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Church: Mormons can't lead Scouts
Charlotte Observer ^ | Oct. 19, 2010 | Tim Funk

Posted on 10/19/2010 8:21:21 AM PDT by Colofornian

In shopping around for a Cub Scout program for their two sons, ages 6 and 8, Jeremy and Jodi Stokes decided on the one at Christ Covenant Church in Matthews.

The Stokes, also of Matthews, weren't members of the evangelical megachurch, but they had many friends who were. And unlike the Cub Scout pack at their own church, which doesn't have a program for 6-year-old Tiger Scouts, Christ Covenant's was big enough to accommodate both of their boys.

The couple even signed up to be Scout leaders - he would lead the Bears, she'd help with the Tigers - when they discovered the church needed more adult help. And when the Scouting officials at Christ Covenant found out Jeremy Stokes was an Eagle Scout, they were thrilled.

So why, in the end, did Christ Covenant reject the Stokes' application to be Scout leaders?

Because they're Mormons. And, therefore, not real Christians, church officials told the couple last month.

The Rev. Gabe Sylvia, Christ Covenant's staff liaison to the Scouting program, confirmed the Stokes' account. He called them to apologize but defends the church's decision.

"Based on a once-over, informal scan, it looked like the Stokes would be good additions to our leadership," he said. "But when it became clear that they were Mormons, they could not become leaders in our pack. Mormonism is not consistent with historical Christianity."

That view - that Mormons are not Christians - is shared by other Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox Christian churches. Mormons, though, do call themselves Christians.

The Stokes were told their sons were welcome to join, and that they could volunteer. But as practicing Mormons, they couldn't be leaders.

Scout Council: It's unusual

Mark Turner, executive director of the Mecklenburg County Council of the Boy Scouts, said it's the first local instance he knows of where parents were rejected for Scout leadership on religious grounds.

What upset the Stokes family most was the church questioning their Christianity.

"It was so offensive," said Jodi Stokes, who was raised Catholic, then became a Mormon. "I have a picture of Jesus in my living room."

And, she added, look at the formal name of their church: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Jeremy Stokes, a Bank of America financial consultant whose family has been in the LDS (Latter-day Saints) church for generations, wrote this when asked on Christ Covenant's Scouting application to describe his relationship with Christ: "One of the most important things in my life is my faith and trust in Christ and in His Atonement. Without Christ's help and guidance, I know I wouldn't be the loving father or devoted husband or humble man I am today. His example is the one help I need and rely on every day and I am truly grateful for that."

Bishop Steven Rowlan of the LDS ward, or parish, which the Stokes attend in Weddington, acknowledged that Mormon theology diverges from some beliefs shared by most Protestants, Catholics and Orthodox Christians. But he insisted members of the LDS church are as Christian as the members of Christ Covenant.

"Yes, there are distinct differences," he said. "But not with respect to being a Christian. We definitely and truly are Christians in every sense of the word."

Not true, say Catholic, Protestant and Orthodox churches. They point to the LDS church's extra-biblical scriptures (Mormons abide by the Bible and the Book of Mormon). Mormons also reject the professions of faith, or Christian creeds, that are recited on Sundays in many Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant churches.

But the Stokes case raises another issue: Do Scout leaders or coaches of sports teams have to pass the same religious tests as, say, Sunday school teachers, if those troops and teams are chartered by houses of worship?

Packs at other churches

No is the answer at many churches, including Charlotte's largest - St. Matthew Catholic, with 28,000 members.

"We have Scout leaders of many faiths at St. Matthew," said Mike Nielsen, Scoutmaster of Boy Scout Troop 8. "Other than the Scoutmaster - that one job, which goes to a Catholic - I've never heard any mention of the faith of other (Cub Scout and Boy Scout) leaders."

But at Christ Covenant - the largest Presbyterian Church of America church in the Carolinas, with 600 families - the answer is yes.

"Boy Scouts is a ministry of our church," said Sylvia, the church's pastor for Christian Education and Young Families. "We want to insure that what (Scout leaders) believe is consistent with our denominational viewpoint."

