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Bryan Fischer: Firefighters did the Christian thing in letting house burn
The Examiner ^ | 10/7/10 | Joe Speranzella SFO

Posted on 10/07/2010 7:04:54 AM PDT by Catholic Examiner

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To: johngrace

I also read on another thread that the community had voted down a property tax to pay for fire service.

If you want all of the services of a city, it might be wise to move there.


151 posted on 10/07/2010 10:56:03 AM PDT by listenhillary (A very simple fix to our dilemma - We need to reward the makers instead of the takers)
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To: goat granny
If the fire department had no permission to enter the property because the home owner paid no fee, could they have been sued for trespassing?

I really do not know. I think it would be a 'real stretch'.

152 posted on 10/07/2010 10:56:26 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (lame and ill-informed post)
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To: UCANSEE2
"Or, it could be that this man just never found the time, or spare money, to pay the bill, and kept procrastinating in the belief that his house wasn’t likely to catch fire soon, and now he’s mad at the firemen because reality happened. "

From what I saw on tv yesterday, the wife (or mother) of the homeowner stated they had "forgotten" to pay the fee.

153 posted on 10/07/2010 10:56:59 AM PDT by RabidBartender
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To: al_c
In that case, I would just mark it up to a sad ending to a stupid decision.

I would agree.

154 posted on 10/07/2010 11:00:38 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (lame and ill-informed post)
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To: RabidBartender

They don’t place much value in their property if they forgot.

My dad didn’t ever forget to buy a fire tag. It would have been irresponsible to put his family at risk. Government has made being irresponsible not such a big deal. Get pregnant before finishing school? We’ll take care of you.

Rewarding irresponsible behavior? We are rewarded with more irresponsible behavior.


155 posted on 10/07/2010 11:01:46 AM PDT by listenhillary (A very simple fix to our dilemma - We need to reward the makers instead of the takers)
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To: UCANSEE2

Until missing pieces are provided they are indecent. Seems the media people there thought so and were threatened by the firechief.


156 posted on 10/07/2010 11:05:14 AM PDT by blarney
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To: VRWCmember

Once they were there with their firetruck watching it burn it’s all about decency. No way to try to color it. No different than a cop watching a woman get raped just because it’s not in the city he’s a cop in.

Nobody knows about these insurance policies it was just a guess by the guy who wrote the article he was clear about that. Folks sure like to take his noted assumption and make it real tho. LoL


157 posted on 10/07/2010 11:07:12 AM PDT by blarney
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To: blarney; VRWCmember
Once they were there with their firetruck watching it burn it’s all about decency. No way to try to color it.

To say that responding to VRWCmember posts begs the question, did you really read the posts?

No different than a cop watching a woman get raped just because it’s not in the city he’s a cop in.

If a debate can jump the shark, this post was it.

158 posted on 10/07/2010 11:14:25 AM PDT by fml
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To: RabidBartender
From what I saw on tv yesterday, the wife (or mother) of the homeowner stated they had "forgotten" to pay the fee.

Yes. She also said she doesn't blame the firefighters.

The fire was started by Gene Cranick's GRANDSON, who apparently set some barrels on fire that were NEAR the house.

Apparenly, Mr. Cranick watched the barrels burn until the fire reached the house, and did nothing but bitch to the Firefighters. Even though the whole family had plenty of time to evacuate the house ( the fire didn't start INSIDE the house), they somehow couldn't get the pets out of a DOUBLE WIDE TRAILER.

159 posted on 10/07/2010 11:16:09 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (lame and ill-informed post)
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To: blarney
No way to try to color it. No different than a cop watching a woman get raped just because it’s not in the city he’s a cop in.

It is entirely different from your cop scenario. Cops actually have a duty to intervene and prevent a crime even if not on duty or in their jurisdiction. Not only do firefighters not have that same duty, they are usually prohibited from doing so by their liability policies.

160 posted on 10/07/2010 11:17:01 AM PDT by VRWCmember (Jesus called us to be Salt and Light, not Vinegar and Water.)
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To: fml

Sorry you couldnn’t think of an intelligent reply so had to move onto condescending. Hopefully it will work out better for you in the future.


161 posted on 10/07/2010 11:17:01 AM PDT by blarney
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To: Hodar
Again, have you read the parable about the Ant and the Grasshopper? You are demanding that the Grasshopper be rewarded for his foolishness.

This isn't so much directed at you but at a country that has lost its mind.

