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Glenn Beck, 8/28, Harold Camping, Passion Week Prophecy
VANITY | The Theophilus

Posted on 08/27/2010 7:54:52 PM PDT by The Theophilus

Harmonizing Harold Camping, Glenn Beck, 8/28 and the Passion Week as a Type

Harold Camping has recently given us his assurances that with the proper calculations we can be confident in our expectations to see the return of our LORD on May 21, 2011. Dispensationalists have the well earned reputation in providing us with date settings, and through the myriad of prophecy conferences where self-proclaimed experts are willing to share their updates in exchange for our time and money, I thought, as a Realized Millennialist, “how can I get in on this action” ?

So with heavy borrowing of the Dispensationalist’s ad hoc hermeneutics and with a dose of old fashioned interpretation of orthodox doctrines, I would like to take another recent phenomena event and apply a Dispensationalist interpretation template upon it and demonstrate how Camping may be correct in his late Spring prognostication.

As we all know, being that the United States has the greatest population density of Christians in the world, and because the United States is Israel’s best friend and ally, it is perfectly acceptable to read Old Testament Prophecies and insert contemporary leaders and events into the prophetic statements of Daniel, Jeremiah, Isaiah, Ezekiel, and Zechariah. Within the borders of the United States, there is a denomination that has recently claimed to be Christian, insisting that we, the traditional visible Church, set aside our “minor” theological differences because saving America from the heathen Progressives is more important than quibbling over petty things like the Divinity of Jesus Christ and the nature of God.

In the past few years, a prominent radio and television personality, a professing Mormon, has organized a Faith Rally to be held in Washington D.C. on August 28th, 2010. This article will take the Scriptures, the Dispensational Hermeneutic, and Glenn Beck’s 8/28 Washington D.C. Rally and prove beyond doubt to the high standards of today’s Evangelical Prophecy Students Harold Camping’s bold prophetic announcement. In Mormon folklore, there is a not well substantiated claim that on or about May 6, 1843 in the presence of at least two Mormons, Edwin Rushton and Theodore Turley, the founder of the Latter Day Saints movement, Joseph Smith, stated in effect that “the time would come when the Constitution of our country would hang as it were by a thread, and that the Latter-day Saints above all other people in the world would come to the rescue of that great and glorious palladium of our liberty” (Conference Report, October 1912, p.10)

This has since then been referred to as the “White Horse Prophecy” where the legend has evolved to a state where one man who “has ears to hear and eyes to see can discern by the Spirit and through the words of God’s mouthpiece that our liberties are being taken” (Conference Report, April 1963, p.113) will rise up and restore the Constitution and the liberties contained within. In certain evangelical circles, there is much speculation that Glenn Beck sees himself as that White Horse Rider who will stand in the gap, take the slings and arrows, and lay his life on the line to restore the Constitution.

Mormon teaching, among other things, provides pathways for mortal men to ascend to the level of a god, even to the level of achievement and divinity is the god-man Jesus Christ, who once was mortal like us. So it would not be any stretch of imagination, nor would it be violent to LDS teachings for Glenn Beck to see himself as earning his Godhood ranking through serving as the White Horse Prophet. Now in Biblical Eschatology, who rides the White Horse?

Harold Camping is predicting the Return of our LORD. I as one who does not subscribe to chiliasm, I believe the return of our LORD is the return in Judgment. In the first century, or the Present Age, Jesus Christ came in the flesh to conquer Hell and Death on the cross. On his next and last return, marking the full realization of the Age to Come, He will come to Judge. There are parallels in the Passion Week of Jesus Christ leading up to the most prophesized event on the Cross, and the short time between now and The Final Judgment.

The first event is when our LORD came to Jerusalem, from the town of Bethpage on the Mount of Olives, riding on a donkey. This has been mistakenly called the “Triumphant Entry”, the error is that He is riding a donkey, which is the cultural expression, not of a conqueror, but a peaceful King. The triumphant conquering King is riding a White Horse, which is what we read in Revelation 6:2. It should not be a surprise that the White Horse Prophecy of Revelation, marking the return of our LORD in Judgment coincides with the White Horse Prophecy of Joseph Smith embodied by Glenn Beck’s triumphal entry into Washington D.C.

When the people came out to see our LORD, though many thought that He would come with the recently raised from the dead Lazarus, they treated Him as a visiting King, coming out of the city to meet him descending from the Mount of Olives, stripping off their clothes and laying that and palm branches along His path to the political city of Jerusalem. Many, who had traveled far to be a part of the Passover Feast, saw Him as the promised King of David who through the power of God, would restore the Kingdom of Israel and Judah to its former glory, a gesture which would make necessary casting off the oppressive Roman Empire.

