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Church rejects Mormon couple as Cub leaders
NewJersey.com ^ | Thursday, October 21, 2010

Posted on 10/22/2010 2:42:31 AM PDT by Gamecock

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To: Colofornian

It’s “We only worship one god, there is just a lot of them.”


101 posted on 10/22/2010 12:06:45 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: reaganaut

repeat: I firmly believe in God. I also firmly believe that the evil one encourages religious secularism, animosity, hatred, ridicule and war. Just like politics, there’s money involved; so, the leaders must keep their followers as followers.


102 posted on 10/22/2010 12:11:57 PM PDT by Loud Mime (Intolerant of Intolerance)
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To: Paragon Defender

Epic Fail, PD.

Mormonism has nothing in common with historical Christianity and in fact counters it.


103 posted on 10/22/2010 12:16:25 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: Colofornian; Paragon Defender; ejonesie22; All
"Does this sound like historical Christianity?"

Of course to a mormon it 'sounds' like historica Christianity because they've been spoonfed it from their 'living' prophets and extra biblical revelations from day one. Follow the prophet and check your brain at the door. Of course the book of mormon is true - even though we don't have a clue as to where they actually 'LIVED' during those times. Sure the prophet is a 'true' prophet, even though his prophecies don't come to pass or conflict with the prophecy of a previous prophet. And the only 'real' way to translate a document is to look at a smooth stone while stuffing your head into a hat.

104 posted on 10/22/2010 12:18:21 PM PDT by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: Paragon Defender; dixjea; Gamecock; colorcountry; reaganaut; greyfoxx39; Colofornian; Elsie
False. Generally what is cut and pasted by the Anti-Mormon gang is misrepresentations and straw man arguments.

Wow, I think I've posted about 50 times to you regarding stuff you've said on this forum and this is the first time I can remember that you ever responded to anything I've posted here.

No, Paragon, the fact is that what us ex-Mormons post here is the stuff we were taught in the LDS Church. You know, like the stuff about God being a man on another planet in a previous mortal existence and that if we were good little Mormons that someday we would be gods too.

Someday you'll be an ex-Mormon too.

I just pray it happens before you stand before God at the Judgment and he personally explains to you that if you thought you could become a God by your good works, that you will have an eternity in Hell think twice about that demonic doctrine.

Actually most of us ex-Mormons are not "Anti-Mormons" since we only want Mormons (for most of us that includes our own family members) to be saved and to go to heaven and we know that most of them are on the fast track to Hell. Believing you will someday earn the position of God is a sure fire way to end up in Hell.

105 posted on 10/22/2010 12:18:59 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: dixjea

One of the principle arguments against Christianity is how a perfect writing, the Bible, is used to create so many cults. It it were perfect and defined, only one religion would spring from its pages.

But it has fostered many religions; the cult members trash each other, claim superiority over other cults, and then claim the high ground is theirs after waging such poor behavior. They do not set a good example for those who seek spiritual guidance. It is like our political system!


106 posted on 10/22/2010 12:19:12 PM PDT by Loud Mime (Intolerant of Intolerance)
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To: reaganaut; Pan_Yans Wife

107 posted on 10/22/2010 12:23:09 PM PDT by Pan_Yan
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To: Loud Mime

I agree, which is why I oppose the LDS whitewashing of history and doctrine.

The vast majority of Christian denominations don’t do that.


108 posted on 10/22/2010 12:50:34 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: Elsie
Things is NEVER slow out here on the front lines!!!

Photobucket

They aren't even slow on the far, FAR front lines!

109 posted on 10/22/2010 12:57:06 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Pray for Obama. Psalm 109:8)
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To: P-Marlowe

Amen, P!!


110 posted on 10/22/2010 1:01:10 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: Pan_Yan

Thank you, Pan Yan!


111 posted on 10/22/2010 1:03:33 PM PDT by reaganaut (Ex Mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: Utah Binger
Oh, MY! No wonder I have inherited high cholesterol and triglycerides...my Danish ancestors were eating THAT? “One pound pork liver, one pound pork LARD!”
112 posted on 10/22/2010 1:03:49 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Pray for Obama. Psalm 109:8)
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To: greyfoxx39; Elsie

Come on down. I’ll make a Danish feast like you’ve never had before. I use butter instead of lard however.

