Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

The Doctrine of Temple Work (Mormonism - Open)
Ensign ^ | October 2003 | Elder David E. Sorensen

Posted on 10/26/2010 5:17:20 AM PDT by Colofornian

Snip

...Joseph Smith warned of the consequences when we fail to use the temples available to us: “Those Saints who neglect [temple work] in behalf of their deceased relatives, do it at the peril of their own salvation.”

Snip

A key function of temples is to perform ordinance work for our deceased ancestors. When we think of temple ordinances and the necessity to do them perfectly, without error...

“… For their salvation is necessary and essential to our salvation...they without us cannot be made perfect—neither can we without our dead be made perfect” (D&C 128:5, 15;...).

Consider the...vision of President Joseph F. Smith...:

“Thus was the gospel preached to those who had died in their sins...having rejected the prophets.

Snip

The Lord revealed through... Joseph: “All covenants, contracts, bonds, obligations, oaths, vows, performances, connections, associations, or expectations, that are not made and entered into and sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, of him who is anointed, both as well for time and for all eternity, … through the medium of mine anointed, whom I have appointed on the earth to hold this power … are of no efficacy, virtue, or force in and after the resurrection from the dead; for all contracts that are not made unto this end have an end when men are dead” (D&C 132:7).

Snip

...One of the great privileges we have is the wearing of the garment...

...The garment, … when properly worn, will serve as a protection against temptation and evil.

“It is expected that members will wear the garment both night and day...Members should not adjust the garment or wear it contrary to instructions in order to accommodate different styles of clothing...The garment should not be removed for activities which might reasonably be done with the garment worn beneath the clothing...

(Excerpt) Read more at new.lds.org ...


TOPICS: History; Other Christian; Religion & Culture; Theology
KEYWORDS: baptismofthedead; inman; lds; mormons; prayforthoseincults; temple
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-150151-200 ... 351-381 next last
Current focus -- The Occult History of Joseph Smith: The Interaction of the Mormon Earthly Spirit World with 20th-Century Mormons:

The 1910s: Why Does Yet Another Smith 'Prophet' Seek the Living Among the Dead?

The October Other-World Series:

The 19th Century:

The 1880s-1890s: “THE HEARTS OF THE CHILDREN SHALL TURN TO THEIR FATHERS”

The 1870s: The Mormon Plan of Eternal Progression

The 1850s: Spiritualism and Mormonism: Some Thoughts on Similarities and Differences

The 1840s: The Nauvoo Pentagrams

The 1830s: The Occult and the Restoration Story: Joseph Smith and RLDS/LDS Origins

The Spirit World, Our Next Home

They see dead people?

Are ghosts among us? Many believe in spirits, but churches offer stern warnings

The "familiar spirit" in 2 Nephi 26:16

The early 1800s:

JOSEPH SMITH, JR: Founder and first "Prophet, Seer, and Revelator" (1805-1844)

JOSEPH SMITH’S INVOLVEMENT WITH MAGIC, MASONRY, AND THE OCCULT

GOD-MEN AND SPIRITUAL VEGETABLES: The Occult Worldview of Mormonism

Early Mormonism and the Magic World View

1 posted on 10/26/2010 5:17:22 AM PDT by Colofornian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: All; Vendome
From the article: Consider the...vision of President Joseph F. Smith...: Thus was the gospel preached to those who had died in their sins...having rejected the prophets

Joseph F. Smith was a nephew of Joseph Smith. Lds thought so much of more dead appearing to their "prophet" in 1918 that they added it to their "Scriptures" (D&C 138)...(I think the occult world likes October for some reason). His uncle, Joseph Smith, has dozens of accounts of the dead appearing to him. And then the Lds church thought so much of this that they put most of them in a 2007 book on the series of Lds "Presidents" ("Prophets").

