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What Abraham Found...Romans 4
http://billrandles.wordpress.com/what-abraham-found-romans-4/ ^ | September 1,2010 | Bill Randles

Posted on 08/31/2010 10:15:02 AM PDT by pastorbillrandles

What Abraham found…Romans 4

What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. (Romans 4:1-5)

The Justification of man before the Holy God has never come by works of the Law, or by good works of any kind. If man is to be saved at all, it has to come from God, at God’s initiative, and only by faith in the grace of God.

From the beginning this was the case. How was Adam and Eve saved? By faith in the gospel! The gospel was preached from the very beginning, even in the garden.Savation for them consisted of believing in the promised “seed of the woman”, whose pain would reverse the claims of the serpent on them.

And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.(Genesis 3:15)

This is the meaning of the removal of the fig leaves(Works) covering Adam and Eve’s newly discovered nakedness. Blood was shed, of necessity, fig leaves would never do. Adam and Eve were no doubt appalled at their first exposure to physical death, looking with horror at the broken body of the lamb or whatever the beast was that God used to clothe them.

Abraham was an idolator (Joshua 24:2) , who lived in the land of the Chaldees and worshipped the moon God, when God came to him.God revealed himself to Abraham, and called him to play a major role in His Holy purpose to redeem the world.

Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father’s house, unto a land that I will shew thee:And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.(Genesis 12:1-3)

This is the same gospel as the” seed of the woman” gospel, and the same gospel that we christians believe because the “Seed of Abraham” who would bless all families in the earth, is none less than Jesus Christ.Abraham believed it and acted accordingly.

What was it that Go was calling Abraham to believe? That he and his barren wife would be the vessels through whom a Holy Nation of priests would come into the world, culminating in the Messiah, the Saviour of the world from the primal curse.

This former idolator believed…and the faith was imputed to Him for Righteousness sake.

And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.(Genesis 15:6)

What Abraham found, was that God will justify the one who in simple faith will believe in the promise of the gospel. He will ‘put it to their account’ that they are in righteous standing with Him, for salvation was on credit before Jesus came and died for us.

Abraham the idolator of the Babylonian moon-god, had an encounter with the real God, heard the gospel that God would send one to benefit the whole world, (and here is the difficult part to believe) through he and his barren wife!

Yet this Babylonian Believed God. And it was counted to him for Righteousness, God treated this sinner as His friend, and as though He had never sinned. There is no mention if Torah, Law, or striving to fulfill any commandments. Just faith in God’s gracious salvation. What good news!


TOPICS: Current Events; General Discusssion; History; Theology
KEYWORDS: abraham; faith; gospel; righteousness

1 posted on 08/31/2010 10:15:03 AM PDT by pastorbillrandles
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To: pastorbillrandles

Thanks. Very informative.


2 posted on 08/31/2010 10:25:28 AM PDT by deltaromeo11 (I wonder what the Ten Commandments would look like if Moses had run them through Congress-R. Reagan)
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To: pastorbillrandles
Wow PBR! That is an interesting post! Some thoughts if you dont mind.

"... How was Adam and Eve saved? By faith in the gospel!" consisted of believing in the promised “seed of the woman”

The seed of the woman is not an individual, it is all of Eve's decendents. The word "seed" means offspring in the plural. When I go to buy grass "seed" I dont buy one seed. And we dont call it grass "seeds" plural. When something in our garden has gone to seed, it is not one seed.

Furthermore, if make the assumption that the snake is Satan that means that Satan has offspring as well. And that of course is impossible, since Angels dont have children.

Genesis 3:15 is a punishment of G-d to the snake, the woman and the man. The fall in the garden meant that no longer would there be peace among the species. Especially between man and snakes. This is not a messianic passage! The same as the seed of Abraham. It's his offspring, not a single person.

Yet this Babylonian Believed God. And it was counted to him for Righteousness, God treated this sinner as His friend, and as though He had never sinned. There is no mention if Torah, Law, or striving to fulfill any commandments. Just faith in God’s gracious salvation. What good news!

Abraham did keep the Torah, commandments and Laws, even though the Torah wasnt given at the time.

Gen 26:4And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; (Seed meaning decendents, plural)

5Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

So, it wasnt by faith alone that he found favor with G-d. G-d would not have made a covenant with Abraham without Abraham keeping the Law.

