Posted on 10/22/2010 2:42:31 AM PDT by Gamecock
CHARLOTTE, N.C. — In shopping around for a Cub Scout program for their two sons, ages 6 and 8, Jeremy and Jodi Stokes decided on the one at Christ Covenant Church in Matthews, N.C.
The Stokeses, also of Matthews, weren't members of the evangelical megachurch, but they had many friends who were. And unlike the Cub Scout pack at their own church, which doesn't have a program for 6-year-old Tiger Scouts, Christ Covenant's was big enough to accommodate both of their boys.
The couple even signed up to be Scout leaders when they discovered the church needed adult help. And when the Scouting officials at Christ Covenant found out Jeremy Stokes was an Eagle Scout, they were thrilled.
So why did Christ Covenant reject the Stokeses' application to be Scout leaders?
Because they're Mormons. And, therefore, not real Christians, church officials told the couple.
"I can't believe they had the audacity to say, 'You can't be leaders, but we want your boys,' " Jodi Stokes said. "Are you kidding me?"
The Rev. Gabe Sylvia, Christ Covenant's staff liaison to the Scouting program, confirmed the Stokeses' account. He called them to apologize but defends the church's decision.
"When it became clear that they were Mormons, they could not become leaders in our pack. Mormonism is not consistent with historical Christianity," he said.
That view — that Mormons, whose church is formally titled the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, are not Christians — is shared by other Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox Christian churches, as well.
"It was so offensive," said Jodi Stokes, who was raised Catholic, then became a Mormon. "I have a picture of Jesus in my living room."
Members of the Salt Lake City-based church believe salvation is possible because of the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. But significant theological differences separate Mormons from most Christian churches.
The LDS church treats as holy scripture the Book of Mormon, which isn't recognized by other churches, but which it believes was divinely revealed to Joseph Smith in the 1820s.
Mormons also disavow belief in the core Christian doctrine of the Trinity — that the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one — instead believing the three to be individuals united in a single purpose.
Mormons believe the original Christian church vanished 100 years after Jesus' death and resurrection. The authentic church, they believe, was restored by Smith.
Same goes for the statue in my living room of the woman referred to in the Gospes as “highly favored”, “full of grace, and of whom the Gospel says all generations shall call blessed: the blessed virgin Mary, the mother of my Lord, who Jesus always honored in accord with the Ten Commandments.
The LDS Church is the best example of proper and effective use of the program, and their youth involvement is especially strong. Witness how many of their missionaries are former scouts, and Eagle Scouts at that.
I wished they had told us what kind of camera they used.
Q. 109. What are the sins forbidden in the second commandment?
A. The sins forbidden in the second commandment are, all devising, counselling, commanding, using, and anywise approving, any religious worship not instituted by God himself; tolerating a false religion; the making any representation of God, of all or of any of the three persons, either inwardly in our mind, or outwardly in any kind of image or likeness of any creature whatsoever; all worshipping of it, or God in it or by it; the making of any representation of feigned deities, and all worship of them, or service belonging to them, all superstitious devices, corrupting the worship of God, adding to it, or taking from it, whether invented and taken up of ourselves, or received by tradition from others, though under the title of antiquity, custom, devotion, good intent, or any other pretence whatsoever; simony; sacrilege; all neglect, contempt, hindering, and opposing the worship and ordinances which God hath appointed.
“It was so offensive to say I was not a comedian,” rwfromkansas said. “I have an autographed picture of Jeff Foxworthy.”
But then I might be wrong too.
I believe the Charlotte Observer broke this story with their Oct. 19 article. In that article the journalist mentions Mark Turner, executive director of Mecklenburg's Boy Scouts Council. According to that journalist, Turner "said Christ Covenant is within its rights as a chartering organization to apply additional leadership qualifications, as long as it also honors those the Boy Scouts insist on."
I would say that this Church believes that its Cub Scout leaders should believe in one God. The God. That's what the Boy Scouts focus on as a key standard.
Mormons? They believe in many gods:
They believe a "heavenly father" exists named Elohim.
They believe a separate god known both as Jehovah and Jesus Christ exists.
They believe a third god exists, the Holy Ghost.
Their hymnal contains a hymn singing to a fourth god, a "mother" god who is the "wife" of Elohim.
