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Church of England is Fascist and Vindictive, Says Bishop Defecting to Rome
The Daily Telegraph (UK) ^ | 10/16/10 | Jonathan Wynne-Jones and David Harrison

Posted on 10/16/2010 8:13:15 PM PDT by marshmallow

An Anglican bishop has attacked his Church as "vicious" and "fascist" as he explained his decision to defect to the Roman Catholic Church.

The Rt Rev John Broadhurst, the Bishop of Fulham, accused the Church of England of breaking promises to make provisions for opponents of women's ordination.

He warned that the Pope's invitation to disaffected Anglicans to join the Catholic Church would appeal to traditionalists dismayed at their treatment.

His comments came as a parish in the Archbishop of Canterbury's own diocese became the first in the country to announce that it would defect to Rome, with one parishioner declaring: "The Pope's offer was the answer to our prayers."

St Peter's Church in Folkestone, Kent, has decided to join the Ordinariate, a system designed by the Vatican to allow Anglicans to convert while maintaining parts of their heritage.

Bishop Broadhurst, who announced his decision to resign on Friday, predicted that many more would leave the Church of England in the months ahead.

"I think the Ordinariate will cause a huge shock," he said.

"A lot of people have said it won't happen and have underestimated the impact that it will have.

"I don't feel I have any choice but to leave the Church and take up the Pope's offer. The General Synod has become vindictive and vicious.

"It has been fascist in its behaviour, marginalising those who have been opposed to women's ordination. We have not been given any space."

The bishop, who was one of three prelates at a secret Vatican summit earlier this year, said he was disappointed to be leaving the Church of England, but that the concerns of traditionalists had been ignored.

"The Pope generously made an offer providing a home for our Catholic heritage at the same time as the Church of England............

(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Ecumenism; Mainline Protestant; Other non-Christian
KEYWORDS: freformed; gaychurch; ordinariate
"Church of England is fascist and vindictive, says bishop defecting to Rome

I say there..........steady on, old chap.

Seriously, recriminations and bitterness won't help the Ordinariate. Close the door quietly behind you when you leave and move on.

1 posted on 10/16/2010 8:13:18 PM PDT by marshmallow
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To: marshmallow
Seriously, recriminations and bitterness won't help the Ordinariate

I'm not Catholic or Anglican but I respectfully disagree with what you said. I think that a very public rebuke to the leftists who have wormed their way into positions of power and then abused that power by "changing" society, is always appropriate. I hope that this "message" is sent loud and clear, over and over again... as large numbers of parishes leave the Anglican church.

A church lives and dies on it's donations, here's hoping that the Anglican lefties lose a LOT of their money!!!!

2 posted on 10/16/2010 8:28:11 PM PDT by DCBurgess58 (In a Capitalist society, men exploit other men. In a Communist society it's exactly the opposite.)
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To: DCBurgess58

This appears to me to be Old Testament “Legalism”. It is all completely irrelevant according to the Gospel. I assume these people are saved if they believe in Jesus as the Son of God. If they do not, then they will go to hell.It is all right here.http://antinomianism-salvation.blogspot.com/


3 posted on 10/16/2010 8:33:43 PM PDT by Benchim
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To: marshmallow; Radagast the Fool; DoctorBulldog; Celtic Cross; Grizzled Bear; ScoopAmma; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.

4 posted on 10/16/2010 8:39:20 PM PDT by narses ( 'Prefer nothing to the love of Christ.')
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To: Benchim
Antinomianism is a position that says the law no longer matters. It is a false teaching.

There are serious issues here of which you seem unaware.

5 posted on 10/16/2010 8:45:39 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: marshmallow

I don’t see it as recriminations and bitterness, really. He is speaking the Truth, and they have been bullied and side-stepped. He is drawing a line in the sand, and he is right to do so. They have been talking about it since 1992; the time has come.


6 posted on 10/16/2010 8:56:03 PM PDT by bboop (Stealth Tutor)
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To: marshmallow

Being neither Catholic nor Anglican, I don’t have a dog in this fight. But speaking generally it’s always been my observation that a woman is more likely to be a genuine believer then a man is. In an era of spiritual decline, all hands on deck seems sensible.

