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The Islamic and Christian views of Jesus... (How Obama Can be Muslim but Claim Christianity)
Sound Vision.com -- Islamic Info and Products ^

Posted on 08/20/2010 10:07:57 AM PDT by xzins

The Islamic and Christian views of Jesus: a comparison

The person of Jesus or Isa in Arabic (peace be upon him) is of great significance in both Islam and Christianity. However, there are differences in terms of beliefs about the nature and life occurrences of this noble Messenger.

Source of information about Jesus in Islam

Most of the Islamic information about Jesus is actually found in the Quran.

The Quran was revealed by God to Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him), and memorized and written down in his lifetime. Today, anyone who calls him or herself a Muslim believes in the complete authenticity of the Quran as the original revealed guidance from God.

Source of information about Jesus in Christianity

Christians take their information about Jesus from the Bible, which includes the Old and New Testaments.

These contain four biblical narratives covering the life and death of Jesus. They have been written, according to tradition, respectively by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. They are placed at the beginning of the New Testament and comprise close to half of it.

Encyclopedia Britannica notes that none of the sources of his life and work can be traced to Jesus himself; he did not leave a single known written word. Also, there are no contemporary accounts written of his life and death. What can be established about the historical Jesus depends almost without exception on Christian traditions, especially on the material used in the composition of the Gospels of Mark, Matthew, and Luke, which reflect the outlook of the later church and its faith in Jesus.

Below are the views of Islam and Christianity based on primary source texts and core beliefs.

ISLAM

1. Do Muslims believe he was a Messenger of One God? YES

Belief in all of the Prophets and Messengers of God is a fundamental article of faith in Islam. Thus, believing in Prophets Adam, Jesus, Moses, and Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon them) is a requirement for anyone who calls him or herself a Muslim. A person claiming to be a Muslim who, for instance, denies the Messengership of Jesus, is not considered a Muslim.

The Quran says in reference to the status of Jesus as a Messenger:

"The Messiah (Jesus), son of Mary, was no more than a Messenger before whom many Messengers have passed away; and his mother adhered wholly to truthfulness, and they both ate food (as other mortals do). See how We make Our signs clear to them; and see where they are turning away!" (Quran 5:75).

2. Do Muslims believe he was born of a Virgin Mother? YES

Like Christians, Muslims believe Mary, Maria in Spanish, or Maryam as she is called in Arabic, was a chaste, virgin woman, who miraculously gave birth to Jesus.

"Relate in the Book the story of Mary, when she withdrew from her family, to a place in the East. She screened herself from them; then We sent to her Our spirit (angel Gabriel) and he appeared before her as a man in all respects. She said: I seek refuge from you in God Most Gracious (come not near) if you do fear God. He said: Nay, I am only a Messenger from your Lord, to announce to you the gift of a pure son. She said: How shall I have a son, when no man has ever touched me, and I am not unchaste? He said: So it will be, your Lord says: ‘That is easy for Me; and We wish to appoint him as a sign unto men and a Mercy from Us': It was a matter so decreed" (Quran 19:16-21).

3. Do Muslims believe Jesus had a miraculous birth? YES

The Quran says:

"She (Mary) said: ‘O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man has touched me.' He (God) said: ‘So (it will be) for God creates what He wills. When He has decreed something, He says to it only: ‘Be!'- and it is" (3:47).

It should also be noted about his birth that:

"Verily, the likeness of Jesus in God's Sight is the likeness of Adam. He (God) created him from dust, then (He) said to him: ‘Be!'-and he was" (Quran 3:59).

4. Do Muslims believe Jesus spoke in the cradle? YES

"Then she (Mary) pointed to him. They said: ‘How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?' He (Jesus) said: ‘Verily! I am a slave of God, He has given me the Scripture and made me a Prophet; " (19:29-30).

5. Do Muslims believe he performed miracles? YES

Muslims, like Christians believe Jesus performed miracles. But these were performed by the will and permission of God, Who has power and control over all things.

"Then will God say: ‘O Jesus the son of Mary! recount My favor to you and to your mother. Behold! I strengthened you with the Holy Spirit (the angel Gabriel) so that you did speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught you the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel. And behold: you make out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My leave, and you breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by My leave, and you heal those born blind, and the lepers by My leave. And behold! you bring forth the dead by My leave. And behold! I did restrain the children of Israel from (violence to you) when you did show them the Clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said: ‘This is nothing but evident magic' (5:110).

6. Do Muslims believe in the Trinity? NO

Muslims believe in the Absolute Oneness of God, Who is a Supreme Being free of human limitations, needs and wants. He has no partners in His Divinity. He is the Creator of everything and is completely separate from His creation.