For Sylvia, that at least means that Scout leaders must believe in the Apostles' Creed - a profession of faith dating back to the early centuries of Christianity.

Stelle Snyder, the spokeswoman for Christ Covenant, said it could even extend beyond that. A decade ago, she said, the church had to say no to a Catholic dad who wanted to coach one of the church's sports teams. Catholics, she said, often stress good works as the road to salvation more than many Protestants, who emphasize grace. And she said it's part of the role of coaches in her church's sports outreach program to share Bible stories.

"From the standpoint of ministering and representing the church, those people (coaches and Scout leaders) need to be on the same page," Snyder said. "In practice and intent, this is not meant to be unwelcome, unpleasant or unnecessarily legalistic. It's all for positive reasons. And it's not that Mormons have been singled out."

Turner, executive director of Mecklenburg's Boy Scouts Council, said Christ Covenant is within its rights as a chartering organization to apply additional leadership qualifications, as long as it also honors those the Boy Scouts insist on.

Some of the Boy Scouts' national guidelines have also been controversial and, to some, discriminatory. Because the Boy Scout pledge includes fealty to God and country, no atheists and agnostics can be members or leaders. Neither can homosexuals.

In Mecklenburg, Turner estimates 150 houses of worship charter Boy Scout troops and/or Cub Scout packs - a greater number than those sponsored by civic organizations, neighborhoods, and other groups.

Asked if other houses of worship apply theological tests for their Scouting leaders, Turner said he didn't know. "We're not asking that question out there," he said.

Should they?

"I think it's a good question," Turner said. "Scout leaders are mentors to young people, whether they're 7 years old or 13 years old. If that charter organization feels strongly about that and says our mission is to achieve 'X' objective through scouting, then it's OK for them to set these parameters."

Blatant racial discrimination would be another story, he said, with the council reserving the right to revoke any group's charter.

As for the Stokes family, Turner said, what happened was "unfortunate... We in the Boy Scouts want everybody - the whole family - to have a great experience, not a bad experience."

Stokes find Scouting home

Though the family pulled their sons out of the Christ Covenant scouting program, they have since signed up their 8-year-old for the smaller Cub Scout pack chartered by their Mormon ward in Weddington. The bishop has named Jeremy Stokes the pack Cubmaster and Jodi Stokes chair of the Scout committee.

"My little guy (the 6-year-old) can't join, so he tags along," his mother said.

Nationally, the Mormon church has a close relationship with the Boy Scouts of America. What is the Mormon church's rules about appointing Scout leaders?

Mormon Bishop Rowlan, who heads the Stokes' Weddington church, would not say whether he would be open to naming a non-Mormon as a Scouting leader.

"I'd have to take each one on an individual basis," he said, adding that that is the policy of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

At Christ Covenant, meanwhile, Rev. Sylvia and spokeswoman Snyder said the Stokes case will prompt the church to clarify policies that were always understood, but not necessarily written down.

"There's a need for us to be much more specific, so that it's clear whoever is in a leadership position is consistent with what Christ Covenant teaches," said Snyder.


TOPICS: Evangelical Christian; Other Christian; Religion & Culture; Theology
KEYWORDS: beck; boyscouts; glennbeck; lds; mormon; presbyterian
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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From the article: So why, in the end, did Christ Covenant reject the Stokes' application to be Scout leaders? Because they're Mormons. And, therefore, not real Christians, church officials told the couple last month.