The Bishop should be less concerned about woman ministers and more outraged his Church for some time now has pretty much abandoned belief in God and Christ as defining and essential for its (male) clergy. His priorities seem skewed.


7 posted on 10/16/2010 9:08:23 PM PDT by tlb
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To: marshmallow
Exactly. People are free to change religions and, if the available brands out there do not suit them, are free to start their own. I've never been impressed with any new converts to any religion who are more interested in screaming negativity about their former religion than they are about stressing the positive about their new home which led to their decision.

A person so obsessed with sh*tting on their former church is just as likely to do the same when things don't go their way in their new home. Most religions will overlook this type of thing because they are confident of who they are and their roots. But try this with Islam and you could wake up dead.

8 posted on 10/16/2010 9:09:21 PM PDT by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: hinckley buzzard

What are they? Are they series?


9 posted on 10/16/2010 9:16:24 PM PDT by Benchim
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To: Benchim
"This appears to me to be Old Testament “Legalism”. It is all completely irrelevant according to the Gospel. I assume these people are saved if they believe in Jesus as the Son of God. If they do not, then they will go to hell."

I had a friend who believed in once saved always saved. He went to bed with every other married woman in the church. He does not believe in any "legalism" either. He has no conscience any more.

10 posted on 10/16/2010 9:34:42 PM PDT by johngrace (God so loved the world so he gave his only son! Praise Jesus and Hail Mary!)
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To: johngrace

You need to talk to him and remind him that those of us who love the Lord for his sacrifice and propitiation of our sins respond in ways to please the Father, not to grieve him. (Of course we are totally saved if we don’t.) Read about the greatest and most famous Sinner in Romans chapter 7.


11 posted on 10/16/2010 9:50:26 PM PDT by Benchim
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To: marshmallow

My ancestor was the first Archbishop of Canterbury under the Church of England. He broke the old Catholic rule for a priest and married. The decision to allow the ordination of women would seem to be in the same continuum of recognizing healthy human relationships.


12 posted on 10/16/2010 10:42:43 PM PDT by marsh2
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To: DCBurgess58
A church lives and dies on it's donations, here's hoping that the Anglican lefties lose a LOT of their money!!!!


And a lot of these older parishes are stuck with 100-150 year old churches that are very expensive to maintain, apparently with little help from their local bishops...

The English “listed buildings” laws don't help either - updates are hard and expensive to make.

13 posted on 10/16/2010 10:48:31 PM PDT by az_gila (AZ - one Governor down... we don't want her back...)
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To: Benchim
It is all completely irrelevant according to the Gospel. I assume these people are saved if they believe in Jesus as the Son of God..

That's true but this is the same crowd that keeps pushing the envelope. Next comes support for "gay priests". Best to get the heck out of dodge and take your money with you... IMHO

14 posted on 10/16/2010 11:07:50 PM PDT by DCBurgess58 (In a Capitalist society, men exploit other men. In a Communist society it's exactly the opposite.)
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To: marsh2
My ancestor was the first Archbishop of Canterbury under the Church of England. He broke the old Catholic rule for a priest and married. The decision to allow the ordination of women would seem to be in the same continuum of recognizing healthy human relationships.

Your ancestor, (Cranmer, I assume?) would roll over in his grave at the abuses of the Church of England today. Men like this bishop WERE promised, at various times in various ways, not to have to violate their closely held religious consciences by being under the authority of female bishops (this isn't about mere ordination-to-the-ministry, it's about supervising the whole church, in the office of Bishop) and that's all been suddenly taken away from them, by fiat, in a fascist way (just like liberals always seem to work, when others aren't looking).

The religious reformation of the 1500s, which Archbishop Cranmer was a leader in, was about the authority of the Bible....whereas the feminist push here is just about modernist/liberal/social issues--in league with homosexual ordination too, having nothing to do with the Church trying to follow the bible more carefully.

This man was forced out, because of his reliance on conscience, and the CofE has moved to crush him.

Bravo that he's standing up for his principles--even if that means going back to Rome.

