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An Open Letter to Reformed Creationists
MBC ^ | 10/14/10 | GZ I.F.

Posted on 10/14/2010 7:07:18 PM PDT by The Ignorant Fisherman

Dear Friends in Christ,

We thank the Lord for your faith in our magnificent Creator-God, the One who created all things out of nothing (Heb. 11:3), and who created this world and all that is in it in six literal 24-hour days (Exodus 20:11), to the praise of His glory. Many of you have supported sound creation research organizations such as the Institute for Creation Research (ICR) and Answers in Genesis (AIG), and some of you are leaders in these organizations.

We recognize that many of our Reformed brethren are staunch creationists, and for this we thank God and we stand with you. We join with you in your uncompromising affirmation that the Lord Jesus Christ, the Creator of all things (John 1:3; Col. 1:16), accomplished His finished work of creation in six literal days, not billions of years ago, not millions of years ago, but in the recent past, a mere thousands of years ago. We stand with you in opposing evolutionary dogma which has plagued our society for over 200 years, has poisoned the minds of young people, and has robbed God of the glory which is rightfully His as the world's great Designer and Creator of every living thing and every inanimate object.

(Excerpt) Read more at middletownbiblechurch.org ...


TOPICS: Apologetics; Current Events; General Discusssion; Theology
KEYWORDS: icr; reform
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Great insight!
1 posted on 10/14/2010 7:07:23 PM PDT by The Ignorant Fisherman
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To: The Ignorant Fisherman

Good stuff.

For those of you who really don’t know much about creation theories, I plead with you to scan this:

http://creation.com/refuting-evolution-chapter-2-variation-and-natural-selection-versus-evolution

... and then go back and study it. I bet that you’ve never considered these things before, never even heard of the “orchard model” of creation. Please, for the love of truth, take some time and become informed. Just don’t roll your eyes and assume biblical creationists are ignorant luddites.


2 posted on 10/14/2010 7:18:16 PM PDT by Theo (May Rome decrease and Christ increase.)
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To: The Ignorant Fisherman

Thanks for the post. Bookmarked.


3 posted on 10/14/2010 7:25:31 PM PDT by FrdmLvr ( VIVA la SB 1070!)
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To: The Ignorant Fisherman

Hm. There’s a lot of good stuff in that article, but I don’t like how the author keeps criticizing a particular collection of Christians: Reformed creationists.

He wrote, for example, “I’m going to give several examples of how Reformed men (non-dispensational men) have abandoned the literal method of interpretation.”

Why do that? Why not simply promote the truth, rather than denigrate a particular group of people.

FWIW, I’m Reformed, and I’m a biblical creationist. And I hold most of the things that this author wrote to be true. So it’s kind of silly to accuse me wrongly, as though he’s the sage and I need to be corrected.

Bottom line: He makes some good points. I just wish he would have done so without demeaning as a group Reformed creationists like me.


4 posted on 10/14/2010 7:26:33 PM PDT by Theo (May Rome decrease and Christ increase.)
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To: The Ignorant Fisherman

Ha! Paleontology Schmaleontology.

5 posted on 10/14/2010 7:40:50 PM PDT by GunRunner
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To: The Ignorant Fisherman

Oh, dear.

If God plans to punish me for giving Him credit for evolution, He’s sure taking his time about it.


6 posted on 10/14/2010 7:48:45 PM PDT by Julia H. (This tagline for rent--only $999.99 a month!)
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To: Julia H.

Read a funny quote last night from Anne Coulter about her friend in an obit, something about how if evolution is true, we don’t seem too worried about any other mammals or reptiles catching up or surpassing us....

My God, by His Word put the entire universe in place, in motion, and all in time better than any swiss watch. Your problem in needing to believe in the fairy tale of evolution is that whatever God it is you worship, he’s way too small.


7 posted on 10/14/2010 8:21:43 PM PDT by Dogbert41
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To: Theo

http://antinomianism-salvation.blogspot.com/


8 posted on 10/14/2010 8:29:22 PM PDT by Benchim
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To: The Ignorant Fisherman
Why did God have Peter write IIPeter 3? Peter says there are/were THREE different heaven/earth AGES. The one that WAS, and says it was destroyed by water... Genesis 1:2 is first witness of a flood before Noah's flood.