God says in the Quran regarding the Trinity:

"People of the Book (Jews and Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, and attribute to God nothing except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only a Messenger of God, and His command that He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in God and in His Messengers, and do not say: ‘God is a Trinity.' Give up this assertion; it would be better for you. God is indeed just One God. Far be it from His glory that He should have a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and in the earth. God is sufficient for a guardian" (Quran 4:171).

7. Do Muslims believe that Jesus was the son of God? NO

"Say: "God is Unique! God, the Source [of everything]. He has not fathered anyone nor was He fathered, and there is nothing comparable to Him!" (Quran 112:1-4).

The Quran also states:

"Such was Jesus, the son of Mary; it is a statement of truth, about which they vainly dispute. It is not befitting to the majesty of God, that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! When He determines a matter, He only says to it, ‘Be' and it is" (Quran 19:34-35).

8. Do Muslims believe Jesus was killed on the cross then resurrected? NO

"“They did not kill him, nor did they crucify him, but they thought they did.” (Quran 4:156) “God lifted him up to His presence. God is Almighty, All-Wise” (Quran 4:157) .

 

CHRISTIANITY

1. Do Christians believe Jesus was a human being and Messenger of God? YES & NO

With the exception of Unitarian Christians, who like all the early followers of Jesus, still do not believe in the Trinity, most Christians now believe in the Divinity of Jesus, which is connected to the belief in Trinity. They say he is the second member of the Triune God, the Son of the first part of the Triune God, and at the same time "fully" God in every respect. 

2. Do Christians believe he was born of a Virgin Mother? YES

A chaste and pious human woman who gave birth to Jesus Christ, the second member of the Trinity, the Son of God, and at the same time "fully" God Almighty in every respect.

Christians believe however, that while she was a virgin, she was married to a man named Joseph (Bible: Matthew:1:18). According to Matthew 1:25, Joseph "kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus".

3. Do Christians believe he had a miraculous birth? YES

"Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows. When His mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together, she was found to be with child by the Holy Spirit" (Bible: Matthew 1:18)

4. Do Christians believe he performed miracles? YES

"And now, Lord, look upon their threats, and grant to thy servants to speak thy word with all boldness, while thou stretches out thy hand to heal, and sign and wonders are performed through the name of thy holy servant Jesus (Bible: Acts 4:30).

Christians believe that Jesus performed these miracles because he was the Son of God as well as the incarnation of God. 

5. Do Christians believe in the Trinity? YES

With the exception of the Unitarian Christians, who do not believe in the Divinity of Christ, the Trinity, according to the Catholic encyclopedia, is the term used for the central doctrine of the Christian religion. The belief is that in the unity of the Godhead there are Three Persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. These three Persons or beings are distinct from each another, while being similar in character: uncreated and omnipotent.

The First Vatican Council has explained the meaning to be attributed to the term mystery in theology. It lays down that a mystery is a truth which we are not merely incapable of discovering apart from Divine Revelation, but which, even when revealed, remains "hidden by the veil of faith and enveloped, so to speak, by a kind of darkness" (Const., "De fide. cath.", iv). The First Vatican Council further defined that the Christian Faith contains mysteries strictly so called (can. 4). All theologians admit that the doctrine of the Trinity is of the number of these. The Catholic Encyclopedia notes that of all revealed truths, this is the most impenetrable to reason.

6. Do Christians believe that Jesus was the son of God? YES

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only Son that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God sent the Son into the world, not to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through Him (Bible: John 3:16).

However, it is interesting to note that the term "son of God" is used in other parts of the Bible to refer to Adam (Bible: Luke 3:38), Israel (Bible: Exodus 4:22) and David (Bible: Psalms 2:7) as well. The creatures of God are usually referred to in the Bible as children of God.

The role of Paul of Tarsus in shaping this belief and the belief in Trinity

The notion of Jesus as son of God is something that was established under the influence of Paul of Tarsus (originally named Saul), who had been an enemy of Jesus, but later changed course and joined the disciples after the departure of Jesus.

Later, however, he initiated a number of changes into early Christian teachings, in contradiction, for instance, to disciples like Barnabas, who believed in the Oneness of God and who had actually lived and met with Jesus.

Paul is considered by a number of Christian scholars to be the father of Christianity due to his additions of the following ideas:

Paul did these things in hopes of winning over the Gentiles (non-Jewish people). His letters are another of the primary sources of information on Jesus according to the Christian tradition.

