John Leland 1789 (Grateful)
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To: John Leland 1789
" This, however, is the basic problem in the minds and hearts of the MAJORITY of people we speak to, even members of main-line denominational churches, and Roman Catholics. "

Have you noticed that those main line churches are dying ? and losing membership and are viewed as " dead churches " ?
It's God's will, whatever is not God's will, God will allow to die on the vine.
NO CHURCH owns me,,,, I belong to Jesus Christ only...
32 posted on 08/10/2010 8:01:20 PM PDT by American Constitutionalist (There the way the Communist/Marxist want to destroy the USAis no civility in)
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To: American Constitutionalist
"Have you noticed that those main line churches are dying ? and losing membership and are viewed as ' dead churches ?"

Definitely! We are in the general end-time apostsy. The churches that are growing are not attracting people by spiritual or biblical means. It's entertainment; club/casino mentality.

33 posted on 08/10/2010 8:11:22 PM PDT by John Leland 1789 (Grateful)
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To: American Constitutionalist

Thank goodness I am not on the list! I am Jewish.


34 posted on 08/10/2010 8:38:24 PM PDT by blasater1960 ( Dt 30, Ps 111, The Torah is perfect, attainable, now and forever)
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To: blasater1960
" Thank goodness I am not on the list! I am Jewish. "
Inspite of the fact that some, or most Jews deny Jesus Christ as the Messiah, Christains are called to love our Jewish brothers, yes, and that means you.
I have to tell you, you have a lot of Evangelical Christians who are on your side, who love you, pray for you, and Israel, remember that, the next time you deny Christ.
35 posted on 08/10/2010 8:52:12 PM PDT by American Constitutionalist (There the way the Communist/Marxist want to destroy the USAis no civility in)
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To: blasater1960
May I ask you ? where are you politically ? same as us ? conservative ?

36 posted on 08/10/2010 9:03:06 PM PDT by American Constitutionalist (There the way the Communist/Marxist want to destroy the USAis no civility in)
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To: blasater1960

No matter how much the Jewish people hate Christians, or Jesus Christ, we are called to love the Jewish people, for we know, that they are GOD’s chosen people, and we are called to love Israel, pray for Israel, bless Israel.


37 posted on 08/10/2010 9:05:31 PM PDT by American Constitutionalist (There the way the Communist/Marxist want to destroy the USAis no civility in)
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To: blasater1960

There is one thing, that you will never be able to take away from me, no matter who you are, I know the GOD of Israel, and I know, beyond a shaddow of a doubt, that I have had him speak to me..


38 posted on 08/10/2010 9:07:18 PM PDT by American Constitutionalist (There the way the Communist/Marxist want to destroy the USAis no civility in)
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To: American Constitutionalist; All
Okay I'll start here and work backwards to your other posts. I suppose this is a giant waste of time but oh well

Jesus Christ IS God in the flesh, God made human.

Deut 4:12 Then the LORD spoke to you out of the fire. You heard the sound of words but saw no form; there was only a voice. 13 He declared to you his covenant, the Ten Commandments, which he commanded you to follow and then wrote them on two stone tablets. 14 And the LORD directed me at that time to teach you the decrees and laws you are to follow in the land that you are crossing the Jordan to possess. 15 You saw no form of any kind the day the LORD spoke to you at Horeb out of the fire. Therefore watch yourselves very carefully, 16 so that you do not become corrupt and make for yourselves an idol, an image of any shape, whether formed like a man or a woman

G-d has no form...whether formed like a man or whatever...

Throughout the Hebrew Scriptures, there is a sharp contrast made between God on one hand, and human beings on the other. First of all, there is always a reprimand against any human being who claims to be God, or Divine, as we read in Ezekiel 28:2:

Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Eternal God; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a god, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:

I will not execute the fierceness of mine anger, I will not return to destroy Ephraim: for I am God, and not a man; the Holy One in the midst of thee: and I will not enter into the city. [Hosea 11:9]

And then there is another verse, in Numbers 23:19, where God specifically tells us that if God were a human being, then he would be a liar, as all human beings do lie on occasion. Furthermore, this verse tell us that if God were a human being, he would be in need of repentance because all human beings sin at some point in their lives. Finally, this verse also tells us that if God were a human being, then he would make promises, but not keep them:

God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the Son of Man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good? [Numbers 23:19]

6. For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon[d] his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. ( actually, Government here means, that all authority was given unto Jesus Christ ) ....