Their writings reference a "council of gods" and Joseph Smith said the "head god" appointed Elohim for this world. (How many are in that council? Who knows)
And then they believe millions more have become gods or will become gods.
That's hardly adhering to the Solo God standard!!!
I guess I was wrong. :-)
Right, because six year olds ask what bumper stickers mean on campouts.
When I was in, I know our sponsoring church had zero impact on who our leaders were. Maybe there is a rule in the official BSA charter that chartering organizations can do whatever they want, but I have not seen it. All I have seen is a local guy say that it is in the rules, without showing the rule or quoting it.
As for this church, even if they are allowed to decide on who is a leader, this move makes them look like cowards. To me, it makes them look like they are afraid of anyone who doesn’t toe the line in their doctrine.
“I would say that this Church believes that its Cub Scout leaders should believe in one God. The God. That’s what the Boy Scouts focus on as a key standard.”
From the article:
For Sylvia, that at least means that Scout leaders must believe in the Apostles’ Creed - a profession of faith dating back to the early centuries of Christianity.
Stelle Snyder, the spokeswoman for Christ Covenant, said it could even extend beyond that. A decade ago, she said, the church had to say no to a Catholic dad who wanted to coach one of the church’s sports teams. Catholics, she said, often stress good works as the road to salvation more than many Protestants, who emphasize grace. And she said it’s part of the role of coaches in her church’s sports outreach program to share Bible stories.
So it’s not just based on one’s understanding of the Christian God/creed. No Catholics Christians or Lds, which is fine. A church has a right to choose who they want to be leading their youth I reckon.
Freegards
Not likely. But an 8 yo might.
IN general, the cub scouts and boy scouts require that the leaders be religious, but not that the leaders be of a particular religion.
I guess they allow chartering organizations to discriminate further, although I would guess they would frown on a church requiring leaders all be of the same denomination. Whether they would allow christian churches to refuse to allow a jewish scout leader, I can’t say — but they are pretty sensitive to the charge of discrimination.
So if a church has sports teams for children, and choose members over non-members to be coaches, they are "cowards?"
Yes, they can. The sponsoring group/church has a lot of leeway in the determination of critieria for leadership in their troop.
Even the BSA national agrees that the decision is theirs.
The LDS exercise this right all the time, on the West coast to Zion (Utah) it is extremely rare if not unheard of to have non-LDS leadership in an LDS troop.
Sorry, I missed where we were supposed to wear our religious affiliation marks on our sleeves.
For the record, this is my denomination, as my church is also in the PCA. It is also the denomination I have chosen as being closest to what I believe scriptures teach, so I am not PCA by accident.
Does that help “clarify” the conversation?
I should note that some PCA churches believe that having a picture of Jesus is a violation of the 2nd commandment, that thou shalt not have a graven image.
My church does not allow sunday school material that includes pictures of Jesus, and they discouraged people from going to movies that depict Jesus, such as the Passion of the Christ. (My church is PCA).
This is just plain silly. Mormons are among the best family oriented folk I have every known. Perfect for scout leaders. Pfffffft!
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Fine and they can be scout leaders in an LDS troop. That still doesn’t make them Christians.
Your response mad me laugh.
Sorry. My points were clear. I don’t like organized religion - - of any flavor. I agree with no religious club. I attend no church, or whatever you want to call it.
I firmly believe in God. I also firmly believe that the evil one encourages religious secularism, animosity, hatred, ridicule and war. Just like politics, there’s money involved; so, the leaders must keep their followers as followers.
If you want the REAL answer about today’s organized religions, look at egos, finances, and this belief in the spiritual good-old-boy networking. To clarify that remark: the belief in continual forgiveness makes no sense to me; we were given commandments, not suggestions.
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BWWWWHHHHHAAAAA!!!
Look at the LDS church, perfect description,their egos, finances, and the good old boy network. Not to mention the ‘continual forgiveness’.
Afa your comment if one religion is a cult all of them are, depends upon your definition of ‘cult’. There are three. All religions are ‘cults’ only using the Anthropological definition.
Mormonism is also a cult using the sociological definition (high control group) and theological definition (outside traditional Christian belief while claiming to be Christian). The latter two do not apply to over 90% of religions.
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