The original followers of Prophet Jesus opposed these blatant misrepresentations of the message of Jesus. They struggled to reject the notion of the Divinity of Jesus for close to 200 years.

One person who was an original follower of Jesus was Barnabas. He was a Jew born in Cyrus and a successful preacher of the teachings of Jesus. Because of his closeness to Jesus, he was an important member of the small group of disciples in Jerusalem who had had gathered together following the disappearance of Jesus.

The question of Jesus's nature, origin and relationship with God was not raised amongst Barnabas and the small group of disciples. Jesus was considered a man miraculously endowed by God. Nothing in the words of Jesus or the events in his life led them to modify this view.

The Gospel of Barnabas was accepted as a Canonical Gospel in the Churches of Alexandria till 325 CE Iranaeus (130-200) wrote in support of pure monotheism and opposed Paul for injecting into Christianity doctrines of the pagan Roman religion and Platonic philosophy. He quoted extensively from the Gospel of Barnabas in support of his views. This indicates that the Gospel of Barnabas was in circulation in the first and second centuries of Christianity. 

In 325 (CE), a council of Christian leaders met at Nicaea and made Paul's beliefs officially part of Christian doctrine. It also ordered that all original Gospels in Hebrew script which contradicted Paul's beliefs should be destroyed. An edict was issued that anyone in possession of these Gospels would be put to death.

The Gospel of Barnabas has miraculously survived though.

7. Do Christians believe he was killed on the cross? YES

This is a core Christian belief and it relates to the concept of atonement. According to this belief, Jesus died to save mankind from sin. However, this is not stated explicitly in the four gospels which form the primary source texts of Christianity. It is found, however, in Romans 6:8,9.

Christians believe Jesus was spat on, cut, humiliated, kicked, striped and finally hung up on the cross to endure a slow and painful death.

According, to Christian belief, the original sin of Adam and Eve of eating from the forbidden tree was so great that God could not forgive it by simply willing it, rather it was necessary to erase it with the blood of a sinless, innocent Jesus.

Resurrection

The four Gospels and the Epistles of St. Paul are the main sources of Christianity which discuss the Resurrection of Jesus after his crucifixion. According to St. Matthew, Jesus appeared to the holy women, and again on a mountain in Galilee. Mark's Gospel tells a different story: Jesus was seen by Mary Magdalene, by the two disciples at Emmaus, and the Eleven before his Ascension into heaven.

Luke's Gospel says Jesus walked with the disciples to Emmaus, appeared to Peter and to the assembled disciples in Jerusalem. In John's Gospel, Jesus appeared to Mary Magdalene, to the ten Apostles on Easter Sunday, to the Eleven a week later, and to seven disciples at the Sea of Tiberias.

Another account of the resurrection by St. Paul is found in Bible: Corinthians 15: 3-8.

According to Christian belief, Resurrection is a manifestation of God's justice, Who exalted Christ to a life of glory, as Christ had humbled himself unto death (Phil., 2: 8-9). This event also completes the mystery of Christian salvation and redemption. The death of Jesus frees believers from sin, and with his resurrection, he restores to them the most important privileges lost by sin (Bible: Romans 4:25).

More importantly, the belief in the resurrection of Jesus indicates Christian acknowledgment of Christ as the immortal God, the cause of believers' own resurrection (Bible: I Corinthians 4: 21; Phil., 3:20-21), as well as the model and the support of a new life of grace (Bible: Romans 4: 4-6; 9-11).


TOPICS: General Discusssion
KEYWORDS: christianity; imamobama; islam; obama; taqiya; taqiyah; taqiyya
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10 brief points Christians should know about Muslims and Jesus

By Sound Vision Staff Writer

Muslims love Jesus. We also love Abraham, Moses, and Noah, to name just a few other Prophets Muslims revere. May God's peace be upon all of these great messengers of God.

Muslims also love the mother of Jesus, the Virgin Mary. We believe she was a pious and noble woman chosen over all of the women of the world.

Muslims believe that Jesus was born miraculously of a virgin mother and no father. His birth is miraculous like the birth of Adam, the first human being, who was created with neither mother nor father.

Muslims do not believe that Jesus was the son of God. God is so powerful and self-sufficient that He does not need a son or any kind of partner.

In Arabic Bible the name for God is Allah. Therefore all Arab Christian call God Allah as Muslim do as well.

Jesus did not die on the cross. Rather, God saved him as his enemies were confused about him. Jesus was taken up by God to Heaven.

Jesus is called Isa (pronounced Eesa) in Arabic.

Jesus performed miracles by the Will of God, like healing the blind and those with leprosy.