Before anybody gets their special protective underwear in a wad, the article also cites the Boy Scouts saying the church was within its rights as a chartering organization and turnabout wonderment on this is fair play...IOW do the Mormon chartered Boy Scouts organizations allow non-Mormons to be leaders? (Maybe somebody out there knows)

The journalist did a good job in bringing out both of those issues:

From the article: Nationally, the Mormon church has a close relationship with the Boy Scouts of America. What is the Mormon church's rules about appointing Scout leaders? Mormon Bishop Rowlan, who heads the Stokes' Weddington church, would not say whether he would be open to naming a non-Mormon as a Scouting leader."I'd have to take each one on an individual basis," he said, adding that that is the policy of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

From the article: Turner, executive director of Mecklenburg's Boy Scouts Council, said Christ Covenant is within its rights as a chartering organization to apply additional leadership qualifications, as long as it also honors those the Boy Scouts insist on. Some of the Boy Scouts' national guidelines have also been controversial and, to some, discriminatory. Because the Boy Scout pledge includes fealty to God and country, no atheists and agnostics can be members or leaders. Neither can homosexuals

So, just as a church wants a theist (vs. an atheist) leader. I would think they could insist upon a theist leader vs. a Mormon polytheist leader. (True Believing Mormons are polytheists...they believe many gods exist...they even have a hymn to a "Mom god" in heaven...and they believe they will become a god, adding to the universal god population). I guess the Q is: Do we really want polytheist Boy Scout leaders who don't know the Ultimate God?

1 posted on 10/19/2010 8:21:29 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian

in the council I worked in, LDS is very strong. I find this strange.


2 posted on 10/19/2010 8:24:47 AM PDT by television is just wrong
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To: Colofornian

Lets see...Mormons can be US Marines. Airborne. Business leaders. Politicians. But no, not Boy Scout leaders. Seems plausible./s


3 posted on 10/19/2010 8:25:16 AM PDT by donozark (It's hard to afford a psychiatrist when you work at a gas station.)
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To: Colofornian

But isn’t the Boy Scouts a secular organization? I know they talk about the importance of “reverence” and being “morally straight”. I thought that the Scouts encouraged religious faith, meaning you should be active in whatever your faith happens to be, not that the Scouts expect someone to be of a certain religion.


4 posted on 10/19/2010 8:25:58 AM PDT by Dilbert San Diego
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To: All
From the article: "Boy Scouts is a ministry of our church," said Sylvia, the church's pastor for Christian Education and Young Families. "We want to insure that what Scout leaders) believe is consistent with our denominational viewpoint." For Sylvia, that at least means that Scout leaders must believe in the Apostles' Creed - a profession of faith dating back to the early centuries of Christianity.

How ironic. Here, when you read the Apostles Creed from Mormon eyes, there really isn't anything objectionable in that creed from a Mormon perspective. (As long as people understand that the word "catholic" in that creed doesn't mean "Roman Catholic" -- as "Catholic" simply means "universal.") What that would mean is, that if any Protestant church only had that as the hoop to jump over, any Mormon could really say they believe, remain true to their beliefs, and then the Protestant church would need to pinpoint differences of belief beyond that creed.

Except for one thing. By a Mormon saying they agree to the Apostles Creed, they actually would simultaneously call Joseph Smith a false prophet. How does that happen? Well, in the very first "vision" Smith had of two unnamed "personages" who appeared to him, he say one of them told him ALL (as in 100%) of the creeds of the Christian sects were an "abomination" to him. There's the Nicene Creed. The Apostles Creed. The Athanasian Creed. Those are the three creeds. And the Apostles Creed is the one of the three that Mormons should have no objection to. Yet Smith said it's an "abomination;" even though I cannot find anything in it that a Mormon would find abominable!

That means either that: (a) These personages hadn't read the Apostles Creed and didn't know what was in it [does that sound like a god or Jesus appearing ?]
(b) These "personages" who were unidentified by Smith in the Pearl of Great Price weren't divine at all. I mean come one, who would really say that 100% of Christianity's creeds were offensive to them -- other than demonic beings themselves who were masquerading as angels?

5 posted on 10/19/2010 8:26:42 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian
So, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is not Christian?

OooooooKAY!