And Peter says that ONE day with the LORD is as a thousand years, and how long did Methuselah live???? 969 years NOT quite ONE day with the LORD.

Creationists are NOT disproving evolution to claim it was only 6 literal days of creation when the WORD plainly says otherwise.

9 posted on 10/14/2010 8:32:18 PM PDT by Just mythoughts
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To: The Ignorant Fisherman
Thankfully I've been around a long time, 69 years - long enough to watch the disintegration of all 'mainstream' churches - and begin to follow the teaching of 'non-denominational' church leadership, who take the bible literally, word for word.

In my childhood days, in grade school in 1947, I saw Christianity come under assault by teachers that ridiculed Christian belief, and the content of the Bible. Evolution supposedly explained everything, they said my church was a collection of fools. For a while I thought they might be right.

But, then I found NASA scientists in the Bible Science Association that proved beyond any doubt that this is a very young earth. I learned the truth about the lies evolutionists tell us, and no longer doubt that the words of the Bible can indeed be taken literally - from cover to cover.

10 posted on 10/14/2010 8:32:43 PM PDT by Ron C.
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To: The Ignorant Fisherman; topcat54
Again we have the problem of inconsistency. Gary North understands the days in Genesis 1 literally, in their normal sense, as do so many Reformed creationists. However, he understands the years in Revelation 20 in a non-literal way, in a symbolic way. It fits his theology to make the days of Genesis 1 be literal days; it contradicts his theology to understand the millennium of Revelation 20 as a literal millennium of 1000 years. Should not the text of the Bible determine our theology instead of letting our theology govern how we understand the text?

OK, this is mostly a dispensationalist vs. everyone else thing.

I am not at all impressed by the dispensationalist's claim to "literal, plain sense" interpretation. It's rhetoric and bluster, often. They simply can not make good on that, with respect to time texts.

What is your favorite gap?

11 posted on 10/14/2010 8:43:04 PM PDT by Lee N. Field (Dispensational exegesis not supported by an a-, post- or historic pre-mil scholar will be ignored.)
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To: The Ignorant Fisherman

Well, there are some good insights, no doubt, but the author unfortunately lumps all reformed creationists into one category of eschatology, and that just isn’t the case. For example, I follow Spurgeon on this as a historic premillenialist. Most of the prophecies usually understood as literal by dispensationalists will indeed find a literal fulfillment, national Israel’s restoration, the visible return of Christ at a time of great crisis, etc.

However, one can go too far the other way and demand that all prophecies are yet future, as though nothing but a little bare history was fulfilled in Christ, and that would rob us blind of some of the sweetest insights ever bequeathed to us as believers. I have no problem seeing Christ as the river of life, because he really is this to me, and to all believers. That does not preclude a future where such a river may have physical expression as well. God had a heavenly temple at the same time as he had an earthly temple.

So it seems imprudent to suggest that only the dispensationalists are being honest with Scripture. In fact, I have serious problems with some key dispensational conclusions (pretribulational rapture, fundamental changes in the mode of salvation per dispensational epoch, pyramids as models of the New Jerusalem (yes, I’ve really heard that), etc.

For my own part, I look at how poorly the nation of Israel anticipated the manner in which all the prophecies of Jesus would be fulfilled in his first appearing, and I wonder whether we might do as poorly, when the reality is finally accomplished and we can reflect on our own performance.


