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(Title shortened to fit)Statement of Joseph Smith that the Constitution would hang by a thread
Ensign Magazine ^ | D. Michael Stewart

Posted on 08/10/2010 1:18:05 PM PDT by greyfoxx39

What do we know about the purported statement of Joseph Smith that the Constitution would hang by a thread and that the elders would save it?

D. Michael Stewart, Brigham Young University, Department of History “I Have a Question,” Ensign, June 1976, 64–65

The documents show that Joseph Smith did prophesy a number of times that the United States and the Constitution would be imperiled and that the elders would have a hand in saving them. The first known record of the prophecy dates to July 19, 1840, in Nauvoo, when the prophet spoke about the redemption of Zion. Using Doctrine & Covenants 101 as a text, he said, “Even this nation will be on the verge of crumbling to pieces and tumbling to the ground and when the Constitution is on the brink of ruin this people will be the staff upon which the nation shall lean and they shall bear the Constitution away from the very verge of destruction.” (Joseph Smith Papers, LDS Church Historical Archives, Box 1, March 10, 1844.)

There are also other documents in Church History files that show that five different early Saints recorded some remarks by the Prophet Joseph Smith on this same prophecy, perhaps voiced by the Prophet a number of times in a number of ways after 1840. Parley P. Pratt wrote in 1841 that the prophet said, “The government is fallen and needs redeeming. It is guilty of Blood and cannot stand as it now is but will come so near desolation as to hang as it were by a single hair!!!!! Then the servants goes [sic] to the nations of the earth, and gathers the strength of the Lord’s house! A mighty army!!!!!! And this is the redemption of Zion when the saints shall have redeemed that government and reinstated it in all its purity and glory!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!” (George A. Smith Papers, Church Archives, Box 7, Folder 5, January 21, 1841.)

James Burgess related that the Prophet, while addressing the Nauvoo Legion several miles east of Nauvoo in May 1843, said that “the time would come when the constitution and government would hang by a brittle thread and would be ready to fall into other hands but this people the latter-day saints will step forth and save it.” (James Burgess Journal, 1818–1904, Church Archives, vol. 1—found among loose sermons.)

Orson Hyde recalled that the Prophet predicted that “the time would come that the Constitution and the country would be in danger of an overthrow and said he, if the constitution be saved at all, it will be by the Elders of this Church. I believe this is about the language as nearly as I can recollect it.” (JD, 6:150.)

In a Pioneer Day celebration in Ogden in 1871, Eliza R. Snow said, “I heard the prophet say, ‘The time will come when the government of these United States will be so nearly overthrown through its corruption, that the Constitution will hang as it were by a single hair, and the Latter-day Saints—the Elders of Israel—will step forward to its rescue and save it.” (Journal History, MSF 143 #28, July 24, 1871.)

Jedediah M. Grant, during the dark days of threatened invasion of Utah by a federal army, referred to the Prophet’s utterance as he addressed a Mormon Battalion gathering in Salt Lake City, February 6, 1855.

“What did the Prophet Joseph say? When the Constitution shall be tottering we shall be the people to save it from the hand of the foe.” (Deseret News Weekly, January 19, 1870.)

On various occasions, Joseph Smith referred to the Constitution, the country, and destiny of the nation; and there is clear evidence that he anticipated future peril. Furthermore, he pronounced the prophecy at various times and places. Perhaps he himself interchanged the simile “on the brink of ruin,” “hang by a brittle thread,” “hang by a single hair,” etc., to describe the anticipated crisis. It is also clear that the redeemers or rescuers of the Constitution were to be either the Saints generally or priesthood officers specifically.



TOPICS: Apologetics; General Discusssion; Other non-Christian; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: constitution; inman; lds; mormon
Disclaimer: I am former LDS and "anti" mormonism. I post articles from official mormon sources that often relate to current discussions taking place on the forum to provide a means for open discussion in the Religion forum. This article is posted in response to caucus threads.
 
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1 posted on 08/10/2010 1:18:08 PM PDT by greyfoxx39
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To: colorcountry; Colofornian; Elsie; FastCoyote; svcw; Zakeet; SkyPilot; rightazrain; ...