6 posted on 10/19/2010 8:26:52 AM PDT by null and void (We are now in day 636 of our national holiday from reality. - 0bama really isn't one of US.)
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To: All
From the article: So why, in the end, did Christ Covenant reject the Stokes' application to be Scout leaders? Because they're Mormons. And, therefore, not real Christians, church officials told the couple last month.The Rev. Gabe Sylvia, Christ Covenant's staff liaison to the Scouting program, confirmed the Stokes' account. He called them to apologize but defends the church's decision."Based on a once-over, informal scan, it looked like the Stokes would be good additions to our leadership," he said. "But when it became clear that they were Mormons, they could not become leaders in our pack. Mormonism is not consistent with historical Christianity." That view - that Mormons are not Christians - is shared by other Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox Christian churches. Mormons, though, do call themselves Christians.

Indeed. Mormonism is a cult. Good for these Presbyterians for standing up. And, oh, yet another irony: Here, Joseph Smith in his first vision (which Mormons have now made into "scripture"), specifically singled out the Presbyterians and claimed: "I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true." (Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith History, v. 20) So the irony here is that Smith labeled Presbyterianism as false 175 years ago...and we're not supposed to have a hue and cry or offense over that!!! But if the reverse happens, and if Presbyterians label Mormonism as untrue (and unlike Mormons, doesn't call it "Scripture,"), offense is taken by this family and by the Mormon bishop in this story...and I'm sure by many other Mormons! (Can you spell "two-face?")

7 posted on 10/19/2010 8:27:35 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: All
From the article: Bishop Steven Rowlan of the LDS ward, or parish, which the Stokes attend in Weddington, acknowledged that Mormon theology diverges from some beliefs shared by most Protestants, Catholics and Orthodox Christians. But he insisted members of the LDS church are as Christian as the members of Christ Covenant. "Yes, there are distinct differences," he said. "But not with respect to being a Christian. We definitely and truly are Christians in every sense of the word." Not true, say Catholic, Protestant and Orthodox churches. They point to the LDS church's extra-biblical scriptures (Mormons abide by the Bible and the Book of Mormon). Mormons also reject the professions of faith, or Christian creeds, that are recited on Sundays in many Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant churches.

Oh, the ironies never seem to stop in this story: Here supposedly the Mormon bishop "insisted members of the LDS church are as Christian as the members of Christ Covenant." Yet, if you read official Mormon doctrine as to how they regard Presbyterians, they are untrue per Joseph Smith's first vision (v. 20 of Joseph Smith History). And all Christians are "apostates," says Mormon doctrines. That would mean that what this bishop is really saying is that members of the LDS churach are as "apostate" as members of Christian churches...if you take Mormon doctrine as true, that is!!!

Hey, having pictures of a person whom Lds apostles have said is a "saved being" in your living room doesn't make you a Christian. Trusting in Jesus Christ alone for your salvation is what is key. And as long as Mormons hold to verses from the Book of Mormon like 2 Nephi 25:23: "ye are saved by grace AFTER ALL YOU CAN DO, then trust is falling upon Jesus Christ alone for salvation...trust is a self-trust based on "ALL YOU CAN DO."

8 posted on 10/19/2010 8:28:33 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: Colofornian
It sounds like the Christ Covenant Church is unfamiliar
with and does not practice Yah'shua's lovingkindness.
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach

9 posted on 10/19/2010 8:30:03 AM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: Dilbert San Diego
But isn’t the Boy Scouts a secular organization?

No, to be a leader you have to believe in God. Atheists are not allowed.

And they charter it often through private organizations like churches.

How many Mormon churches allow non-Mormons to be leaders in the Boy Scout chartered groups they run?

10 posted on 10/19/2010 8:30:28 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: UriĀ’el-2012
Have you asked yourself if most or all Mormon chartered groups @ Mormon churches allow non-Mormon Boy Scout leaders?

And if most or all of them do not, will we hear your same accusation of the Mormon church?

