Because I Love the Bible

Why I Am Catholic ^ | 8/30/2010 | Frank Weathers

[markomalley]

Here is a reason that answers the question posed by this blog daily that I've never written about yet. So here goes: I love the Bible. Well, duh, Frank you may be thinking, of course you do. Well, let me be more specific. I love the entire Bible and every single book therein, including all the books that Martin Luther tossed out during the Protestant Reformation.

I have some mechanical ability, which I have written about in this space once or twice. And I know a thing or two about removing parts from a motor, or adding them, for example. To make a long story short, you don't remove parts from an engine, leave them off, and expect the motor to work. Remove a turbocharger from a diesel engine, for example, and you will have a motor than runs, but it will run like a sick dog with absolutely no torque. What's the point of that?

Of course, the other possibility is that you can add parts to a motor in an effort to make it stronger. "Soup it up," so to speak. Usually this results in some additional power and fun, but at the expense of the longevity of the motor. In other words, you might make more power, but you will probably wind up grenading the motor as well. Oops.

So when I was coming around to the idea of converting, see, I wanted to know what was the scoop on these "extra" books in the Bible. Like a mechanic, I was wondering if the Catholic Church had decided to throw some aftermarket parts onto the motor, if you follow me. You know, like adding a supercharger to a motor that was already strong.

So I grabbed my souvenir Catholic Bible, from my first failed attempt at RCIA class,  and I started looking at these mysterious books. As a result, I discovered some wonderful passages from books that were in the Bible that I had never heard of. Like the one from the first reading from Mass yesterday:

Sir 3:17-18, 20, 28-29

My child, conduct your affairs with humility, and you will be loved more than a giver of gifts. Humble yourself the more, the greater you are, and you will find favor with God. What is too sublime for you, seek not, into things beyond your strength, search not. The mind of a sage appreciates proverbs, and an attentive ear is the joy of the wise. Water quenches a flaming fire, and alms atone for sins.

Um, not very scary, is it? As a matter of fact, don't those verses make all kinds of sense? And there are 50 more chapters of this book to sink your teeth into.  Then I found these verses from the first chapter of the book entitled Wisdom,

Love justice, you who judge the earth; think of the LORD in goodness, and seek him in integrity of heart; because he is found by those who test him not, and he manifests himself to those who do not disbelieve him. For perverse counsels separate a man from God, and his power, put to the proof, rebukes the foolhardy; because into a soul that plots evil wisdom enters not, nor dwells she in a body under debt of sin. For the holy spirit of discipline flees deceit and withdraws from senseless counsels; and when injustice occurs it is rebuked.

Wow, I thought. Seek the Lord,  just like it says in Psalm 105, but with a twist for clarity.

For wisdom is a kindly spirit, yet she acquits not the blasphemer of his guilty lips; because God is the witness of his inmost self and the sure observer of his heart and the listener to his tongue. For the spirit of the LORD fills the world, is all-embracing, and knows what man says. Therefore no one who utters wicked things can go unnoticed, nor will chastising condemnation pass him by.

Of course! God knows all, sees all. GPS has got nothing on God. It says so right there in 1 Samuel 16:7.

For the devices of the wicked man shall be scrutinized, and the sound of his words shall reach the LORD, for the chastisement of his transgressions; because a jealous ear hearkens to everything, and discordant grumblings are no secret. Therefore guard against profitless grumbling, and from calumny withhold your tongues; for a stealthy utterance does not go unpunished, and a lying mouth slays the soul.

Again, there is nothing strange here. There was a lot of "grumbling" going on in Numbers(14:27), for example, remember?

Court not death by your erring way of life, nor draw to yourselves destruction by the works of your hands. Because God did not make death, nor does he rejoice in the destruction of the living. For he fashioned all things that they might have being; and the creatures of the world are wholesome, And there is not a destructive drug among them nor any domain of the nether world on earth, for justice is undying.

I remember clearly thinking to myself after reading this particular passage, "where has this book been all my life?" No wonder I feel immortal, because, gulp (!) I was created to be immortal.  And then I realized there are 18 more chapters in this book too?

And so it goes, as I explored, and continue to marvel at, the wonders of Tobit, Judith, Sirach, Wisdom, Baruch, and 1 & 2 Maccabees. The passage in the New Testament that sealed the deal for me was when these verses in Hebrews chapter 11:32-35,

What more shall I say? I have not time to tell of Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, of David and Samuel and the prophets, who by faith conquered kingdoms, did what was righteous, obtained the promises; they closed the mouths of lions, put out raging fires, escaped the devouring sword; out of weakness they were made powerful, became strong in battle, and turned back foreign invaders. Women received back their dead through resurrection. Some were tortured and would not accept deliverance, in order to obtain a better resurrection.

could only seem to be understood by referring to 2 Maccabees chapter 7:1, 13-14. Take a look,

It also happened that seven brothers with their mother were arrested and tortured with whips and scourges by the king, to force them to eat pork in violation of God's law.