Ping


2 posted on 08/10/2010 1:20:03 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (The most daunting challenge for Zero as POTUS is fitting all the speeches in between vacations.)
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To: greyfoxx39

Not much of a ‘prophecy”

It is kind of like a fortune cookie- “You will have some hard times then some good times”


3 posted on 08/10/2010 1:20:06 PM PDT by Mr. K (Physically unable to proofreed (<---oops! see?))
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To: Mr. K

“We’ll have rain this year...”


4 posted on 08/10/2010 1:21:05 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: greyfoxx39

Virgo Horoscope
Tuesday, Aug 10, 2010
Social events, cultural activities, and entertainment are highly favored. You feel good and can enjoy yourself. There’s a tendency to overindulge in food or other comforts.

The accuracy of the forecast is uncanny!


5 posted on 08/10/2010 1:25:40 PM PDT by dockkiller (COME AND TAKE IT.)
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To: greyfoxx39; colorcountry; Colofornian; Elsie; FastCoyote; svcw; Zakeet; SkyPilot; rightazrain
Caught red-handed smoking a cigar and downing a glass of whisky, Joseph Smith said,
"Boys, I am a Prophet. I am not a saint."

Now that, that is my kind of religious leader.


6 posted on 08/10/2010 1:32:01 PM PDT by Kenny Bunk (The Republican Party was founded to Save the Union. Can it now Save the Republic?)
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To: greyfoxx39; Tennessee Nana
Nana's Words
7 posted on 08/10/2010 1:32:39 PM PDT by Utah Binger (Mount Carmel Utah, where Mr. Milquetoast lives with his "Persecution Complex")
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To: Mr. K
God has no tolerance for false prophets--people who preach in His name, but who do not truly speak for God. Liars and deceivers of this nature have no place in the church.

http://biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jeremiah%2014:14-15&version=NIV

Topics: False Prophet

Jeremiah 14:14-15 (KJV)

Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.

Therefore thus saith the LORD concerning the prophets that prophesy in my name, and I sent them not, yet they say, Sword and famine…

8 posted on 08/10/2010 1:35:29 PM PDT by STD (Witnessing Another Greek Tragedy as Our Chief Executive Implodes.)
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To: greyfoxx39

this people will be the staff upon which the nation shall lean and they shall bear the Constitution away from the very verge of destruction.” (Joseph Smith Papers, LDS Church Historical Archives, Box 1, March 10, 1844.)
_____________________________________________________

So some mormons are going to rescue the document called the constution...

and thats going to make it alright ???

The country will be “saved”

How dumb did Joey Smith get ???

Even if the original copy of the Constitution got burnt or destroyed, the country wouldnt be effected...

Old flags are burnt in ceremony but the country goes on...

copies of the Constitution in books get destroyed bu tht e country goes on...

America and the rule of law, the Constution, is an idea formed in the hearts and minds of the people...

Up till 1844 when Joey Smith got himmself killed in that jail break, there were already 12 changes to the Constitution..

The Constitution and the US flag have both been changed several times..

but the country has gone on richer for the extra statrs and strengthened by the new Amendments...

After joey Smith died the black slaves were freed and given American citizenship by Amendments to the Constitution...how can that symbolize destruction ???

women were given the vote and land ownership as a qualification for voting priveliges was done away with...Dids joey objectg to equal rights for women ???

Utah became a state at last and joined the Union...33 other areas became states also..was that wrong ???

What are the mormons goju ng to do ??

to make the constituttion palatable to mormonism, will blacks be enslaved again and women robbed of their voting rights ???

Will many states be cut off front Wahington DC ??

Will the 22nd Amendment which stopped anyone from being presidente-for-life after the death of FDR be tossed out so that a mormon bishop like Romney can rule as king ???

What ???


9 posted on 08/10/2010 2:26:06 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: greyfoxx39

the Latter-day Saints—the Elders of Israel— (Eliza R Snow, Journal History, MSF 143 #28, July 24, 1871.)
____________________________________________________

No Eliza the mormons are NOT the elders of Israel...

Nor are the mormons the “daughters of Israel”, the “mothers of israel”, the “daughters of Zion”...