I’ll try to get a young goat shank so Elsie will feel at home.


113 posted on 10/22/2010 1:10:55 PM PDT by Utah Binger (Mount Carmel Utah, at the Maynard Dixon Living History Museum)
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To: Paragon Defender
There’s an anti-Mormon group of people here that spends a great deal of their time attacking the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. They post regurgitated propaganda on an almost daily basis. They have an obsession. You can witness many different tactics employed that you might find quite interesting. The strawman argument is a big favorite and is frequently preceded by cherry-picked quotes or other material. After the “quotation” the attacker will misrepresent what has been said or what was meant and then attack their own interpretation.

Paragon Defender Maxims:

"The way to highlight the straw man is to embody him!"

"Make the posters the issue, not the issues."

Link

As of December 31, 2009, there were 51,736 LDS missionaries serving in 344 church missions throughout the world. Their work, often in cooperation with local members, resulted in 280,106 convert baptisms in 2009.[12] Author David Stewart points out that the number of convert baptisms per missionary per year has fallen from a high of 8.03 in 1989 to just 4.67 in 2005.[13] He argues that the number of converts would increase if Mormon missionaries made greater efforts in meeting new people; he points out that the average companionship spends only four or five hours per week attempting to meet new people.[13]

How terrible it is that a handful of Christians post a handful of threads per week on FreeRepublic to counter the proselytizing efforts of the missionaries and public relations campaign of the mormon church. Don't you just feel SO sorry that the poor, persecuted mormons aren't able to have their message heard?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJqhFm2Zpck

persecuted

114 posted on 10/22/2010 1:13:33 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Pray for Obama. Psalm 109:8)
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To: ejonesie22
>>How does one “cut and paste” a straw man argument?<< If you disagree with a Mormon it’s automatically cut and past strawman. You don’t even have to keep notes! 
115 posted on 10/22/2010 1:15:16 PM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: Paragon Defender

>>Sorry but Mormonism IS historical Christianity restored.<<

So Jesus originally said that he was Lucifer’s brother? The Bible tells us that Lucifer was originally a good angel that rebelled and was cast out and that Jesus was “the Word, and the Word was God, and the Word was with God”. Sounds very different from Mormon to me.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


116 posted on 10/22/2010 1:23:39 PM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: Ripliancum; P-Marlowe; Colofornian
OK then. Presbyterians voted to allow gay clergy, but booted the Mormon cub leaders.

I suggest you get your facts straight. As pointed out, this is the Presbyterian Church in America, which does not condone homosexuality in any way, shape or form.

Interestingly the liberal PC(USA), tho ones who are more "open minded" probably would not hesitate allowing cultists like the LDS be scout leaders.

117 posted on 10/22/2010 1:26:09 PM PDT by Gamecock ( Christianity is not the movement from vice to virtue, but from virtue to Grace.)
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To: 9YearLurker
Islam celebrates Jesus Christ as a prophet, too.

Let's let them be Scout leaders! (If Mormons expect consistency that is.)

118 posted on 10/22/2010 1:27:47 PM PDT by Gamecock ( Christianity is not the movement from vice to virtue, but from virtue to Grace.)
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To: P-Marlowe

>>Believing you will someday earn the position of God is a sure fire way to end up in Hell.<<

That is after all what got Lucifer in trouble.


119 posted on 10/22/2010 1:29:07 PM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: GSWarrior
Can't this couple find another troop that doesn't give the finger to Mormons?

If they want a troop that allows mormons to be leaders, I'm sure they can do that.

BUT I am sure the mormons would be warmly welcomed to participate in the life of that church, up to the point where they would want to partake in the Lord's Supper, teach, or be the husband be installed in an office.

120 posted on 10/22/2010 1:35:57 PM PDT by Gamecock ( Christianity is not the movement from vice to virtue, but from virtue to Grace.)
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To: Paragon Defender; All
Anyone new to the genealogical zoo,

If you peruse Family Search Centers sponsored by the Mormon church, or various online Web sites, you will notice a pattern. There’s Mormon groups of people here that spend an inordinate amount of their time seeking their dead ancestors -- and yours. They go through the same regurgitated electronic and paper record shuffle daily.

