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Stephen Hawking Takes on Isaac Newton; Christians Respond
The Christian Post ^ | September 5, 2010 | Eric Young

Posted on 09/06/2010 2:45:06 PM PDT by wmfights

Newton, who left enduring legacies in mathematics and the natural sciences, had centuries ago warned against using the law of gravity - which he discovered - to view the universe as a mere machine, like a great clock.

“Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion. God governs all things and knows all that is or can be done,” the 17th century scientist and non-Trinitarian Anglican stated.

“This most beautiful system of the sun, planets, and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent Being,” he added.

Hawking, however, says “the universe can and will create itself from nothing” because there is a law such as gravity.

"Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist,” he writes in his soon-to-be-released book, The Grand Design. “It is not necessary to invoke God to light the blue touch paper (fuse) and set the universe going."

(Excerpt) Read more at christianpost.com ...


TOPICS: Evangelical Christian; General Discusssion; Religion & Science
KEYWORDS: faith; newton; scepticism; science; scientism; stephenhawking
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1 posted on 09/06/2010 2:45:10 PM PDT by wmfights
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To: Alamo-Girl; betty boop
Meanwhile, in the United States, scholars at the ministry Reasons To Believe have argued against the idea that God is not necessary because laws such as gravity exist and said even with the laws there is the requirement for something that transcends the universe to bring it into being.

Thought you might find this article interesting.

I'm stunned to the extremes that modern science will go to deny God. M theory, String theory, etc. It all goes back to claiming there was no Creator. I bet they wish they never debunked the steady state theory.

2 posted on 09/06/2010 2:50:22 PM PDT by wmfights (If you want change support SenateConservatives.com)
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To: wmfights; wideawake
Hawking, however, says “the universe can and will create itself from nothing” because there is a law such as gravity.

If there was already a "law such as gravity" then the universe could not have "created itself from nothing," because there was no "nothing."

3 posted on 09/06/2010 2:51:29 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Zokhrenu lechayyim Melekh chafetz bachayyim; vekhotvenu beSefer HaChayyim lema`ankha 'Eloqim Chayyim)
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To: wmfights

I wonder when he’ll come running back to the Lord our God.

Probably on his deathbed.


4 posted on 09/06/2010 2:52:12 PM PDT by traderrob6
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To: wmfights

Physical Laws describe the behavior of matter and energy. Why do matter and energy exist?


5 posted on 09/06/2010 2:52:18 PM PDT by pieceofthepuzzle
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To: wmfights

Try to use science to prove God or vice versa is a fool’s errand.

Either you have faith or you do not.


6 posted on 09/06/2010 2:52:56 PM PDT by Mikey_1962 (Obama: The Affirmative Action President)
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To: wmfights

So the creation of the universe was really the “pilot” episode of Seinfeld? A big show about nothing?


7 posted on 09/06/2010 2:55:18 PM PDT by FlingWingFlyer (Algore is a politician and a con artist. He is NOT a scientist.)
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To: traderrob6
He didn't leave. BTW, the dispute here concerns "matter", not whether or not God exists.

Hawking knows, and you now, that given some force stuff happens ~ even matter pops into existence and gets ordered about hither and yon.

Hawking's current problem is that he's in the final stages of having a deadly, debilitating, crippling neurological disorder ~ other people of less capability are writing his books and putting words in his mouth.

8 posted on 09/06/2010 2:55:29 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: wmfights

Stephen Hawking is just another doofus who, upon meeting his maker and knowing his future, will smack himself on the forehead and proclaim “how else could it have been!?!?”


9 posted on 09/06/2010 2:57:17 PM PDT by RingerSIX
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To: Mikey_1962

We all have faith in SOMEthing, Hawkings just happens to have faith in himself to say that there is no Creator. He will be sorry, though, for not putting his faith in Jesus Christ...


10 posted on 09/06/2010 2:58:04 PM PDT by Buddygirl
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To: muawiyah

Or, is he just pi$$ed off at God?


11 posted on 09/06/2010 2:58:14 PM PDT by traderrob6
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To: wmfights

But Stephen—if God doesn’t exist, then how was it that Christ was raised from the dead? (If Creation is not evidence enough for you.)