Specifically, Joseph F. Smith -- claimed 92 years ago this month to see the hosts of the dead, both small and great...an innumerable company of the spirits of the just (D&C 138:11-12) -- and these spirits were just waiting for Mormon missionaries to come their way to be redeemed -- as JF Smith said that the Mormon jesus had prepared "the faithful spirits of the prophets who had testified of him in the flesh; That they might carry the message of redemption unto all the dead, unto whom he could not go personally, because of their rebellion and transgression, that they through the ministration of his servants might also hear his words. (D&C 138:37-38)

Who was he talking about? This is where Mormon beliefs gets confusing. You need to understand that Mormonism teaches that the spirit world is on this planet; that it's not very far from us; and that "all mankind" goes there upon death, no matter what you did in this life. If you don't believe me, go to this Lds article as a primer: The Spirit World, Our Next Home So on the one hand, Joseph F. Smith mentions seeing the "spirits of the just", but then he also mentions seeing spirit-rebels.

Lds try to claim the apostle Peter's account of Jesus proclaiming victory to the dead in prison as Scriptural justification. But Jesus didn't go preach to the "just spirits." And the rebel spirits He preached to were only those who lived during Noah's day, a very limited number (1 Peter 3:20) in contrast to those who've ever lived on this planet. This Mormon elder writing this article tries to claim that a "gospel" was going out to those who "rejected the prophets," but there were no "prophets" mentioned in the first several chapters of the book of Genesis (up through Noah's day). Even Noah is never mentioned to be a prophet.

Besides, Jesus made it quite clear in an account about a certain rich man and a certain beggar named Lazarus (Luke 16) that when the wealthy man told Abraham that he had five brothers who should be warned about that place of flaming torment (Luke 16:23-28), Abraham told him: "They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them...If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." (Luke 16:29, 31)

So: Joseph F. Smith and this elder-writer must consider Abraham and Jesus to be either badly ill-informed, or worse, liars. Here they clearly said these in torment will not be persuaded even if a resurrected missionary comes to them. Mormons claim an entire missionary structure has been set up to go to the rebel dead who have rejected the prophets. [See link above, The Spirit World, Our Next Home, bottom of the article, for proof].

Who are you going to believe? Abraham and Jesus? Or the Mormon false prophets who contradict them?

2 posted on 10/26/2010 5:21:14 AM PDT by Colofornian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: All
The choice is simple for those inquiring about Mormonism. Do you want a system of religious ritualism, which I will call temple-ism?

Notice the legalism of Mormon templeism (warnings, "the necessity" of doing temple ordinances "perfectly, without error"...a couple of "shoulds" re: wearing underwear deemed to be "a protection against temptation and evil"; and "It is expected" in that nice almost motherly clean-your-room, do-your-chores tone. Oh, and then there's this paragraph from Joseph Smith himself, who appears he wrote it with great consultation from his attorney: From the article:

The Lord revealed through... Joseph: “All covenants, contracts, bonds, obligations, oaths, vows, performances, connections, associations, or expectations, that are not made and entered into and sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, of him who is anointed, both as well for time and for all eternity, … through the medium of mine anointed, whom I have appointed on the earth to hold this power … are of no efficacy, virtue, or force in and after the resurrection from the dead; for all contracts that are not made unto this end have an end when men are dead” (D&C 132:7).

And, of course, this isn't just "take it or leave it" stuff for Mormons...even though 80% or so "leave it" (don't have earned temple recommends from their leaders).

From the article: “Those Saints who neglect [temple work] in behalf of their deceased relatives, do it at the peril of their own salvation.” A key function of temples is to perform ordinance work for our deceased ancestors. When we think of temple ordinances and the necessity to do them perfectly, without error...“… For their salvation is necessary and essential to our salvation...they without us cannot be made perfect—neither can we without our dead be made perfect” (D&C 128:5, 15;...).

Do you catch all that is being said here?
(1) Jesus isn't enough to make people perfect. The dead "without us cannot be made perfect". Wow! Such spiritual elitism! Such gall! Jesus couldn't do it, but we as a group of Mormons can!
(2) And then Mormons have to earn their salvation by working for the dead with genealogical works out their gazoo ensued by drive-by, almost-fast-food like proxy baptisms being done in the temple ...otherwise their salvation is in "peril." This writer says it succinctly: "neither can we without our dead be made perfect."