The ninth chapter in the Book of Isaiah deals with the crisis that existed in the Kingdom of Judah during a time when the Assyrian king Sannheriv wanted to destroy it. Isaiah responds to the messenger sent by Hezekiah with a message in which he reaffirms the promise that G-d made to David, namely, that the kingdom would be preserved (see 2 Sam 7:12-16). The army of Sannheriv, the king who previously exiled the tribes of the Northern Kingdom of Israel, lays siege to Jerusalem seeking to capture and exile the people of the Kingdom of Judah. The nation turned to G-d and obeyed Hezekiah's order not to respond and, as noted (see 2 Chron 32:21, above), a miracle occurred. An angel came and slaughtered the Assyrian army, and the king, Sannheriv, was assassinated by members of his own family upon his return in defeat. Thus, the Jewish nation that was on the brink of destruction, standing in the shadow of death, suddenly and miraculously was redeemed, and it stood in a great light.

The tenth chapter in the Book of Isaiah provides the epilogue to the events described in Chapter 9. In these two chapters, the Prophet recounts how G-d saved King Hezekiah and his Kingdom of Judah from Sannheriv’s massive military attack. Prior to the siege on Jerusalem, the Assyrian army successfully captured and exiled most of the population of the Northern Kingdom of Israel. Now Assyria was poised to exile the people of the Kingdom of Judah, the helpless remnant of the Jewish people who so desperately needed divine intervention. By way of leading into a description of the events that lifted a nation from a state of despair to the ecstasy of a miraculous redemption; Isaiah opens up his ninth chapter with the following declaration:

Isaiah 9:1 - The people who walked in darkness, have seen a great light; those who dwell in the land of the shadow of death, light shone upon them.

When certain passages in Chapter 10 are superimposed on some passages in Chapter 9, it becomes even more evident that the passage Isaiah 9 5-6/[6-7] relates directly to G-d saving Hezekiah and his people from Sannheriv in the eighth century B.C.E

The Hebrew Bible (Tanakh) and Jewish rabbis and sages all agree that the original Hebrew reads: "For a child has been born to us, a son given to us, and the authority is upon his shoulder, and the wondrous adviser, the mighty God, the everlasting Father, called his name, "the prince of peace." (Isaiah 9:5). It is obvious that Isaiah, according to the original Hebrew is talking about a person in the past tense.

For example, the word which the Christian Bibles render as "his name shall be called" is the two words "vayikra shemo," which properly translated, should be "called his name" or "his name was called." The word "vayikra" is the first word to appear in the book of Leviticus, and a quick check will show that all Bibles render "vayikra" there properly, in the past tense.

Christians believe that Jesus is God incarnated in the flesh and they deliberately alter these verses from the Hebrew Bible to prove their claim. But to accomplish that, they had to change the tense from the present to the future, making it, "A child is born, a son is given and the government shall be upon his shoulder and his name shall becalled etc., etc.”

When studying the Christian claims of Jesus in Isaiah 9:5-6, questions should be asked.

1. Which government ever rested on Jesus' shoulders?

2. How could Jesus have been a wonderful counselor when the Christian Bible (New Testament) makes it clear that Peter couldn't understand Jesus' mission and Judas frustrated his counsel?

3. Why would an Almighty God take orders and be subject to earthly mortals? Yet Jesus was in subjection to his parents (Luke 2:51) and had to learn obedience (Hebrews 5:8).

4. How could Jesus be called a Prince of Peace when there was never any peace in the land during Jesus' time and further more, he clearly said, "I came not to bring peace but a sword (Matthew 10:34)?

Most Bible commentators agree that this text written by Isaiah, was referring to King Hezekiah when he was a nine year old child. Later when he became king over the Jews Hezekiah established a reign of righteousness and peace and was actually called the "Almighty God." The Oxford Annotated Bible explains that the Hebrew word for “Almighty God” actually means "divine in might" and states that the passage originally celebrated the appointment of a Judean king.