Jesus prayed to the same God as all Prophets and we pray to.

Jesus will return before the end of the world.

1 posted on 08/20/2010 10:07:59 AM PDT by xzins
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To: All; P-Marlowe; Dr. Eckleburg

As one who has monitored mainline, liberal Christianity, it seems very likely that a Muslim in Jeremiah Wright’s liberal United Church of Christ church in Chicago could find sufficient reasons to call himself a Christian.

In fact, many of the Muslim beliefs above surpass those of liberal Christianity that rejects our historic doctrine and faith.


2 posted on 08/20/2010 10:10:06 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it. Those who truly support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: xzins

Obama is neither Muslim nor Christian. He is anti-God.


3 posted on 08/20/2010 10:10:41 AM PDT by anniegetyourgun
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To: anniegetyourgun

I wouldn’t argue with you, but this is more about what he claims.


4 posted on 08/20/2010 10:11:18 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it. Those who truly support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: xzins

Allah was the most powerful of the Sand Djins whose idols were in the B’aal in Mecca. A Djin is a demon. Connect the dots.


5 posted on 08/20/2010 10:13:29 AM PDT by massgopguy (I owe everything to George Bailey)
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To: xzins

His claims are designed to confuse. And just who is the author of confusion? That’s his master.


6 posted on 08/20/2010 10:13:34 AM PDT by anniegetyourgun
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To: xzins

good source of info


7 posted on 08/20/2010 10:14:15 AM PDT by vanilla swirl (We are the Patrick Henry we have been waiting for!)
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To: anniegetyourgun

He lies because his religion allows and condones lying to the infidels if it advances the cause....red


8 posted on 08/20/2010 10:17:31 AM PDT by rednek ("Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.")
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To: xzins
How Obama Can be Muslim but Claim Christianity?

Simple. He can't. The "Jesus" of Islam is NOT the Lord Jesus Christ of the Universe, the Savior of the world and the Alpha and the Omega. The "Jesus" of Islam was superceded by a blood-thirsty, pedophile savage named Muhammad.

9 posted on 08/20/2010 10:19:43 AM PDT by Sister_T ("Calling ILLEGAL aliens "immigrants" is like calling shoplifters 'customers'!"-UCFRoadWarrior ><>)
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To: rednek

No, he lies because there is not truth in him. Furthermore, his master is the father of lies - he who is a liar from the beginning.


10 posted on 08/20/2010 10:19:51 AM PDT by anniegetyourgun
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To: xzins
"Claim" being the operative word. Until he acknowledges Jesus is Christ and the Son of God he just continues to fool those who want to be fooled.

Muhammad (ptewie) knew what he was doing, getting converts was serious business.

11 posted on 08/20/2010 10:20:04 AM PDT by fml
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To: vanilla swirl

Yep, from their own mouths about Jesus.

The UCC is a liberal denomination with a low view of scripture. That is Obama’s denomination....and Jeremiah Wright’s.


12 posted on 08/20/2010 10:21:46 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it. Those who truly support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: Sister_T

However, he can “claim” it.


13 posted on 08/20/2010 10:22:43 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it. Those who truly support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: xzins
But no one mentions the Old Testament which described and told of Jesus. Throughout the old testament the prophecy of Jesus was foretold. So it is not only Matthew, Mark, Luke and John testimonies but the OT as well.
14 posted on 08/20/2010 10:23:19 AM PDT by Bitsy
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To: Bitsy

The OT had a detailed view of Jesus revealed through the prophets. However, if Islam decides to accept some scripture and reject others, then they can put together just about any composite they want.


15 posted on 08/20/2010 10:26:28 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it. Those who truly support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: xzins
I am afraid I challenge the statement that Muslims love Jesus!

As for whether or not Obama is a Christian? It is quite easy to see that he is not, the evidence is more than overwhelming.

His position regarding infanticide, pretty much seals the deal that he is not! Add to that his 20 year association with the Rev Wright NON Christian Church. But really there is really no need to look further than his last 2 appointments to the Supreme Court.

However his pro abortion/pro choice position completely disqualifies him from Christianity at this point.

He can repent this afternoon and ask Jesus into his life, that would be wonderful, I would personally welcome him with open arms if he was to decide to ask Jesus into his life and become a Christian.

His repentance would have to be genuine, he would have to reject all his previous positions on abortion, homosexuality and for his wanting to remove the Bible and Christ from the class room/society etc.

He would have to say publicly that he deeply regrets his 2 picks to the Supreme Court for anybody to take him seriously.