There ya go: The demons have convinced Mormons that dead ghostly spirits are the key to their perfection!

3 posted on 10/26/2010 5:23:52 AM PDT by Colofornian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian
Oh look another “let us accuse you of being just an obsessed mean and hateful anti but not address the issues in the actual article itself because we can't” thread...
4 posted on 10/26/2010 5:25:04 AM PDT by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ejonesie22

LOL


5 posted on 10/26/2010 5:40:13 AM PDT by Colofornian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian

These threads are always helpful — they help bolster my belief that Mormonism is NOT Christian despite their public insistence that it is.


6 posted on 10/26/2010 5:46:11 AM PDT by Moonmad27 (That government is best which governs least. - Henry Thoreau)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ejonesie22

“let us accuse you of being just an obsessed mean and hateful anti but not address the issues in the actual article itself because we can’t” thread...


Another false statement

The “issues” are addressed daily. /yawn


7 posted on 10/26/2010 6:04:16 AM PDT by Paragon Defender
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian

The one thing I’ll never understand is, if Jesus wasn’t enough, then why did He come in the first place? What was the whole purpose of that? Why would God sacrifice His only son in a most horrible way, if it means nothing? And why did God say, by grace you are saved and not by works? The blood of Jesus is enough.
It has to be a heart thing, not a physical thing. When the bible says, without works your faith is dead. God’s saying, actions speak louder then words. If you love God, you will do the works. We can not work our way to heaven, so no man can boast.


8 posted on 10/26/2010 6:04:16 AM PDT by MsLady (If you died tonight, where would you go? Salvation, don't leave earth without it!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian; All

Undecided readers,

If you peruse the Free Republic religion forums you will notice a pattern. There’s an anti-Mormon group of people here that spends a great deal of their time attacking the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. They post regurgitated propaganda on an almost daily basis.

They have a misguided obsession. You can witness many different tactics employed that you might find quite interesting. The straw man argument is a big favorite and is frequently preceded by cherry-picking quotes or other material. After the “quotation” the attacker will misrepresent what has been said or what was meant and then attack their own interpretation.

Another favorite is posting scripture or statements which on their own really present no dilemma. They make something out of nothing while never bringing up a single objection that hasn’t been addressed a hundred times before.

Sometimes they cruise the headlines of the day seeking any story that might be twisted into making the Church look bad. Anything will do, just watch the progression of posts following it and see what I mean.

After reading their posts, I invite you to seek the truth about whatever “issue” they seem to be “revealing” or “exposing”. I promise that if you do so with honest intent, the “ahah” moments you will have will be many and frequent. You will start to recognize the tactics employed to cleverly twist and attack and will likely chuckle the more you see. In actuality, there’s nothing new here. It’s all been addressed many times before.

Here’s a few links to get your started from a different viewpoint. I have found that the vast majority of the “issues” brought up can be found and addressed at http://www.fairlds.org/ but here’s more:

http://scriptures.lds.org/
http://www.lds.org
http://www.fairlds.org/
http://www.mormonapologetics.org/
http://www.mormonwiki.com/Main_Page
http://www.lightplanet.com/response/index.html
http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDS_Intro.shtml
http://www.answeringantimormons.com/index.htm
http://promormon.blogspot.com/

Now you will likely notice the “you never address our points” posts pop up as usual. All after providing the answers just as you have here. Will you wear blinders too? Seek truth. Find out for yourself.


9 posted on 10/26/2010 6:05:16 AM PDT by Paragon Defender
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: All
Authors John Ankerberg and John Weldon ask the question: "How frequently do spiritistic revelations occur within Mormonism? How often are the dead contacted?"

