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Ordinariate for Anglicans converting to Rome 'ready by the end of the year'
Telegraph ^ | September 24, 2010 | Damian Thompson

Posted on 09/24/2010 2:29:21 PM PDT by NYer

Breaking news from the Catholic Herald’s investigative reporter Anna Arco:

Britain could have an Ordinariate by the end of the year, it emerged today.

Sources say that the Rt Rev Keith Newton, the flying Bishop of Richborough and the Rt Rev Andrew Burnham, the flying Bishop of Ebbsfleet, will take up the special canonical structure, which allows groups of Anglicans to come into full Communion with Rome without losing their Anglican identity, before the end of the calendar year.

Groups of Anglicans are already forming across the country in preparation for joining an Ordinariate, according to the blog of the retired Bishop of Richborough, the Rt Rev Edwin Barnes.

In his October pastoral letter, Bishop Burnham wrote that ordinariate groups would likely be small congregations of thirty or so people.

Traditionally-minded Anglican clergy from the South of England were gathering at a Sacred Synod in Westminster today to discuss the future direction of the Church of England. The meeting was called by the Rt Rev John Frank Ford, the Anglican Bishop of Plymouth. He invited the signatories of a 2008 open letter to the Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams and the Archbishop of York, Dr John Sentamu, which expressed reservations over women bishops.

The meeting was being held only days after Pope Benedict told Catholic bishops in England and Wales and Scotland to see the offer made in the Apostolic Constitution Anglicanorum coetibus as a “prophetic gesture”.

The apostolic constitution was a topic discussed at the Synod, according to Bishop Burnham.

In a statement Bishop Burnham said that Anglicanorum coetibusoffered “Anglo-Catholics the way to full communion with the Catholic Church for which they worked and prayed for at least a century and it is a way in which they will be ‘united and not absorbed’.”


(Excerpt) Read more at blogs.telegraph.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Ecumenism; Mainline Protestant; Ministry/Outreach
KEYWORDS: anglican; freformed; uk
Read the full story here.
1 posted on 09/24/2010 2:29:25 PM PDT by NYer
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To: netmilsmom; thefrankbaum; markomalley; Tax-chick; GregB; saradippity; Berlin_Freeper; Litany; ...

Catholic / Anglican ping!


2 posted on 09/24/2010 2:30:13 PM PDT by NYer ("God dwells in our midst, in the Blessed Sacrament of the altar." St. Maximilian Kolbe)
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To: NYer

Will the clergy who come in to the Catholic church be already married with families?


3 posted on 09/24/2010 2:34:52 PM PDT by Recovering Ex-hippie ( Ok, Joke's over....Bring back Bush !)
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To: Recovering Ex-hippie
Will the clergy who come in to the Catholic church be already married with families?

I believe you will find the answer to your question here.

4 posted on 09/24/2010 2:43:12 PM PDT by NYer ("God dwells in our midst, in the Blessed Sacrament of the altar." St. Maximilian Kolbe)
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To: Recovering Ex-hippie

Will the clergy who come in to the Catholic church be already married with families?

Some of them will be. This is allowed by the canons governing the ordinariate.

Many people don't realize that there are legitimately married, active priests in the Catholic Church. In the Eastern Rites of the Catholic Church, it is quite normal. In the Latin Rite, which is what we're most familiar with in the Western Hemisphere, married priests are allowed as an exception, if they are already married clergy in another Christian denomination when they convert to Catholicism. This would be the case with Anglican priests who convert under the guidelines of the Ordinariate.

5 posted on 09/24/2010 2:43:25 PM PDT by StonyMan451
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To: AbeLincoln

that is sooooo confusing to me...

the church makes a big deal out of celibacy and then it is supposed to be “ok” to have a married priest? It sounds very hypocritical...to be so rigid on the one hand, and then just say”Oh well” on the other hand.

I personally believe priests/pastors should NOT be married because their committment is to their ministry.


6 posted on 09/24/2010 3:05:44 PM PDT by Recovering Ex-hippie ( Ok, Joke's over....Bring back Bush !)
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To: Recovering Ex-hippie
This is a dispensation out of mercy.

Many of these "high" Anglicans believed they were actually Catholic (I used to).

There have always been married priests, just not in the Roman rite. And married priests have very specific limits -- he may not remarry if his wife dies, and he may not become a bishop.

It doesn't change the general discipline (not absolute moral teaching) of celibacy. Nor the practical ramifications that St. Paul talked about.