After he had died, they tortured and maltreated the fourth brother in the same way. When he was near death, he said, "It is my choice to die at the hands of men with the God-given hope of being restored to life by him; but for you, there will be no resurrection to life."

And then I learned that all of these books had been in the Bible since the beginning of Christianity. They had been in the Old Testament, but got tossed when Luther decided to toss them. At this point, I had to concede three things. 1) I'm not a biblical scholar; 2) The Catholic Church, the institution that assembled the Bible, is the Authority, and further, it has the Authority to decide what books belong in the Bible and what books don't; 3) These allegedly disputed books were in the Septuagint, which happened to be the authoritative Old Testament Canon in place while Our Lord Jesus Christ walked the earth.

At Mass today, for example, the gospel reading is from Luke and begins like this,

Jesus came to Nazareth, where he had grown up, and went according to his custom into the synagogue on the sabbath day. He stood up to read and was handed a scroll of the prophet Isaiah.(Luke 4:16-17)

What the passage doesn't say, of course, is that He could just as easily, on a different day of the week, or on a different day of the liturgical calendar, have been handed a scroll from Tobit, Judith, Sirach, Wisdom, Baruch, or 1 & 2 Maccabees. These books were in the scrolls too, when God walked upon the earth.

So the mechanic in me was left with only one question to consider. As a Christian, did I want to go along with a stripped version of the motor, the one missing a few parts, with all of the pitfalls associated with that, or go along with the original version of the motor; the one that has all of the original parts, all in the proper place.

It really was not a difficult choice to make for me. Especially after I learned that Luther didn't like the book of James or Revelation either. Lucky us, he left those in because leaving those "parts" out would have been like forgetting the oil sump pump and the oil pan.

[johngrace]

It's a matter of maintain what you have from Christ. Your are at first initially saved. Then you you have to live the life. I did not think nor say you are not a Christian. I think people take it personally when people talk in a general term. Only God truly knows till the end of a Life.

But I have a Friend Who because of this "once saved always saved" He is an ex-Catholic who massages women all the way to bed in their new indy churches. Why because "once saved always saved". This is what he told me.He is married or was. Your not accountable anymore. God will make me perfect. What a joke? Pathetic. Then if you point it out to someone =Well he was never saved! What! He believes because of this Tomfoolery to begin with from the get-go.

I always think of this Crazy extreme. Meaning this can lead to this example. Not that It has any thing to do with you. My real faithful Indy friends believe this in the context of the stewardship of his grace. But when I come across this other type and they truly believe it. Thats Lunacy.

[RoadGumby]

Sir. 35:19; Luke 23:41; John 3:19-21, Rom. 8:13, 2 Tim 4:14, Titus 3:8,14, Rev. 22:12 - these verses also teach us that we all will be judged by God according to our deeds. There is no distinction between the “saved” and the “unsaved.”

1) You have done a fine job of Cherry Picking verses, using them out of context to try to build up your position that Works will get you to Heaven, will get you Salvation. This is not so.

Yes, indeed, we will be judged by what we do, our works. BUT, without the FAITH in Jesus, it matters not what your deeds were, you’ll be “Departing from Him”.

“21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

All have fallen short of the glory of God, there is none righteous, not one.

No one comes to the father but through Jesus, Faith in Him as the risen Savior.

Salvation comes through faith, not works, lest any man boast.

*Sirch3:18-19 These verses speak more to doing Evil works and the rewards for those. In no way do they address, speak to, or suggest that while evil works will bring their reward, that good works will bring Salvation.

*Luke 23:41 Good Cherry Picking. This is the story where Jesus and the two thieves are on the cross, Jesus is being ridiculed by one thief (Save us if you are the Savior!!) But the other thief defends him.

In Luke 23:42, What Happens? Glory to God, the 2nd thief proclaims his faith in Jesus, asks him to remember him. FAITH is what happens there. Notice here, the thief is crucified, doomed to die, no time, nor ability nor opportunity for ‘good works’. But he IS able to show FAITH.

Luke 23:43 Jesus, because of the incredible volume of good works of the 2nd thief, wait, no that is not right, let me try again. Jesus, because of the FAITH demonstrated by the 2nd thief declares that he will join Jesus in Paradise. How is this possible? Where are the works?

*John 3:19-21 These are some sensible verses - Evil deeds have their rewards . And, not surprisingly, ‘good deeds’ are performed ‘wrought in God’. But there is no mention of Salvation being the outcome of good works.

* Romans 8:13 Read this as a group of verses for context (8:10-15) Paul was saying not that good works give Salvation. The quote “But if ye, through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” Allow me to paraphrase: “If you, strengthened by Faith in the Spirit, do NOT do as the body would have you do, ye shall live.” It seems that FAITH is the key.