To say they have a misguided obsession just doesn't aptly explain it. I mean, imagine you're part of a group that has less than 10 million active members worldwide...and only a few million that claim active access to your inner sanctum temple. And then, I as your "prophet" tell you that you only have to come up with the names and birth and death records of the billions of people who've ever lived...including pre-Gutenberg times (pre-1456).

And then you have to go into the temple and perform "works" on their behalf that will supposedly "save" them...and often it might involve your teen-age son being part of the process in acting as a "proxy."

You can witness many different tactics employed by Mormons seeking their dead that you might find quite interesting. The straw man proxy baptism is a big favorite (it's a "straw man" because there's really no unbaptized person there in that temple!!!) and is frequently preceded by cherry-picking records from other church denominations and has even included baptizing Jews from concentration camp lists!

Another temple favorite is for Mormons to "marry off" dead spirits in these temples using genealogical information, often times totally bogus historical information! ! (It's true)

Let me provide you with three examples as to how Mormons have "appended...[the] life history" of numerous individuals, including Jesus Christ, a Roman Catholic priest, and even a Mormon fundamentalist murderer!:

Did you know that these Mormon tactics include "sealing" records (rituals performed in the Mormon temple) -- that:
(a) Jesus is now "married"/sealed to Mary Magdalene, per our zealous Mormon match-makers?
(b) And Father Damien, a RC priest, was also posthumously "sealed" so that he, too, is now "married"
(c) And a fundamentalist Mormon killer who was divorced was posthumously "re-married" to his ex-spouse.

Documentation for all of these Mormon "religious" acts follow @ the end of this post, if you care to take the time to read them.

Prior to the dedication of the San Diego Mormon temple in 1993, local Mormon families were even "given a packet entitled Family Temple Preparation Material. Included in this written material were about seven pages devoted to "true stories" of temple patrons who were visited by the dead. They see dead people?

The Mormon church even includes accounts of supposed dead spirits visiting their leaders in their Sunday School lessons! Source: pp. 1-2 of LDS Sunday School Lesson

Sometimes they cruise the cemeteries of the dead seeking any fingernail remnant of informational DNA from the dead that could eventually be twisted into how, "Look, we've baptized more dead people who will accept the Mormon 'gospel' and become Mormons in the spirit world." Any record morsel will be devoured; just watch the progression of "genealogical research" that's unfolding in the Mormon church and see what I mean.

After looking over the "PR" side of how the Mormon church is presenting information about their genealogical work, I invite you to new threads coming within the next several days to a week -- a continuation of a series I call the Other- World Series -- which, coupled with Halloween, will shriek your socks off re: the Mormon relationship with the dead and the occult. (They see dead people? linked above was one of those articles already posted this month)

****************

Documentation of Claims A/B/C above:

From article documenting (a) above: On May 27, 2010, “Maria Magdelena” was listed in New FamilySearch with her birth date as “1504 Israel,” and death date as “before 1540 Israel.” Both years are likely inventions. Along with “spouse” “Jesus Cristian,” “Maria Magdelena” was baptized and confirmed a member of the LDS Church by proxy on April 8, 2010 in the “Salt Lake City Utah Temple.” She was subjected to initiatory temple ordinances on April 8, 2010; an endowment ceremony on April 9, 2010; and the marriage “sealing” to “Jesus Cristian” on April 9, 2010—all rites were done in the “Salt Lake City Utah Temple.” Mary Magdalene is described in the New Testament as a faithful follower of Jesus. Because the concept of marriage is strongly emphasized in LDS teachings, the notion that a spousal relationship existed between Jesus and Mary Magdalene is common among Mormons—although that belief is not formal LDS doctrine. There is no reliable historical evidence to indicate that Jesus was married—to Mary Magdalene, or anyone else. Source: Jesus Christ was baptized and “sealed” to Mary Magdalene

From column documenting (b) above: "It's blatantly wrong to seal a person who took a vow of celibacy as a Catholic priest and is so revered in his Catholic religion," said Radkey, a former Catholic. Source: Helen Radkey and Salt Lake Tribune strike again

Why is the Lds church playing "matchmaker" post-death with single RC priests? Answer: Lds say single people are shut out of the highest degree of glory in heaven. Therefore, if Father Damien was going to get there, they had to find a way to marry him off -- in the nether world!

