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To: Cronos
The New Advent doctrine leaves a lot to be desired.

First He taught them to recognize in Himself the Eternal Son of God. When His ministry was drawing to a close, He promised that the Father would send another Divine Person, the Holy Spirit, in His place. Finally after His resurrection, He revealed the doctrine in explicit terms, bidding them "go and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" (Matthew 28:18). The force of this passage is decisive. That "the Father" and "the Son" are distinct Persons follows from the terms themselves, which are mutually exclusive. The mention of the Holy Spirit in the same series, the names being connected one with the other by the conjunctions "and . . . and" is evidence that we have here a Third Person co-ordinate with the Father and the Son, and excludes altogether the supposition that the Apostles understood the Holy Spirit not as a distinct Person, but as God viewed in His action on creatures
The words translated "Holy Spirit" appear in both Old and New Testaments, as "ruakh haQodesh" (Hebrew and Aramaic) and "hagios pneumos" (Greek). Both mean "holy breath", and whereas God's messengers (angels or often Himself) act and speak, the rare appearances of the "holy spirit" are without word. Jesus' descriptions of the "holy spirit" are in the context of being a part of his composition.
Now in the non-Trinitarian category, we can place the levels as:
  1. Does not believe Jesus is / was God
    1. That he was just a prophet (Muslim inconsistent belief since they believe in the virgin birth)
    2. that Jesus was a mn who got "possessed" by the Holy Spirit who left Him when He was dying (again repeated in the Koran)
    3. DOES believe Jesus is God, but does not hold to the idea that there is a Triune God (God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit as three "persons" i.e. homousia with One divine Nature

All this supposition contradicts a verse from Psalm 82 (verse 6) that Jesus quotes in John 10:34. For reinforcement of those verses, see Deuteronomy 14:1. There is also Romans 8:29, where Jesus is described as "the firstborn among many brethren". How many sons does the Father intend to bring to birth, then? The agent of change is cited as the Holy Spirit, which is a part of God (see John 4:24).
7 posted on 08/14/2010 12:51:04 AM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai

Olog-hai:

Christ is the first-born of many brethren relates to his Human nature, he is the first-born of a new humanity that has been saved by God’s grace, just as the first man Adam caused the downfall of humanity, the second-Adam is the “perfect Man”, i.e. the Divine Person Jesus Christ as a perfect human nature and thus all of us baptized into the Trinity are now the adopted sons and daughters of God adn thus brothers of CHrist. All of us who are baptized into the Trinity and believe in the Holy Trinity and all that has been revealed by Christ are born anew via baptisim which cleanses original sin and all sin, makes us a member of God’s Family, thus brothers and sisters of Chrsit and members of Christ Body the Church.

In summary, the goal of God’s plan of salvation (cf Roman 8: 29-30) is aimed at conforming all who come to know the One True God and believe in him into the image of Christ and thus it is aimed at the final glory of all who put their faith in Christ.


11 posted on 08/14/2010 5:02:33 AM PDT by CTrent1564
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To: Olog-hai; count-your-change; Mad Dawg; Alamo-Girl; Dr. Eckleburg; Iscool
All this supposition contradicts a verse from Psalm 82 (verse 6) that Jesus quotes in John 10:34. For reinforcement of those verses, see Deuteronomy 14:1. There is also Romans 8:29, where Jesus is described as "the firstborn among many brethren". How many sons does the Father intend to bring to birth, then? The agent of change is cited as the Holy Spirit, which is a part of God (see John 4:24).

Psalm 82:6
"I said, 'You are "gods"; you are all sons of the Most High.'
John 10:34
34Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'[e]? 35If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken— 36what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'?
Deuteronomy 14:1
1 You are the children of the LORD your God. Do not cut yourselves or shave the front of your heads for the dead, 2 for you are a people holy to the LORD your God. Out of all the peoples on the face of the earth, the LORD has chosen you to be his treasured possession.
Romans 8:29
29For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
John 4:24
24God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."
Interesting set of excerpts. Let me read these again. Thank you for your viewpoint
23 posted on 08/14/2010 9:45:24 AM PDT by Cronos (Omnia mutantur, nihil interit. "Allah": Satan's current status)
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