10 posted on 08/10/2010 2:29:53 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: greyfoxx39

If the elders, and I’m assuming that he means the elders of the church, are going to save the country and constitution, perhaps he was referring to their birth records files. Maybe they have information on Obama’s actual birthplace, parents? Maybe the Morman church can disqualify him? It’s a long shot, I know, but I’ve always heard that their geneology records are excellent.


11 posted on 08/10/2010 2:31:33 PM PDT by Marty
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To: Kenny Bunk
"Boys, I am a Prophet. I am not a saint."
Now that, that is my kind of religious leader.

God made Aaron to be the mouthpiece of the children of Israel, and he will
make me to be god to you in his stead, and the elders to be mouth for me;
and if you don't like it, you must lump it.
Joseph Smith, Jr., Nauvoo, Illinois
April, 1844

Another good example of his eloquent leadership, IMHO.

12 posted on 08/10/2010 2:36:48 PM PDT by Zakeet (The Big Wee Wee -- rapidly moving America from WTF to SNAFU to FUBAR)
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To: Marty; svcw

I’ve always heard that their geneology records are excellent.
______________________________________________

Well you can hear a lot of things from the mormons but it doesnt make what they say correct...

in reality their IGI records stink...

They are unreliable and seldom sourced or proven..

they dead dunk live people, made up people, people who died as Christians and would never have wanted to be mormons...

they refuse to change any errors in their records...

I know Ive been trying to get something chamged for years...

They lack credibility in the real world and many historical and geneaqlogical societies will not accept their “records” for membership...

I know of no other large organization that is banned as they are...

Plus what they do have that is correct can be obtained at half the price from elsewhere...

The mormons dont own all the records YET ...

(Though goodness knows they have tried hard enough)

A little research will gather you what you might want from more reputable libraries and archives and will be more acceptable as “proofs”


13 posted on 08/10/2010 2:42:32 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Marty

Maybe they have information on Obama’s actual birthplace, parents?
__________________________________________

I doubt it...

Several mormons thought they were The ONE

Mitt Romney’s father Geor5ge first thought it was himself and then he had Mitt picked out and groomed as savior and king of America. . Mitt sees himself as the fulfillment of this prophecy.

- George Romney, interview in “A Man’s Religion and American Politics: An Interview with Governor Romney,” Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, Autumn 1967, v. 2, p. 25

“[T]here will be a complete change of government. Washington, D.C. will cease to be capital. The present national bureaucracy will have its end. The internal conflict will sweep away the current system of governments and will pave the way for the political kingdom of God and the millennial kingdom through which Jesus Christ will rule and reign.... A new government will be established among the saints and that political Kingdom of God will espouse and uphold the principles of Constitutional government.”

They thought that Mitt Romnbey was born to fulfill the White Horse prophecy

Do you think for one moment that the mormons would not have pushed Romney into the White house by producing the info on Barry Soetoro if they had it ???


14 posted on 08/10/2010 2:50:01 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Marty

“You will see the constitution of the United States almost destroyed. It will hang like a thread.... A terrible revolution will take place in the land of America.... [T]he land will be left without a Supreme Government,... [Mormonism] will have gathered strength, sending out Elders to gather the honest in heart... to stand by the Constitution of the United States.... In these days... God will set up a Kingdom, never to be thrown down.... [T]he whole of America will be made the Zion of God.”
- Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr., May 6, 1843, in Roberts, Journal of John J. Roberts,

Get ready for Sharia Law, mormon style...


15 posted on 08/10/2010 2:53:27 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Tennessee Nana
Well, Nana, if we must have religious law, I'll take Old Joe Smith's law long before I take that camel-rustling pedophile, Old Mo's law, anyday.

However, in re Mitt .... he really is like choking to death on vanilla ice cream. Can't those LDS people come up with some one else to ride The White Horse?

16 posted on 08/10/2010 2:56:17 PM PDT by Kenny Bunk (The Republican Party was founded to Save the Union. Can it now Save the Republic?)
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To: Marty
Maybe they have information on Obama’s actual birthplace, parents? Maybe the Morman church can disqualify him? It’s a long shot, I know, but I’ve always heard that their geneology records are excellent.

The mormon church has obviously weighed in on the birth subject as discussed in this FR thread of a year ago.