(Just checkin' your face...whether it's one side or two)

11 posted on 10/19/2010 8:34:34 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: donozark

Shocking as it may seem, they’re even allowed to use the same drinking fountains we use. LOL


12 posted on 10/19/2010 8:35:29 AM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin! (look it up))
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To: Colofornian

I had a similar experience with a PCA congregation. I started a homeschool group that outgrew the place where we were meeting so one of the members of the group asked her PCA church if we could meet there. They agreed as long as the group adopted a statement of faith and PCA leadership.
I said NO thanks. Why would I have put years into this group to be told neither I not my child would be welcome?
BTW, I’m not Mormon, I’m Anglican!


13 posted on 10/19/2010 8:35:47 AM PDT by kalee (The offences we give, we write in the dust; Those we take, we engrave in marble. J Huett 1658)
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To: donozark

Can’t be Scout leaders for a specific Christian Church.

Do you think there would be any members of say a Church of Christ Congregation being leaders of a Boy Scout troupe that was formed and maintained by the lds ?

Not Likely.


14 posted on 10/19/2010 8:36:50 AM PDT by Bidimus1
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To: donozark

to sheep, other sheep are different.


15 posted on 10/19/2010 8:38:09 AM PDT by donmeaker ("Get off my lawn." Clint Eastwood, Green Ford Torino)
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To: Colofornian
At one time some years ago, I spent a week staying at the home of and caring for the 4 children of someone I worked with, who happened to be Mormon. Several of the family's “friends” and those who went to their “church” called or stopped by. All of them made some comments or questions as to whether I was Mormon, why would they allow a non-Mormon the stay with their kids, how did I know the family, etc. It was clear to me that they did not consider me “good enough” to be taking care of the children and household of this couple.

If Christ Covenant church requires that scouts groups be lead by real Christians, it would seem to be their prerogative to make that stipulation.

16 posted on 10/19/2010 8:39:09 AM PDT by NEMDF
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To: null and void
I call myself a Neurosurgeon...

Can I cut into your brain based on my word?

17 posted on 10/19/2010 8:39:37 AM PDT by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: UriĀ’el-2012
"It sounds like the Christ Covenant Church is unfamiliar with and does not practice Yah'shua's lovingkindness."

No one has a right to be a soutmaster and this church wasn't turning anyone away from being a scout. Paul set qualifications for Church leaders. This Church established the scouting program as part of its Church ministry and reasonable qualifications for its leaders is perfectly biblical.

18 posted on 10/19/2010 8:40:56 AM PDT by circlecity
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To: Colofornian
We a had a similar problem with a Local Catholic Church. You had to be Catholic to lead scouts in that Cub Pack.

How many Mormon churches allow non-Mormons to be leaders in the Boy Scout chartered groups they run?

None around here. The LDS Scouting program is a little different.

Fortunately there are plenty of Packs around so we just went to a different one.

19 posted on 10/19/2010 8:43:03 AM PDT by DYngbld (I have read the back of the Book and we WIN!!!!)
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To: Colofornian
"I have a picture of Jesus in my living room."

Doesn't that just settle the whole question?

By the way, I don't believe I have a picture of what people presume to be Jesus in my whole house. Am I unChristian? I think not! After all, Jesus lives here.

20 posted on 10/19/2010 8:44:52 AM PDT by Graybeard58 (Nobody reads tag lines.)
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To: Bidimus1

Article states LDS policy is “...on an individual basis.”


21 posted on 10/19/2010 8:44:52 AM PDT by donozark (It's hard to afford a psychiatrist when you work at a gas station.)
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To: Colofornian
Have you asked yourself if most or all Mormon chartered groups @ Mormon churches allow non-Mormon Boy Scout leaders?

And if most or all of them do not, will we hear your same accusation of the Mormon church?

(Just checkin' your face...whether it's one side or two)

I've been a Scout leader for over fifty years.

I have a Silver Beaver from Denver Area Council.

The Mormon Church uses the scout program as
an adjunct to it's program.
That is not the program of Baden-Powell.

And when a so-called "Christian" church does the same
they are neither running a Boy Scout program nor
a Christian program.

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
22 posted on 10/19/2010 8:48:07 AM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: Colofornian

breaking out the popcorn placemarker


23 posted on 10/19/2010 8:48:31 AM PDT by reaganaut (Ex Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: Colofornian

Free association is such a difficult concept for so many people.