In 1 Thessalonians 4:17 we read the famous “rapture” passage claimed by Dispensationalists as the silent rapture of the Church. In reality, what we read is a similar greeting by the surviving Church where we leave “the city” to meet Him in the air and accompany Him to Jerusalem where He will fulfill His role as conqueror and judge.

Glenn Beck will be descending from the heavens into Washington D.C., the political capital of the United States, probably in a white jet, where he will be greeted by a large multitude of people who like both appearances of our LORD to the political capital will be greeted by many people who have traveled far away to be in the city for a special spiritual event. Because the event is in Washington DC in August, it will likely be warm and sunny so that people will be removing layers of clothes to keep cool and will place coverings on the ground.

When our LORD entered into Jerusalem, he was confronted by many people who wanted Him dead because He was leading the people away from their teachings, their power over the people were directly threatened, yet they did not kill Him because of His popularity with the people. When our LORD returns again in Judgment, He will again be confronted with many people who hate Him and His judgment will result in them losing their power (for all eternity).

Likewise, Glenn Beck will be entering a city normally full of political leaders who hate him and wish him dead, his message is designed to draw people away from the Progressive leadership, yet his accusers will do nothing because of their fear of the multitudes who love him and his teachings.

During the week where Jesus was teaching in the Temple, he cursed the Scribes and Pharisees for their elitism, and their hypocrisy, legislating and “binding heavy burdens, hard to bear, and laying them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers” (Mat 23:4) What is the point of the Tea Parties? It is a crowd of people who are weary of the heavy legislative burdens laid upon their shoulders, laws that are oppressive, yet are not born by the men who made these laws. What is a major theme in Glenn Beck’s ministry? To curse the legislators who oppress the people of Faith. Glenn Beck identifies himself and the Tea Party with Moses and the Hebrews. What was Moses’ complaint? That the burdens were too great upon his people, and that the tyrannical forces should “let my people go”.

In one scene our LORD witnesses a poor person giving up the last of her coins to donate to the Temple., and our LORD commented on the fact that she gave the last she had. Glenn Beck has also received eight pennies (mites?) from someone who gave to the 8/28 project - the last that they had.

What else was taught that week? Why the Pharisees confronted our LORD regarding the paying of Taxes (Matt 22:16-22). He condemned the lawyers and politicians for their abuse on the retired and those in need, denying them real justice and trying to take the last of their possessions for their own benefit and glory. (Matt 23:14) Our LORD turned over the tables of the money changers in the Temple rebuking them for their defiling the Temple. What will Glenn Beck be against? The corrupt bureaucracy of the political class that extorts, cheats and defiles their offices and trusts given to them. Both Jesus Christ and Glenn Beck talk about gold, blindness and swearing an oath (Matt 23:16-17). The event will be held in front of the Lincoln Memorial which looks very much like a Temple. Jesus taught the people from the Temple. Glenn Beck will be teaching from a place that looks like and is given the same sanctity of a Temple. His denomination even calls their house of worship a Temple. His denomination is a particularly troublesome matter for they deny the Deity of Jesus Christ and consider Him a created being. Denying the Deity of Jesus Christ and mischaracterizing the relationship of Jesus Christ and the Father is of the spirit of AntiChrist. (1 John 2:22) So here we will have Glenn Beck, one who sees himself as the rider on the White Horse, who is a deceiver about Christ standing in a Temple-like structure, and if he is consistent with his Mormon theology, will be speaking blasphemies just as predicted by our LORD. (Matthew 24:15) I’m not going to be so bold to connect those dots and say that Glenn Beck is the Anti Christ, that exercise is for the reader.

Yet its not fair to assign all of these things to Glenn Beck, for he is one of many, perhaps millions who share and will express the same sentiments. We are told that this is not a political rally, that there will not be politicians speaking, that this will be a spiritual awakening. There are many parallels between Jesus Christ and Glenn Beck. It would be unreasonable to paint Glenn Beck as a Messiah figure since he will be one of many, rather, the Tea Party in its spiritual role, will embody many of these remarkable parallels. And why not? For many within the Tea Party identify themselves as Christians, or “little Christs” therefore, would it not be appropriate for little Christs to conduct themselves in the manner of their namesake? Those in attendance at the rally have sworn to be peaceful, to not bring signs, to not speak out against the accusers – this is not intended to be a political rally. Is this not exactly how our LORD handled himself before His accusers in court when he was being attacked by His enemies? He did not repel the blows; He did not speak out against His accusers; He was silent and raised no political challenges – especially when He was accused of a political agenda to overthrow the authorities.

