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Bryan Fischer: Firefighters did the Christian thing in letting house burn
The Examiner ^ | 10/7/10 | Joe Speranzella SFO

Posted on 10/07/2010 7:04:54 AM PDT by Catholic Examiner

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To: stuartcr
They could at least have hosed it down, while they were standing around watching. How much could that have cost?

If it caused them to lose their liability coverage for violating the terms of their agreement with the county it would have cost them plenty.

51 posted on 10/07/2010 8:00:51 AM PDT by VRWCmember (Jesus called us to be Salt and Light, not Vinegar and Water.)
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To: Hodar

Hinky post, I my older brother, father are firemen. I asked thim about this forfeiture of medical and life insurance and they said that is not true. There is nothing like that. It has nothing to do with their location they are protected anywhere they go as long as they follow their training correctly.

Too bad decency didn’t come into play in all this and the firemen just did the right thing instead of the heartless thing.


52 posted on 10/07/2010 8:02:56 AM PDT by blarney
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To: Venturer
One must wonder how the argument would go had it been a poor black person’s home they allowed to burn down, but that isn’t reallt germane either.

Or if it had been a cute blonde chick's home.

53 posted on 10/07/2010 8:03:55 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (lame and ill-informed post)
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To: Catholic Examiner

The fire department had to do this. If people don’t pay their fees, the volunteer fire department won’t exist. Everybody burns.


54 posted on 10/07/2010 8:05:58 AM PDT by Soothesayer (“None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license...")
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To: Hodar

I’ve heard the wife on the news more than once. They replay the clip where she says something close to, “If they waived the fee last year, why couldn’t they waive it this year?”

She wants a service contract without having to pay for it.

I would think that most people would see logically see that it was her responsibility to obtain the contract for the service.

This does not have trigger the “bleeding heart” response.

After all this is equal to saying that “We should get healthcare for free, because it is owed to us.” If we reject Obamacare, we should reject the pleas of this woman.


55 posted on 10/07/2010 8:07:04 AM PDT by Pan_Yans Wife (Utopia is being foisted on Americans for their own good.-- J. Robert Smith)
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To: stuartcr

Are you kidding? Just try to enforce that sort of a waiver in court.


56 posted on 10/07/2010 8:07:52 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: Hodar

Here in minnesota a police chief burned down his girlfriends bussiness so that he could save it....ahhh he started a fire to impress her by saving her...but it got out of control...and so half a city block burned up...anyway...I had a point....

Elected officials...A few go power mad...and will burn down their own house,city,country?...on a whim?

When I was in detroit every weekend for 2 yrs..I saw many city blocks with only 1 or 2 houses left standing...on weekends the residents..like to start big fires..and then |||PARTY\\\ around them harrass the firemen ect..Who is paying the fee for that?

EVERY one who can afford it should drive through south and west detroit ...then cross the bridge into Winsor...

Bring a Liberal with you.


57 posted on 10/07/2010 8:08:32 AM PDT by Therapsid (Communism has killed 50-60 Million people in only 50 yrs.)
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To: ontap

You are right about the tax payers part.


58 posted on 10/07/2010 8:09:31 AM PDT by blarney
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To: SeaHawkFan
Wonder if the house was paid off and if it was, there would be no requirement for a homeowners policy.

If 'one' had a second domicile ( say a new girlfriend's place), and the house was free and clear, and obviously 'insured', then one would stand to make a lot of money if the place burned so bad it was condemned.

So, not having FD services would be of benefit in ensuring the house burned to the ground.

Then 'one' could take his new girlfriend on a Cruise ship to the Bahamas, and not even have to pay for 'pet watching' services anymore.

59 posted on 10/07/2010 8:13:05 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (lame and ill-informed post)
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To: blarney; Hodar
Too bad decency didn’t come into play in all this and the firemen just did the right thing instead of the heartless thing.

Well, the Bible did come into play, on this. According to the parables of the TEN VIRGINS, and the TALENTS, the firemen were right to refuse to put out the fire.

If this house was 'insured' , and had no mortgage, the owner stands to collect a big chunk of money. I find it awfully convenient that he didn't pay the fire services fee, and that the house burning completely ensures he won't have to spend any money rebuilding it. According to another post, he lost some pets, but maybe he wanted to lose them. Neighbors said he had 20 minutes during which he could have entered and rescued them. If true, something stinks.

It may turn out that this 'homeowner' doesn't deserve any decency.

It would be interesting to follow the outcome of this.

60 posted on 10/07/2010 8:23:52 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (lame and ill-informed post)
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To: LADY J

Thats ashame and sad. I wish the homeowner cared more about them


61 posted on 10/07/2010 8:26:19 AM PDT by fml
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To: Pessimist

That’s easy for you to say, because I doubt you live in this community.