15 posted on 10/16/2010 11:25:11 PM PDT by AnalogReigns
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To: Benchim
"I assume these people are saved if they believe in Jesus as the Son of God."

Satan believes that. It takes more than just intellectual assent.

16 posted on 10/17/2010 4:40:56 AM PDT by circlecity
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To: tlb

Saint Paul disagrees.


17 posted on 10/17/2010 6:13:02 AM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro is a Kenyan communist)
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To: marshmallow

I usually agree with you, but respectfully disagree in this case. It’s a bishop’s job to speak the truth, so that his flock may know it. This could possibly be a wakeup call to others who have stuck it out in the Anglican Church as it departs from the teachings that all Christians, Catholic and Protestant, have followed—for instance, that abortion and homosexual acts are wrong.

When a church hierarchy departs from the truth, then they are only too likely to become like Nazis, interested only in power and ideology and repressing all those who speak up for God and the truth.

I was born into the Anglican Church myself, and converted in college. I am very sorry to see the terrible things that have been happening in that church, pushed by the hierarchy itself. I would hope that somehow they could straighten themselves out. But in the meantime, the individuals in that communion deserve to be told the truth and be given a chance to decide for themselves.


18 posted on 10/17/2010 7:32:07 AM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius.)
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To: Benchim

You think that indulging in homosexuality and women’s ordination have nothing to do with violating the gospel?


19 posted on 10/17/2010 8:07:43 AM PDT by vladimir998 (Part of the Vast Catholic Conspiracy (hat tip to Kells))
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To: marshmallow

I don’t think “fascist” belongs in an intelligent conversation — unless someone is discussing Italian politics of the first half of 20 c.

It is unusual for a convert to Catholicism to be bitter toward his prior confession. Typically, one converts because he find a fuller faith in Rome, but not a different faith. I haven’t met a convert who would not say about the Catholic catechism: “Wow, that is what I always believed!”.

But the bishop’s situation is different. I think, in his case, and in the case of many orthodox Anglicans, it is a bitterness toward the formal structures of modern Anglicanism, which, it should be evident, betrayed their own flock. I detect the same bitterness in several interviews Markus Grodi had with the Anglican converts. They are just dismayed at the treatment the Church of England gave its conservative wing.


20 posted on 10/17/2010 8:07:53 AM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: marsh2
The decision to allow the ordination of women would seem to be in the same continuum of recognizing healthy human relationships.

Oh yes? Where does the ordination of open homosexuals fall in that continuum?
21 posted on 10/17/2010 1:37:55 PM PDT by Antoninus (It's long past time for conservatives to stop voting for Republican liberals. Enough!)
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To: circlecity

Seriously, please give me the full list you like and then rean John 3:16 three times and then tell me about your list.


22 posted on 10/17/2010 2:03:59 PM PDT by Benchim
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To: vladimir998

What happens if you “violate the Gospel”? That is a new one. I thought Jesus died for our sins if we simply believe he is the Son of God? Is that not true or does that “violate” your Gospel?


23 posted on 10/17/2010 2:09:09 PM PDT by Benchim
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To: Benchim

You wrote:

“What happens if you “violate the Gospel”?”

If a man sins and does not repent he is lost. The more serious the sin the more serious the risk to our souls. 1 John 5:16-17. Mark 1:14-15. Acts 3:19. Acts 20:21. Luke 13:3,5. And when we repent it is not just an act on our part. Romans 2:4. Acts 5:31; 11:18. 2 Tim. 2:25. 2 Cor. 7:10.

“That is a new one.”

Nope. Type in “violate the gospel” in google and see for yourself.

“I thought Jesus died for our sins if we simply believe he is the Son of God?”

Jesus died for our sins whether we believe in Him or not. He did not just redeem the few. He redeemed everyone. Not everyone will be saved, however. To be saved more is to be held than mere belief in the divinity of Jesus. Jesus Himself tells us we must be obedient. John 14:21 and 15:10.

“Is that not true or does that “violate” your Gospel?”

Both. And it isn’t my gospel. It’s Christ’s.


