Grace and Works...Romans 4

http://billrandles.wordpress.com ^ | 09-01-10 | Bill Randles

[pastorbillrandles]

Grace and Works…Romans 4 Posted on September 1, 2010 by billrandles Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.(Romans 4:4-5)

How was Abraham, the father of all who believe in the God of the Bible justified before God? Abraham did not work to earn right standing with God, it was given to him freely , by God himself.

“Abraham believed God and it was accounted to Him for Righteousness.”(Genesis 15:6)

Righteousness from God can only come by faith and as a gift of God offered in His grace.The simplest definition for the word ‘ grace’ is that gift which is given to the unworthy for no other reason than love, it is unmerited favor.God is gracious and abounds with mercy.

Abraham was an idolater, to whom God in grace, revealed Himself, and something of His purposes for humanity.Also in grace, was the fact that that purpose involved Abraham, he didn’t chose God, God chose him!

In response, Abraham “believed God”. Note it doesn’t say that “Abraham believed in God”, but that Abraham took God at His Word. It was this faith in God’s promise, that was “counted for Righteousness”.

Had Abraham had righteousness imputed to him on the basis of his works, law keeping, exemplary service or religious observance, the blessing of righteousness would have been a wage that God owed him. God cannot be indebted, though, he owes nothing to anyone , for ”by the works of the flesh can no flesh be justified in His sight”.

Abraham, the father of our faith, the model and type of all who would “believe unto righteousness”, is counted as ‘the one who works not’, for he did nothing to merit God’s blessing .God justified Abraham solely in grace.

This is the only possible way any can be saved. God has acted in grace,taking the initiative in love to save the ungodly ones. He has made a righteous way to justify the ungodly…(What a miracle!) , so long as they believe only in the gospel of His gracious salvation.

Should we be led to believe that we in any way have helped God, by good works, or any personal righteousness to commend ourselves to him, the Grace of God is diminished, the reward is no longer reckoned of Grace but of debt. No one can possibly put God in debt, He owes nothing to any of us.As it is written;

Surely, shall one say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.(Isaiah 45:24-25)

As Paul had said earlier, that both Law and prophets testify of the gospel, and the above scripture is an example of that. Only in the Lord is righteousness attained, Israel justified, and can man glory.

True Abraham is credited by God with obedience, as a friend has pointed out to me,

And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.(Genesis 26:4-5)

But the promise was made without condition in Genesis 12. Abraham was justified in Genesis 15, the obedience occurred over the course of many years, but as a result of his justification, not as a cause of it.

Ever this is God’s pattern. He reveals himself to sinners, they believe in the gospel, by which he justifies them, and this results in a life of good works as an effect of this justification, not the cause.

Abraham found Grace, saving faith, resurrection, and eternal life, not by works but by faith in the gospel of God, who “justifies the ungodly."

[pastorbillrandles]

Yes I already said that-Evangelicals have to believe what anyone would have to believe to be saved,

you said:So, anyone that does not believe the above before death, will go to hell. (Jews,Moslems,Protetatants that don't believe in Christ's divinity, and everyone else like them)?

That is right- those who do not believe the gospel are and will be damned

[Zuriel]

Welcome to FR, verdugo.

**Easy way to make a living, tell people what they want to hear, “you are saved”.**

That’s a legitimate point that at times can be doctrinally debatable. And, Romans is an epistle that was written to people that were already born again, as were all the epistles (’called to be saints’ Rom. 1:7).

**Nice slogans, that’s about it, BUT not the truth.**

Here’s the truth:

We live in physical bodies, and MUST respond to God’s call with physical effort.

Our own works, which also are physical; giving friendship, material items, living peacably, etc. can be done by anyone, even atheistic people. Those things cannot save the soul.
But when God calls on one’s soul for faithfulness, physical action has to be involved.

“Abraham believed God...” is used as though Abraham just sat there believing in his mind of the great God. Well, Abraham had to move when God called him to serve; and the move was approx. 600 miles without U-haul or Ryder. No trains, planes, or buses.

A good place to see the physical response to God’s call represented in scripture is ‘the heroes of faith chapter’: Hebrews 11, where a list of some of the better known faithful are mentioned:

By faith:

Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice....