12 posted on 10/14/2010 8:52:08 PM PDT by Springfield Reformer (Winston Churchill: No Peace Till Victory!)
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To: The Ignorant Fisherman; topcat54
We recognize that many of our Reformed brethren are staunch creationists, and for this we thank God and we stand with you. We join with you in your uncompromising affirmation that the Lord Jesus Christ, the Creator of all things (John 1:3; Col. 1:16), accomplished His finished work of creation in six literal days, not billions of years ago, not millions of years ago, but in the recent past, a mere thousands of years ago. We stand with you in opposing evolutionary dogma which has plagued our society for over 200 years, has poisoned the minds of young people, and has robbed God of the glory which is rightfully His as the world's great Designer and Creator of every living thing and every inanimate object.
I sensed there was another shoe waiting to drop following the excerpt. And I was right....
But in spite of your wonderful stand for creation and for the God of creation, I have some serious concerns about the way you interpret other parts of the Bible. It is evident that you have departed from the normal, literal interpretation of Scripture when it comes to the last book of the Bible as well as hundreds of other prophecies that relate to Israel and God's future kingdom. If literal interpretation serves us well for the first book in the Bible, then why would we abandon this approach when it comes to the last book of the Bible? If many Bible prophecies were literally fulfilled when the Lord Jesus Christ came to the earth the first time, then why would we not expect literal fulfillment when it comes to hundreds of prophecies that relate to the future of Israel, the kingdom and the Lord's second coming?
....Many Reformed creationists embrace what has been called "Replacement Theology." This view teaches that the Church has permanently replaced Israel as the instrument through which God works and that natural Israel does not have a future in the plan and purpose of God.
No Reformed, amillennial or postmillennial Christian that I know of believes that they're replacing the Jews in God's eschatology. In fact, it's the modern dispensationalist who thinks that the Jews have been replaced by the church until the church disappears in the rapture!

According to English and every other dispensationalist, the Church has replaced Israel until the rapture. The unfulfilled promises made to Israel are not fulfilled until after the Church is taken off the earth. Thomas Ice, one of dispensationalism’s rising stars, admits that the Church replaces Israel this side of the rapture: “We dispensationalists believe that the church has superseded Israel during the current church age, but God has a future time in which He will restore national Israel ‘as the institution for the administration of divine blessings to the world.’”
-- From the thread Answering the "Replacement Theology" Critics (Part 1)

“...the very category of ‘replacement’ is foreign to Reformed theology because it assumes a dispensational, Israeleo-centric way of thinking. It assumes that the temporary, national people was, in fact, intended to be the permanent arrangement.”
-- From the thread Replacing “Replacement” Theology

"The historical premillennialist's view interprets some prophecy in Scripture as having literal fulfillment while others demand a semi-symbolic fulfillment. As a case in point, the seal judgments (Revelation 6) are viewed as having fulfillment in the forces in history (rather than in future powers) by which God works out his redemptive and judicial purposes leading up to the end. Rather than the belief of an imminent return of Christ, it is held that a number of historical events (e.g., the rise of the Beast and the False Prophet) must take place before Christ's Second Coming. This Second Coming will be accompanied by the resurrection and rapture of the saints (1 Thessalonians 4:15-18); this will inaugurate the millennial reign of Christ. The Jewish nation, while being perfectly able to join the church in the belief of a true faith in Christ, has no distinct redemptive plan as they would in the dispensational perspective. The duration of the millennial kingdom (Revelation 20:1-6) is unsure: literal or metaphorical."
-- From the thread Four Views on the Millennium


I'm a victor in Christ!

13 posted on 10/14/2010 8:54:07 PM PDT by Alex Murphy ("Posting news feeds, making eyes bleed, he's hated on seven continents")
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To: Ron C.
But, then I found NASA scientists in the Bible Science Association that proved beyond any doubt that this is a very young earth.

Amazing that these men were hired by NASA when they obviously flunked freshman geology.

14 posted on 10/14/2010 9:00:36 PM PDT by GunRunner
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To: The Ignorant Fisherman

The Earth was not created in six days. If god was capable of creating a functioning world biosphere and all he would have done a much better job engineering his creatures particularly men. Posting things like this makes conservatives look like utter morons.

The bible was written by men trying to understand the work of god the best they knew how. It is not an infalliable document and six days for god could have just as easily meant six bllion years. The man created the universe after all no doube he percives time differently.


15 posted on 10/14/2010 9:25:55 PM PDT by utherdoul
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To: utherdoul
If god was capable of creating a functioning world biosphere and all he would have done a much better job engineering his creatures particularly men.

You said it.

I just had my tonsils out yesterday, and am very thankful for the 'creation' of high intensity pain relievers. It's almost ten years to the month that I had my wisdom teeth out.