24 posted on 10/17/2010 4:22:29 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Part of the Vast Catholic Conspiracy (hat tip to Kells))
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To: Benchim

Belief is not just intellectual assent. Paul tells us you must believe with your heart, not just with your mind. This is the kind of belief John is referring to in 3:16, a belief with entails total surrender and commitment. Jesus further says, “If you love me you will follow my commandments”.


25 posted on 10/17/2010 5:46:00 PM PDT by circlecity
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To: vladimir998

I want you to rest in your salvation so you will not be conflicted, brother. You are completely misguided by the legalistic “church” for the sake of making you feel guilty if you don’t give money and worship idols including their building and that “preacher”. You are hopelessly lost in ambiguity. Please , for your own good and for your family read this special message http://antinomianism-salvation.blogspot.com/p/three-legged-stool-of-salvation.html


26 posted on 10/17/2010 6:41:35 PM PDT by Benchim
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To: circlecity

Can you list for me the commandments of Jesus besides “love your neighbor”?


27 posted on 10/17/2010 7:25:21 PM PDT by Benchim
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To: Benchim

You wrote:

“I want you to rest in your salvation so you will not be conflicted, brother.”

There’s no chance I will ever be conflicted.

“You are completely misguided by the legalistic “church” for the sake of making you feel guilty if you don’t give money and worship idols including their building and that “preacher”.”

I have no idea what you’re talking about. 1) I am not misguided in the least. 2) The Church is not legalistic. 3) The Church has never once made me feel guilty about anything. 4) The Church has never made me feel guilty about giving money or not giving money. 5) I have never worshipped idols nor has the Church got any idols nor has it encouraged me in the least to worship any. 6) You are wrong about everything.

“You are hopelessly lost in ambiguity.”

Nope. I am not lost in anything let alone ambiguity. I guess this is your response since you can’t refute scripture.

“Please , for your own good and for your family read this special message http://antinomianism-salvation.blogspot.com/p/three-legged-stool-of-salvation.html";

I read over the first half, realized it was full of distortions and decided I was not in the mood for Protestant trash when I could simply keep believing the actual gospel instead. Take “Leg 2” for instance. Only a moron would believe that imputed righteousness is what Christ shed His last drop of blood for. Christ died so that we could become like Him by sharing in His hard won grace. He did not die so that we could just claim something we never actually become. Hebrews 12:23-24. We share in God’s holiness. It is not merely imputed to us. Hebrews 12:10.

I suggest you actually read the Bible. If the Bible is too hard for you - and apparently it is - you might want to try Robert Sungenis’ How Can I Get to Heaven?: The Bible’s Teaching on Salvation-Made Easy to Understand.


28 posted on 10/17/2010 8:13:25 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Part of the Vast Catholic Conspiracy (hat tip to Kells))
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To: Benchim
You are hopelessly lost in ambiguity.

Welcome to FR, but you will find very few active FReeper Catholics "hopelessly lost" in any kind of "ambiguity".

We are crystal clear on what we believe. It's the true Good News of Christ's redeeming work, and stands up against every error cooked up by the itching ears of men for the last 2000 years.

Please , for your own good and for your family read this special message

Please, for your own good and for your family read the Gospel of John, chapter 6. If you think any part of that is symbolism or metaphor, read Ignatius of Antioch to the Smyrnaeans, chapter 7 (given that Ignatius knew the Apostles personally, I think he has at least as much right to be heard as the authors of "antinomianism-salvation.blogspot.com", don't you?), and tell me why Ignatius doesn't think it is.

29 posted on 10/17/2010 10:30:20 PM PDT by Campion
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To: Benchim

There is also the superior command to love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength. The details of how you do this are spelled out in the Sermon on the Mount Chapt. 5-7 of Matthew - a standard of behavior nobody has ever lived up to for even an hour of their life. Jesus expects to devote ourselfs to living up to this standard and express repentence for our failures to do so.