Extensive forensic and historical evidence point to the truth of the Resurrection.


12 posted on 09/06/2010 2:58:22 PM PDT by reasonisfaith (Rules will never work for radicals (liberals) because they seek chaos. And don't even know it.)
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To: reasonisfaith

Minutia (S!)


13 posted on 09/06/2010 3:02:27 PM PDT by traderrob6
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To: wmfights

Science can explain the mechanism of life, not the meaning of it.


14 posted on 09/06/2010 3:03:22 PM PDT by jmacusa (Two wrongs don't make a right. But they can make it interesting.)
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To: traderrob6

Probably not. I think Hawking knows who’s attacking him. Now he’s at that point in his life where he’s no longer capable of mounting a challenge.


15 posted on 09/06/2010 3:03:28 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: traderrob6
I hope it's before he dies.
16 posted on 09/06/2010 3:05:55 PM PDT by wmfights (If you want change support SenateConservatives.com)
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To: wmfights

Does Hawkings have the balz to make claims about the non creations of Allah???


17 posted on 09/06/2010 3:08:39 PM PDT by Le Chien Rouge
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To: Mikey_1962
Try to use science to prove God or vice versa is a fool’s errand.

Either you have faith or you do not.

Amen to that. The Bible makes it very clear that no one can observe God. Science, being a human construct, by definition cannot and will not be useful to prove God.

18 posted on 09/06/2010 3:09:56 PM PDT by pnh102 (Regarding liberalism, always attribute to malice what you think can be explained by stupidity. - Me)
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To: Zionist Conspirator; wideawake
If there was already a "law such as gravity" then the universe could not have "created itself from nothing," because there was no "nothing."

Great point. Everything just exists no beginning, no end, why didn't I think of that?

19 posted on 09/06/2010 3:10:14 PM PDT by wmfights (If you want change support SenateConservatives.com)
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To: muawiyah
BTW, the dispute here concerns "matter", not whether or not God exists

Wouldn't this refute that?

Hawking, however, says “the universe can and will create itself from nothing” because there is a law such as gravity.

He's not indicating that God will create something from nothing, only the universe.

20 posted on 09/06/2010 3:15:42 PM PDT by wmfights (If you want change support SenateConservatives.com)
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To: wmfights

No one would really know who in the hell this guy was if he wasn’t a vegetable speaking through a box that has the voice from the computer in the movie “War Games”.

A scientist can’t say there ISN’T a god and prove it, no sooner than a religious person can say there IS a God, and prove it, but the religious person BELIEVES there is a God, and that’s all that matters to them.

With the Christian, it’s all about faith. Scientists don’t operate on that level(or they shouldn’t), so they should keep their mouths shut on the matter. In other words.... Religion, politics, and science DON’T MIX.


21 posted on 09/06/2010 3:16:01 PM PDT by KoRn (Department of Homeland Security, Certified - "Right Wing Extremist")
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To: wmfights

Newton spent at least half his time studying the bible. Maybe more than half.

Physics and math came second to him.


22 posted on 09/06/2010 3:20:37 PM PDT by samtheman
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To: Mikey_1962
"Try to use science to prove God or vice versa is a fool’s errand."

You don't need to use "science". There are several logical proofs for God and logical inference is an essential element of the scientific method. The cosmological, teleological, ontological and moral proofs are all based on classical logic. I would note that Hawking's "free lunch" theory violates the logical law of causality and the concept of "nothing" violates the logical laws of identity and non-contradiction.

23 posted on 09/06/2010 3:21:11 PM PDT by circlecity
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To: wmfights
Natural Law is derived from Divine Law by man's reason.

Newton thanked God for allowing him to “discover” the laws of motion. In similar fashion our Founders thanked God for revealing to philosophers the reason for government, which is to “secure these (unalienable/Natural) rights.”

For this reason, what we call physicists were called Natural Philosophers well into the 19th century.

24 posted on 09/06/2010 3:26:41 PM PDT by Jacquerie (LTC Lakin seeks a judicial solution to a political problem.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

I like your tagline :)


25 posted on 09/06/2010 3:39:01 PM PDT by DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis
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To: wmfights

Let’s replace the word “God” with the word “Universe”. And God will no longer be needed to answer fundamental questions. Though “Universe” would be...