True repentance for Obama would certainly mean sharing Jesus with the world, telling the world that they need Jesus, he is our only hope, we must stop aborting God`s children, we must stop teaching them that it`s OK to be homosexual etc.

Yes it would be wonderful, all things are possible with God, I find it hard to believe that this will happen (forgive me Lord)

What a great Christian witness he could be, if he was only a Christian.

At this point in time sadly he is a NON Christian and in fact an enemy of Christ.

God Bless President Obama, reveal your Son Jesus to him Dear Lord, have mercy on all us sinners.

16 posted on 08/20/2010 10:27:03 AM PDT by Friendofgeorge ( PALIN / HOLTZ 2012 If you vote Democrat you support infanticide)
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To: xzins
In fact, many of the Muslim beliefs above surpass those of liberal Christianity that rejects our historic doctrine and faith.

Outstanding point. Exceedingly sad, but quite true.


Frowning takes 68 muscles.
Smiling takes 6.
Pulling this trigger takes 2.
I'm lazy.

17 posted on 08/20/2010 10:27:04 AM PDT by The Comedian (Evil can only succeed if good men don't point at it and laugh.)
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To: The Comedian

I just saw on another thread a comment that claimed that Obama’s grandmother was Unitarian. If so, he discovered that he could call himself Christian and reject the Trinity.

That would not contradict cultural Islamism at all, and even a believing Islamic could hide in such a church.


18 posted on 08/20/2010 10:33:28 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it. Those who truly support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: The Comedian
“Liberal Christianity” is not Christian, the term is a oxy moron, much in the same way that the term “pro choice/pro abortion Christian” is a oxymoron
19 posted on 08/20/2010 10:34:29 AM PDT by Friendofgeorge ( PALIN / HOLTZ 2012 If you vote Democrat you support infanticide)
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To: xzins

However, if Islam decides to accept some scripture and reject others

Sounds like some Christians as well.


20 posted on 08/20/2010 10:35:22 AM PDT by Bitsy
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To: Bitsy

Sadly, you are right on the money.


21 posted on 08/20/2010 10:37:27 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it. Those who truly support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: xzins

I’d be more inclined to accept muslims as slightly heretical fellow believers in Jesus if they weren’t in the habit of executing Christian converts.

At one time I was inclined to a much more benign view of Islam than I am now.


22 posted on 08/20/2010 10:54:03 AM PDT by marron
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To: xzins

“Down deep within my spirit, and based upon certain revelations and insight that has been given to me through the precious Holy Spirit, I believe that there are several major events that are like large roadblocks on a journey that will stop the momentum of Obama’s administration in its tracks. A trusted man of God told me the night of the election that in 2009 and 2010, things will be like one big party at the White House (indeed, there are continual parties taking place). However, the man of God said something would happen in 2011 that would shake the President and the Lord would personally visit him.

I believe that this will occur. Not that any of us enjoy difficult times. But I am hoping the Lord will change the heart of the leader of the free world from that of an obvious liberal with an agenda that is bent on turning America into a socialist nation or worse, to a true experience with the Lord Jesus Christ. It has become clear that, if you explore his background from the time he was a child to his community organizing in Chicago, his best and closest friends were extreme socialists and Marxists. This is not a careless statement but a fact that has been publicly noted in some of the television and print media for months. Thus, in my opinion, he has surrounded himself with a totally unbalanced group of advisors—both morally and spiritually—and he desperately needs some praying, spiritually discerning, wise leaders to be raised up around him. There need to be people who can speak the proper truth into his life and bring needed rebuke for some of his policies that are doomed to cause America to falter and fail. We need to pray for a Divine visitation.

A Servant of the King,

Perry Stone, Jr.”

http://www.voe.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=335:the-next-surprise-on-the-prophetic-stage&catid=78&Itemid=120


23 posted on 08/20/2010 10:57:09 AM PDT by combat_boots (The Lion of Judah cometh. Hallelujah. Gloria Patri, Filio et Spirito Sancto.)
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To: xzins

Jesus is called Isa (pronounced Eesa) in Arabic.
________________________________________________

Yes but isa or issa means man in Hebrew...iysh

Adam was an “issa” Genesis 1:23

Eve is called “ishshah”...woman...Genesis 2:22

So unless the Moslems are saying Jesus is Da Man...

It really means nothing...

Ask a Moslem if Jesus is God...