Long after the event, the Tea Party and those who attended 8/28 are expected to continue to be model citizens, to not return violence for violence, so that no one will have an excuse for their false accusations. What else have we learned? Glenn Beck teaches us to prepare, to have adequate food and supplies to make it through the hard times. Many others who see the troubles we are soon to engage encourage gathering of clothing and weapons. During this Passion Week in Luke 22:35-38 our LORD asks His disciples if they ever had to worry about money, food or clothes, and they said “No”. This is like the United States before the current regime brought about hard times, we had plenty and were in want of nothing. Then Jesus told them to now get a money bag, to fill an emergency pack with food, to gather up additional garments, and to arm themselves in preparation for possible violence.

Now for Prophecy You Can Use.

On the first Tuesday of November of 2010, the American people will have a chance to drive the money-changers out of the Temple. In Scriptures we read that the political class was given a chance to let the holy and righteous one, the Man without sin or fault go with only a chastisement, yet they chose to pardon a notorious terrorist. I predict, in the spirit of the remarkable parallels in our LORD’s last week of ministry to the last “week” before the End that the political leadership will make deals to release terrorists from the consequences of their action. Could this be the White House giving a green light to nuclear Iran to prosecute a war against Israel? Remember, their leader is desirous to bring about the Apocalypse. Harold Camping is predicting the Last Day in May, how much time does Ahmadijinhad have to hold up his end of this Islamic prophecy?

In Luke 22:24-28 we read that there was a dispute among the Disciples regarding which of them should be considered the greatest. I predict that in the coming months we will see a visible and animated dispute among those in the Tea Party movement as to who is the greatest. There will be political deals made at this time.

There is a strong contrast in the mob’s reaction to Jesus Christ at the beginning of the Passion Week, and the moment before he was condemned to crucifixion. In the beginning, they were treating Him as King with great expectations, in the end the same people were screaming and demanding His blood, crying out “May His blood be on us and on our children”. There is really only one way to explain this otherwise unbelievable change in heart. In Revelation 20 we read that Satan has been bound for a thousand years. Traditional teachings of the End Times tell us that in order for the robber to plunder the strong man’s home, he must first be bound. This illustration is made to show the necessity of binding Satan so that the Gospel message can go throughout the world so that the Devil’s home can be plundered of his people to be taken by our LORD. In v 3, we read “but after these things, he must be released for a while”. I submit that the reaction of the crowd came under the direct influence of Satan who had not been bound yet (but would be as the Apostles went out with the power to bind). In like manner, as we read in Revelation 20, Satan, who since the days of the Apostles, has been bound, will suddenly be released to once again “deceive the nations”. In the days preceeding the Camping Expectation, lawlessness will increase because the lame duck Progressives will implement as a demonic parting shot at destroying the Republic, all sorts of evil: VAT tax, Cap and Tax, Amnesty, and other horrors too obscene to mention here.

This final display of evil and wickedness will bring about the rebellion and violence that has overtaken the world. Like the people who once praised our LORD and then demanded His death, the American people, who now largely agree with the Tea Party will turn upon Patriots and lovers of the Republic with a demon inspired lethal and violent intent.

When extrapolating the days to week ratio between the Passion Week and the time span between 8/28 and the November elections, its easy to see how May 21, 2011 is well within the appointed time to adequately fit the accomplished work of Christ on the Cross. May 21, 2011 corresponds well to the Final Judgment of Christ on the rebellious nations.

Maranatha.


TOPICS: Current Events; Ecumenism; Humor; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: 828; antichrist; beck; glennbeck; haroldcamping; lds; mormon; prophecy

1 posted on 08/27/2010 7:54:54 PM PDT by The Theophilus
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To: The Theophilus

Oh great. That’s all we need.


2 posted on 08/27/2010 7:56:24 PM PDT by sinanju
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To: The Theophilus

oye vea.


3 posted on 08/27/2010 8:00:55 PM PDT by Lazlo in PA
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To: The Theophilus

Harold Camping is still around?


4 posted on 08/27/2010 8:09:09 PM PDT by Fred Hayek (FUBO! I salute you with the soles of my shoes!)
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To: The Theophilus
No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

Matthew 24:36 & 37 (NIV)

5 posted on 08/27/2010 8:09:16 PM PDT by two23 (Liberals Have Created a Culture of Lies)
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To: The Theophilus

Never thought I’d ever see the names Glenn Beck and Harold Camping in the same title.
This is sure to set a record for FR-—I’d guess possibly ten thousand replies.