Same egg, side view.


26 posted on 09/06/2010 3:42:33 PM PDT by alecqss
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To: wmfights
Hawking, however, says “the universe can and will create itself from nothing”

Obama's (and most progressives) economic theory.

27 posted on 09/06/2010 3:47:22 PM PDT by Raycpa
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To: DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis
I like your tagline :)

Thanks. I try to keep it seasonal.

28 posted on 09/06/2010 3:47:46 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Zokhrenu lechayyim Melekh chafetz bachayyim; vekhotvenu beSefer HaChayyim lema`ankha 'Eloqim Chayyim)
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To: wmfights

Hawking believes that there may be greater life in the universe. If he believes that, why can he not believe there is a God? He’s sort of contradicting himself.


29 posted on 09/06/2010 3:48:23 PM PDT by boycott (CAL)
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To: wmfights

Stephen Hawking’s Universe Implodes. Nice read!

http://xwalk.ca/y3nf.html


30 posted on 09/06/2010 3:48:29 PM PDT by ROTB (Without a Christian revival, we are government slaves, or nuked by China/Russia during armed revolt.)
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To: wmfights

Hawking believes that there may be greater life in the universe. If he believes that, why can he not believe there is a God? He’s sort of contradicting himself.


31 posted on 09/06/2010 3:48:31 PM PDT by boycott (CAL)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

Hawking, however, says “the universe can and will create itself from nothing” because there is a law such as gravity.

If there was already a “law such as gravity” then the universe could not have “created itself from nothing,” because there was no “nothing.”

**************************

You again!!! :)

Don’t try to match wits with a physicist who is an atheist. He will make stuff up faster than a Democrat before election day.


32 posted on 09/06/2010 3:51:09 PM PDT by ROTB (Without a Christian revival, we are government slaves, or nuked by China/Russia during armed revolt.)
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To: wmfights

It just doesn’t make sense to me when scientists say stuff like this. Even in science they say that matter and energy cannot be destroyed nor created, only changed. It seems contradictory to me for them then to also say that the universe could be created from “nothing.”


33 posted on 09/06/2010 3:52:06 PM PDT by WillDMac13
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To: KoRn; wmfights; muawiyah
""Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind" - Albert Einstein
34 posted on 09/06/2010 3:55:05 PM PDT by CutePuppy (If you don't ask the right questions you may not get the right answers)
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To: wmfights

Reasons to Believe is not a great resource to quote. Hugh Ross believes the universe began with the ever increasingly discredited Big Bang theory.


35 posted on 09/06/2010 4:00:41 PM PDT by LiteKeeper ("Psalm 109:8")
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To: ROTB
Thank you for the link. I'll try to read it.
36 posted on 09/06/2010 4:06:45 PM PDT by wmfights (If you want change support SenateConservatives.com)
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To: WillDMac13
It just doesn’t make sense to me when scientists say stuff like this.

Me neither. I think there isn't enough questioning of the comments made by "noted" academics. People forget it is the "outliers" that are the creators of big scientific jumps and most of them are pretty quick to acknowledge the existence of God.

37 posted on 09/06/2010 4:11:32 PM PDT by wmfights (If you want change support SenateConservatives.com)
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To: muawiyah

Sad really, Hawking is an interesting man, perhaps trapped in a decaying body with his last words being:

“There is no God, no Creator..nothing”

Imho a good case of no man knowing another man’s heart but the Lord.


38 posted on 09/06/2010 4:23:01 PM PDT by padre35 (You shall not ignore the laws of God, the Market, the Jungle, and Reciprocity Rm10.10)
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To: wmfights

I would challenge that arrogant physisist to produce evidence of at least one “creation” reaction in which matter and/or energy is produced from nothing. If a creation reaction were possible, the reverse “perfect annilation” reaction would also be possible (based on the fundamental tenet of reversibility in quyantum mechanics). In such a perfect annilation reaction, one or more particles react to eliminate, or annilate all matter and energy. I know of no evidence that this is possible. Even a matter/antimatter reaction (such as an electron/positron annilation reaction) produces two high-energy photons. It is therefore not a perfect annilation reaction.