Their response? "Given its theology, Mormon interest in seeking the spirits of the dead is logical, and spiritistic revelations and contacts occur somewhat frequently within Mormonism. One major Church teaching is that the spirits of the dead can be assisted and even saved in the next. (The Facts on the Mormon Church by John Ankerberg, John Weldon, & Dillon Burroughs 1991/2009 Harvest House Publishers, p. 68)

These authors go on to ask the question, "How did the Mormon Church adopt such beliefs? From the spirits themselves. Consider this progression:
1. From its inception, Mormonism accepted spiritistic revelations from the dead and other spirits.
2. Some of these revelations concerned the importance of contacting the dead in order to assist them spiritually.
3. As a result, contacting the dead became a theological necessity within the Mormon Church. (Same authors, p. 69)

10 posted on 10/26/2010 6:06:44 AM PDT by Colofornian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Moonmad27
These threads are always helpful — they help bolster my belief that Mormonism is NOT Christian despite their public insistence that it is.

These threads have the opposite effect on me.

11 posted on 10/26/2010 6:45:30 AM PDT by Logophile
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: MsLady
When the bible says, without works your faith is dead. God’s saying, actions speak louder then words. If you love God, you will do the works. We can not work our way to heaven, so no man can boast.

Yes, as somebody as succinctly said: Faith works.

In marriage, a faithful spouse puts that faithfulness into action.

And why did God say, by grace you are saved and not by works

Yes. Joseph Smith pitted works vs. grace in this infamous Book of Mormon passage (there's another similar redefinition of grace in the Mormon book of Helaman): "Ye are saved by grace,
AFTER
ALL
YOU
can do (2 Nephi 25:23)

So, how much does the Mormon have to do?
ALL he/she can do?
How much is that?
ALL that he/she can do!

Does grace really kick in before that, if we take the verse at face value?
No. Not until a Mormon has done ALL they can do...you see, there's the problem of that word, "after"

So the key Q:
What Mormon can say...
"I've done everything spiritually I can do"???
"I've done everything physically I can do"???
"I've done everything emotionally I can do"???
"I've done everything relationally I can do"???
"I've done everything attitudinally I can do"???
"I've done everything obedience-wise and ordinance-wise I can do"???

Boy, what a legalistic treadmill that all is! And to think Mormons who take this verse at face value then feel how they need to always prompt God's grace by first doing ALL they can do!

But that's not grace. Grace is free. It's unearned. It's unmerited. It's Undeserving. It's not based upon man's track record, but upon God's eternal Loving Kindness, forgiveness, mercy, and compassion.

The emphasis is upon Who HE IS and how that transmits down to us here.

12 posted on 10/26/2010 6:50:04 AM PDT by Colofornian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Paragon Defender
I do not see this particular issue addressed on this thread so it is not a false statement as of your posting time.

Thanks for proving my point.

Again.

13 posted on 10/26/2010 6:58:51 AM PDT by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Moonmad27
they help bolster my belief that Mormonism is NOT Christian despite their public insistence that it is.

Not that I need any bolstering but I have been educated by these articles. I've known for many many years that Mormonism was dead wrong but I have learned much more here at F.R., especially from former Mormons.

14 posted on 10/26/2010 6:59:57 AM PDT by Graybeard58 (Mark Kirk "republican", Illinois, not now, not ever...Mitt romney - ditto.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Logophile

The fact that you are LDS probably has a little to do with that, don’t you think?


15 posted on 10/26/2010 7:02:23 AM PDT by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: All
...The garment, … when properly worn, will serve as a protection against temptation and evil.

Why is it @ Mormon testimony meetings we don't hear testimonies about how somebody's temple garment (Underwear) saved them from temptation and evil?

Anybody know of such a testimony?

16 posted on 10/26/2010 7:21:12 AM PDT by Colofornian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Graybeard58

Not that I need any bolstering but I have been educated by these articles. I’ve known for many many years that Mormonism was dead wrong but I have learned much more here at F.R., especially from former Mormons.