6 posted on 08/27/2010 8:16:41 PM PDT by supremedoctrine ("Every election is like an advance auction sale of stolen goods"--H.L.Mencken)
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To: The Theophilus

Never thought I’d ever see the names Glenn Beck and Harold Camping in the same title.
This is sure to set a record for FR-—I’d guess possibly ten thousand replies.


7 posted on 08/27/2010 8:17:10 PM PDT by supremedoctrine ("Every election is like an advance auction sale of stolen goods"--H.L.Mencken)
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To: The Theophilus

So, in case this was not a tongue in cheek endeavor, you are saying that Glenn Beck is fulfilling Harold Camping’s prediction that the Lord will return in May of 2011? Given the fact that the archetype of the suffering servant can be applied to many martyrs, I am not sure how this refers exclusively to Beck. I still think you are kidding.


8 posted on 08/27/2010 8:18:09 PM PDT by sueuprising
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To: The Theophilus
LOL! Passion Week is in April of 2011 And Easter follows that on April 24th.

**May 21, 2011** leads me to say that this person is a false prophet.

9 posted on 08/27/2010 8:19:19 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: The Theophilus

Harold Camping predicts the day the Lord will return every few years, and of course he is wrong every time. The Bible clearly says that this will happen when no one, not even Camping, expects it.


10 posted on 08/27/2010 8:24:31 PM PDT by beethovenfan (If Islam is the solution, the "problem" must be freedom.)
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To: Salvation
Passover and "Easter" are unrelated. The 14th of Nisan is April 18th in 2011. That "Easter" is even close in 2011 is purely a coincidence.

For the record, "Passover" is often mentioned in Scripture. "Easter" is not.
11 posted on 08/27/2010 8:34:43 PM PDT by Tzfat
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To: Tzfat

Jesus was crucified, died, and resurrected during Passover Week. The Last Supper was a Passover supper.

“Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!” - John the Baptist.

So the celebration of Easter at Passover time is not at all coincidence, but coincides with the Jewish calendar passover. A date that is not the subject of controversy.


12 posted on 08/27/2010 8:42:15 PM PDT by Persevero (Homeschooling for Excellence since 1992)
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To: The Theophilus

Only a false prophet would name a date certain. Put this one on ignore because he hasn’t tested all things again the Word of God. And, remember - if a “prophet” isn’t getting his messages from God, he’s getting them from Satan.


13 posted on 08/27/2010 8:44:02 PM PDT by anniegetyourgun
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To: The Theophilus

You’ve been a Freeper a whole two months. What is this stuff you’re posting? Sounds a little crazytown to me.


14 posted on 08/27/2010 9:00:49 PM PDT by mplsconservative (I stand with Israel.)
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To: two23

You are not reading the verse properly. If read in context it actually says, that if you don’t ‘watch’ the day will come upon you unaware’. The opposite is also true. If you do watch, you will know the season, day and hour etc, It’s not a verse that should ever be lazily quoted alone. It’s obvious that we will know the day hour etc,


15 posted on 08/27/2010 9:04:48 PM PDT by STD (Witnessing Another Greek Tragedy as Our Chief Executive Implodes.)
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To: two23

You are not reading the verse properly. If read in context it actually says, that if you don’t ‘watch’ the day will come upon you unaware’. The opposite is also true. If you do watch, you will know the season, day and hour etc, It’s not a verse that should ever be lazily quoted alone. It’s obvious that we will know the day hour etc,


16 posted on 08/27/2010 9:06:47 PM PDT by STD (Witnessing Another Greek Tragedy as Our Chief Executive Implodes.)
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To: Tzfat
When is Passover 2011

When is Passover in 2011?

Passover in 2011 will start on Tuesday, the 19th of April and will continue for 7 days until Monday, the 25th of April.


17 posted on 08/27/2010 9:13:23 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Tzfat
That "Easter" is even close in 2011 is purely a coincidence.

It's not "coincidence" at all. The 14th day of Nisan is the 14th day after the new moon, so it's at or very close to a full moon. Easter is the Sunday after the first full moon after the vernal equinox, March 22. It's basically the same dating system, adjusted (a) to fall on a Sunday; and (b) adjusted to be computable from the Greco-Roman solar calendar instead of from the Hebrew lunar calendar.

And, BTW, if Easter and Passover are unrelated, why is Easter called "Passover" in Greek, Latin, and every language derived from Latin?