24 posted on 10/19/2010 8:48:42 AM PDT by Pan_Yan
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To: ejonesie22

Only under ObamaCare...


25 posted on 10/19/2010 8:49:06 AM PDT by null and void (We are now in day 636 of our national holiday from reality. - 0bama really isn't one of US.)
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To: Colofornian

Most Mormon wards will allow non-lds scout leaders. My father (not lds) was my scout leader in an lds scout troop for many years. In my current ward, 2 of the leaders are not lds.


26 posted on 10/19/2010 8:50:32 AM PDT by my3centseuro
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To: donmeaker
to sheep, other sheep are different.

Probably the wisest post of the day.

27 posted on 10/19/2010 8:51:06 AM PDT by null and void (We are now in day 636 of our national holiday from reality. - 0bama really isn't one of US.)
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To: kalee

And before anyone thinks I’m blaming the PCA. I’m not. That was their policy, but I’m not PCA and I was free to look elsewhere for a meeting place which I did.


28 posted on 10/19/2010 8:53:07 AM PDT by kalee (The offences we give, we write in the dust; Those we take, we engrave in marble. J Huett 1658)
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To: Colofornian
"It was so offensive," said Jodi Stokes, who was raised Catholic, then became a Mormon. "I have a picture of Jesus in my living room."

And, she added, look at the formal name of their church: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

This just says it all. Mormons PLAY at being Christians, they think that they are Christians because they have a picture of Jesus and His name in their organization. They don't get that it isn't about appearances, it is about beliefs and their beliefs are an insult to Jesus Christ.

They are like 5 year olds playing 'house', they say the words, act out what they observe but don't really get it.

29 posted on 10/19/2010 8:53:55 AM PDT by reaganaut (Ex Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: Colofornian

This whole thing is wrong on several points. Let me preface by saying I am pro-scouting and pro-/Judeo-Christian. They both foster a positive spiritual and secular culture that this country is fast losing. However, I don’t find any scriptural command in the Bible that churches should be promoting organizations outside of the church itself. The churches should stick with their original mission. Although I am a total skeptic of the origins and doctrine of Mormonism, I have no doubt of their “Christian” morality and decency. To exclude them from scouting leadership is ridiculous and too divisive. Parents that are so concerned their kids might be influenced by the “wrong things” in public ought to be more proactive in first training them at home.


30 posted on 10/19/2010 8:54:23 AM PDT by TexasRepublic (Socialism is the gospel of envy and the religion of thieves)
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To: circlecity
U-2012>It sounds like the Christ Covenant Church is unfamiliar
with and does not practice Yah'shua's lovingkindness.

No one has a right to be a soutmaster and this church wasn't turning anyone away from being a scout. Paul set qualifications for Church leaders. This Church established the scouting program as part of its Church ministry and reasonable qualifications for its leaders is perfectly biblical.

YHvH and His salvation commanded
all of His called out ones to preach
the Good News to all the gentiles.
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
31 posted on 10/19/2010 8:54:39 AM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: donozark

Well not unless they start their own troops. Same with my parish. We have an official boy scout troop, and my own back in the day was ran by the Knights.


32 posted on 10/19/2010 8:55:01 AM PDT by BenKenobi
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To: Colofornian
Before anybody gets their special protective underwear in a wad....

ROTFL!

....the article also cites the Boy Scouts saying the church was within its rights as a chartering organization and turnabout wonderment on this is fair play....

This makes me wonder if some Mormons were encouraging disrespect of BSA chartering rules among other Mormons, by going to the press with this story.

33 posted on 10/19/2010 8:56:02 AM PDT by Alex Murphy ("Posting news feeds, making eyes bleed, he's hated on seven continents")
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To: null and void
Be careful what you ask for...