A good question for Hawking is where all the energy would come from for “spontaneopus creation. He is reaching (I hope unsuccessfyully) for immortality by debating Newton accross 4 centuries, saying effectively that “In the beginning there were the Laws of Physics, and the Laws were God.” I’ll keep my money with Newton.


39 posted on 09/06/2010 4:24:48 PM PDT by pelican001
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To: wmfights

I would challenge that arrogant physisist to produce evidence of at least one “creation” reaction in which matter and/or energy is produced from nothing. If a creation reaction were possible, the reverse “perfect annilation” reaction would also be possible (based on the fundamental tenet of reversibility in quyantum mechanics). In such a perfect annilation reaction, one or more particles react to eliminate, or annilate all matter and energy. I know of no evidence that this is possible. Even a matter/antimatter reaction (such as an electron/positron annilation reaction) produces two high-energy photons. It is therefore not a perfect annilation reaction.

A good question for Hawking is where all the energy would come from for “spontaneous creation. He is reaching (I hope unsuccessfyully) for immortality by debating Newton accross 4 centuries, saying effectively that “In the beginning there were the Laws of Physics, and the Laws were God.” I’ll keep my money with Newton.


40 posted on 09/06/2010 4:24:57 PM PDT by pelican001
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To: All

Undermined himself with the title:

“The Grand Design”

/facepalm


41 posted on 09/06/2010 4:25:45 PM PDT by barnicus (http://jesuschristisgod.webs.com/index.htm)
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To: traderrob6
I pray he does but let's face it, Hawking is a brilliant man who is very close to death. He will most likely find out very shortly that he was dead wrong for eternity.
42 posted on 09/06/2010 4:36:37 PM PDT by scottiemom ("As a Texas public school teacher, I would highly recommend private school")
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To: wmfights

Hawking is a Tool.


43 posted on 09/06/2010 4:39:05 PM PDT by Eddie01 (All we every really knew was it was crazy to be doin' it any other way)
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To: wmfights
Look, you people are getting caught up with semantic differentials. Energy is "something"; matter is "something"; laws (and fields) are "something". You can convert energy to matter, and matter to energy. With particles popping up out of the vacuum all the time, gravity is not just on its own.

The Universe may well "self-assemble" because of the existence of the laws.

44 posted on 09/06/2010 4:46:14 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: LiteKeeper

The “Big Bang” is not discredited ~ maybe measured with more precision, and maybe we don’t quite understand the scale of the totality of the universe, but what we call the “Big Bang” is still there ~ just as it was described in Genesis.


45 posted on 09/06/2010 4:48:40 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: LiteKeeper

You mean “First there was nothing ... then it exploded” isnt true?


46 posted on 09/06/2010 5:21:54 PM PDT by dartuser ("Palin 2012 ... nothing else will do.")
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To: wmfights
One of the reasons why Hawking doesn't get it:

In Western culture the Old Testament contains the idea of providential design, but the traditional Christian viewpoint was also greatly influenced by Aristotle, who believed "in an intelligent natural world that functions according to some deliberate design."

In every culture, the Old Testament contains the idea of providential design. It's called Genesis 1. Amateur. He ought to stick to science.

47 posted on 09/06/2010 5:52:15 PM PDT by naturalized
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To: ROTB; jjotto; papabrody; blasater1960

Meet some friends of mine.


48 posted on 09/06/2010 5:53:23 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Zokhrenu lechayyim Melekh chafetz bachayyim; vekhotvenu beSefer HaChayyim lema`ankha 'Eloqim Chayyim)
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To: traderrob6

He’s angry at God for what he sees as trapping him in that body, imho. Railing and raging that he doesn’t believe out of sheer venom and spite. So much energy expended upon a nonbelief? No, he believes but denies.


49 posted on 09/06/2010 5:58:29 PM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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additional: archival:
50 posted on 09/06/2010 7:24:12 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Democratic Underground... matters are worse, as their latest fund drive has come up short...)
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