*2 Timothy 4:14 You have been strong in showing how God will punish those with ‘bad works’, but have not shown at all that good works will save.

*Titus 3:8 “ 8This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.” Did you NOTICE? Those who believe! Those that have FAITH (first) should THEN be careful to maintain their good works. FAITH FIRST.

*Rev22:12 Jesus says: “

[RoadGumby]

I do believe once saved always saved. BUT, having said that IF you are saved, then past sinful behaviors will be repugnant to you. If they are not, it is time for some self-checking. Salvation is NOT a blank check to run amok. No, being saved is the time to walk with Jesus, do as He would. And I doubt massaging women into bed complies with that, so, I would question that salvation.

[johngrace]

I agree. I have friends and brothers in Christ who would also agree. You definitely have to have something to show your are a Christian. Like living as one.

[21twelve]

I recall hearing the preacher gal on TV discussing this. She brings up all the original Greek words, etc. Diagrams the sentences on a big white board. I forget exactly what the words were, but there are three different Greek(?) words for what gets translated as “work”. One was “dynamos” or something similar - where we get the word dynamite from.

Anyway, one Greek word meant “works” in the meaning that the power was from God. (Such as in “judge a man by his works”) Not the MAN’s work, but the visible expression of GOD working through the man.

The other Greek word meant “work” in the sense of the power coming from the MAN. So these “works” (the man's work) doesn't help any with regard to salvation.

The third Greek word for “work” was mentioned once, and was some mundane reference.

Anyway - that sure cleared up a LOT of the questions I had about the whole faith and works thing. Of course - that begs the question. Am I (are we?) always open to what God is wanting us to do, so that we are performing HIS mighty works?

The church I go to now puts a lot of emphasis on “Okay, you're saved. But are you living life Exceedingly Abundantly!? (Not in the “blessed by riches” that some folks go by). But in the sense of are you stepping out on the fringes of your faith? Putting yourself into God's hands and letting him work BIG things through you. Are you letting God use you to make a Deeper Impact in the community. And seeing the work of God around you, you will be blessed.

[Zionist Conspirator]

The amazing thing is that the more people study the Bible -- the entire Bible -- the more they become converts to Catholicism.

Are you saying the more people study the Bible, the more they think it's full of mythology?

[Zionist Conspirator]

I've read them and consider them to be just tall pious tales.

That's how most Catholics regard the Bible anyway.

[Zionist Conspirator]

http://www.scripturecatholic.com/salvation.html

If I am not mistaken, that web site teaches both young earth creationism and geocentrism, which means most Catholic FReepers have no use for it.

Has the guy behind it been excommunicated for "fundamentalism" yet?

[Zionist Conspirator]

Tobit-a man blind because a bird pooped in his eyes restored by fish bile, and a woman whose husbands are all killed by a demon. A fictional morality tale.

That is the attitude of atheists and naturalists to all claims of supernatural phenomena.

You reject the Apocrypha not because its miracles are "silly," but because it isn't in the Protestant bible.

[johngrace]

Mr Z - Not sure on that one. Thanks for your interest. If he does believe in young earth I do not know. I will check it out though.

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

***You reject the Apocrypha not because its miracles are “silly,” but because it isn’t in the Protestant bible.***

Since I have read them I had to get them somewhere. I have a modern print 1611 KJV that has them, a Geneva Bible that has them, and two catholic bibles that have them, and I read them every few years to refresh myself as to why they are irrelivant.

But then I also read “The Lost Books of the Bible”.

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

AND, were the Spartans really one of the lost tribes of Abraham as Maccabees says they were?

[johngrace]

The Preacher Girl as you put it sounds like Gene Scott’s Widow.

[Zionist Conspirator]

Since I have read them I had to get them somewhere. I have a modern print 1611 KJV that has them, a Geneva Bible that has them, and two catholic bibles that have them, and I read them every few years to refresh myself as to why they are irrelivant.

They're irrelevant to you because they're not in the "official" Protestant bible. Supernatural phenomena are supernatural phenomena. It's usually Catholics I argue with about that principal, since they believe the "real presence" is the only thing in their bible that is literally true.

[Zionist Conspirator]

AND, were the Spartans really one of the lost tribes of Abraham as Maccabees says they were?

I have no idea but I doubt it. But it's no sillier to the "scientific" mind than you and I believing the world was created in six days 5770 years ago or that Canaanites are Hamites (academia considers them Semites).

But the Apocrypha isn't in my Bible either. The only thing is I know they're not there because they weren't canonized by the Men of the Great Assembly (they had already closed the canon, which is why the story of Chanukkah didn't make it in). My own personal opinion of the outrageousness of the contents has nothing to do with it.

[21twelve]

Preacher GAL - “girl” sounds demeaning, but I did have to double-check that I didn’t write that! :) And yes - you’re right of course. She sure seems pretty smart, and passionate about it. Thanks for the reminder on the name!