7 posted on 09/24/2010 3:24:31 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: Recovering Ex-hippie

I agree with the celibacy rule, too. However, it is a rule, not a requirement of the priesthood, per se. St. Peter was married, after all, and he was the first Pope. The celibacy rule did not become the norm until several hundred years after Christ founded the Church.

Looking at things from the point of view of a married protestant minister who wants to convert to Catholicism, it certainly doesn’t make sense to make him live celibacy while a married man. Neither does it make sense to refuse him entry into the Catholic Church. He could, of course, convert to Catholicism as a lay man. However, it would be impractical for most protestant clergy, especially those with families, to find gainful employment as a lay man once they convert to Catholicism. Further, many of these men are just the sort of thinkers the Catholic Church would want to be providing pastoral care. After all, it takes an enormous amount of personal integrity, intellectual honesty, and courage for a man to make the move from being a protestant minister to joining the Catholic Church. Since celibacy is a rule, not a theological requirement of the priesthood, there is good reason to remove this barrier to the conversion of these men, and the Church has seen fit to make exceptions in these cases.

With regard to the Eastern Rites... They have never had the tradition of celibacy. Many of the Eastern Rites were formerly Orthodox churches that returned to union with Rome some time after the Great Schism. Again, since celibacy is not a requirement of the priesthood, the Church saw fit to allow them to continue to ordain married men.

Note, however, that neither the Catholic Church, nor the Orthodox Churches allow priests to marry after ordination. That is to say, a married man may become a priest, but a priest may not become a married man.


8 posted on 09/24/2010 3:30:10 PM PDT by StonyMan451
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To: AnAmericanMother

I still can’t see the rigidity of Catholics with celibacy yet there are ‘exceptions”.


9 posted on 09/24/2010 3:31:47 PM PDT by Recovering Ex-hippie ( Ok, Joke's over....Bring back Bush !)
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To: Recovering Ex-hippie
There's that scary word, "rigid" . . . . That adjective is dreadfully overused by liberal Catholics/CINOs, who apply it to any aspect of Catholicism that they don't like . . . .

Seriously, celibacy is hardly rigid -- it's a discipline, not a doctrine.

But most priests will tell you that it's a grace and a gift, and bears great fruit. The priesthood is a sacrifice in many ways, and celibacy is but one aspect of that.

What's rigid about that?

10 posted on 09/24/2010 3:35:23 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: AnAmericanMother
And married priests have very specific limits -- he may not remarry if his wife dies, and he may not become a bishop

Just a clarification... if the priest's wife dies, he may become a bishop, at least in the Russian Orthodox Church. When I was growing up, a neighbor of mine was the legitimate daughter of a Russian Orthodox Archbishop.

11 posted on 09/24/2010 3:36:08 PM PDT by StonyMan451
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To: AbeLincoln
Thanks! Did not know that!

By the way, I've heard it said that although St. Peter was at one time married, there is nothing to show that his wife was still alive at the time he became a disciple. The argument is based on the incident when Christ healed St. Peter's mother-in-law, she rose up from her bed and waited on them. If his wife had still been alive, she would have been the one to serve them.

12 posted on 09/24/2010 3:38:38 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: AnAmericanMother

First, lets just chill with the CINO lib Catholic comments...!

In my first post I said i was FOR celibacy of priests and pastors and made my point VERY clear.

However, yes the church’s position is “rigid’ in the sense it insists priests are celibate, and thus enhance the rigidity ( no choice about celbacy, regardless of its virtues) when they called married priests ( regardless of where they came from) “exceptions”. You have “exceptions” to a strict , IE rigid, doctrine.

It IS a doctrine...and a discipline....You can not be a priest AND get married, or be married and decide to be a priest...( uh, excuse me, except for the “exceptions”).


13 posted on 09/24/2010 3:51:57 PM PDT by Recovering Ex-hippie ( Ok, Joke's over....Bring back Bush !)
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To: Recovering Ex-hippie

You wrote:

“the church makes a big deal out of celibacy and then it is supposed to be “ok” to have a married priest?”

I attended a Catholic parish where there was a married priest. No big deal.


14 posted on 09/24/2010 4:31:40 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Part of the Vast Catholic Conspiracy (hat tip to Kells))
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To: vladimir998

Its the hypocrisy..THAT is the big deal.

THE CHURCH says it is NOT ok for priests to marry or go into the preisthood married ( unless of course there are “exceptions”)...they say this nationally, internationally...as part of church doctrine ...then if there is an “exception”, nothing is said, “Oh well, nothing to see here, move along now...”

It is also very much like the hypocrisy of the Ted Kennedy funeral for a pro-choice politician, the “annullment “ for the other Kennedy though his wife fought the church NOT to have it.