This whole religious shenanigans brought this out in a Yahoo Question: Mormons "marry" dead Catholic priest posthumously to a woman he likely never was married to in life. Why?

This whole enterprise is a literal Mormon marriage machine for dead spirits...

From the article documenting (c) above: The LDS Church has disowned Mormon fundamentalists. In sharp contradiction, the LDS temple system systematically validates the plural marriages of dead ex-Mormon polygamists through its marriage sealing rituals. An example of many such individuals is Rulon Clark Allred, who was excommunicated from the LDS Church in 1940 for practicing polygamy...As though killers will share an eternal reward with their victims, Ervil Morrell LeBaron — the Mormon fundamentalist behind the death of Rulon Allred — was sealed by proxy in 2002 to Delfina Salido, from whom he was divorced. Source: Mormon Church Quietly Endorses Polygamous (Afterlife) Marriages of Excommunicated Fundamentalists

We need to understand that Mormons clarify their belief that marriages are forever by saying that applies only to those who reach the highest degree of glory. So Mormons believe murderers need proxy eternal marriage sealings 'cause they represent the highest degree of works-righteousness folks?

121 posted on 10/22/2010 1:38:57 PM PDT by Colofornian
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To: greyfoxx39
"Make the posters the issue, not the issues."

Truer words were never spoken. You do good work. Me? I cook. I just had fifteen artists for dinner last night. Danish frikadeller and red cabbage, scalloped potatoes and roast beef with Danish fried onions. A nice fresh strawberry topping for poppy seed cake.

The leader of the workshop donated the painting shown above to the foundation. He and the group were painting down on the edge of the Vermillion Cliffs near Lee's Ferry at the same place where dear wife fell and cracked her head open last month. She went along as well.

That artist has now officially left the religion. He doesn't do FR but he is extremely conservative.

122 posted on 10/22/2010 1:46:50 PM PDT by Utah Binger (Mount Carmel Utah, at the Maynard Dixon Living History Museum)
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To: ejonesie22

“They just can’t go in the temple to watch it.” <-— This is kind of my point...

Don’t piss and moan that Christians are bigots for not welcoming Mormons when the family of someone marrying into the church can’t go into the Temple...

That, my friend, is bigotry..


123 posted on 10/22/2010 1:49:58 PM PDT by N3WBI3 (Ah, arrogance and stupidity all in the same package. How efficient of you. -- Londo Mollari)
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To: N3WBI3

I know, check my posting, I am one of the famous Anti’s and a proud Flying Inman.

I was having a little fun.

Logical disconnect is LDS SOP.


124 posted on 10/22/2010 1:53:51 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: greyfoxx39; All

“Make the posters the issue, not the issues.”


You mean you all have come up with a valid issue?

Never seen it. Not once.


125 posted on 10/22/2010 3:36:02 PM PDT by Paragon Defender
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To: ejonesie22

That is how one cut and pastes a document or other text.

How does one cut and paste an active argument?

Or are you just tossing philosophical terms out without any clue on how to properly use them in a sentence hoping it will make you sound intellectual enough that some poor schlep will buy your defective wares?


Looks like its over your head. So sorry.


126 posted on 10/22/2010 3:38:19 PM PDT by Paragon Defender
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To: Paragon Defender
Um someone who doesn't understand you can't cut and paste an active argument, thinks he will one day become a god and thinks a book that tells us Native Americans were the descendants of the Israelites visited by Jesus himself is a Companion to the Bible is telling me something went over my head...

Yeah...

(rolling eyes...)

127 posted on 10/22/2010 3:52:40 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: Paragon Defender

Yea!!!

I just KNEW you’d show up with your big list of rabbit holes to run through!


128 posted on 10/22/2010 4:26:48 PM PDT by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Paragon Defender
Sorry but Mormonism IS historical Christianity restored.

Sorry; but the above is DISINFORMATION from Salt Lake City.