3 posted on 09/01/2010 1:34:11 PM PDT by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah is attainable past, present and forever.)
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To: blasater1960

Thanks Blasaster- I always learn a lot from your replies-

* The Seed of the woman- iindividual , corporate , spiritual affinity- all three simultaneously- “The seed of the woman shall bruise your head but you(sing) shall bruise His(sing) heel” The Messiah shall crush the serpant’s head but be hurt in the process

* - the seed of the woman- those who patiently wait for the deliverance of God, longing for the messiah, humbly accepting the curse of the fall but calling on the Lord in the meantime, the congregatiom. the poor and needy. Eve, the mother of all living- longed for the deliverance promised.

* the seed of the serpant- the antichrist, the Nimrod,Nebuchadnessar, the Haman, Goliath all of these are types of the final God defyer, the rebel Daniel spoke of (of whom Antiochus Epiphanes was but a foreshadow) the little horn who boasts great things- soon to be destroyed by the return of the Messiah-

* The seed of the serpant-corporately- all of those who like the serpent himself, in arrogant defiance, resist the Holy One(Blessed is He) , Psalm 10 The Wicked, after the pride of His countenance will not seek God, God is not in his thoughts-

* As Cain persecuted Abel, and Ishmael persecuted Isaac- So the seed of the serpent has ever persecuted the seed of the woman. She aitd patiently for the deliverance from God,long promised-

* The seed of Abraham- *Physically- all of those children of Abraham,Isaac and Jacob- to whom pertains the law and covenants

* The seed of Abraham-spiritual affinity- all of those who like Abraham, believe in the gospel of God by faith and are counted righteous before God

* The seed of Abraham- the Messiah, aka the seed of the woman- the root and offspring of David- Jeshua The Messiah

* Abraham did indeed obey God’s voice, keep God’s ordinances and commandments, statutes and laws-all of this occurred after He was justified, not before- works are the result of justification of God not the cause-
Abraham believed God and it was accounted to Him for Righteousness-

Because He believed God he obeyed God’s voice- leaving the land of His fathers, circumcising His Son and His household, leaving idols etc etc
No mention of Torah of Moses- it hadn’t been revealed yet- but whatever God commanded Abraham after his justification, He did-


4 posted on 09/01/2010 2:14:45 PM PDT by pastorbillrandles
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To: pastorbillrandles
* the seed of the serpant- the antichrist, the Nimrod,Nebuchadnessar, the Haman, Goliath all of these are types of the final God defyer, the rebel Daniel spoke of (of whom Antiochus Epiphanes was but a foreshadow) the little horn who boasts great things- soon to be destroyed by the return of the Messiah-

Thanks for the reply PBR...Problem is that the word for seed in Hebrew, Zerah ( זַרְעָהּ ) can only mean physical children. The word that would apply to Satans spiritual children would be the Hebrew word Banim or Ben. So, it not possible to attribute all the bad dudes as the Serpents children.

Abraham did indeed obey God’s voice, keep God’s ordinances and commandments, statutes and laws-all of this occurred after He was justified, not before- works are the result of justification of God not the cause- Abraham believed God and it was accounted to Him for Righteousness-

Agreed. That isnt the way it sounded in your other post though! Again, had Abraham not done G-ds Law, Statutes and Commandments, he would not have recieved the covenant! There was no mention of faith there but action. And that I would argue that is still the case today.

5 posted on 09/01/2010 3:13:22 PM PDT by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah is attainable past, present and forever.)
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To: blasater1960

If what you are saying is right- about Zerah-How then could there possibly be a physical seed(literal) of the woman? Man(Adam) is the one with the physical Zerah-not Eve


6 posted on 09/01/2010 3:16:45 PM PDT by pastorbillrandles
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To: pastorbillrandles
How then could there possibly be a physical seed(literal) of the woman? Man(Adam) is the one with the physical Zerah-not Eve

Here is the strongs on the word. H2233 Zerah זֶרַע

1) seed, sowing, offspring

a) a sowing

b) seed

c) semen virile

d) offspring, descendants, posterity, children

e) of moral quality

So you can see that it can apply to a woman since the meaning is physical offspring.