15 posted on 09/24/2010 4:37:43 PM PDT by Recovering Ex-hippie ( Ok, Joke's over....Bring back Bush !)
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To: Recovering Ex-hippie

You wrote:

“However, yes the church’s position is “rigid’ in the sense it insists priests are celibate, and thus enhance the rigidity ( no choice about celbacy, regardless of its virtues)...”

Everyone has a choice about celibacy. Period. Everyone.

“...when they called married priests ( regardless of where they came from) “exceptions”. You have “exceptions” to a strict , IE rigid, doctrine.”

It ain’t doctrine. It wasn’t doctrine. It can’t be doctrine.

“It IS a doctrine...and a discipline....”

Nope. It is JUST a discipline. Period.

“You can not be a priest AND get married,”

But wait! There’s an exception - just to make your head spin. A priest who leaves the active priesthood with permission from the Vatican can marry. He is always considered a priest in the character of his soul, however.

“or be married and decide to be a priest...( uh, excuse me, except for the “exceptions”).”

Yes, exceptions: the Eastern Churches, the Anglican, Lutheran and some Methodist converts.

There will be more exceptions in the future too I bet.


16 posted on 09/24/2010 4:38:35 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Part of the Vast Catholic Conspiracy (hat tip to Kells))
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To: Recovering Ex-hippie

That wife won her case too. She appealed all the way to Rome and they overturned the annulment.


17 posted on 09/24/2010 4:44:00 PM PDT by kalee (The offences we give, we write in the dust; Those we take, we engrave in marble. J Huett 1658)
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To: Recovering Ex-hippie

You wrote:

“Its the hypocrisy..THAT is the big deal.”

There is no hypocrisy here. None. Hypocrisy means to say one thing and do another. That is not what is happening. The Church has always has some married priests. Thus, there can be no hypocrisy on this issue now by having some married priests.

“THE CHURCH says it is NOT ok for priests to marry or go into the preisthood married ( unless of course there are “exceptions”)”

False. The Church says it is against practice and tradition for already ordained men to take up a second vocation (i.e. to marry). The church says it wants most of its seminarians to take a vow of celibacy before ordination. Not all are required to do so. What effects that is the Church from which the seminarian comes. If he was a Protestant minister (and already married) or an Eastern Christian (and already married) no vow of celibacy is expected.

“...they say this nationally, internationally...as part of church doctrine “

No. Never. Not once. This has never been and can never be, doctrine.

“...then if there is an “exception”, nothing is said, “Oh well, nothing to see here, move along now...””

Since there have always been married priests in the Church it is not a surprise to us that the Church may choose to allow other exceptions. You ignore those basic facts.

“It is also very much like the hypocrisy of the Ted Kennedy funeral for a pro-choice politician, the “annullment “ for the other Kennedy though his wife fought the church NOT to have it.”

You again have your facts wrong. You seem to have no idea of what your speaking. Ted Kennedy was given a funeral. He was not given a funeral “for a pro-choice politician” - whatever that is. Also, Rauch-Kennedy did fight the annulment and the Church sided with her.


18 posted on 09/24/2010 4:46:23 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Part of the Vast Catholic Conspiracy (hat tip to Kells))
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To: vladimir998

If it is JUST a discipline...why the big fuss? You are missing the point I am making about the church being hypocritical saying “There will be no MARRIED PRIESTS IN THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH” ( except for the ones that come from another “church”.

Sure a man has a choice about “celibacy” but if chooses NOT to be celibate, he CAN”T become a RC Priest ( unless again from another church-—we have already established THAT exception!)

and yes, it is a big deal....or there would not be such a resistance to married men becomming ACTIVE priests...that is what we are talking about...not priests who “leave” and have priesthood in their soul.

You prove my point with all the “exceptions”...no need for endless exceptions if it is JUST a discipline, NOT a doctrine. Of course its a doctrine, or the church would say, “Well, we really would rather you be celibate, but since its not a doctrine and you just got married, well, we will ordain you anyhow!”

It just seems ok with a lot of Catholics...”we’ll have more exceptions in the future too...”, oh well, whatever.
Why be Catholic then if we are more and more like other churches? No wonder so many priests don’t believe in a lot of the actual doctrines...after all, things seem ok to be a little loose here and there.


19 posted on 09/24/2010 4:55:08 PM PDT by Recovering Ex-hippie ( Ok, Joke's over....Bring back Bush !)
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To: Recovering Ex-hippie
I make and made no comment regarding you.

I simply observed that "rigid" is the first thing that liberals say about anything they don't like. Like "racist", it is often used to stifle discussion. Also like "racist", however, it doesn't work as well as it used to, because it's been overused.