You more than likely live somewhere that is protected by a Fire department paid by your tax dollars or where voluntees answer every call no matter where it is.

I apologise if you live in this neighborhood or are under a system such as this. Otherwise you are already covered by Socialism .


62 posted on 10/07/2010 8:31:10 AM PDT by Venturer
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To: Venturer
I dont care to argue this point, nor will my mind ever be changed. No matter how cheap or rotten a person the man was, it doesnt excuse this action.

What if you found out the mortgage had been paid off on the house, and that the owner was going to pocket a big chunk of change?

AND... that the only way he would get the money 'free and clear' would be if the house burned to the ground. What if he set the fire, to collect the insurance money, knowing it would burn to the ground, because he hadn't paid for FD services?

63 posted on 10/07/2010 8:32:56 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (lame and ill-informed post)
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To: 1rudeboy

With all the witnesses involved, in this case I doubt it would be an issue. Either way, it’s better than watching a house burn down.


64 posted on 10/07/2010 8:36:01 AM PDT by stuartcr (When politicians politicize issues, aren't they just doing their job?)
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To: ontap
Since according to the story he was fully covered by insurance he only lost the personal items that can’t be replaced so should require little help!

Making sure the FD wouldn't put out the fire so that he could collect the full amount on the house , because he refused to pay the bill, is just a coincidence.

65 posted on 10/07/2010 8:37:02 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (lame and ill-informed post)
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To: VRWCmember

Lots of IFs in this situation.


66 posted on 10/07/2010 8:37:19 AM PDT by stuartcr (When politicians politicize issues, aren't they just doing their job?)
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To: stuartcr

Only becuase they obeyed the terms of the contracts.


67 posted on 10/07/2010 8:39:38 AM PDT by fml
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To: al_c; SumProVita

i agree with both of you

this news has sure brought out the torches and pitchforks gang here

i never agree with them..on this stuff

guess I’m a puss


68 posted on 10/07/2010 8:39:53 AM PDT by wardaddy (the redress over anything minority is a cancer in our country...stage 4)
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To: 1rudeboy

This is a tough one. I can see both sides, but had I been on the fire department and been there with equipment, I probably would have tried to put it out. I would have also expected to be dismissed from the fire dept for doing it.
I wouldn’t expect others to do the same, and if there’s some legal reason to ‘not fight’ the fire, that would have added an additional decision layer. For example, breach of contract and then we couldn’t fight fires for those who’ve paid - I may have not acted on the non-payers fire.
Completely tough call to make without all the facts.


69 posted on 10/07/2010 8:40:26 AM PDT by No_More_Harkin
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To: stuartcr
They were there, they could have hosed the place.

The area I used to live in did not have city trash service. There were several services available and you had to pay for one of them to pick up your trash.

Now, that trash truck comes by the house, every week. But... if I don't pay, they don't pick up the trash.

70 posted on 10/07/2010 8:41:07 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (lame and ill-informed post)
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To: LADY J
From what I’ve heard - 3 dogs and a cat died in that house fire!!!

And another house caught fire.

It's called being penny smart and pound foolish.

71 posted on 10/07/2010 8:42:14 AM PDT by dfwgator (Texas Rangers - AL West Champions)
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To: LADY J

That’s real nice, letting the animals die also.....


72 posted on 10/07/2010 8:42:18 AM PDT by geege
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To: UCANSEE2

The bible? Really? LoL

20 minutes? The neighbors also asked for them to put out the fire.

Everyone deserves decency $75 is not a barometer for who should be treated decent and who should not.


73 posted on 10/07/2010 8:42:57 AM PDT by blarney
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To: UCANSEE2

If you are implying he made the conscientious decision not to cover his house so he could torch it that’s a possibility I would not deny...of course proving it would be next to impossible!


74 posted on 10/07/2010 8:44:44 AM PDT by ontap
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To: blarney

Good for you..

and you and your family are all firemen but free republic’s resident arbiters of housefire extinguishment etiquette know better than you

thanks for what you do

i’m with you

some of these freepers sound like anal litigants

(even some I like usually otherwise..and who will now come to get me)

but I’m off to Texas this afternoon so flay away


75 posted on 10/07/2010 8:46:13 AM PDT by wardaddy (the redress over anything minority is a cancer in our country...stage 4)
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To: Catholic Examiner

Participation in a Volunteer Fire Department plan is like participation in a health insurance policy. If the insurer accepts anyone regardless of pre-existing conditions(already cancerous or already on fire) then there is no incentive for anyone to buy the insurance until he is sick or until his house is burning. The insurer(a voluntary FD subscription is insurance) could only lose money and could not long remain extant. Every transaction would be at a loss.