18 posted on 08/27/2010 9:26:41 PM PDT by Campion
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To: The Theophilus

Oh dear God...

Harold Camping is NOT a recognized nor reputable “Dispensationalist.”

In addition, date setting for the Return of Christ is FORBIDDEN by Christ Himself — doing so is a SIN. And BELIEVING someone who sets such a date is FOOLISH.

Finally, as Children of God, we are to be AWAKE and ALWAYS PREPARED for the RETURN of the Lord as though it could happen at ANY MOMENT — because it COULD (Matthew 25). At the SAME TIME, we are to continue with our WORK HERE in building HIS KINGDOM until He comes, because He instructs us to “Occupy till I come.”

The time of His Return is in the Hands of the Sovereign in heaven. It is a FOOL’S game to guess that day for any man on earth, and a FOOL’S folly to to follow such a man! Mark him and avoid him!

Just Trust Christ, be READY! And when Jesus GETS HERE, BELIEVE ME, you will KNOW IT!


19 posted on 08/27/2010 10:55:47 PM PDT by patriot preacher
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To: Campion

Please explain why the Nicean canons intentionally forbid the biblical Passover when deriving the date for the pagan holiday of Easter. Please explain why there was even such a thing as the Quartodecimian Controversy in the 2nd Century. The fact is, considerable church history was spent trying to stamp out the celebration of the biblical Passover, and disconnecting from Passover on the common calendar was mandated in the Nicean decrees. It is not as simple as your “it’s the full moon” excuse.


20 posted on 08/28/2010 6:13:37 AM PDT by Tzfat
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To: Salvation

Read your Bible. Passover begins late on the 14th of Aviv (or Nisan). That is the day before, or April 18, 2011. What you are reading is the Feast of Unleavened Bread, which begins on the 15th of Nisan (sunset on the 14th of Nisan). In the Bible, the day begins at sunset. Because Passover precedes Unleavened Bread by only a few hours, they became synonymous, but it is incorrect to say Passover begins on April 19, 2011because then it would be celebrated a day late.


21 posted on 08/28/2010 6:23:10 AM PDT by Tzfat
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To: The Theophilus

There are so many things in error in that article one wouldn’t even know where to begin.


22 posted on 08/28/2010 6:55:19 AM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: Tzfat

“For the record, “Passover” is often mentioned in Scripture. “Easter” is not”

Easter was started 2000 years before Christ and is a pagan holiday.


23 posted on 08/28/2010 6:57:31 AM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear
There are so many things in error in that article one wouldn’t even know where to begin.

Of course there are, its SATIRE, making light of modern Premillennial Dysfunctionalism's taste for finding future prophecy in places where it wasn't meant to be. If any passage can be interpreted to be future, then why can't I play the same game?

24 posted on 08/28/2010 8:20:49 AM PDT by The Theophilus
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To: The Theophilus

The man from Nazareth is not coming back. When The Messiah comes, his name will not be Iesous.


25 posted on 08/28/2010 5:17:27 PM PDT by blasater1960
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To: CynicalBear

“Easter” refers to the orientation of churches (”ad orientatum” (sp?)) in anticipation of the risen Christ coming from Jerusalem. The name is used only in English lands, although the British historian Bede was of the opinion that it related to some pagan month, long since forgotten even in his time. Bede was probably mistaken, however, because there is no other historical record of such a holiday, certainly none that so far predated Christ.

Bede was not asserting that Easter was related to such a holiday. The Brythons to which he refers would have been unknown to the early Christians who celebrated paschach; he was only asserting that the name carried over, much the way that secularists still use the word, “holiday (holy day).” (It’s also quite probable that Christianity was far older in England than Bede thought possible, since Bede believed it was established in England only by Augustine of Canterbury.)

Throughout the Catholic world, it is known by some variation of the word, “paschach,” meaning “passover.”

The Nicene Council did establish that the Catholic Church shall celebrate Easter according to the Roman (solar) calendar, rather than the lunar calendar. From the very wording of the Council, and of Constantine’s aggressive letter commending it, one can obviously see that the practice was already well established. However, there were judaizers who were trying to enforce the adoption of the Jewish calendar in the Roman world. Hence, Constantine’s letter is rather harsh against them.


26 posted on 09/01/2010 3:59:23 AM PDT by dangus
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To: dangus

Under the definition for Easter inWebster’s Dictionary (College Edition)one finds: “originally the name of pagan vernal festival . . . Eastre, dawn goddess.”Further reading in an encyclopaedia, or most books on the holidays will identify this Eastre with the pagan goddess known variously as Eostre, Ishtar, Semeramis, and Astarte. This is the same Babylonian “Queen of Heaven,”whose worship is condemned in the Word of God (see Jeremiah Chapters 7 and 44).