I might pick a different word, just to avoid the connotations that that word has picked up.

However, you do have your facts wrong, as others have pointed out to you.

20 posted on 09/24/2010 4:58:54 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: vladimir998

thanks for the clarifications.

I really get conflicted growing up and feeling my RC church is very different and very special. Its hard to get so ‘ecumenical”..if a Lutheran seminarian wants to be a Catholic Priest, ok...huh? News to me.

You are no doubt very correct in your technical points...it is my emotional and spiritual feelings that make it difficult for me to incorporate all this stuff. I guess its not hypocrisy, its just never how it was presented to me and to the world in general.


21 posted on 09/24/2010 5:01:19 PM PDT by Recovering Ex-hippie ( Ok, Joke's over....Bring back Bush !)
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To: AnAmericanMother

thanks for your “sensitive” comments about “you have your facts wrong, as others have pointed out.”

I have acknowledged where I do not know the technical aspects of the Church rules and regs these days...for example to Vladimir, who patiently responded to my posts with information.

As a lifelong Catholic, remind me to think twice about coming to this forum if I have questions or issues with what I see the church is doing....

God forbid that someone might want to help me understand where I might be incorrect on the facts, let alone offer some empathy as I deal with my religion.

You can keep Your brand of Christianity.


22 posted on 09/24/2010 5:17:39 PM PDT by Recovering Ex-hippie ( Ok, Joke's over....Bring back Bush !)
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To: Recovering Ex-hippie

You wrote:

“If it is JUST a discipline...why the big fuss?”

What fuss? Aren’t you the only one making a fuss here?

“You are missing the point I am making about the church being hypocritical saying “There will be no MARRIED PRIESTS IN THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH”...”

The Church never said any such thing.

“( except for the ones that come from another “church”.”

Or are in a sui juris Church of their own. Do you know what that means.

“Sure a man has a choice about “celibacy” but if chooses NOT to be celibate, he CAN”T become a RC Priest ( unless again from another church-—we have already established THAT exception!)”

So he still has a choice right? If he has a choice, he has a choice. Period.

“and yes, it is a big deal....or there would not be such a resistance to married men becomming ACTIVE priests...”

What resistance? Where? Where are the protests? Where are the letter writing campaigns? Where are the sit-ins? Where are priests quitting in anger? Oh, that’s right. There’s none of that. Do you even think about what you post before you hit the post button?

“that is what we are talking about...not priests who “leave” and have priesthood in their soul.”

I’m right in any case. And you’re not.

“You prove my point with all the “exceptions”...no need for endless exceptions if it is JUST a discipline, NOT a doctrine.”

No. You have proved nothing except that you apparently have no idea of what you’re talking about.

“Of course its a doctrine, or the church would say, “Well, we really would rather you be celibate, but since its not a doctrine and you just got married, well, we will ordain you anyhow!””

I’m sorry, but are you writing all of this as some sort of satire or parody of something? All you’re doing is making yourself look grossly ill-informed. It’s not a doctrine. Show me where in the catechism it says its a doctrine. When you fail you will have proved to everyone that it is NOT A DOCTRINE.

“It just seems ok with a lot of Catholics...”we’ll have more exceptions in the future too...”, oh well, whatever.”

And? What of it? What does it matter to you?

“Why be Catholic then if we are more and more like other churches?”

We are not more and more like them. We are always still the only true Church. Sects simply don’t mean anything.

“No wonder so many priests don’t believe in a lot of the actual doctrines...after all, things seem ok to be a little loose here and there.”

No, they’re not. Priests sometimes fail for the same reason you have.


23 posted on 09/24/2010 5:53:20 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Part of the Vast Catholic Conspiracy (hat tip to Kells))
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To: Recovering Ex-hippie
I apologize if I was insensitive, but you may be being just a wee bit too sensitive. I intended no offense at all.

I haven't said a thing about you personally, or your beliefs. Just some facts about which you had some misunderstandings (is that better than "wrong"?), and a caution against using a buzzword which has become a well-known weapon for dissenters within the Church.

If you're a "lifelong Catholic", you ought to have received some catechesis about the meaning and philosophy of celibacy somewhere along the line. It's not at all your fault if you have not, of course, but the fault of your instructors.

And that seems to have been a widespread problem in the wake of the 60s upheavals in the U.S. Far too many parishes simply quit instructing people in the faith, opting instead for feel-good Kumbaya stuff, cotton candy instead of solid nourishing food.