Once again, these original Hebrew verses are not a prophecy of Jesus.

Isaiah 53 is a rather long explanation, so I will refer you here, so please read them thoroughly:

Isaiah 53 part 1

Isaiah 53 part 2

Isaiah 53 part 3

Isaiah 53 audio

Please review all these sources....all of them.

Isaiah 53 is the nation of Israel, the Jewish people. His visage marred beyond that of any man, Jesus may have been scourged, but you could still tell it was Jesus on the cross. I saw the passion of the cross. Yes, he was bloodied, but he still looked like a man.

On the other hand, the Jewish people for 2000 years have been called, sons of pigs, apes, monkeys, viruses, rats, sub human, demons, vampires etc. The only way other human beings can stuff 6 million Jews into gas chambers and burn them in ovens is to see them as non-human beings. The Nazi's were on an extermination quest because the Jews were seen as not human.

39 posted on 08/10/2010 9:21:33 PM PDT by blasater1960 ( Dt 30, Ps 111, The Torah is perfect, attainable, now and forever)
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To: blasater1960
At least I have a Jewish brother in who, maybe in political things, we might agree, and Jewish brother in who, we might have open debate on scripture and argue, but, still have mutual respect.
Remember my Jewish brother, I AM NOT AGAINST YOU, I am for you, Jesus Christ is not against you, Jesus Christ is for you, and for Israel.

40 posted on 08/10/2010 9:22:23 PM PDT by American Constitutionalist (There the way the Communist/Marxist want to destroy the USAis no civility in)
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To: John Leland 1789
" It's entertainment; club/casino mentality "
There was a time when Christians influenced the world, where God's people were the innovators, and not mimic what the world does.
41 posted on 08/10/2010 9:25:16 PM PDT by American Constitutionalist (There the way the Communist/Marxist want to destroy the USAis no civility in)
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To: American Constitutionalist
May I ask you ? where are you politically ? same as us ? conservative ?
42 posted on 08/10/2010 9:34:48 PM PDT by blasater1960 ( Dt 30, Ps 111, The Torah is perfect, attainable, now and forever)
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To: blasater1960
When then ? do the Jewish people expect the Messiah to come ?
I can't help what has happened to the Jewish people in the past, I was not born yet, but, I do not look upon the Jewish people as you have said, I have respect, and honor for the Jewish people.
Please, I know, I know what has happened to the Jewish people in the past was terrible, a huge crime against your people, but, please ? don't take it out on your Christian brothers and sisters who love you, who are called by GOD to love you, and don't take it out of Jesus Christ.

43 posted on 08/10/2010 9:37:01 PM PDT by American Constitutionalist (There the way the Communist/Marxist want to destroy the USAis no civility in)
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To: blasater1960
" May I ask you ? where are you politically ? same as us ? conservative ? "

Well ?



You didn't vote for Obama did you ?
44 posted on 08/10/2010 9:39:02 PM PDT by American Constitutionalist (There the way the Communist/Marxist want to destroy the USAis no civility in)
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To: blasater1960
" May I ask you ? where are you politically ? same as us ? conservative ? "

Ok, I'll take a guess, your conservative ? right ?

At least we can agree on somethings , right ?
45 posted on 08/10/2010 9:42:43 PM PDT by American Constitutionalist (There the way the Communist/Marxist want to destroy the USAis no civility in)
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To: American Constitutionalist
One of the reasons's why some people don't want to accept or believe in Jesus Christ is because they don't want to give up their pride and religion. Religion is a false cloak of pride to appear to be serving GOD..... Being saved by Grace, the Grace of GOD, takes away the self boasting and pride one has of their own self righteousness.

Anyone who is "religious" without a personal relationship with G-d is in trouble, spiritually speaking. I have a very personal relationship with the G-d of Abraham, Issac and Jacob. Look to King David as a model, he was a great King, yet humble, a murderer but forgiven, a flawed human being, but G-d called him friend, a man after G-ds heart. The longest chapter in all of scripture is Psalm 119, 176 verses of David praising the Law of G-d.