24 posted on 08/20/2010 10:57:17 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: marron

I’m not special pleading for Islam. I’m saying that if a politician wanted to do the mental gymnastics, that they could be Muslim, not admit it, but still claim to be Christian. There are plenty of churches that will accept you simply because you’re warm and still breathing. :P)


25 posted on 08/20/2010 10:58:01 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it. Those who truly support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: xzins
The Gospel of Barnabas was accepted as a Canonical Gospel in the Churches of Alexandria till 325 CE Iranaeus (130-200) wrote in support of pure monotheism and opposed Paul for injecting into Christianity doctrines of the pagan Roman religion and Platonic philosophy. He quoted extensively from the Gospel of Barnabas in support of his views. This indicates that the Gospel of Barnabas was in circulation in the first and second centuries of Christianity.

In 325 (CE), a council of Christian leaders met at Nicaea and made Paul's beliefs officially part of Christian doctrine.

This is of course almost totally fictional. The "Gospel of Barnabas" they're talking about is almost certainly a medieval Islamic forgery written to discredit Christianity. No manuscripts of it older than the early 15th C. have ever been found.

Nicaea never "made Paul's beliefs officially part of Christian doctrine," because they had always been part of Christian doctrine from the earliest days.

26 posted on 08/20/2010 10:59:30 AM PDT by Campion
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To: Tennessee Nana

See Islam #7 point in the above article.


27 posted on 08/20/2010 11:00:54 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it. Those who truly support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: Campion

I’m wondering if they meant to say the epistle of Barnabas, but I have no way of checking on them or their sources.


28 posted on 08/20/2010 11:01:59 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it. Those who truly support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: xzins

Christians know that satan can appear as an angel of light to deceive. He also mingles the Truth with lies to deceive. This is evident when he even tried those tricks with Jesus Himself. Satan used the words of God from the Torah and mingled them with lies in an attempt to trick Jesus but he failed.
Satan also tried his hardest to keep Jesus OFF of the cross because he knew the significance - reconcilliation between God and man; but he failed in that too.
So satan in an attempt to deceive people created islam which teaches that Jesus was not on the cross; thus deceiving people away from that reconcilliation with God.
Since satan could not keep Jesus off the cross, the next best thing is to make people believe that he did.
Islam is nothing more than a satanic mingling of Truth and lies to keep people from redemption and reconcilliation with God.


29 posted on 08/20/2010 11:04:21 AM PDT by one of His mysterious ways
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To: one of His mysterious ways

Islam is satanic and anti-Christian.


30 posted on 08/20/2010 11:08:39 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it. Those who truly support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: xzins
This stuff make for interesting conversation, but the facts are that the Muslims that crash planes and blow people up chase whores, get drunk, lie like dogs, and probably even eat some pig sausage somewhere in there. What the Quran says and what they do are often covered by “Do what you want, say what you want, just kill infidels wherever you find them.” Saying he is Christian means nothing if your aim is to destroy the “Great Satan”. If he is successful, he will be worshiped like a god in muzzieland. I don't think some Imam will be calling for his head on a stick.
31 posted on 08/20/2010 11:12:26 AM PDT by chuckles
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To: xzins

The Gospel of Barnabas is an Islamic forgery; the Epistle of Barnabas is a legitimate early Christian document. I wouldn’t be surprised if their sources for the alleged canonicity of the G. of B. were really talking about the E. of B.


32 posted on 08/20/2010 11:12:50 AM PDT by Campion
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To: chuckles
Saying he is Christian means nothing

It means that he is attempting to deceive.

33 posted on 08/20/2010 11:23:34 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it. Those who truly support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: xzins
if a politician wanted to do the mental gymnastics, that they could be Muslim, not admit it, but still claim to be Christian

I do get your point. As I say, I once had a much more benign view of Islam. I had the opportunity to live in Saudi for a little while and made it a point to read the koran while I was there. At the time I focused on the similarities between koran and the two biblical testaments.

And you will meet muslims who are decent and want to do right.

Still, in the local english-language paper where they always list the weekly executions, there are always some who are executed for "blasphemy". My understanding was that blasphemy was for them denying that Mohammed was prophet, but that you could recant at any time up until the blade fell and save your life.

I always asked myself, who given the chance to save his life by simply re-affirming that Mohammed is prophet, would prefer death?

Thats when I realized that despite the impossibility of evangelizing in Saudi Arabia, people are coming to Christ and dying for it. There are churches there, but all underground (and mostly expat). There are priests who smuggle themselves into the country as workers, evangelicals generally organize their own prayer meetings, catholics too who organize prayer meetings on the quiet, but they also get raided periodically. The expats get deported. The priests get imprisoned and then deported. Any Saudis involved face death so I think people generally try not to involve them.