Enoch....pleased God. (Genesis says he ‘walked with God’; probably sacrifices and Godly living)

Noah...moved with fear, prepared an ark (a staggering task, to say the least) to the saving of his house.....

Abraham, when he was called...,obeyed; and went out....

Sara herself received strength...delivered a child...(you gotta hand it to her, being 90, and realizing that sex is finally going to result in carrying and delivering a child. Probably kinda scary.)

This is the common thread: they had to act on the Lord’s commands.

When God called, they offered sacrifices, moved, built, prayed, etc. or they would not have been called faithful. Had all the afore mentioned witnesses told God to ask someone else to obey those particular commands, but still said, “Thanks but no thanks, nevertheless Lord, I still believe in you.”, they would have been found disobedient by God, obviously.

God has laid down his ordinances through the ages. Even Jesus was commanding obedience to the Law of Moses (until he died as the perfect sacrifice), telling, for example, the healed leper to go show himself to the priest, and offer for his cleansing the things commanded by Moses.

After Jesus ascended to heaven, his apostles, following his commands, told the lost, enquiring souls to “repent, and be baptized EVERY ONE of you in the NAME of JESUS Christ for the REMISSION of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.’ Acts 2:38

Perhaps yourself and/or others may say obeying Acts 2:38 is not necessary to believing in the Lord. Is the Lord and his word able to be separated and believed separately at one’s own disgression? I don’t think so.

regards,
Z

[verdugo]

re: That is right- those who do not believe the gospel are and will be damned

That then is one doctrine of evangelical christians, right? And A MOST important doctrine indeed. So, we'll go with a discussion on that, who will and who will not saved.

I have in my hand the book "Handbook of Denominations in the United States", 10th edition, by Frank S. Mead. In this book, I don't find any group called evangelical christian, what exactly does ec mean? How does one find their doctrines? Where are they "headquartered(?)"? What mainline Protestant church did they come from, what are its roots?

[pastorbillrandles]

evangelical is not a denomination , it is a designation for all christians who believe that the gospel of Jesus calls for a believing response, unto a New birth, by faith in Jesus. There is a continuity down through the centuries, the early church was an evangelical, pentecostal christianity,and there have always been evangelicals. One would find the doctrines of the evangelicsls by reading the scripture, listening to evangelical teachers, reading evangelical teaching. They come from all mainline Protestant and even Catholic churches, but they have this in cmmon, they profess a NEw Birth through the resurrection of JEsus.

[verdugo]

You are totally winging it.

[P-Marlowe]

verdugo
Since Aug 13, 2010

Don’t feed the trolls.

[P-Marlowe]

Abraham was an idolater

Bill, although this is apparently a legend, I cannot find any Bible verses that support the fact that Abraham was an idolater. A sinner, for sure, but an idolater? I don't think so. Convince me. Give me the biblical support.

Thanks

[pastorbillrandles]

Thank you PMarlow- And Joshua gathered all the tribes of Israel to Shechem, and called for the elders of Israel, and for their heads, and for their judges, and for their officers; and they presented themselves before God. 2And Joshua said unto all the people, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Your fathers dwelt on the other side of the flood in old time, even Terah, the father of Abraham, and the father of Nachor: and they served other gods.

[pastorbillrandles]

Sorry Marlow- that was Joshua 24:1-2

[P-Marlowe]

And Joshua said unto all the people, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Your fathers dwelt on the other side of the flood in old time, even Terah, the father of Abraham, and the father of Nachor: and they served other gods.

When I read that passage it suggests to me that Abraham's father Terah served other gods, but I don't think you can draw the necessary inference that Abraham himself served other Gods. The passages in Genesis that deal specifically with Abraham do not make the inference and this is merely the blanket statement that the fathers of the Children of Israel served other Gods, but unless Abraham is specifically numbered in the passage, then a statement of fact that "Abraham was an idolater" is reading something into the bible which isn't there. He very well may have been at some point in his life an idolater, but clearly we can't state it as a fact. At least not from that passage.

Are there any other passages which make the inference?

I may be wrong but this was the first time I ever saw that assertion and it kinda took me by surprise.