I understand that you believe we are wrong. I used to believe that fervently myself. But calling anything you get from the propaganda spewed daily on these boards by the anti’s “educating” couldn’t be more off the mark.

If anything, you should be learning how the anti’s use constant straw man arguments, misrepresentation and twisting to provide a false picture of the LDS Church. Even if you still disagree that much is still plain to see to any sincere seeker of truth who studies these things out.


17 posted on 10/26/2010 7:31:22 AM PDT by Paragon Defender
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian

Not a common subject for testimony meeting which should normally be focused on testimony of the Savior and of his restored church. However, I have heard it brought up. So what.

Non-issue.


18 posted on 10/26/2010 7:36:00 AM PDT by Paragon Defender
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Moonmad27

That’s okay. They don’t consider you a Christian.

Funny how they talk smack both from a doctrinal nature and in general about “Gracers” and then they want to suddenly, in the last few years, co-opt Christianity so the appear mainstream, when for 150 years they had nothing positive to say about Christianity.

Contrived Convenience.


19 posted on 10/26/2010 7:38:18 AM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: MsLady; Colofornian

I will sacrafice a goat and pray for you.... /s


20 posted on 10/26/2010 7:42:01 AM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: MsLady; Colofornian

Ooops. Forgot.

I will light some incense as well.


21 posted on 10/26/2010 7:42:38 AM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Paragon Defender
Not a common subject for testimony meeting...

I wouldn't expect it to be common.

However, I have heard it brought up. So what. Non-issue.

C'mon, PD. Think.

Who or what gets the glory when you stand up at a testimony meetin' & say, "My undergarment saved me yesterday." ?????

(I mean, even startin' off a testimony in such a way would prompt some eyebrow-raisin')

Certainly Christ gets no glory in that!

When the apostle Paul used the word picture of how a soldier is dressed out in Eph.6, truth that is sourced beyond us or anything we wear gets the glory. (Paul said: "even then having your loins girt about with truth" Eph. 6:14)

Bottom line: Does the garb get the glory, or the Living Truth (John 14:6), the One who is our Living Revelation?

22 posted on 10/26/2010 7:45:59 AM PDT by Colofornian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Paragon Defender
Not a common subject for testimony meeting...

I wouldn't expect it to be common.

However, I have heard it brought up. So what. Non-issue.

C'mon, PD. Think.

Who or what gets the glory when you stand up at a testimony meetin' & say, "My undergarment saved me yesterday." ?????

(I mean, even startin' off a testimony in such a way would prompt some eyebrow-raisin')

Certainly Christ gets no glory in that!

When the apostle Paul used the word picture of how a soldier is dressed out in Eph.6, truth that is sourced beyond us or anything we wear gets the glory. (Paul said: "even then having your loins girt about with truth" Eph. 6:14)

Bottom line: Does the garb get the glory, or the Living Truth (John 14:6), the One who is our Living Revelation?

23 posted on 10/26/2010 7:45:59 AM PDT by Colofornian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Vendome
Contrived Convenience.

It is called marketing.

"Christian" carries strong brand recognition especailly in the newer overseas markets the LDS is having to tap due to the well running dry in the States.

The most powerful deity in the Latter Day Saints is the PR department.

Even their god bends to its will...

24 posted on 10/26/2010 7:45:59 AM PDT by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

Comment #25 Removed by Moderator

To: Colofornian

Cmon Colo. Think. If our Heavenly Father gave us the commandment and we are blessed by obeying, then who gets the thanks and the glory? I seriously doubt that you actually believe that we worship any objects whatsoever.

Non-issue. Blown up to be a hollywood spectacle for YOUR purposes. Shameful.


26 posted on 10/26/2010 7:54:58 AM PDT by Paragon Defender
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: Paragon Defender; Graybeard58

I wouldn’t want to say you are wrong but your insistence as part of your doctrine says all others are wrong and worshiping in a state of apostasy.

You then tell us you are the only perfect religion on earth and one is left wondering “uhm what?”