76 posted on 10/07/2010 8:48:05 AM PDT by arthurus (Read Hazlitt's "Economics In One Lesson.")
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To: geege
That’s real nice, letting the animals die also.....

The neighbors said that he had about 20 minutes before the fire got bad enough that one couldn't enter. If true, he could have rescued his pets. Arguing with firemen because you didn't pay for their services while your own pets die is what's 'real nice'.

77 posted on 10/07/2010 8:50:59 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (lame and ill-informed post)
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To: Venturer

The FD certainly should not have responded in the first place, knowing the fellow had declined the subscription.


78 posted on 10/07/2010 8:52:42 AM PDT by arthurus (Read Hazlitt's "Economics In One Lesson.")
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To: Venturer

Yes, I am covered by socialsim w/ regards to fire protection. Through not choice of my own.

And not dobut it costs me much much more than $75 week. Have to pay the union firemen and their bennies and retirement of course.

However, were I not, I can assure you I’d pay the $75 for the “insurance”.


79 posted on 10/07/2010 8:53:21 AM PDT by Pessimist
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To: blarney
The bible? Really? LoL

Really. You can read the two parables at this link.

Passage: Matthew 25 (ESV Bible Online)

80 posted on 10/07/2010 8:56:33 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (lame and ill-informed post)
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To: UCANSEE2
Would you give up your job, to put out that fire ?

Yep!

81 posted on 10/07/2010 8:57:05 AM PDT by al_c (http://www.blowoutcongress.com)
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To: al_c

It is obvious to me that you are not aware of how hazardous fire fighting is on a daily basis. Never forget that responding to an ORDINARY house fire can get a firefighter killed. Propane tanks, toxic chemicals, unknown and perhaps non compliant construction, flamable furniture and a whole bunch of unknowns creates a difficult and hazardous environment.

Please see this report on firefighter injuries: http://www.nfpa.org/assets/files/PDF/OS.patterns.pdf


82 posted on 10/07/2010 8:58:13 AM PDT by taxcontrol
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To: stuartcr

I’m not sure that’s feasible.

First, as others have pointed otu, there’s the insurance aspect for the firemen tehmselves.

Plus, while the guy may agree to any terms offered at the time, would you be able to collect? Does he even have the money? Would he pay you, or claim he was under duress?


83 posted on 10/07/2010 8:58:32 AM PDT by Pessimist
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To: blarney
Everyone deserves decency $75 is not a barometer for who should be treated decent and who should not.

Makes you wonder why he didn't just pay the $75. That's less than $7 a month.

In addition, he went to the local FD and punched the Chief in the nose. How decent is that, considering he REFUSED TO PAY FOR THEIR SERVICE?

84 posted on 10/07/2010 9:00:18 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (lame and ill-informed post)
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To: Venturer

The voters have an option to go to a tax supported fire system or not. An entrepreneur or a group of affected citizens can install a volunteer FD in the absence of a tax supported system but the citizenry who want the protection have to pay the price directly instead of indirectly and more expensively through their taxes. He who refuses to pay for the service is making a bet. If he loses the bet, well, he has lost the bet. No one at the table is going to or should push another stack of chips over to his place. The assumption is the man is an adult and as such can make his own decisions, including bad ones. If the society must compensate and correct everyone’s bad decisions then there will be no longer any incentive to make good ones and soon no more resources to compensate for bad ones.


85 posted on 10/07/2010 9:00:18 AM PDT by arthurus (Read Hazlitt's "Economics In One Lesson.")
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To: ontap
...of course proving it would be next to impossible!

OH... I don't know about that. Seems an arson investigation could be done.

86 posted on 10/07/2010 9:02:05 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (lame and ill-informed post)
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To: NEMDF
I am curious as to whether they had homeowners’ insurance. It would seem that you would not be able to get it unless you had fire protection, such as, could prove you paid your $75 each year.

Yes, he had insurance. Which lends credibility to his claim that he forgot to pay the $75. They need to look into previous years to see if he made payments during those times. If not, then he's lying and the insurance company would probably cancel his policy over it. If he did, then he's telling the truth.

87 posted on 10/07/2010 9:04:15 AM PDT by al_c (http://www.blowoutcongress.com)
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To: taxcontrol

I never claimed to be an expert ... nor did I sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night.