But to answer your initial query the LDS is to Christianity as Obama is to American Citizenship

34 posted on 10/19/2010 8:57:19 AM PDT by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: donozark

But it’s good news for a MSM that still can’t get over the fact that the Boy Scouts DARED stand their ground and not cower to the gay agenda.


35 posted on 10/19/2010 8:59:39 AM PDT by Red6 (IMHO)
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To: reaganaut

Many Christians as well, think THEY are Christian, merely because they have a picture of Jesus on their wall.


36 posted on 10/19/2010 8:59:50 AM PDT by donozark (It's hard to afford a psychiatrist when you work at a gas station.)
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To: UriĀ’el-2012

Allowing someone to be a scout leader is not the same as preaching the good news. Nothing here indicates this church doesn’t preach the good news to all the gentiles. To suggest otherwise would be to bear false witness.


37 posted on 10/19/2010 9:01:27 AM PDT by circlecity
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To: Colofornian

“What upset the Stokes family most was
the church questioning their Christianity.”

Ha!

Whether they should be “scout leaders” or not is
one issue.

Mormonism isn’t even close to Christianity.

Christians do not believe Christ was created.
Christians do not believe in multiple gods (infinite number)
Christians do not believe people become gods of their own planet.
Christians do not believe there is a “council of gods”
Christians do not believe in celestial sex to create spirit children
Christians do not believe there is a Heavenly Mother that breeds with Heavenly Father...

and that’s just for starters.

ampu


38 posted on 10/19/2010 9:03:55 AM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: ejonesie22
LDS is to Christianity as Obama is to American Citizenship

That is totally unfair. The American people are not completely unified in refuting Obama's citizenship.

39 posted on 10/19/2010 9:05:52 AM PDT by Pan_Yan
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To: Pan_Yan

Point taken.


40 posted on 10/19/2010 9:09:47 AM PDT by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: null and void

“So, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is not Christian?

OooooooKAY!”

That the name of Jesus Christ is used in the lds title means little, in fact it was not even always in the name used by j.smith and his co-religionists.

Church of Jesus Christ
Church of God
Church of the Latter Day Saints (1834)
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (1838)
Several variations and additions to the name have been used for legal purposes since.

Please note the 2 of the first 4 names of j.smith’s organization did not include the name of Jesus Christ
in direct contradiction of the claims made in j.smiths book of mormon in Nephi 26:21 at to what the church should be called.

There are many groups the use the name of Christ in there title and have no significant relationship with Christianity as shown in the New Testament

The Holy Spirit Association for the Unification of World Christianity (unifaction church - Sun Myung Moon.)

Peoples Temple Christian Church Full Gospel (later the Peoples Temple - Jim Jones)

Few if any people would consider either of the above groups to be Christian in content.

islam also profess to believe in Jesus as Nabi Isa but only as a prophet.

knowing that Jesus is, does not make a Christian see Acts 19:15


41 posted on 10/19/2010 9:12:51 AM PDT by Bidimus1
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To: ejonesie22

He’s a natchural born citizen, fully Constitutionally qualified to be president, doncha know?


42 posted on 10/19/2010 9:13:27 AM PDT by null and void (We are now in day 636 of our national holiday from reality. - 0bama really isn't one of US.)
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To: circlecity
Allowing someone to be a scout leader is not the same as preaching the good news. Nothing here indicates this church doesn’t preach the good news to all the gentiles. To suggest otherwise would be to bear false witness.