I don't know what anyone else is demanding but I thought this was the United States of America. The America I grew up in provided for certain basic functions of government and police and fire protection were always seen as fundamental. I am stunned that in the 21st century we apparently have local governments that are incapable of organizing basic services, and fire protection is a basic service that is for the good of the entire community.

This is why we can't have nice things anymore, this is why the rest of the world (even as it collapses... or so we are told) is laughing at us. We Americans get the worst return for our taxes in the civilized world. It isn't so much about this one guy who may or may not be a crank, it's about the society the rest of us want to live in and I don't want my country, state, county or city to check my neighbors' records before basic services are provided.

Whose crazy idea was it that fire protection, FIRE PROTECTION! should be an optional subscription service and that local governments should or could be organized in that manner? Europeans pay insane amounts of taxes and get ridiculous amounts of government service, a lot of it complete junk. We also pay stupidly high taxes and in return we still get nickel and dimed over the most basic government services.

This is the USA for crying out loud, we should be able to outdo the rest of the world in our sleep in terms of quality and efficiency. But no, we've "advanced" to the point where the motto of our nation in public and private relations is "Screw You". Where did Reagan's Shining City on Hill go? How can we be a beacon to the world when what the rest of the world is going to get out of this story is that America can't figure out how to provide fundamental government services without checking to see if people are paid up first?

162 posted on 10/07/2010 11:22:47 AM PDT by Legatus (Keep calm and carry on)
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To: UCANSEE2
"DOUBLE WIDE TRAILER"

I KNEW IT!!! I was only guessing about that because I saw the metal rail foundations on tv yesterday.

163 posted on 10/07/2010 11:23:55 AM PDT by RabidBartender
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To: VRWCmember

No it’s not entirely different. No they don’t have a duty to intervene even if not in their jurisdiction. Cops can’t pull over people in other states that are speeding by them? They can’t pull their gun and interfere with a robbery in an official form they do it as a citizen.

They are prohibited? LOLOLOLOL! Keep reaching you are wrong. Oh by the way yes firefighters do take an oath so your weak attempt at saying cops have a duty and firefighters don’t just depends on how important they think their word is. Apparently in this case not very important.


164 posted on 10/07/2010 11:32:08 AM PDT by blarney
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To: blarney
I wasn't being condenscending. You are stuck on your "feelings" of decency regardless of personal resp., rule of law, contractual obligaitons and legal liabilities of the other men involved Then try to compare a buring home to bystanders watching a rape.

Where is your decency?

165 posted on 10/07/2010 11:33:09 AM PDT by fml
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To: Legatus

I don’t disagree with your post I just find it sad how low the human species has fallen or is it just our basic conscience and decency has fallen so far.

The owner was wrong but the guys who sat there and watched were just lowest of the low. No logical defense can even be attempted which is obvious by these threads.


166 posted on 10/07/2010 11:34:37 AM PDT by blarney
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To: fml

No I am stuck on how decent people would act. Has nothing to do with feelings, personal responsibility, fule of law or constractual oblications(which you don’t seem to know anyway) legal liabilities(which you also don’t know about).

Yes it’s the same thing you can try to say it’s not but so far you haven’t come up with a good reason why it’s not. You have just tried to invent things to say why. Reality doesn’t work like this.

I wonder where your decency is but then I just know what kind of people you defend and see it’s moot.


167 posted on 10/07/2010 11:37:22 AM PDT by blarney
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To: RabidBartender

Someone in the family should have, and likely could have, prevented the fire from even reaching the Trailer.

That issue concerns me more than that he hadn’t paid the bill.

His grandson started the fire, in some barrels, that probably had waste oil or some other junk that was flammable. Could have been trash barrels. They probably don’t have trash pick up in that rural area either.


168 posted on 10/07/2010 11:40:02 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (lame and ill-informed post)
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To: RabidBartender

More info:

Mr. Cranick says that if fireman had just sprayed a little water on the house, the pets wouldn’t have died.

Had Mr. Cranick sprayed a little water on the burning trash barrels, his house would not have caught fire.

Even rural double wide trailers have an outside water faucet. I guess he might not have had a hose. But I am sure they had a bucket, somewhere. Maybe in the house, with the pets.


169 posted on 10/07/2010 11:46:44 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (lame and ill-informed post)
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To: blarney; fml
You have just tried to invent things to say why. Reality doesn’t work like this.

That's how science works.