I am saved by Grace. Just as all of us are. Whenever we approach G-d and repent, turn from our sin, with a broken and contrite heart, we are forgiven. Why? By the grace of G-d.

Ps 32:5I acknowledge my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin.

Ps 51:15 O Lord, open thou my lips; and my mouth shall shew forth thy praise. 16For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering. 17The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

I am ever mindful, in our daily prayers of the power of G-d, the creator of the universe, King of all nations, Father and friend. And I am humbled as David wrote: 6But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.

46 posted on 08/10/2010 9:51:21 PM PDT by blasater1960 ( Dt 30, Ps 111, The Torah is perfect, attainable, now and forever)
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To: American Constitutionalist
" May I ask you ? where are you politically ? same as us ? conservative ? " Well ? You didn't vote for Obama did you ?

I dont know what happened to my post on that one...Yes, I am ultra conservative as are all the Jews I know. I cant stand Obama or any of the JINO's who he hires. They are no better than the Jews the Nazis put in charge of the death camps (Kapos). I hate abortion. Fags shouldnt marry. I own many guns. I carry concealed. I believe in small limited government. Illegals should leave. End birthright citizenship. Our country is on the verse of economic collapse....etc. I would never vote for Obama or any dem for that matter. There is something very wrong about Obama and he is a vile anti-jew. If you want to see how other Jews like me think about politics, go to Israel National news and israel national radio. (online)

47 posted on 08/10/2010 10:00:36 PM PDT by blasater1960 ( Dt 30, Ps 111, The Torah is perfect, attainable, now and forever)
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To: American Constitutionalist
When then ? do the Jewish people expect the Messiah to come ?

Soon! As you can tell, the nations are gathering against Israel. The Jewish people are returning to Israel in ever greater numbers, the first time since 70 AD!, I myself want to go. There is a sanhedrin forming, many of the implements for the 3rd temple are made. The priestly garments, the breastplate, the menorah, the laver, the priestly crown. All ready.

Temple Institute

don't take it out on your Christian brothers and sisters who love you, who are called by GOD to love you, and don't take it out of Jesus Christ.

I dont. I know that evangelical Christians are Israels best friend. This is a recent, since ww2, phenomenon though. For most of the past 2000 years, crusades, inquisition, pogroms and holocaust have slaughtered the Jews.

I dont hate any Christians or Jesus. I do feel that the Jewish point of view should be more widely known and let the chips fall where they may. I would argue that most Christians have no idea why Orthodox Conservative Jews dont accept Jesus. Maybe...they are blind...they dont realize there was a suffering messiah...but trust me, we have examined everything. When you learn Hebrew, it starts to make more sense. My opinion is, learn everything there is to know.

48 posted on 08/10/2010 10:23:39 PM PDT by blasater1960 ( Dt 30, Ps 111, The Torah is perfect, attainable, now and forever)
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To: American Constitutionalist
At least I have a Jewish brother in who, maybe in political things, we might agree, and Jewish brother in who, we might have open debate on scripture and argue, but, still have mutual respect. Remember my Jewish brother, I AM NOT AGAINST YOU, I am for you, Jesus Christ is not against you, Jesus Christ is for you, and for Israel.

I agree! It is good to hash these things out in mutual respect. We both share a love for the G-d of Israel, his land and his people. That is no small thing!

49 posted on 08/10/2010 10:27:34 PM PDT by blasater1960 ( Dt 30, Ps 111, The Torah is perfect, attainable, now and forever)
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To: American Constitutionalist
No matter how much the Jewish people hate Christians, or Jesus Christ, we are called to love the Jewish people, for we know, that they are GOD’s chosen people, and we are called to love Israel, pray for Israel, bless Israel.

All the Jews I "hang with" dont hate Christians. It is the secular Jews (oxymoron there) and reform liberal Jews who see the Chrisitans with suspicion (mostly but some orthodox too). Again, the horrors of the holocaust have yet to fade and and the pogroms of europe have left a scar.

50 posted on 08/10/2010 10:38:14 PM PDT by blasater1960 ( Dt 30, Ps 111, The Torah is perfect, attainable, now and forever)
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