34 posted on 08/20/2010 11:38:25 AM PDT by marron
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To: one of His mysterious ways

I was just hunting a place to post a thought that had entered my mind about Christianity and Islam. That thought had to do with satan’s visit to Jesus in the wilderness and how Jesus rejected everything he offered. I believe it was satan’s voice which mohammed heard, and he obedyed that voice. His followers are the children of the prince of this world. Whether mohammed could be called ‘son of satan’ is one for theologians. In one sense of the phrase, I think it is clear that he was a “son of satan,” as is his followers. They hate, lie and murder without conscience. Christians are commanded to love, be truthful and love our enemies. Polar opposites.


35 posted on 08/20/2010 11:39:19 AM PDT by WVNan
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To: xzins; RnMomof7; the_conscience; Gamecock; Alex Murphy; HarleyD; wmfights; Forest Keeper; ...
Thanks, xzins. This is exactly the kind of article I was looking for.

I gave him the benefit of the doubt before the election and assumed he was a Christian. I no longer believe that. He was born of a muslim father; he was raised as a muslim in Indonesia; he refuses to release any personal identification; and he bowed to Abdullah, no doubt reflexively because that is where his heart lies.

How dumb are we not to see what is right before our eyes?

36 posted on 08/20/2010 11:43:05 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: xzins
Point-by-point ANALYSIS and COMMENTARY:

**********

Muslims love Jesus.

If this was true -- Muslims would LISTEN to Jesus, and embrace His teaching.

If you love me, you will obey what I command.
-- John 14:15

*************

Muslims do not believe that Jesus was the son of God. God is so powerful and self-sufficient that He does not need a son or any kind of partner.

For God so loved the world that He gave his only BEGOTTEN son...
...that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
---from John 3:16 (also read vv.17-18)

************

In Arabic Bible the name for God is Allah.

Therefore all Arab Christian call God Allah as Muslim do as well.

a. The QURAN cannot hold a candle to the Holy Bible as the accepted and true revelation from the Living God. I will debate anywhere -- anytime-- on this point.

b. The Muslim Diety -- aka "Allah".... is NOT the same as the Supreme Deity --- revealed in BIBLICAL Scripture as the God of Abraham, ISAAC, and Jacob-- GOD... and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

***************

Jesus did not die on the cross. Rather, God saved him as his enemies were confused about him. Jesus was taken up by God to Heaven.

THIS IS A "LOGGERHEADS" CONFLICT WITHIN ISLAM -- TOTALLY REJECTING THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS!

The crucifixion of Christ is the atonement for all sins of all men of all time. THose who accept this atonement on their behalf are forgiven of their sins, changed from their sinful nature-- and welcomed into the eternal family of The LORD -- one True and Supreme Deity.

The visible and bodily Resurrection of Jesus is the most extraordinary event in the record of human history.
...wWitnessed and recorded by many witnesses....
It is God's endorsement of acceptance of the payment freely offered thru the Passion and substitutionary sacrifice of Christ by cruel crucifixion.

But when this priest (Jesus)had offered for all time one sacrifice (himself) for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God. -- Hebrews 10:12 (clarification of context added)

And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19 If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men. -- 1 Corinthians 15:18-20

***************

Jesus prayed to the same God as all Prophets and we pray to.

PATENTLY FALSE -- A MAJOR DECEPTION OF ISLAMIC FAITH!

Jesus prayed to His Father--
The One True God... the God of Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, Solomon, Elijah, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Daniel, Ezekiel and the other OT prophets....
He did not pray to the Moon-god Al-ilah (Allah). ***************

Jesus will return before the end of the world.

Yes -- he most certainly will.
And the prophetic insight of the Old Testament, and predictive prophecy (spokem by Christ!) recorded in the New Testament tells us of the signs of His apppearing.

I urge everyone everywhere--
....To read and understand the Gospel;

....To pray to receive Christ as Savior and Lord;

....Forgiven of our sins, we are filled with the Presence and Power of the Holy Spirit-- the seal of God's ownership and ultimate redemption, and God's deposit -- guaranteeing what is yet to come.
(Ephesians 4:30 and 1 Corinthians 1:21-22)

*************

God loves Muslims and He is patient with Muslims and Arabs, as he is also patient with all mankind:

The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness.

He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
--2 Peter 3:9

*************

ONE LAST THOUGHT ADDED TO YOUR LIST:

But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.
--2 Peter 3:10

**************

The Holy Bible is either the inspired Word of God -- or it is not.

Jesus is either exactly who he claims to be--The Lord God; Or...
He is a Liar and/oor a Lunatic...