A good example of this is Genesis 15:2-4,

2 But Abram said, "O Sovereign LORD, what can you give me since I remain childless and the one who will inherit [c] my estate is Eliezer of Damascus?" 3 And Abram said, "You have given me no seed; so a servant in my household will be my heir." 4 Then the word of the LORD came to him: "This man will not be your heir, but a son coming from your own body will be your heir."

Abraham is saying to G-d, "I have no seed (zerah)..physical children of my own...you must mean my servant (ben) my non-physical family member. But G-d says no...not your Ben but a child from your loins....

Physical offspring is Zerah...non-physical or spiritual, is Ben. Ben can mean physical children but zerah can only mean physical offspring from a body.

7 posted on 09/01/2010 4:45:16 PM PDT by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah is attainable past, present and forever.)
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To: blasater1960

The seed of the woman is the one who would be virgin born, to save us from the curse- the Messiah-


8 posted on 09/01/2010 4:48:55 PM PDT by pastorbillrandles
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To: pastorbillrandles
The seed of the woman is the one who would be virgin born, to save us from the curse- the Messiah-

We are all seed of the woman. So that is not a messianic passage. And as I showed, Satan has no physical children so Gen 3:15 is not a reference to Satan either. Isaiah 7 is also not a virgin birth prophecy but a sign to King Ahaz.

The seventh chapter of the Book of Isaiah begins by describing the military crisis that was confronting King Ahaz of the Kingdom of Judah. In about the year 732 B.C.E. the House of David was facing imminent destruction at the hands of two warring kingdoms: the northern Kingdom of Israel and the Kingdom of Syria. These two armies had laid siege to Jerusalem. The Bible relates that the House of David and King Ahaz were gripped with fear. Chapter seven relates how God sent the prophet Isaiah to reassure King Ahaz that divine protection was at hand -- the Almighty would protect him, their deliverance was assured, and these two hostile armies would fail in their attempt to subjugate Jerusalem. Isaiah 7:1-16

It is clear from this chapter that Isaiah's declaration was a prophecy of the unsuccessful siege of Jerusalem by the two armies of the Kingdoms of Israel and Syria, not a virgin birth more than 700 years later. If we interpret this chapter as referring to Jesus' birth, what possible comfort and assurance would Ahaz, who was surrounded by to overwhelming military enemies, have found in the birth of a child seven centuries later? Both he and his people would have been long dead and buried. Such a sign would make no sense.

Verses 15-16 state that by the time this child reaches the age of maturity ("he knows to reject bad and choose good"), the two warring kings, Pekah and Rezin, will have been removed. We see, in II Kings 15-16, that this prophecy was fulfilled when these two kings were suddenly assassinated. With an understanding of the context of Isaiah 7:14 alone, it is evident that the child born in Isaiah 7:14 is not referring to Jesus or to any future virgin birth. Rather, it is referring to the divine protection that Ahaz and his people would enjoy from their impending destruction at the hands of these two enemies, the northern Kingdom of Israel and Syria.

The Hebrew word ha'almah does not mean "a virgin." It means "the young woman," with no implication of virginity. The septuagint uses the wrong hebrew to greek translation of parthenos. (The Rabbis didnt not translate Isaiah into the septuagint only the Torah). If Isaiah meant a virgin (sexually speaking) he should've used the word "bethulah", which more or less means a person who remained sexually untouched i.e. virgin.

A young woman becoming pregnant cant be a sign anyway. Did they get a doctor to certify her state of virginity? If they didnt there is no way we could rely on that being a sign. Young women get pregnant all the time...that is not a unique sign. G-d always uses unmistakeable signs. Manna from heaven, Balaam's ass, Moses and the rock bringing forth water, The sun standing still, Aaron's rod budding etc. Those are unique and very clear signs. So, what was the sign to King Ahaz? Not the birth of the child but his age. Also, if this were to refer to a virgin birth, that means that Jesus was not the only virgin birth! The young woman is Ahaz's time must also have had a virgin birth. Therefore not a unique event to Jesus at all! So, clearly the virgin part does not fit.

9 posted on 09/02/2010 9:56:59 AM PDT by blasater1960 (Deut 30, Psalm 111...the Torah is attainable past, present and forever.)
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