30 posted on 10/18/2010 4:43:08 AM PDT by circlecity
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To: tlb

Actually the hullabaloo about priestesses is just the banner they’re going under — they’ve realised that the CoE right now is godless, but in true CoE tradition, they won’t say that out aloud, but use an excuse instead to say why they’re leaving


31 posted on 10/18/2010 6:32:58 AM PDT by Cronos (Ojciec i Syn i Duch Swiety)
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To: Vigilanteman

in Islam, if you leave, as per Shariah, you must be executed. No two ways about that. It’s the religious rule.


32 posted on 10/18/2010 6:33:57 AM PDT by Cronos (Ojciec i Syn i Duch Swiety)
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To: marsh2
The decision to allow the ordination of women would seem to be in the same continuum of recognizing healthy human relationships.

I'm guessing you don't, but will still ask - Do you consider gay "marriages" a "healthy human relationship"?

This hullabaloo over priestesses is just a mask for the increasing anti-Christianity of the CoE, as exemplified by the gay "marriages", promotion of abortion, free divorce etc.
33 posted on 10/18/2010 6:47:58 AM PDT by Cronos (Ojciec i Syn i Duch Swiety)
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To: Cronos
Some of these idiots who think conversion to Islam is a way to shock society now that nose jewels and a gaudy tattoo have become so commonplace may find that out the hard way.
34 posted on 10/18/2010 7:03:57 AM PDT by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: circlecity

“a standard of behavior nobody has ever lived up to for even an hour of their life.”
I rest my case. Obviously you deny the sacrifice of Christ who save you on the cross. You don’t need anything else but to believe in him . Please read this. http://antinomianism-salvation.blogspot.com/p/when-are-you-saved.html. My desire is to give you total peace.


35 posted on 10/18/2010 5:57:13 PM PDT by Benchim
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To: vladimir998

“and decided I was not in the mood for Protestant trash when I could simply keep believing the actual gospel instead.”

Wow!!do you really want to go there? Is your “priest” a pedophile? ( one of thousands}. Now that is some real trash.
If you would like to discuss the Gospel then that is a horrible way to start.


36 posted on 10/18/2010 6:03:26 PM PDT by Benchim
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To: Campion

He is an object of worship by you that is either illegitimate or non-functioning in its professed authority or capability.


37 posted on 10/18/2010 6:08:16 PM PDT by Benchim
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To: Benchim

As I said before, Satan believes in him. Is Satan saved?


38 posted on 10/18/2010 7:30:14 PM PDT by circlecity
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To: circlecity

As I said . You deny Christ died for your sins.You are doomed.


39 posted on 10/18/2010 7:37:09 PM PDT by Benchim
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To: Benchim

I merely quote Christ’s brother James - was he “doomed” too? Does quoting scripture, in context, doom one?


40 posted on 10/18/2010 7:40:30 PM PDT by circlecity
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To: circlecity

James was the jealous “brother” of Jesus who belittled him after he arose from the dead and pushed the insane position that one goes to heaven because of “works”. That is a total contradiction to Paul in Romans ,Galatians, Ephesians etc. Paul wrote 13 of 27 books in the new testament and had much more credibility than James , the jealous son of Mary and Joseph. I give no credence to James and think his book should have been cut when the Cannons were selected 400 years after the resurrection of Christ. It is all in my blog here :http://antinomianism-salvation.blogspot.com/


41 posted on 10/18/2010 7:51:28 PM PDT by Benchim
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To: Benchim

You wrote:

“Wow!!do you really want to go there?”

I was there years ago.

“Is your “priest” a pedophile? ( one of thousands}.”

No, none of my priests have been. EVER. And that question of yours seems to be the typical Protestant admission of defeat in the argument. You apparently can’t argue the actual matter in hand so you bring up something that has nothing to do with me really and has nothing to do with the teachings of the Church.

“Now that is some real trash.”

What you’re writing is. What I wrote was simply true.

“If you would like to discuss the Gospel then that is a horrible way to start.”

Nope. Everything I wrote is true. Your opinion of the truth is irrelevant.

I posted scriptural based arguments. You posted a link to something that clearly didn’t even make sense. Run all you like. The truth will stand.


42 posted on 10/18/2010 8:53:25 PM PDT by vladimir998 (Part of the Vast Catholic Conspiracy (hat tip to Kells))
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