88 posted on 10/07/2010 9:05:42 AM PDT by al_c (http://www.blowoutcongress.com)
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To: Pessimist

If you don’t like the Fire Department you must really hate the Police Department and their Union, the Sanitation Department, and their’s ,and for that matter any of the Government sponsored entities that serve you.

A certain amount of Socialism is necessary I suppose since none of us live in the Wild West and are completely self-sufficient.

I am certainly no proponent of Socialism and would keep Government to a minimum, but there are certain service’s we cannot live without.

I said this was a bad system and it is.Something better should be worked out. No one should lose their home because they are too cheap or too poor to pay the $75 bucks.

By the way I would have paid it too.In fact I do donate more than that to my local Volunteers, but they still respond to many homes who do not donate.


89 posted on 10/07/2010 9:06:15 AM PDT by Venturer
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To: UCANSEE2

Whatever the reason there was no reason for a bunch of capable people with the tools to help to sit there and watch his stuff burn up. People can talk about the bible all they want but there is no way a caring god nor a decent person would have sat there in that situation and watched it burn.


90 posted on 10/07/2010 9:06:22 AM PDT by blarney
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To: arthurus
The FD certainly should not have responded in the first place, knowing the fellow had declined the subscription.

IIRC, the FD responded to reports of a fire on that block. It appears they didn't have, or know, the exact address until they got there. Then, they found that address was not on the payor list. Plus, the other homeowners were payed up, and the FD was there to provide services to them. One other house caught fire, and IIRC, they didn't let it burn to the ground.

91 posted on 10/07/2010 9:06:59 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (lame and ill-informed post)
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To: Hodar

I stopped on the road south of Jacksonville FL 20 some years ago because the woods beside the road were on fire. Several houses were in immediate danger. A number of motorists, myself included, and neighbors were out with shovels and blankets fighting the fire. The local volunteer FD arrived and discovered that they had a wrong address and the correct addresses were not subscribed. Those of us working on the fire cussed the FD until the situation got explained then we simply pitied the homeowners who had made bad bets. But we stayed with the fire until it was out.


92 posted on 10/07/2010 9:07:28 AM PDT by arthurus (Read Hazlitt's "Economics In One Lesson.")
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To: UCANSEE2

No Not really.

Decent people don’t sit back and watch others people have horrible things happen and not help especially when they have to tools.


93 posted on 10/07/2010 9:07:32 AM PDT by blarney
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To: al_c

Would you have paid the $75 fee so he could have coverage?


94 posted on 10/07/2010 9:09:45 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (lame and ill-informed post)
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To: UCANSEE2
Would you have paid the $75 fee so he could have coverage?

If he was my neighbor and in need ... sure.

95 posted on 10/07/2010 9:15:28 AM PDT by al_c (http://www.blowoutcongress.com)
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To: Catholic Examiner

Do you have to pay your taxes for the police to respond to a call? What a load of baloney! The state should have a law everybody is covered! If it was your house what then. What if the fire was so bad the whole town went up. A bunch of nonsense. I can’t even believe the reply comments on this post. So if your wife is raped by a gang and you did not pay your taxes you get no help. Listen to yourselves! WOW!


96 posted on 10/07/2010 9:18:49 AM PDT by johngrace (God so loved the world so he gave his only son! Praise Jesus and Hail Mary!)
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To: al_c
Which lends credibility to his claim that he forgot to pay the $75. They need to look into previous years to see if he made payments during those times.

According to HIS WIFE, they didn't pay LAST YEAR EITHER. The FD 'waived' the fee last year and provided the coverage anyway. She wanted to know wny they couldn't just DO IT THIS YEAR TOO.

The truth is coming out about this case. And it may not be pretty.

97 posted on 10/07/2010 9:18:49 AM PDT by UCANSEE2 (lame and ill-informed post)
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To: All

Do you have to pay your taxes for the police to respond to a call? What a load of baloney! The state should have a law everybody is covered! If it was your house what then. What if the fire was so bad the whole town went up. A bunch of nonsense. I can’t even believe the reply comments on this post. So if your wife is raped by a gang and you did not pay your taxes you get no help. Listen to yourselves! WOW!


98 posted on 10/07/2010 9:19:22 AM PDT by johngrace (God so loved the world so he gave his only son! Praise Jesus and Hail Mary!)
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To: UCANSEE2

That’s the way it was when I lived in FL.


99 posted on 10/07/2010 9:20:14 AM PDT by stuartcr (When politicians politicize issues, aren't they just doing their job?)
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To: Pessimist

For $75, I bet a collection would have come up with that in no time, or chalk it up as a lost pair of boots.


100 posted on 10/07/2010 9:23:56 AM PDT by stuartcr (When politicians politicize issues, aren't they just doing their job?)
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