129 posted on 10/22/2010 4:27:45 PM PDT by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Paragon Defender
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cut,_copy,_and_paste

NOW that you know HOW to do it; can we EXPECT you to actually post some data, evidence, facts that would support your side of the argument; or will you continue to infer that there MIGHT be something relavant in the voluminous amounts of rhetoric that your links point to?

130 posted on 10/22/2010 4:30:16 PM PDT by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Godzilla; Tennessee Nana; P-Marlowe; SZonian; caww; greyfoxx39; aMorePerfectUnion
 

Delusions of adaquacy given out in the temple daily.

 
 
 
You ALMOST have it defined; but this comes a LOT closer!!
 



Narcissistic personality disorder is characterized by dramatic, emotional behavior, in the same category as antisocial and borderline personality disorders.

Narcissistic personality disorder symptoms may include:

* Believing that you’re better than others
* Fantasizing about power, success and attractiveness
* Exaggerating your achievements or talents
* Expecting constant praise and admiration
* Believing that you’re special and acting accordingly
* Failing to recognize other people’s emotions and feelings
* Expecting others to go along with your ideas and plans
* Taking advantage of others
* Expressing disdain for those you feel are inferior
* Being jealous of others
* Believing that others are jealous of you
* Trouble keeping healthy relationships
* Setting unrealistic goals
* Being easily hurt and rejected
* Having a fragile self-esteem
* Appearing as tough-minded or unemotional

Although some features of narcissistic personality disorder may seem like having confidence or strong self-esteem, it’s not the same. Narcissistic personality disorder crosses the border of healthy confidence and self-esteem into thinking so highly of yourself that you put yourself on a pedestal. In contrast, people who have healthy confidence and self-esteem don’t value themselves more than they value others.

When you have narcissistic personality disorder, you may come across as conceited, boastful or pretentious. You often monopolize conversations. You may belittle or look down on people you perceive as inferior. You may have a sense of entitlement. And when you don’t receive the special treatment to which you feel entitled, you may become very impatient or angry. You may insist on having “the best” of everything — the best car, athletic club, medical care or social circles, for instance.


131 posted on 10/22/2010 4:32:45 PM PDT by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: reaganaut
 
They haven’t thrown D&C132 under the bus.

It may have been 100 years, that doesn’t mean it still isn’t in your scriptures.


 




 
 
 
 
OFFICIAL DECLARATION—1

To Whom It May Concern:

Press dispatches having been sent for political purposes, from Salt Lake City, which have been widely published, to the effect that the Utah Commission, in their recent report to the Secretary of the Interior, allege that plural marriages are still being solemnized and that forty or more such marriages have been contracted in Utah since last June or during the past year, also that in public discourses the leaders of the Church have taught, encouraged and urged the continuance of the practice of polygamy

I, therefore, as President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, do hereby, in the most solemn manner, declare that these charges are false. We are not teaching polygamy or plural marriage, nor permitting any person to enter into its practice, and I deny that either forty or any other number of plural marriages have during that period been solemnized in our Temples or in any other place in the Territory.

One case has been reported, in which the parties allege that the marriage was performed in the Endowment House, in Salt Lake City, in the Spring of 1889, but I have not been able to learn who performed the ceremony; whatever was done in this matter was without my knowledge. In consequence of this alleged occurrence the Endowment House was, by my instructions, taken down without delay.

Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriages, which laws have been pronounced constitutional by the court of last resort, I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws, and to use my influence with the members of the Church over which I preside to have them do likewise.

There is nothing in my teachings to the Church or in those of my associates, during the time specified, which can be reasonably construed to inculcate or encourage polygamy; and when any Elder of the Church has used language which appeared to convey any such teaching, he has been promptly reproved. And I now publicly declare that my advice to the Latter-day Saints is to refrain from contracting any marriage forbidden by the law of the land.

WILFORD WOODRUFF
President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

 




President Lorenzo Snow offered the following:

“I move that, recognizing Wilford Woodruff as the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and the only man on the earth at the present time who holds the keys of the sealing ordinances, we consider him fully authorized by virtue of his position to issue the Manifesto which has been read in our hearing, and which is dated September 24th, 1890, and that as a Church in General Conference assembled, we accept his declaration concerning plural marriages as authoritative and binding.”