I guess I don’t blame you. If we are not “Whores of Babylon and Apostates” there is no restoration and therefore no LDS.

Guess that’s your winning strategy though, historically and even today to call everyone else names and then pretend it was never said.

And I am left wondering “why would I want to belong to any faith that considers itself to be the one perfect religion on earth” and further that I can only get into heaven if Joseph Smith inspects my passport and finds me worthy to enter heaven.

What happened to the other guy that had that had that responsibility?

If God says “There is none worthy, no not one”, why would I want to bother with trying to work my way to heaven.

Why would I want to aspire to become a god? Didn’t work out to well for Satan and if God is “...A jealous God” and “thou shalt have no others before me” shouldn’t I presume things aren’t going to workout to well me?

It’s fine by me if you believe those things but I am not willing to take a chance.


27 posted on 10/26/2010 7:55:32 AM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: ejonesie22

All hail the power of Jesus name, let angels prostate fall....


28 posted on 10/26/2010 7:57:24 AM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: Vendome

With Joe Smith’s approval of course ;-)

(whew doggies)


29 posted on 10/26/2010 8:00:29 AM PDT by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: Paragon Defender

I am not sure I understand. As a Mason, I can see where you got the idea of underwear and carried it to a maxim but it is a symbol and correct me if I am wrong, wearing it is part of your works of worthiness and a banner shield to protect you.

Similar to Catholics carrying symbols of their saints or the cross.

I mean, not really the same but like that.


30 posted on 10/26/2010 8:00:58 AM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: Vendome

I wouldn’t want to say you are wrong but your insistence as part of your doctrine says all others are wrong and worshiping in a state of apostasy.


We didn’t say it. God did. I guess he didn’t mind that you might be offended. He’d rather you listen up.


31 posted on 10/26/2010 8:01:28 AM PDT by Paragon Defender
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: Paragon Defender

God spoke through whom, where, at what time ... and it’s not in the BofM, so we are all ears to know whom the Mormon god spoke through/to.


32 posted on 10/26/2010 8:03:36 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Some, believing they can't be deceived, it's nigh impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Vendome; MsLady
I will sacrafice a goat and pray for you.... /s

Uh...I think black sheep was Joe Smith's first preference. (Ya know...not only a word picture within the family of religion...but also historically true...see below)

Hey, perhaps the "living Mormon 'prophet'" could be approached to see if he does things the way Joe Smith did.

Janis Hutchinson is an ex-Mormon. And her research shows the following on Smith's animal sacrifices:

Joseph’s Participation in Animal Sacrifice
Animal sacrifice was part of the treasure divining business. At that time, it was understood that there were both good and bad spirits guarding treasures. According to magic books, “white animals [were] sacrificed to the good Spirits and black to the evil.” Therefore, Smith procured a black sheep for one occasion, claiming it was the only way to appease the evil spirit of a particular treasure. They were to cut its throat and lead it around in a circle while bleeding. Smith even sacrificed a dog on one occasion. Mr. Stafford, the owner of the sheep, was later asked by M. Wilford Poulson, if Smith stole a black sheep from him. Stafford’s response was: No, not exactly . . . he did miss a black sheep, but soon Joseph came and admitted he took it for sacrifice but he was willing to work for it. He made wooden sap buckets to fully pay for it.

A nephew of William Stafford testified: Jo Smith, the prophet, told my uncle, William Stafford, he wanted a fat, black sheep. He said he wanted to cut its throat and make it walk in a circle three times around and it would prevent a pot of money from leaving.