Read what God says about the Queen of Heaven.


27 posted on 09/01/2010 5:58:19 AM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear
>> Under the definition for Easter inWebster’s Dictionary (College Edition)one finds: “originally the name of pagan vernal festival . . . Eastre, dawn goddess.” <<

As noted in my comments about Bede. You'll also note that the holiday is only called Easter in English-speaking lands. From Wikipedia, about Eostre:

Old English Ēostre (also Ēastre) and Old High German Ôstarâ are the names of a putative Germanic goddess whose Anglo-Saxon month, Ēostur-monath, has given its name to the festival of Easter. Eostre is attested only by Bede, in his 8th century work De temporum ratione, where he states that Ēostur-monath was the equivalent to the month of April, and that feasts held in her honour during Ēostur-monath had died out by the time of his writing, replaced by the "Paschal month". The possibility of a Common Germanic goddess called *Austrōn- was examined in detail in 19th century Germanic philology, by Jacob Grimm and others, without coming to a definite conclusion.

Linguists have identified the goddess as a Germanic form of the recontructed Proto-Indo-European goddess of the dawn, *Hausos, some scholars have debated whether or not Eostra is an invention of Bede's,

>> Further reading in an encyclopaedia, or most books on the holidays will identify this Eastre with the pagan goddess known variously as Eostre, Ishtar, Semeramis, and Astarte. This is the same Babylonian “Queen of Heaven,”whose worship is condemned in the Word of God (see Jeremiah Chapters 7 and 44). <<

By this, you mean the uneducated rantings of new-agers and radical fringe Christians, like the Branch Davidians. Astarte/Ishtar is associated with Aphrodite (Greek) and Venus (Latin). The Greco-Roman God of the dawn was Eos / Aurora. The word, "East" comes from "Eos." "Easter" was that which prompted one to East. Bede probably mistook the great antiquity of the Paschal month for having some pagan antecedents, given the name "Eostre," especially given the word's pagan routs, but again, I emphasize, Bede is the only historical record anywhere of any supposed Byrthonic god "Eostre."

28 posted on 09/01/2010 6:15:23 AM PDT by dangus
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To: dangus

“I emphasize, Bede is the only historical record anywhere of any supposed Byrthonic god “Eostre.”

Other then the numerous references in the Bible to the “Queen of heaven.

Believe as you wish. I leave it up to the Spirit of God to lead.


29 posted on 09/01/2010 6:31:18 AM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear

>>>> “I emphasize, Bede is the only historical record anywhere of any supposed Byrthonic god “Eostre.” <<<<

>> Other then the numerous references in the Bible to the “Queen of heaven. <<

Not one of which has anything to do with Eostre, Easter, or the Brittons.

>> Believe as you wish. I leave it up to the Spirit of God to lead. <<

To where? Senselessly attacking other Christians for celebrating the Resurrection of Christ? If so, that’s not the HOLY Spirit doing the leading.


30 posted on 09/01/2010 7:13:23 AM PDT by dangus
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To: CynicalBear; dangus
No one knows where the word "Easter" originally comes from. What we do know is that it is a Germanic word that is not attested earlier than the 600s and that it is based on the root Germanic word "est", which means "east" and can also mean, metaphorically, "dawn" (since the sun rises in the east).

The day that English-speakers call "Easter" was called "Pascha" by Latin-speaking and Greek-speaking Christians, a transliteration of the Hebrew word "Pesach" - Passover.

Both the Jewish Pesach and the Christian Pascha are determined in relation to the vernal equinox.

Pesach begins on the first full moon after the vernal equinox and Easter begins on the first Sunday following the first full moon after the vernal equinox.

The word "Easter" ("Oster" in Germany) was applied by Germanic Christians to the feast of the Pascha ("Pascua" in Spanish, "Pasqua" in Italian, "Paques" in French, "Pascoa" in Portuguese, "Caisc" in Irish) centuries after it was first celebrated.

The dating of the Pascha has nothing to do with either Germanic paganism or that of the peoples that surrounded the Hebrews, but with the Hebrew calendar.

Also, the chief goddess of the Germanic pagans was Odin's wife, named "Frigga" - if the term "Queen of Heaven" had any meaning for Germanic pagans, it would have meant Frigga, not a goddess named "Easter" (of whom not one contemporary record exists).