The vote to sustain the foregoing motion was unanimous.

Salt Lake City, Utah, October 6, 1890.







 

EXCERPTS FROM THREE ADDRESSES BY
PRESIDENT WILFORD WOODRUFF
REGARDING THE MANIFESTO

The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the programme. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that, the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so He will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty. (Sixty-first Semiannual General Conference of the Church, Monday, October 6, 1890, Salt Lake City, Utah. Reported in Deseret Evening News, October 11, 1890, p. 2.)

It matters not who lives or who dies, or who is called to lead this Church, they have got to lead it by the inspiration of Almighty God. If they do not do it that way, they cannot do it at all. . . .

I have had some revelations of late, and very important ones to me, and I will tell you what the Lord has said to me. Let me bring your minds to what is termed the manifesto. . . .

The Lord has told me to ask the Latter-day Saints a question, and He also told me that if they would listen to what I said to them and answer the question put to them, by the Spirit and power of God, they would all answer alike, and they would all believe alike with regard to this matter.

The question is this: Which is the wisest course for the Latter-day Saints to pursue—to continue to attempt to practice plural marriage, with the laws of the nation against it and the opposition of sixty millions of people, and at the cost of the confiscation and loss of all the Temples, and the stopping of all the ordinances therein, both for the living and the dead, and the imprisonment of the First Presidency and Twelve and the heads of families in the Church, and the confiscation of personal property of the people (all of which of themselves would stop the practice); or, after doing and suffering what we have through our adherence to this principle to cease the practice and submit to the law, and through doing so leave the Prophets, Apostles and fathers at home, so that they can instruct the people and attend to the duties of the Church, and also leave the Temples in the hands of the Saints, so that they can attend to the ordinances of the Gospel, both for the living and the dead?

The Lord showed me by vision and revelation exactly what would take place
if we did not stop this practice. If we had not stopped it, you would have had no use for . . . any of the men in this temple at Logan; for all ordinances would be stopped throughout the land of Zion. Confusion would reign throughout Israel, and many men would be made prisoners. This trouble would have come upon the whole Church, and we should have been compelled to stop the practice. Now, the question is, whether it should be stopped in this manner, or in the way the Lord has manifested to us, and leave our Prophets and Apostles and fathers free men, and the temples in the hands of the people, so that the dead may be redeemed. A large number has already been delivered from the prison house in the spirit world by this people, and shall the work go on or stop? This is the question I lay before the Latter-day Saints. You have to judge for yourselves. I want you to answer it for yourselves. I shall not answer it; but I say to you that that is exactly the condition we as a people would have been in had we not taken the course we have.

. . . I saw exactly what would come to pass if there was not something done. I have had this spirit upon me for a long time. But I want to say this: I should have let all the temples go out of our hands; I should have gone to prison myself, and let every other man go there, had not the God of heaven commanded me to do what I did do; and when the hour came that I was commanded to do that, it was all clear to me. I went before the Lord, and I wrote what the Lord told me to write. . . .

I leave this with you, for you to contemplate and consider. The Lord is at work with us.
(Cache Stake Conference, Logan, Utah, Sunday, November 1, 1891. Reported in Deseret Weekly, November 14, 1891.)
 
 
 

Now I will tell you what was manifested to me and what the Son of God performed in this thing. . . . All these things would have come to pass, as God Almighty lives, had not that Manifesto been given. Therefore, the Son of God felt disposed to have that thing presented to the Church and to the world for purposes in his own mind. The Lord had decreed the establishment of Zion. He had decreed the finishing of this temple. He had decreed that the salvation of the living and the dead should be given in these valleys of the mountains. And Almighty God decreed that the Devil should not thwart it. If you can understand that, that is a key to it.
 
(From a discourse at the sixth session of the dedication of the Salt Lake Temple, April 1893. Typescript of Dedicatory Services, Archives, Church Historical Department, Salt Lake City, Utah.)
 

 
 
 
 
What kind of  'Leadership' is THIS???
 
compared to...
 
 
 
 
Hebrews 11:35-40
 35.  Others were tortured and refused to be released, so that they might gain a better resurrection.
 36.  Some faced jeers and flogging, while still others were chained and put in prison.
 37.  They were stoned ; they were sawed in two; they were put to death by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated--
 38.  the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, and in caves and holes in the ground. 
 
 
or compared to...
 