JOSEPH’S OCCULT PRACTICES USED IN HIS CHURCH AND TEMPLE CEREMONY
In addition to Smith’s peep stones and divining rods, he also carried animal sacrifice into his new religion. For example, he refused to let Willard Richards be ordained an apostle unless a lamb was first slaughtered and sacrificed in the temple. Joseph soon incorporated animal sacrifice into his new priesthood. He stated: It is generally supposed that sacrifice was entirely done away when the Great Sacrifice [i.e.] the sacrifice of the Lord Jesus was offered up, and that there will be no necessity for the ordinance of sacrifice in [sic] future; but those who assert this are certainly not acquainted with the duties, privileges and authority of the Priesthood, or with the Prophets. . . . These sacrifices as well as every ordinance belonging to the Priesthood, will, when the Temple of the Lord shall be built, and the sons of Levi be purified, be fully restored and attended to in all their powers, ramifications, and blessings. . . . It is not to be understood that the law of Moses will be established again with all its rites and variety of ceremonies; this has never been spoken of by the prophets; but those things which existed prior to Moses’ day, namely, sacrifice, will be continued.

Source: Janis Hutchinson, JOSEPH SMITH’S INVOLVEMENT WITH MAGIC, MASONRY, AND THE OCCULT

For a link to a discussion of this article, you can go to: FR discussion on Joseph Smith's involvement with Magic, Masonry, and the Occult MAGIC, MASONRY, AND THE OCCULT

33 posted on 10/26/2010 8:04:43 AM PDT by Colofornian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Paragon Defender
Perhaps, by the time you graduate from Middle School, you will have learned manners (yawn?)and might even have learned how to form a cogent syllogism. But I doubt it. Here's your toon describing your mormonism apologetics style:


34 posted on 10/26/2010 8:13:26 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Some, believing they can't be deceived, it's nigh impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Logophile

Are you already a Mormon?


35 posted on 10/26/2010 8:16:06 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Some, believing they can't be deceived, it's nigh impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Paragon Defender

Thanks for your response. I still don’t understand.

What was the purpose of Christ’s 3 day fight for our souls if not give us salvation through redemption and now LDS says there is more and it wasn’t enough?

And I do understand your belief God says LDS is required but LDS picks and chooses which parts of he Bible to stand on, while casting other parts of it aside.

How am I to know only LDS is correct and perfect.

BTW, I am approaching from only investigating LDS over the last two years after hearing a friend of 20 years tell me “Some religions are more perfect than others”. Shocking as I never heard another Christian say something like that and I don’t know how man could be in a position to assess “a system” is better than all others.

I mean, it wouldn’t be any different than saying Methodists are the only true religion and you work your way to heaven, which of course is a complete misnomer.

Or that Catholicism is the one true church or the works of Calvin, Williams or that German guy and his dissertations.

Yet you rely on the very same Gospels and read from the KJV as many Christians do.

But we are not Christians and now you are?

How can you now be Christians when for 150 years LDS railed against Christianity. I won’t bore you with the quotes, you have read them here.

Moreover, what was the problem specifically with Presbyterians, who we also consider Christians?

Thanks.


36 posted on 10/26/2010 8:16:16 AM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Vendome; Paragon Defender; All
I am left wondering “why would I want to belong to any faith that considers itself to be the one perfect religion on earth” and further that I can only get into heaven if Joseph Smith inspects my passport and finds me worthy to enter heaven. What happened to the other guy that had that had that responsibility?

Well put original Q.

To answer your Q, Vendome..re: Whbat happened to the Other Guy that had that responsibility?

Well, not only did you hit it on the head about pointing out that Smith was the usurper -- the "passport...inspecter"...what I would call "Consent Central"...but per Mitt Romney's father's cousin, Marion G. Rommey, First Counselor to a few Lds "prophets" in the 60s, Smith apparently handed the Other Guy's responsibility to the Mormon church:

"This Church is the ensign on the mountain spoken of by the Old Testament prophets. It is the way, the truth, and the life" (Conference Report, April, 1961, p. 119)]

Utter idolatry! Jesus Christ alone qualifies as the object of faith -- He Himself constitute "the Way, the truth, and the life. NO man comes to the Father, but by me." (John 14:6)

Undecided readers,
Whenever you see a church -- any church -- insert themselves into a role that's left for Jesus Christ alone...run...sprint! Your soul may be at stake!