Also, while the word "easter" may mean "dawn" in Old Germanic, "Astarte", "Ashtaroth" or "Ishtar" are not Germanic names, but Semitic ones. These names are the names of the "evening star" - that is, Venus. Historically, the pagan feasts for these goddesses were celebrated at harvest time in the fall, not during the spring.

31 posted on 09/01/2010 7:28:38 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: dangus

“To where? Senselessly attacking other Christians for celebrating the Resurrection of Christ? If so, that’s not the HOLY Spirit doing the leading.”

Are you proposing to judge what the Holy Spirit is saying?

I simply point to scripture and what it says.


32 posted on 09/01/2010 7:35:28 AM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: wideawake

Better study ancient history. It started much earlier then you indicate.

Basically, almost every vile, profane and idolatrous practice you can think of originated at Babel with Queen Semiramis, the Mother Goddess and Nimrod. As the people scattered from Babel with their different languages, they, of course, used different names for Nimrod (Tammuz) and Semiramis. Some called the Mother Goddess “ISHTAR” (originally pronounced “Easter”). In other lands, she was called Eostre, Astarte, Ostera, and Eastre. Other names for Semiramis, the Mother Goddess include: Wife of Baal, Ashtaroth or Ashtoreth, and Queen of Heaven. The Mother goddess was frequently worshipped as the goddess of fertility - and as a sort of Mother Nature and goddess of spring and sexual love and birth. She was also worshipped as a mediator between god and man. Sexual orgies and temple prostitutes were often used in her worship and in attempting to gain her favor.

Noah’s great grandson was on this earth well before the time period you reference. Nimrod and his wife Semiramis and her illegitimate son Tamuz are well documented in the Bible as is God’s wrath concerning them.


33 posted on 09/01/2010 7:50:33 AM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear

>> I simply point to scripture and what it says. <<

The scripture says, “goddess of Heaven.” King James, reasonably, says, “Queen of Heaven.” Your own imagination says “Eostre.” You’re abuse of scripture is astounding.


34 posted on 09/01/2010 9:12:57 AM PDT by dangus
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To: CynicalBear

>> I simply point to scripture and what it says. <<

The scripture says, “goddess of Heaven.” King James, reasonably, says, “Queen of Heaven.” Your own imagination says “Eostre.” You’re abuse of scripture is astounding.


35 posted on 09/01/2010 9:13:02 AM PDT by dangus
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To: CynicalBear; dangus
Better study ancient history. It started much earlier then you indicate.

Rather than telling others to study ancient history, perhaps you should rely on some other historical source than Alexander Hislop (or possibly his imitator Dave Hunt).

Can you read Hebrew, CB? How about Greek, Latin, Old English or Old Norse?

Is your expert knowledge of "ancient history" based on reading documents in their original languages?

Nimrod and his wife Semiramis and her illegitimate son Tamuz are well documented in the Bible as is God’s wrath concerning them.

Nimrod is certainly documented in the Bible, but the Bible makes no mention of his wife, no mention of any Semiramis and the only mention of Tammuz is in Ezekiel, where there is no reference to Nimrod.

Your claim that "Astarte" is Semiramis is simply not in the Bible.

You say:

they, of course, used different names for Nimrod (Tammuz)

and you also say:

Nimrod and his wife Semiramis and her illegitimate son Tamuz

Which is it? Is Nimrod Tammuz or is Tammuz the illegitimate son of Nimrod's supposed wife?

The facts remain: there is no evidence to link Astarte of the Canaanites to the supposed Eostre of the Northumbrians. There is not even any concrete evidence that any such entity as "Eostre" was known to the Northumbrians.

Moreover, there is no evidence to link the date of the Pascha, which was celebrated by Christians long before the pagan Germans had ever heard of it, with a supposed festival of "Eostre" - especially since there is plenty of hard, documented evidence (like the voluminous records of the Quartodeciman debates) to link the date of the Christian Pascha with the Biblical Pesach.

36 posted on 09/01/2010 9:41:51 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: dangus

I would dare bet that I have less who agree with me then you have who agree wity you also.


37 posted on 09/01/2010 9:46:58 AM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: wideawake

Want to hear something else that’s scary? I don’t pray to dead people either.


38 posted on 09/01/2010 9:50:07 AM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear

> I would dare bet that I have less who agree with me then you have who agree wity you also. <<

I doubt it. But so what? The day may come when the cultists, Wiccans, Satanists and Atheists have completely duped most of the people of the world about the origin of Easter. Will that make them any more correct?