Acts 4:19.  But Peter and John replied, "Judge for yourselves whether it is right in God's sight to obey you rather than God.
 


 
So much for an 'Everlasting Covenant' that thundered out of Heaven!!!
 
Well; it DID last about 47 years!
 



 
Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriage...
I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws..."

~ Wilford Woodruff, 4th LDS President

 

132 posted on 10/22/2010 4:33:51 PM PDT by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: P-Marlowe
Someday you'll be an ex-Mormon too.
133 posted on 10/22/2010 4:35:23 PM PDT by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Paragon Defender; Elsie

This enough color and font work for ya, son?


134 posted on 10/22/2010 4:36:49 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Some, believing they can't be deceived, it's nigh impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: Utah Binger

You think getting bitten by a MOOSE hurts?

Just wait ‘til I sic Casper, Jack, Ellie Mae and Gracie on your old flabby butt!


135 posted on 10/22/2010 4:37:29 PM PDT by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Utah Binger
I just had fifteen artists for dinner last night.

DAMN!

You must be STUFFED!

(Unless they wuz them starvin' kind. I hear they have very little meat on them.)

136 posted on 10/22/2010 4:39:49 PM PDT by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Paragon Defender
Never seen it. Not once.

Yeah; we know...


137 posted on 10/22/2010 4:42:16 PM PDT by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: CynicalBear
Interesting that you mention Lucifer. When Smith put in the Book of Mormon the passage supposedly quoted from Isaiah of 600BC, Smith included the Latin name, Lucifer, though Latin had not even been invented in 600BC. Proving of course that Smith was a liar and conman, lifting passages from the King James Bible and claiming they were from 600BC texts. The name Lucifer didn't show up in Isaiah until the 2nd Century, in Jerome's translation, possibly from the Hebrew, but more likely from the Septuagint.
138 posted on 10/22/2010 4:45:44 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Some, believing they can't be deceived, it's nigh impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: Elsie

My question is if all our issues are invalid why bother to respond at all...


139 posted on 10/22/2010 4:47:58 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
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To: Loud Mime
repeat: I firmly believe in God. I also firmly believe that the evil one encourages religious secularism, animosity, hatred, ridicule and war. Just like politics, there’s money involved; so, the leaders must keep their followers as followers.

Council on the Disposition of the Tithes

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Council on the Disposition of the Tithes (also known as the Council on the Disposition of Tithing) is a leadership body in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, composed of the First Presidency, the Presiding Bishopric, and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. The Council determines how the tithing funds of the church will be spent. The Council oversees revenue, investments and expenditures valued at billions of dollars per year.

While the Church employs an independent auditing department which provides an annual report to the Church[1], it has not published full financial reports since 1959.

The Council was established by church founder Joseph Smith, Jr. on 8 July 1838.[2] As of April 2009, the members of the Council are:

Businessmen and attorneys..where are the theology degrees?

140 posted on 10/22/2010 4:52:31 PM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Pray for Obama. Psalm 109:8)
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To: MHGinTN

Yep, but Lucifer is the name everyone understands at this point.

How anyone would want to be in the same league as Lucifer by thinking they can be god and even the same as god at some point is beyond me. Just that point alone should scare anyone from ever thinking that being a Mormon is good. It’s just plain horrifying if you ask me.


141 posted on 10/22/2010 4:52:53 PM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: Elsie
You must be STUFFED!

No kidding. Three of them were Mormon Muffins. Still licking my chops. Four more of the cuties were from Chicago and Madison WI. Three from SLC. And a special conservative lady from Oklahoma. Also included were three gay men from San Francisco.

I'm so tolerant when they buy big.