170 posted on 10/07/2010 11:50:12 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (lame and ill-informed post)
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To: UCANSEE2

Science works by inventing things to say? No actually science is discovery and verification.


171 posted on 10/07/2010 11:52:56 AM PDT by blarney
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To: Legatus

The community recently voted down a property tax increase to pay for fire service. Should they be forced to pass a tax increase?


172 posted on 10/07/2010 11:55:43 AM PDT by listenhillary (A very simple fix to our dilemma - We need to reward the makers instead of the takers)
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To: blarney
Science works by inventing things to say

Science works by inventing things to say WHY. They call them THEORIES.

173 posted on 10/07/2010 11:57:03 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (lame and ill-informed post)
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To: Venturer

I’ve been wondering what would happen if the town itself had a fire that was too big for their dept. to handle.

Would it be reasonable for them to want/expect help from some other township? Or would the guys in the next town kick back, have a brew and some nachos, and watch it burn on the local news channel?

My initial feelings would be to say “Hell no, let the place burn!!” after the way they handled the house fire.
But then I come back to my senses and realize hey, it’s an out-of-control type situation, we all have to do what it takes to put it out.

My 2 cents, anyways...


174 posted on 10/07/2010 12:06:08 PM PDT by djf (It is ISLAM or "We, the People..." Take your pick. THERE IS NO MIDDLE GROUND!!!)
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To: listenhillary
The community recently voted down a property tax increase to pay for fire service. Should they be forced to pass a tax increase?

Apparently some people aren't up to self government. Cops, courts, roads and firemen; a government that can't/won't provide basic services needs to be removed. Are there really entire counties in the United States that do not have fire protection on purpose?

175 posted on 10/07/2010 12:12:19 PM PDT by Legatus (Keep calm and carry on)
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To: stuartcr

A spot waiver would likely be deemed “under duress”, making it legally moot.


176 posted on 10/07/2010 12:14:52 PM PDT by MortMan (To Obama "Kill them all and let [God] sort them out" is an abortion slogan.)
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To: blarney
No it’s not entirely different. No they don’t have a duty to intervene even if not in their jurisdiction. Cops can’t pull over people in other states that are speeding by them?

So now breaking the speed limit is the same as rape? LOLOL. Who's reaching now?

177 posted on 10/07/2010 12:16:01 PM PDT by VRWCmember (Jesus called us to be Salt and Light, not Vinegar and Water.)
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To: UCANSEE2

theories are not reality. Look it up.


178 posted on 10/07/2010 12:18:50 PM PDT by blarney
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To: MortMan

ok


179 posted on 10/07/2010 12:19:45 PM PDT by stuartcr (When politicians politicize issues, aren't they just doing their job?)
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To: VRWCmember

LOL, really is this how desperate you are? You tried to say cops have to do something so I gave examples and showed they don’t and this is your response? Desperation really is not a good way to try to argue if you don’t know then just don’t post.


180 posted on 10/07/2010 12:19:56 PM PDT by blarney
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To: Legatus
Whose crazy idea was it that fire protection, FIRE PROTECTION! should be an optional subscription service and that local governments should or could be organized in that manner?

There are rural, unincorporated areas that simply do not have a population and government structure that supports a fire department. In such situations, sometimes a volunteer firefighting force is put together by residents. In some cases, the rural residents in outlying areas near a town might appeal to that town for assistance. Since these residents don't live in that town or pay city taxes, the town might enter into an agreement with the county to extend services to those residents if the county pays for the services or if the individual residents pay for the services. This is really not that unusual.

181 posted on 10/07/2010 12:24:56 PM PDT by VRWCmember (Jesus called us to be Salt and Light, not Vinegar and Water.)
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To: blarney

You are wrong.

When you go to the grocery store, you pay for your purchases, and the store’s personnel bag it for you, and maybe put it into a cart for you.

Do you demand that the person one checkout aisle over be given the same service but not have to pay?

Theft is theft. But, in this case, you feel emotionally charged about it. But it is still theft.


182 posted on 10/07/2010 12:26:05 PM PDT by MortMan (To Obama "Kill them all and let [God] sort them out" is an abortion slogan.)
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To: Legatus

Apparently there are counties that have the government that they want.

Lets not make it a crime.


183 posted on 10/07/2010 12:27:03 PM PDT by listenhillary (A very simple fix to our dilemma - We need to reward the makers instead of the takers)
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To: blarney

Everyone deserves decency $75 is not a barometer for who should be treated decent and who should not.