Thanks

Marlowe

[pastorbillrandles]

P-Marlowe- Abraham was not a Christian nor was he a Jew when God met Him, He was a sinner as we are all, he came form UR of the Chaldees. I am not inferring that Abraham was an idolater , God said after naimg Abraham, Terah and Nahor, They served other Godsin a way everyone who is a sinner is an idolatervs 2 "Your Fathers..." verse 3 "I took your Father,Abraham...Thanks

[P-Marlowe]

I am not inferring that Abraham was an idolater

Actually in your article you stated is as a fact.
"Abrahan was an idolater...." (paragraph 3).

From your latest post it would appear that you are now asserting that Abraham MIGHT HAVE BEEN an idolater. I would agree with such a statement, but I don't think I would go so far (at least not based on the scriptures you presented) that Abraham WAS an idolater.

Do you have any other scriptures which would support the inference?

[P-Marlowe]

After reading the passage I believe the inference is that Abraham did not serve other Gods.

In verse 2 God states that those who served other gods included Terah the father of Abraham, but in the next verse it states that Abraham was different. "But I took your father Abraham from beyond the Eurphrates..." (NET) The inference there is that the serving of other Gods by the fathers of Israel ended with Terah and that Abraham was not numbered among them.

I'm pinging some others to chime in on this one.

Thanks.

Marlowe

[Alamo-Girl]

One of the ancient manuscripts in Charlesworth's Pseudepigrapha (not Scripture but ancient) tells a backstory to Genesis 12 - the calling of Abraham.

In a nutshell, the story goes that Abraham's father was idol maker. And one day, one of his carved idols fell into the fire and burned up. Abraham was aghast thinking how could this be a "god" when it is consumed by fire.

His dad wasn't moved. He said that was the way the "god" gave him warmth and allowed him to prepare his meat.

But Abraham, as the story goes, fell to his knees and asked God in prayer, if you really exist please reveal yourself to me.

[P-Marlowe]

I think God had other plans for Abraham and kept him separate from the service of “other gods”. I think that was the point of verse 3 and the contrast between those who came before Abraham and Abraham himself. Abraham was set apart and thus I don’t believe he ever was an “idolator” in the sense that he served other gods.

[pastorbillrandles]

That is what I mean, I wasn’t merely inferring- I am stating as a fact that Abraham was an idolater (based on Joshua 24), which we disagree on, I believe it states it, you don’t. Abraham needed justification as a sinner, just like we do, He is after all “the Father of us all”.

[P-Marlowe]

That is what I mean, I wasn’t merely inferring- I am stating as a fact that Abraham was an idolater (based on Joshua 24),

I really don't believe that you can make such a blanket statement of fact like that based solely on Joshua 24. God makes the specific statement that Terah (Abraham's Father) was, in fact, an idolater but God does not specify that Abraham was, IN FACT, an idolater.

1 Cor 4:6 (ESV) I have applied all these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, brothers, that you may learn by us not to go beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up in favor of one against another.

Without going beyond what is actually written in the scripture, can you state AS A FACT that Abraham WAS an idolater?

Or are you making a factual conclusion based solely upon an inference?

Also can you point to any other scripture in the entire Bible that makes the statement that Abraham was an idolater?

Thanks again.

Marlowe

[Alamo-Girl]

That other ancient manuscript would support your view that Abraham did not worship other gods, i.e. he saw them for what they were, man made objects.

[P-Marlowe]

I think Pastor Bill has made the logical jump that in order for Abraham to be justified by faith that he had to have committed some specific sin and therefore he MUST HAVE BEEN an idolater. But the justification by faith that forgives us of our sins does not require that we have any other sin upon our account than the sin of Adam which we have by virtue of our birth.

Joshua 24 does not allege that Abraham was an idolater. It does state quite categorically that Terah was an idolater but if God wanted us to know that Abraham was an idolater, I think that somewhere in the hundreds of references about Abraham in the Bible it would have stated so. Was he a sinner. Yes. That is a fact. Was he an idolater? We don't know from scripture. I don't think we should smear Abraham with that sin unless it has been made clear in the scripture.

[Alamo-Girl]

Indeed. Thank you for sharing your insights, dear brother in Christ!