***********

There is no "YES -- BUT"...

There is no "MAYBE -- AND PERHAPS"

He is coming to claim His Bride -- those found faithful and worshipping Christ alone.

Islamic apologists...
-- Time to make up your mind

*************

I am done....

Someone take the offering and dismiss us with a kind word of gladness!

37 posted on 08/20/2010 11:43:27 AM PDT by Wings-n-Wind (The main things are the plain things!)
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To: anniegetyourgun
He's definitely anti-Christian.

Thank You Satan 1:51☠


38 posted on 08/20/2010 11:50:34 AM PDT by rawcatslyentist (Jeremiah 50:31 Behold, I am against you, O you most proud, said the Lord God of hosts.)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; Wings-n-Wind

His lips say one thing, but everything else screams: “Obama is a Muslim”.

I’d be tempted to say, “typical politician”, but this is dangerous.

We don’t need a president who worships a false god (allah),


39 posted on 08/20/2010 12:04:31 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it. Those who truly support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; xzins; RnMomof7; the_conscience; Gamecock; Alex Murphy; HarleyD; wmfights; ...

“he bowed to Abdullah, no doubt reflexively because that is where his heart lies”

I don’t think “religion” has anything to do with it except as a means to unite disparate groups. He uses it more as a tool for power than as a personal approach to his god. Look at all he has thrown under the bus including his former pastor.


40 posted on 08/20/2010 12:06:58 PM PDT by blue-duncan
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To: blue-duncan

Yes, he is nothing if not a creature of expediency.

And he’s on another vacation, this time to Martha’s Vineyard. How about saving tax payers some money and heading to Camp David? Or to some stricken area that might need the big bucks he’s spending, like the Gulf Coast?

Obama is truly tone deaf. I’m just surprised that apparently everyone else around him is, too.


41 posted on 08/20/2010 12:13:45 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; xzins

Thanks for the ping!


42 posted on 08/20/2010 12:17:43 PM PDT by Christian_Capitalist (Taxation over 10% is Tyranny -- 1 Samuel 8:17)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

Man that picture makes me angry.


43 posted on 08/20/2010 12:23:04 PM PDT by TSgt (And the war came.)
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To: blue-duncan; Dr. Eckleburg; P-Marlowe; RnMomof7; the_conscience; Gamecock; Alex Murphy; HarleyD; ...
a means to unite disparate groups. He uses it more as a tool for power than as a personal approach to his god

All of this does make one wonder who his god is. Just as easy to give a head-fake to islam as it is to Christianity. As a communist he would believe in the collision of economic forces. Ultimately, I think we'll conclude that he believes in his own divinity. Which explains why he's so eager to throw anyone and anything under the bus.

44 posted on 08/20/2010 12:45:36 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it. Those who truly support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: marron
I always asked myself, who given the chance to save his life by simply re-affirming that Mohammed is prophet, would prefer death?

They do exist, and they deserve our prayer. Thank you for the reminder.

45 posted on 08/20/2010 12:48:16 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it. Those who truly support our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: markomalley; NYer; Natural Law; Salvation

Would one of you mind pinging the Catholic ping list?

Perhaps a this is a thread that all Christian faiths could come to some consensus?

Or is that just crazy talk? ;-)

TGIF and FRegards,

TSgt


46 posted on 08/20/2010 12:58:40 PM PDT by TSgt (And the war came.)
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To: xzins

Excellent thread, thanks for posting it.

Obama’s claims of being a Christian have always reminded me of the blatantly homosexual celebrities and their “lavender marriages.”


47 posted on 08/20/2010 1:06:57 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: TSgt; xzins
Perhaps a this is a thread that all Christian faiths could come to some consensus?

No need. The muslims have already come to a consensus. Whether you are Greek, Roman, or West Texas Baptist, the muslims see us all the same.

And when a muslim accepts Christ, they don't ask him which sect before they lop off his head.

48 posted on 08/20/2010 1:12:14 PM PDT by marron
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To: TSgt
"Would one of you mind pinging the Catholic ping list?"

I'm not going to do it because I don't want to participate in or contribute another Catholic bashing exercise. I've already spent way too much time explaining JPII's Abrahamic God reference in these threads.

49 posted on 08/20/2010 1:18:59 PM PDT by Natural Law (Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus)
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To: Natural Law

There was no malice in my request but if you believe it could turn into a raging Protestant vs Catholic war then I understand.

Just trying to lighten the mood.

It’s Friday Natural Law!

FRegards,

TSgt


50 posted on 08/20/2010 1:22:15 PM PDT by TSgt (And the war came.)
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