Francis of Assisi :
"Preach the gospel.
And if necessary,
use words."
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
43 posted on 10/19/2010 9:14:48 AM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 119:174 I long for Your salvation, YHvH, Your law is my delight.)
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To: Colofornian
First off, Mormons call themselves Christians but they will never say you are one too. If they wanted to be taken seriously they would say we are all Christians, Brothers and Sisters in Christ, etc. But where the real disconnect comes is that if you are not a member of the Mormon Church, you can't enter. So is it even possible for a Boy Scout group to be sponsored in a LDS church and have BSA's of other faiths as part of the pack? I somehow doubt it but please tell me if it does happen. Further, they are so doctrinally different from Protestant and Catholic faiths, it would be hard to communicate with them on spiritual issues as we are from wholly different doctrines. We don't believe you can compete with a God that shall have no others before him. They believe you can become one of many gods. We believe there is but one Savior, Jesus Christ. They believe there are two and your faith in both is required. Joseph Smith will examine your passport and determine if your are worthy to enter heaven or kolob I forget. This despite God telling us there is none worthy, no not one and no man cometh to the father but by me(Jesus) I could go on and on but there is no parity of Christianity with Mormonism and they make it clear. They do not say "We are Christians too!" They will say "We are Christians". See the difference? It's subtle but there it is. Oh, and I was ready to defend this Mormon family right up until I read the "We are Christians" and "I have a picture of Jesus in my living room". Still left out the part "We are Christians too" or "Like you, we are Christians", etc. In fact, so we are clear, they are clear in their description of Christianity and they most decidedly NOT on the same team:

"What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world"
- Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr., Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 270

"...all the priests who adhere to the sectarian religions of the day with all their followers, without one exception, receive their portion with the devil and his angels."
- Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr. , The Elders Journal, v. 1, no. 4, p. 60

"With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world."
- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 8, p.

"Christians—those poor, miserable priests brother Brigham was speaking about—some of them are the biggest whoremasters there are on the earth, and at the same time preaching righteousness to the children of men. The poor devils, they could not get up here and preach an oral discourse, to save themselves from hell; they are preaching their fathers' sermons —preaching sermons that were written a hundred years before they were born. ...You may get a Methodist priest to pour water on you, or sprinkle it on you, and baptize you face foremost, or lay you down the other way, and whatever mode you please, and you will be damned with your priest.
- Apostle Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, v. 5, p. 89

"What! Are Christians ignorant? Yes, as ignorant of the things of God as the brute beast."
- Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, v. 13, p. 225

"Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the ‘whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent."
- Apostle Orson Pratt, The Seer, p. 255

"After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon."
- Apostle George Q. Cannon, Gospel Truth, p. 324

Believers in the doctrines of modern Christendom will reap damnation to their souls.”
- Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, see pp. 45-46

"I was answered that I must join none of them (Christian Churches), for they were all wrong...that all their creeds were an abomination in His sight" (Joseph Smith History 1:19).

"...orthodox Christian views of God are Pagan rather than Christian." (Mormon Doctrine of Deity by B.H. Roberts, p.116)


44 posted on 10/19/2010 9:18:50 AM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.)
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To: donozark

True it does.

Meaning they maintain the right to allow or not allow people of a differing faith to be to be scout leaders in lds sponsored groups just as the group that is the subject of the article did.


45 posted on 10/19/2010 9:18:58 AM PDT by Bidimus1
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To: Dilbert San Diego

It was the Church’s decision, not the Boy Scouts.


46 posted on 10/19/2010 9:21:08 AM PDT by taxcontrol
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To: null and void; Colofornian

Putting the name Jesus Christ in the name of your organization doesn’t make you a Christian any more than putting ‘auto repairs’ on the side of your garage makes you an auto mechanic.


47 posted on 10/19/2010 9:21:35 AM PDT by reaganaut (Ex Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: Colofornian
So that no one is confused BSA is not a strictly Christian organization nor are they anti Mormon. But the charter organizations of each troop have the final say in who they chose as leaders.


48 posted on 10/19/2010 9:22:52 AM PDT by Pan_Yan
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To: UriĀ’el-2012; Colofornian

It sounds like the Christ Covenant Church is unfamiliar
with and does not practice Yah’shua’s lovingkindness.

- - - - - - -
And how is that, exactly?


49 posted on 10/19/2010 9:23:41 AM PDT by reaganaut (Ex Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: UriĀ’el-2012
What does that have to do with being a leader in the scouts? You don't make a lik of sense.

Saul of Tarsus:

"but avoid irreverent babble, for it will leade people into more and more ungodliness"

50 posted on 10/19/2010 9:23:49 AM PDT by circlecity
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