142 posted on 10/22/2010 5:03:08 PM PDT by Utah Binger (Mount Carmel Utah, at the Maynard Dixon Living History Museum)
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To: CynicalBear
If someone reading this thread thinks this heresy is not a current teaching of the LDS of Salt Lake City, the following from LDS ‘Prophet’ Hinckley should clear it up:
From the 1994 LDS Conference report:
On the other hand, the whole design of the gospel is to lead us onward and upward to greater achievement, even, eventually, to godhood. This great possibility was enunciated by the Prophet Joseph Smith in the King Follet sermon (see Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 342-62) and emphasized by President Lorenzo Snow. It is this grand and incomparable concept: As God now is, man may become! (See The Teachings of Lorenzo Snow, comp. Clyde J. Williams, Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1984, p. 1)

Of course, even Hinckley tried to dodge the fact of this teaching when he hedge in a Time magazine interview a few years later, climing he was 'not sure this was still taught, though he was familiar with the philosophy behind the Snow couplet.'

143 posted on 10/22/2010 5:14:19 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Some, believing they can't be deceived, it's nigh impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: Utah Binger
Three of them were Mormon Muffins.

Really now?!? Which month?


144 posted on 10/22/2010 5:45:52 PM PDT by Gamecock ( Christianity is not the movement from vice to virtue, but from virtue to Grace.)
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To: Paragon Defender; Elsie
Sorry but Mormonism IS historical Christianity restored.

_______________________________________________

Just how did Jesus "lose" His Bride ???

145 posted on 10/22/2010 5:58:39 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Gamecock
Today is today!

LOL

What are you looking at?

146 posted on 10/22/2010 6:01:21 PM PDT by Utah Binger (Mount Carmel Utah, at the Maynard Dixon Living History Museum)
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To: ejonesie22
"Native Americans were the descendants of the Israelites"

Just watched a documentary that touched on that very subject. So far DNA testing shows this assertion to be...bzzzz.... wrong!

147 posted on 10/22/2010 6:16:52 PM PDT by My hearts in London - Everett (You will try to nudge commies toward the truth, while they try to nudge you toward the cattle cars.)
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To: My hearts in London - Everett

Links please ... I could use it.


148 posted on 10/22/2010 6:34:51 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Some, believing they can't be deceived, it's nigh impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: MHGinTN

Well, I would if I could. It was a documentary on one of the cable stations. I wasn’t paying attention to what station it was as I was at a friend’s house.


149 posted on 10/22/2010 6:56:14 PM PDT by My hearts in London - Everett (You will try to nudge commies toward the truth, while they try to nudge you toward the cattle cars.)
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To: Paragon Defender

Dear Mormons who may be reading this thread,

If you peruse the Free Republic religion forums you will notice a pattern. There’s a group of Christians who spend a great deal of time posting from Official Mormon Sources - both the Book of Mormon as well as Mormon Prophets and Church materials.

You will also notice that many of these Christians are former Mormons who have left Mormonism and come to know the real Jesus Christ and His Gospel of Grace.

They have a passion to reach other Mormons to share what they learned about Salvation by grace and apart from human works.

Of course, they are attacked regularly by a very small group of Mormons who have zeal, but no knowledge beyond what the Mormon Church has told them. They also continually have a difficult time identifying any:

… Facts
… Evidence
… Logical support - that any reasonable person could understand that would validate their Mormon claims.

Consistently, this small group of Mormon posters are forced to face that their faith is based on little more than feelings that cannot be verified.

People deserve more than feelings.

The best they have been able to do is construct ad hominem attacks against Christians, which is always a sign that they have no facts, evidence of logical arguments. You have certainly witnessed this here many times as you read these threads, so I am not telling you anything you haven’t seen with your own eyes.

After reading both sides on this thread and others, you may very well be wondering about what you were taught when you joined the LDS church.

You also may be wondering how to resolve the lack of facts, evidence and illogical nature of Mormon claims. Many have approached those of us who are Christians asking where to find out more and some, even, to ask how to leave the Church and learn more about Christ’s Gospel of Grace.

Here are a few links to get you started in your quest to know the Biblical Christ.

http://www.irr.org/mit/default.html
http://www.exmormonsforjesus.org/
http://4mormon.org/ex-mormon.php
http://www.exmormon.org/
http://www.mormoncurtain.com/

You should also feel comfortable private freepmailing any Christians on this thread to ask questions about the concerns you have. We always do our best to directly answer your questions with facts, evidence and logical support from the Bible.

best,
ampu


150 posted on 10/22/2010 6:56:56 PM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
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