Mormon leader presents family history to Obama (did they get the birth certificate?)

17 posted on 08/10/2010 2:57:51 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (The most daunting challenge for Zero as POTUS is fitting all the speeches in between vacations.)
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To: Zakeet
if you don't like it, you must lump it

I am translating this into Latin for Pope Benny. I'm sure it will sound much more elegant ... while still telling everyone, "...it's my way or the Highway."

18 posted on 08/10/2010 2:58:57 PM PDT by Kenny Bunk (The Republican Party was founded to Save the Union. Can it now Save the Republic?)
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To: Kenny Bunk

Can’t those LDS people come up with some one else to ride The White Horse?
___________________________________

Well Harry Reid is a “temple worthy” mormon...


19 posted on 08/10/2010 3:08:59 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Utah Binger

Never heard of it ‘til now: looks interesting!


20 posted on 08/10/2010 3:18:04 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Zakeet
Another good example of his eloquent leadership, IMHO.
 
Even more:

 


 

"He (Joseph Smith) is the man through whom God has spoken... yet I would not like to call him a savior, though in a certain capacity he was a god to us, and is to the nations of the earth, and will continue to be."
 - Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:321
 
 
"You call us fools; but the day will be, gentlemen and ladies, whether you belong to this Church or not, when you will prize brother Joseph Smith as the Prophet of the Living God, and look upon him as a god..."
- Herber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses 5:88
 
 
"If we get our salvation, we shall have to pass by him [Joseph Smith]; if we enter our glory, it will be through the authority he has received. We cannot get around him [Joseph Smith]"
- (as quoted in 1988 Melchizedek Priesthood Study Guide, p. 142)
 
 
There is "no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...no man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the kingdom of God"
- Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, p.190
 
 
"I tell you, Joseph holds the keys, and none of us can get into the celestial kingdom without passing by him. We have not got rid of him, but he stands there as the sentinel, holding the keys of the kingdom of God; and there are many of them beside him. I tell you, if we get past those who have mingled with us, and know us best, and have a right to know us best, probably we can pass all other sentinels as far as it is necessary, or as far as we may desire. But I tell you, the pinch will be with those that have mingled with us, stood next to us, weighed our spirits, tried us, and proven us: there will be a pinch, in my view, to get past them. The others, perhaps, will say, If brother Joseph is satisfied with you, you may pass. If it is all right with him, it is all right with me. Then if Joseph shall say to a man, or if brother Brigham say to a man, I forgive you your sins, "Whosoever sins ye remit they are remitted unto them;" if you who have suffered and felt the weight of transgression—if you have generosity enough to forgive the sinner, I will forgive him: you cannot have more generosity than I have. I have given you power to forgive sins, and when the Lord gives a gift, he does not take it back again."
 - Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p.154-155
 
 
 
"It is because the Lord called Joseph Smith that salvation is again available to mortal men.... If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation,"
 - Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 396, 670
 
 

21 posted on 08/10/2010 3:19:48 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Kenny Bunk
Can't those LDS people come up with some one else to ride The White Horse?

Any nail that sticks out gets pounded down.

22 posted on 08/10/2010 3:21:06 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Tennessee Nana

“The rain will stop”! —The Amazing Criswell

The FIRST and only prediction he made that ever came true.


23 posted on 08/10/2010 3:49:24 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar ( Viva los SB 1070)
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To: greyfoxx39

Very interesting. Ping for a full read later.


24 posted on 08/10/2010 4:13:18 PM PDT by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are not stupid.)
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To: greyfoxx39

This is about the same as the false faith healers saying that God is telling them that someone in the TV audience is suffering from a headache. It is true that you can fool some of the people all of the time.


25 posted on 08/10/2010 4:34:02 PM PDT by Nosterrex
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To: Nosterrex
This is about the same as the false faith healers saying that God is telling them that someone in the TV audience is suffering from a headache. It is true that you can fool some of the people all of the time.

This is part of the "superiority" meme of mormonism. The belief is that God "restored" the Gospel of Jesus Christ to the hero, Joseph Smith and that everything that has come down from him from that point makes the membership anointed and special as having the "only" true way to salvation.