_________________________________________________

I agree with you. Unfortunately, Mr. Cranick disagrees. And since this is all about him, he gets to make that call about what is decent and what isn’t.

You would have given him the $75? So would I - if he asked. Even if he spent $75 a month on beer and cigaretts.

But would you/could you FORCE him to take the $75? It is - after all - his call, his choice.

Please don’t take away Mr. Cranick’s decency - his dignity by blaming the volunteer fire department.


184 posted on 10/07/2010 12:35:16 PM PDT by Responsibility2nd (Yes, as a matter of fact, what you do in your bedroom IS my business.)
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To: MortMan

Did I demand anything from anyone? The answer would be NO.

What is your checkout aisle analogy? You are saying someone is checking out at a grocery store but not paying? Are they checking themselves out? Are they squeezing the charmin?

Seriously you guys try to hard to defend what total and complete lowlifes these firemen are. Until there is something to show they had a good reason to sit there and watch someones house burn while they had knowledge and equipment on the spot to help you will get nowhere. It really just puts your own judgement into question.

This is about decency and what kind of person would sit there and watch someone lose all their stuff for no good reason except to teach him a lesson. You go ahead and keep trying to defend it with those really bad analogy’s it’s fun.


185 posted on 10/07/2010 12:39:01 PM PDT by blarney
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To: UCANSEE2

You do realize that when something is invented that isn’t a theory it’s an invention. You really need to read up on this stuff before just tossing out anything to try to be right.

Inventions can be based off of theory but they are not theories.


186 posted on 10/07/2010 12:42:24 PM PDT by blarney
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To: Responsibility2nd

I am not taking anything from mr Cranick.

I am just saying those firemen are lowlifes.


187 posted on 10/07/2010 12:43:55 PM PDT by blarney
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To: blarney

I am just saying those firemen are lowlifes.

______________________

This is a rural area. But it’s safe to assume there is another fire department somewhere in the vicinity. Maybe 50 miles away, but still...

They didn’t respond either. Are they lowlifes too?


188 posted on 10/07/2010 12:51:03 PM PDT by Responsibility2nd (Yes, as a matter of fact, what you do in your bedroom IS my business.)
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To: UCANSEE2; blarney
Right. Like glogbal warming

You have just tried to invent things to say why. Reality doesn’t work like this.

I invented things?? Man I'm good, I thought I simply stated the obvious

189 posted on 10/07/2010 12:52:59 PM PDT by fml
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To: Responsibility2nd

These firemen were right there with their equipment. Sorry if that is so hard to understand.


190 posted on 10/07/2010 12:56:55 PM PDT by blarney
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To: fml

You haven’t stated anything even close to obvious, you have stretched really hard trying to be right and not really even knowing what you are arguing about.

It’s funny.


191 posted on 10/07/2010 12:57:54 PM PDT by blarney
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To: blarney

These firemen were right there with their equipment.

________________________________

Yes they were. And they were protecting the property they were paid to protect (the neighbor).

But they’re still lowlifes. According to you.

What do YOU do for a living? Whatever it is, I’m sure you’d be glad to do it for free. Or glad to do it at the risk of losing your insurance. Or do it at the risk of losing your job.

And I bet you don’t even have a dangerous job. Like these firefighters do. Yet you call them lowlifes.

Let me guess. You sit around all day waiting for that free pie, don’t ya?


192 posted on 10/07/2010 1:03:22 PM PDT by Responsibility2nd (Yes, as a matter of fact, what you do in your bedroom IS my business.)
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To: Responsibility2nd

Yes they are lowolifes.

This has nothing to do with doing my job for free. How sadly do you need to stretch with this stuff? I keep talking about decency and you guys keep trying to go a different direction.

I love it when you guys want to talk about receiving stuff for free and me waiting for stuff. I help people who are in need, you seem to think to hell with them unless they give you money. So while you are trying to insult me you are showing what kind of person you are, do you happen to be one of these firefighters? It would sure make sense with your attitude considering what they are.


193 posted on 10/07/2010 1:07:54 PM PDT by blarney
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To: blarney

You are arguing that these firemen, and the fire department they volunteer in, should have been required to bail out this homeowner when the decision he made (not paying the $75 fee) turned out to be detrimental.

Do you also support the TARP bailouts?

The homeowner made a decision to not participate. It is HIS problem, not the fire department’s.


