Posted on 10/18/2010 10:45:49 AM PDT by T Minus Four
When the Lord told the Jaredites he would lead them to a new land (Ether 2:7), he also instructed them to build eight barges to traverse the waters to their new destination (v. 16).
According to Ether, these barges, which were patterned after Noah's Ark (6:7), were "tight like unto a dish," peaked at both ends and had holes that could be unplugged to allow ventilation (2:17, 20).
The story of Noah, or some equivalent figure, is found in a wide array of ancient non-biblical literature and could easily have been known to the ancient Jaredites. Some of these traditions about the Ark — or "deluge boat" — contain details and oddities not found in the Bible.
Dr. Hugh Nibley has shown that several of these non-biblical details and oddities are also found in the Jaredite account.
Some of these ancient sources, for example, claim that the shape of the deluge boat resembled a crescent moon when viewed from the profile. Like the Jaredite barges, it would have been peaked on both ends. Artwork of actual sea-going vessels from the Tyrians and Sidonians show that some boats really had such a shape.
Although the book of Ether never says that the Jaredite barges had sails, we are told (as noted in a last week's installment) that the barges were driven by furious winds (Ether 6:5-9). While the Bible never mentions that wind was a factor in propelling the Ark, the deluge boat was supposedly sail-less but driven by ferocious winds.
Just as the Jaredite barges were "tight like unto a dish," the deluge boat had a portal that could be shut during the storm flood. The word "ark," in fact, originally meant a "box" — such as a chest or coffin — that was covered with a lid. And just as the barges had ventilation holes, the Ark had not only a door that could be shut but at least one nappashu, which is translated as "air-hole" or "window" but means "breather" or "ventilator" and was not an ordinary window. The Jaredite barges and the deluge boat both took on almost submarine-like natures, often being submerged in violent waves during their voyage.
Concerned about the lack of light in the barges, the brother of Jared asked the Lord for some means of illumination. Glass would break, the Lord replied, and they couldn't light fires, so the Lord turned the problem back over to the brother of Jared. Having complete faith in the Lord's abilities, the brother of Jared climbed a mountain, "did molten out of rock" 16 small transparent stones and asked the Lord to touch the stones so they would shine in their vessels.
While the tale of "shining stones" has elicited the laughs of critics, we find that the story is perfectly at home in ancient lore. According to the ancient Palestine Talmud, for example, the Ark was illuminated with a miraculous light-giving stone. This precious stone supposedly glowed for 12 months inside the Ark and would dim during the day so that Noah knew if it was day or night outside.
Such information was likely unavailable to Joseph Smith. As Dr. Nibley explains, of the four copies of the Palestine Talmud that mention the Ark's shining stones, two appeared 30 years after Joseph had already translated the Book of Mormon. When the Book of Mormon was published, there was not a single translation of the Palestine Talmud available in any modern language.
As noted above, it was the brother of Jared, not the Lord, who suggested the idea of the shining stones. It seems reasonable to surmise that the brother of Jared was familiar with an ancient tradition of Noah and his illuminated stones. One of those ancient sources (unknown in 1830) relates the tradition of a gem that could be produced by subjecting certain stones to intense heat. The resulting gem would be a perfectly transparent crystal which shined as brightly as the sun (see the same elements in Ether 3:2, 4).
The common name for this gem was "Moonfriend," or Jalakanta, which interprets, "that which causes the waters to part." Thus the peculiar power of this shining gem enabled its possessor to pass through the depths of water unharmed.
The Ark was also called a "bright house" or moon-boat, not only "because it was crescent-shaped and wandered through space for 12 months, but also because it was illuminated by a miraculous light." While ancient Babylonian texts tell us that the deluge-boat had a "window" or nappashu, the "window" in Genesis comes from the Hebrew tsohar, which also translates as "shiner" or "illuminator."
The Book of Mormon version, which is a fuller account than any other, contains both ideas — that the barges had a ventilator as well as an illuminator.
Unnecessary but allowed vitriol ping
That explains everything!
Dr. Hugh Nibley
‘nuf said...
...along with lepreachans, cyclops [cyclopsez?], goblins, dwarfs, unicorns, spinning straw to gold, magic beans and fairies.
It should start with "Once upon a time..."
Glass would break, the lord replied,
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GLASS ???
Hundreds of years before it was invented ???
and the mormon lord could not make a glass that wouldnt break ???
they couldn’t light fires
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Why not ???
EPA would fine them ???
How were Noah and his family able to have fires on their ASrk but Joey Smith kept his ficticious characters freezing and without cooked food
and in the dark without light from oil lamps ???
the brother of Jared was familiar with an ancient tradition of Noah and his illuminated stones. One of those ancient sources (unknown in 1830)
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What illuminated stones ???