Of course, it would follow that there have been/would/will be wonderful acts that put Joseph Smith on a par with Jesus Christ as Savior, and since Smith was endowed with the magical power of the "priesthood" and passed it on to mormon males, any "saving" of the country/world will come through that line.

It wouldn't do for a pentecostal to "save the constitution" in that meme, would it? ;)

 

 

 
 

MORMON
ATTITUDES OF SUPERIORITY
 

  1. I’m Superior; I have a special gift of the holy Ghost -- you don’t!
  2. I’m Superior; I have God’s true priesthood power -- you don’t!
  3. I’m Superior; I can go in God’s secret Temple -- you can’t!
  4. I’m Superior; I’ve been Endowed with special Gifts and Knowledge -- you’re just normal!
  5. I’m Superior; I’ll have my family with me in heaven -- you’ll be with strangers!
  6. I’m Superior; I’m becoming a God -- you aren’t!
  7. I’m Superior; My women know their place as servants of man and yours don’t.
  8. I’m Superior; YOUR creeds are wrong because they come from man - mine comes from God (you can find each one printed in our Scriptures).
  9. I’m Superior; I don’t HAVE a creed - I’ve got 13 Articles of Faith.
10. I'm Superior; I have 4 "Bibles"-- the standard works (5 if you count the JST) -- you've only got one: in as far as it is translated correctly.
11. I’m Superior; I can lie with impunity about such things as church membership, church growth, church doctrine, church history, church influence, etc. —                           -- You can’t.
12. I’m Superior; I am right (everybody knows) when I say 'evangelical' Christians are lunatics -- 
                           -- You’re a hideous narrow-minded bigot, who is persecuting me by practicing discrimination by saying I'm not a Christian.
13. I'm Superior; I have a testimony about a prophet -- you don't.
14. I'm Superior; I have a Scripture-producing Amos 3:7 prophet -- you don't
15. I’m Superior; I have a Living Prophet who talks to god every day -- you have a dim-witted hireling of Satan who only talks to himself.
16. I'm Superior; I have my calling & election made sure -- you don't.
17. I’m Superior; I have magic underwear to protect me from the bogey man -- you don’t.
18. I’m Superior; I have secret clasps and grips to give the angel so I get admitted to the celestial kingdom -- you don’t ;so you can’t.
19. I'm Superior; I know secret handshake codes for afterlife entrances-- you don't.
20. I’m Superior; I will see Joseph Smith setting on the right hand of GOD, when I get to Mormon heaven, and he will recognize me and judge me favorably                              -- You’re on your own; when you get to wherever you’re going!
21. I’m Superior; I’m going to hie to Kolob -- you’re going to who knows where.
22. I’m Superior; I get to have a harem and act like a celestial stud for time and all eternity -- you don’t.
23. I’m Superior; I have sun stones, moon stones, sky stones, cloud stones, Saturn stones, and the evil eye of Osirus guarding my temple
                            -- all you have is a stupid cross.
24. I’m Superior; My church has billions in assets stashed away -- yours has taken a stupid vow of poverty.
25. I'm Superior; Last - we have the power to keep a whole race out of our priesthood if we wanted to reinsert our 148-year legacy  (we ARE still keeping an entire GENDER at bay!)
26.  I'm superior; I have the "higher law" -- everyone else "lives under the "lesser law' because I say so...(over and over).
 
 
Revision 46.2
Semi-Official creed of the EXclusive club of Freeper Flying Inmans.
All rights liable to be abused.

 

 
 

 

 

 
 

26 posted on 08/10/2010 4:48:30 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (The most daunting challenge for Zero as POTUS is fitting all the speeches in between vacations.)
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To: Kenny Bunk

Wouldn’t know that by the way lds worship him.


27 posted on 08/10/2010 8:55:16 PM PDT by svcw (It's not the situation that matters, it's the attitude toward the situation that matters.)
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To: Marty
Well, I guess they could be correct. Well, except Jesus Christ is entered 32 times and there is a question on how he died. Then not even a so famous person my mom wrong birth date and wrong death place. Oh and those people who are listed as dead who are still alive.
But yea they are accurate.
28 posted on 08/10/2010 8:58:39 PM PDT by svcw (It's not the situation that matters, it's the attitude toward the situation that matters.)
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