Perhaps I am a bit sensitive to and outraged by such goings-on, but the Episcopal Church in which I was raised has gone a lot further down that road . . . to its very great detriment. And the very favorite line of attack by the Episcopal loons when you suggest that perhaps there is some actual Truth is . . . "You're so rigid!" If I had a dollar for every time I heard that, I'd have exceeded the loose plate offering in any given Episcopal parish on any given Sunday.

24 posted on 09/24/2010 6:19:47 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: vladimir998

LOL’ing here - may be the first time you’ve been accused of being more sensitive and patient than I . . . . I must be slipping . . . . or you must be . . . . or something! :-D


25 posted on 09/24/2010 6:22:58 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: AnAmericanMother

Do you feel the chill? Hell has frozen over! :)


26 posted on 09/24/2010 6:39:33 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Part of the Vast Catholic Conspiracy (hat tip to Kells))
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To: NYer

I saw that article earlier. Quite interesting.


27 posted on 09/24/2010 6:47:14 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Recovering Ex-hippie

Many dioceses (including my own) have married priests who converted from other denominations. In fact, one of the priest died here in Oregon at a recent retreat, shaking up all the priests, and leaving a wife and children behind.


28 posted on 09/24/2010 6:51:23 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Recovering Ex-hippie
There will be no MARRIED PRIESTS IN THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH

There have been married priests in the Catholic Church for centuries, just not in the Latin Rite and not in the US. The Byzantines and other Eastern Catholics have had a married clergy for a long time.

Of course its a doctrine

It's doctrine -- and was affirmed as such by Trent -- that the celibate state is superior to the married state as far as the service of God is concerned. Of course that's straight out of Scripture (1 Cor 7).

The Latin Church's practice of not ordaining married men is not doctrine. It's a prudential decision that is based on that doctrinal point, but, like any other prudential decision, exceptions can be made.

29 posted on 09/24/2010 9:53:39 PM PDT by Campion
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To: NYer
I just hope we get some of the great titles when the ordinariates start to form... I love "flying bishops". I was watching a military memorial service on the BBC and one of the participants was captioned as "The Reverend Wing Commander". I looked at my wife and said "oh we have GOT to get us some of those!"
30 posted on 09/24/2010 10:14:46 PM PDT by Legatus (Keep calm and carry on)
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To: NYer
Ordinariate for Anglicans converting to Rome 'ready by the end of the year'

Wow, cool, so they'll beat the Israeli-Palestinian peace deadline called for by Omaba!

31 posted on 09/25/2010 7:48:41 AM PDT by the invisib1e hand
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To: AnAmericanMother

You missed the whole point...

You”apologize’ and then go right on with your critcisms..
“You may be a wee bit sensitive”,

Yes, your comments are personal and moreover , they are patronizing....Patronizing is a real put down.

But congratulate yourself on YOUR superiority...that way you will be right and not have to deal with any Catholics that may be trying to understand their church, but just aren’t as smart or knowledgeable as you. Just keep telling them they are ignorant, etc and keep telling them how they are “just tooo sensitive” and how you REALLY didn’t mean to be offensive.

Better yet, just tell them to leave the Church if they don’t like it or have questions or concerns...just tell them our church sure doesn’t need your overly sensitive, ignorant kind!


32 posted on 09/25/2010 8:13:01 AM PDT by Recovering Ex-hippie ( Ok, Joke's over....Bring back Bush !)
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To: Salvation

thanks for your comment...guess I had not run into that so much.


33 posted on 09/25/2010 8:18:05 AM PDT by Recovering Ex-hippie ( Ok, Joke's over....Bring back Bush !)
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To: Salvation

thanks for your comment...guess I had not run into that so much.


34 posted on 09/25/2010 8:18:05 AM PDT by Recovering Ex-hippie ( Ok, Joke's over....Bring back Bush !)
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To: Campion

Thanks for your post...You are helping me to understand what was not very clear to me before..and in a patient way..I appreciate that.

One’s faith and religion are not just always “rational” areas....there is a lot that goes with the “facts”.


35 posted on 09/25/2010 8:23:56 AM PDT by Recovering Ex-hippie ( Ok, Joke's over....Bring back Bush !)
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To: AnAmericanMother

Guess its just a laugh riot for you...why take seriously when someone is trying to communicate a difficult topic...Nah, just make fun of their attempt instead..


36 posted on 09/25/2010 8:26:21 AM PDT by Recovering Ex-hippie ( Ok, Joke's over....Bring back Bush !)
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To: NYer
Continue to Pray for Pope Benedict [Ecumenical]
37 posted on 09/26/2010 6:38:15 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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