And how come Joey Smiths characters back 2,000 years ago knew something that was not known in 1830 ???
Was the knowledge forgotten, lost ???
Still in need of ‘restoring’ ???
If it was an ancient source then why was it unknown in 1830 and yet Joey Smith who was writingt in 1830 seemed to know it ???
DFUH DUH and again I say DUH
Plus if Joey Smith had ever picked up a Bible that was an ancient source also containing the story of Noah and how God told him to build the Ark, he would have found out for hiomself how stupid he really was...
When the Book of Mormon was published, there was not a single translation of the Palestine Talmud available in any modern language.
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Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Did Hugh convenintly forget that Joey Smith was learning Hebrew at one time ???
Or did the mormon god not about to read Hebrew ???
Or is he just admitting that Joey Smith wrote his book of mormon without doing any research or proper sourcing of its contents ???
When the Book of Mormon was published, there was not a single translation of the Palestine Talmud available in any modern language.
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Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Did Hugh convenintly forget that Joey Smith was learning Hebrew at one time ???
Or was the mormon god not able to read Hebrew ???
Or is he just admitting that Joey Smith wrote his book of mormon without doing any research or proper sourcing of its contents ???
it is like a sci-fi novel
so the lord turned the problem back over to the brother of Jared.
it was the brother of Jared, not the lord, who suggested the idea of the shining stones.
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So the mormon lord was helpless and needed the help of mere mortals...
well after all he was just a man himself at one time...
Thats why its best to believe in and worship the LORD Jesus Christ of the Christian Bible...
God always knows how to do things...
A bad one...
Stargate it is not...
Years ago a Mormon member of my National Guard unit (he was nicknamed `Tailgate’ for his one piece holy underwear) kept pushing the equalness of the BoM with the Bible. In one book with a funny name (Alma, Mosiah, Ether, Nephi, I forget) there was constant mention of “the brother of Jared”, just over and over again.
When I asked if this brother of Jared dude had a real name of his own, ol’ Tailgate piped up that the twelve Apostles in Salt Lake City had just received a divine revelation that BoJ’s actual name was.....(drumroll).....
“Moroni Moriancumr”
Anyway, I thought these Nephite cruise arks were also capable of traveling submerged (to avoid storms on the surface, you see).
;^)
Well he is only human...
Hmmm...just a "few" original obvous-as-day design problems...like...
access to air;
lack of light;
steering
Of course, Ash, citing the Book of Mormon, says the light problem was taken care of...the problem is that the Mormon god gives the original design for this thing with his own personal instructions. And then had to hear a complaint from the builders about "hey, what about light?"
These were all things clearly NOT addressed from the get-go; and weren't addressed by the builders as they went along despite the obviousness of these problems. Unfortunately, Joseph Smith & his Book of Mormon presents his god as a forgetful or neglectful designer -- a bumbling, afterthought Mormon god who was fortunate he had a "consultant" like Jared to catch the divine designer's fatal flaws.
(And, as if Jared was some "brilliant" ship planner, material gathered, 8-vessel constructor in the first place. I mean, how could one work on something for months-on-end, & not notice its superb suffocation & dark-as-night internal features? As one Ph.D author asked: Is it sensible that all of these shipbuilders... waited until the end to realize, Oh, wait! We forgot that our animals will need to breathe in here.) Source: Jaredite Ship-Building Technology
BTW, I highly encourage people to go to the above link and look at the 40 questions this author raises...particularly given all the animals that were taken with them.
And I didn't include Ether 2:17, which says all of the sides (including top & bottom) were "tight like a dish" -- meaning like a ball just rolling on the ocean at the total mercy of winds, waves, currents, etc!...and then presents the Mormon god as "solving" the air/light problem by opening up a hole in the bottom of the barge!
So let's summarize the "problems" with this craft that were not addressed in the original divine "ark-"itectural plan:
1. Its overall poor original "God-breathed" design (2:15-19) [Would a god really give such poor, 'can't-help-but-miss' personal instructions for such a fatally-flawed craft from a design perspective?]
2. Its poor original "God-breathed" design still left unaddressed before departing
3. Its poor original light design problem
4. Lack of steering...at total mercy of waves & wind (Ether 2:17)
5. Its designed upside-down ventures (Ether 2:24-25; 6:5-7)
6. Its poor animal-care features and "gameplan" of how to deal with animal poop and animal smells (ventilation issue) and even how much food would be required for such animals. See Jaredite Ship-Building Technology for a complete run-down of questions dealing with this aspect.
Ping to the inmans!
Does this have anything to do with Obama going on the MythBuster’s show?
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