39 posted on 09/01/2010 9:53:25 AM PDT by dangus
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To: supremedoctrine

No fair double-posting ! lol !! Harold Camping...jeez louise...magritte


40 posted on 09/01/2010 9:55:28 AM PDT by magritte ("There are moments, Jeeves, when one asks oneself "Do trousers matter?")
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To: dangus

>> I would dare bet that I have less who agree with me then you have who agree wity you also. <<

>I doubt it. But so what? The day may come when the cultists, Wiccans, Satanists and Atheists have completely duped most of the people of the world about the origin of Easter. Will that make them any more correct?<

Good grief man. Would you please re-read my statement above? It says I have LESS who agree with me. Do you comprehend anything you read?


41 posted on 09/01/2010 9:59:16 AM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear
Want to hear something else that’s scary? I don’t pray to dead people either.

Neither do I.

But that really has no bearing on the discussion.

The fact is, your claims about Semiramis and Tammuz have no Scriptural foundation - yet you claimed that they did.

Moreover, your original claim is completely anachronistic - the Pascha was celebrated by Christians, following the Scriptural Pesach, for centuries before Germanic Christians came up with their own name for it.

42 posted on 09/01/2010 10:22:45 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: Persevero; Tzfat; Salvation
The feast which the vast majority of Christians call by the name of "Pascha" and which English, German and Scandinavian Christians call by various versions of the word "Easter", is the feast of the Resurrection.

The Jewish Pesach (Passover), from which the word "pascha" comes ("pascha" is the word the Jewish translators of the Hebrew Scriptures used to translate the Hebrew word "pesach") is celebrated on the first full moon following the spring equinox.

The Christian Pascha is celebrated on the next day of the first Jewish Sabbath after the first full moon following the spring equinox.

43 posted on 09/01/2010 10:40:00 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: CynicalBear

Well, you’re post DOES make better sense when I read it without standing on my head. :^D


44 posted on 09/01/2010 11:20:45 AM PDT by dangus
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To: dangus

ROFLAO

See! There ya go! Ya just wasn’t doin it right! LOL


45 posted on 09/01/2010 11:28:09 AM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: wideawake; Persevero; Tzfat; Salvation; CynicalBear
The feast which the vast majority of Christians call by the name of "Pascha" and which English, German and Scandinavian Christians call by various versions of the word "Easter", is the feast of the Resurrection.

Without Passover, there is no resurrection.

The Jewish Pesach (Passover), from which the word "pascha" comes ("pascha" is the word the Jewish translators of the Hebrew Scriptures used to translate the Hebrew word "pesach") is celebrated on the first full moon following the spring equinox.

It is not the "Jewish Passover" - read Leviticus 23:5. No where does it say "Jewish Passover." It is an invention of 2nd Century anti-Semites that hated all things "Jewish," to distinguish between "Jewish Passover" and "Christian Easter." That is a distinction the Scriptures never make. The two go together, and should be dated together.

The word "Pascha" is Greek transliteration of the Hebrew "Pesach" פסח - a noun that simply means "pass over." The word "easter" is found nowhere in Scripture. However, the celebration of the Babylonian "Easter" is obliquely referenced in Ezekiel 8:14, where women are "weeping for Tammuz" which is a reference to the 40 day period of "mourning" which precedes the Babylonian feast of Easter. It was bishop Victor of Rome in the 2nd Century that ignited the Quartodecimian Controversy by threatening churches in Asia who still were celebrating the resurrection in conjunction with Passover on 14 Nisan. It was still at issue in 325 and 365 CE at the Nicean and Laodicean councils where celebration of Passover in conjuction with the resurrection was made "heretical" by the "church's" anti-Semitic decree.
46 posted on 09/01/2010 11:57:00 AM PDT by Tzfat
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To: Tzfat

Are we all talking passed each other? Do we agree that the original celebration did in fact begin 2000 years before Jesus?


47 posted on 09/01/2010 12:46:19 PM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear

Yes. Easter is a pagan holy day. Always was, always will be. Its origins are clearly tied to Babylonian mystery religions, which were appropriated by Roman and later Byzantine church leaders. The tying of the resurrection of Jesus to “Easter” (as opposed to Passover) was driven by anti-Semitism - and church documents make that clear.


48 posted on 09/01/2010 2:18:45 PM PDT by Tzfat
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To: Tzfat

Thanks Tz. That’s the way I was reading your post but wasn’t totally sure and didn’t want to misunderstand.


49 posted on 09/01/2010 2:28:21 PM PDT by CynicalBear
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