194 posted on 10/07/2010 1:22:09 PM PDT by MortMan (To Obama "Kill them all and let [God] sort them out" is an abortion slogan.)
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To: blarney

So while you are trying to insult me you are showing what kind of person you are, do you happen to be one of these firefighters? It would sure make sense with your attitude considering what they are.

________________________________________

I apologize. I had no call to say you are waiting on free pie. That was an insult - not called for. And no - I’m no firefighter. I’m a benker.

(OK to make snide remarks here - feel free!)

But back to your comments about decency. That gets back to my earlier comments about Mr Cranick. HE was the one who set the rules in motion. HE was the one in charge of the rules of decency. HE sets the stage.

Now I guess the decent thing to do would have been for the fire department to IGNORE Cranick’s standards of decency and implement their own, right? The decent thing to do would have been to put out that fire, right?

Great. Then what?

1. Then others would see that payng $75 is senselsss and they would not pay. This would only add to the burden of responsible people. You do see the similarites to this situation and our welfare system, right?

2. But worse then the financial burdens is the legal and contractual burdens. It’s already been established that putting out that fire might cost these firefighters their jobes. But that’s OK, right. Because they did the DECENT thing. And if the liability insurance company cancels the insurance and this little group of volunteers have to shut down and NO ONE NO WHERE has fire protection, then that’s OK too, right?

3. I could go on and on. Just like the original author of this article showed how these firefighters did the Chrisitan thing to do, I’m also stating they did the decent thing to do.


195 posted on 10/07/2010 1:25:36 PM PDT by Responsibility2nd (Yes, as a matter of fact, what you do in your bedroom IS my business.)
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To: ontap

I’m wondering how many people are not going to pay the $75 next year, torch their homes and end up with a new home. Of course family photos and such will be in a fireproof safe beforehand.


196 posted on 10/07/2010 1:35:10 PM PDT by B4Ranch (Conflict is inevitable; Combat is an option. Train for the fight.)
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To: Responsibility2nd
I had no call to say you are waiting on free pie.

Wait a minute... IS there free pie?

I was not informed that there would be pie.

In the future if there is pie someone should ping me.

Or cake. Pie or cake, either way. I'll bring ice cream.

197 posted on 10/07/2010 1:36:22 PM PDT by Legatus (Keep calm and carry on)
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To: Responsibility2nd

How is helping someone in need when you are sitting there losing everythign in their life insulting his standard of decency.

do you really think everyone is going to say “well great I’m not paying next year”. LOL, you are basically saying everyone is crappy. Where do you get this idea from? Has this happened before? It doesn’t appear to have happened when they didn’t have to pay the time before that is talked about in the articles. So how come will it suddenly happen? Are you just making an assumption of what everyone else will now do?

It has not been established that putting out the fire would have gotten these guys to lose their jobs. People are just saying that trying to win an argument there is nothing to show that would have happened. So again they are not decent people and no amount of hoping for some kind of legal win will help.

The original author of this article did nothing but show that he can read a bible and pretty much pervert anything to meet his argument. I wonder if he tries to clear Catholic Priests who have abused children too, I’m sure he could bastardize enough scripture if the tried hard enough.

No snide remarks from me, I also work in Banking now, I work in the biggest bank there is. Just to clear up some other things I also worked a dangerous job for our government where I was sent to another country to defend our people. My closest friend, my brother and my father are all Firemen tho my father is since retired. Most of the arguments people are tossing out here are a joke and they are just dreaming up anything they can to say they are right.

Firemen assist outside of their towns all the time, my brother has done it before. My best friend has permanent disfigurement for doing that very thing. It’s sad how far people will go in order to try to be right about topics they know nothing about.


198 posted on 10/07/2010 1:36:32 PM PDT by blarney
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To: blarney
All benefits are subject to the terms and conditions of the policy. Policies underwritten by XXXXXXXXXX detail exclusions, limitations, reduction of benefits and terms under which the policies may be continued in force or discontinued.

That is a pretty standard disclaimer for all policies. Only assuming these men, the township(s) and the contract btwn the two are simply gentlemens agreements you calling others on lacking decency is rubbish

199 posted on 10/07/2010 2:35:11 PM PDT by fml
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To: fml

So post their insurance policy.

If not you guys are just blowing smoke trying to guess a way to be right.


200 posted on 10/07/2010 2:51:06 PM PDT by blarney
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