In another 10 years maybe it'll be time for an emergency appendectomy. Some design.

16 posted on 10/14/2010 9:32:42 PM PDT by GunRunner
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To: utherdoul
The Earth was not created in six days. If god was capable of creating a functioning world biosphere and all he would have done a much better job engineering his creatures particularly men. Posting things like this makes conservatives look like utter morons. The bible was written by men trying to understand the work of god the best they knew how. It is not an infalliable document and six days for god could have just as easily meant six bllion years. The man created the universe after all no doube he percives time differently.

The Bible NOWHERE claims that the 'days' of creation are describing literal 24 hour days. Furthermore, Genesis 1:1 is a declaration of what God did and in no way is indicative of how much time this 'age' lasted.

Those that penned the WORD of God were His hand picked chosen, and it has been the liberal mindset down through the 'ages' that have injected their mindset into and onto the various translations we now have today.

There are some among us that are blinded from the truth and the age of this earth obviously fits... But an old old earth in no way changes or alters what God did when HE and the US and OUR that participated in the creation and formation of flesh human beings. Genesis 1:26 Then a completely different account is given in Genesis 2:7 a couple of 'days' later when 'the' Adam was formed of the dust of the ground....

AND GOD said what He did was good, it has been His creation that think so highly of themselves that deem themselves high minded enough to tell the potter what He did or did not do with His 'clay'...

17 posted on 10/14/2010 9:34:52 PM PDT by Just mythoughts
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To: Just mythoughts

Oh I’m an old creationist myself I have no doubt the Universe was created and possibly god stepped in and created our world. Personally though I think he seeded life and let nature develop on his own. The idea that Earth sprang into being fully formed is downright silly and if you ask most creationists they’ll say that the Earth was formed in six literal days. And if god had a direct hand in making man he would be a much more efficent creature than he is now.


18 posted on 10/14/2010 9:40:03 PM PDT by utherdoul
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To: utherdoul
Oh I’m an old creationist myself I have no doubt the Universe was created and possibly god stepped in and created our world. Personally though I think he seeded life and let nature develop on his own. The idea that Earth sprang into being fully formed is downright silly and if you ask most creationists they’ll say that the Earth was formed in six literal days. And if god had a direct hand in making man he would be a much more efficent creature than he is now.

Creationists that claim this earth is a mere 6,000 years old are not getting their evidence from the WORD. None of them can tell me when exactly it was that the devil rebelled. And yet the devil is right there in the Garden symbolizing a serpent.

Also creationists ignore what we are told in regard to the formation of 'the' Adam... he flesh was formed but he was not alive until the 'breath of life' which means soul was breathed into his nostrils... Now that begs the question when were the souls created as Moses does not even address that question.

But Christ did say that to see the kingdom of God one must be born from above, not again as so many read the mistranslation. Just as Christ came from above and His conception is described so did and does every soul that chooses to 'see' the kingdom of God.... Now that does not mean that every soul will 'enter' the kingdom but they have at least performed the first requirement.

And what we see of flesh bodies is merely the vessel that houses that soul for whatever period of time that flesh lives on this earth.... It is a journey and at some point in a shortened time frame every soul returns to the Maker that sent it. Some return in good standing and others are separate by what is called a 'gulf' very well aware they fell short.

Flesh man did not walk this earth at the same time the dino tramped and crawled, and flew. Had they been here Noah would have been required to house them when that flood was sent to wipe out the flesh beings that got caught up in an attempt to destroy the blood line to Christ.

TOE has been an utter flop in the attempt to deceive God's children from the truth of why they are here, and these short time creationists ignore willingly what Peter said they would nearly a 'couple' of days back with the Lord.

This flesh age is set aside for any who will to decide just who they will believe, but some are blinded for their own good....

19 posted on 10/14/2010 9:57:32 PM PDT by Just mythoughts
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To: utherdoul
"The Earth was not created in six days. If god was capable of creating a functioning world biosphere and all he would have done a much better job engineering his creatures particularly men."

You're not familiar with the fall? It corrupted everything.

20 posted on 10/15/2010 4:08:03 AM PDT by circlecity
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