37 posted on 10/26/2010 8:18:22 AM PDT by Colofornian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian; MsLady

LOL!!!

You’re kidding?

It was an Old Testament Joke.

I did not know that.


38 posted on 10/26/2010 8:18:39 AM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Graybeard58

Momron taqiyya in action: “I understand that you believe we are wrong. I used to believe that fervently myself.”


39 posted on 10/26/2010 8:19:42 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Some, believing they can't be deceived, it's nigh impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: MHGinTN

God spoke. Through his Son Jesus Christ. Our Savior.

Why are you pretending to not know what I am talking about? Previous threads say otherwise. The first vision is common knowledge amongst all church members and anti-Mormons as well.

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1

Lurkers, read this account. It really happened. Find out the truth for yourself.


40 posted on 10/26/2010 8:20:10 AM PDT by Paragon Defender
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian; MsLady

Wait! He sacraficed a dog?

I am not down with that, unless it was a pitbull.

JS stole a sheep and then offered to work it off? It is still theft and he was counting on the benevolence of the owner to allow him to work it off, if caught?


41 posted on 10/26/2010 8:23:20 AM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Vendome
All hail the power of Jesus name, let angels prostate fall....

That's an unfortunate typo. :)

42 posted on 10/26/2010 8:24:31 AM PDT by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian

“This Church is the ensign on the mountain spoken of by the Old Testament prophets. It is the way, the truth, and the life” (Conference Report, April, 1961, p. 119)]

Really?

How can Christ now be in error?

John 14:6 (King James Version)

6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

You know, I as born yesterday but I am pretty sure it was real early.


43 posted on 10/26/2010 8:26:48 AM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: Paragon Defender

>>Seek truth. Find out for yourself.<<

I have sought the truth, I have found out for myself. Mormons are committing the same sin that Satan/Lucifer did that caused God to cast him out of heaven and damn him to eternity in hell. He believed like the Mormons do now that they could become like God.

The Mormons today try to convince people that they too can become like God just as Lucifer did with Adam and Eve.


44 posted on 10/26/2010 8:27:29 AM PDT by CynicalBear
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: ShadowAce

I know but I hit send before fixing the Prostrate Angels part.

I’m a dork.


45 posted on 10/26/2010 8:32:25 AM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian
John Ankerberg

Is that sleaze ball still around?

If he is still raking in the money with his "shows" it proves that the old saying " There's a sucker born every minute" is oh so true.

46 posted on 10/26/2010 8:34:43 AM PDT by TYVets
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Paragon Defender

You have a lot to learn, PD. Your peepstone sexual predator of married women ‘prophet’ did not receive instructions for the temple rituals from the supposed first vision ... and there are nine very different versions of this so-called first vision. I see why you usually refuse to answer questions; you’re not up to speed, PD. Better go back to posting just your accusation accompanied by the haystacks list.


47 posted on 10/26/2010 8:34:50 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Some, believing they can't be deceived, it's nigh impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: Vendome

The wording of you statements/inquiries leaves me very wary of your true intent.

All of your inquiries are addressed at the links provided but I will address a few.


And I do understand your belief God says LDS is required but LDS picks and chooses which parts of he Bible to stand on, while casting other parts of it aside.


God says LDS is required? Do you mean for the highest degree of heaven? Sure. And through temple work even those who did not have the opportunity in this life can achieve that too. God loves us all and is truly just.

We don’t pick and chose which parts of the Bible to stand on at all. We have a better understanding of some of the Bible through modern revelation. We cast nothing aside. Having a different understanding is not casting aside.


But we are not Christians and now you are?


Who said you are not Christians? This is another example of wording that makes me suspect your intentions. This sounds like a statement right off an anti-Mormon website.

Statements saying we are not like the Christians of today etc from the past were accurate in that. It doesn’t equate to “railing against Christianity”. Arguably, the LDS Church is the only true Christian Church on the face of the earth today. The others are Christian denominations as well but they do not have the full gospel. The vast majority are well-meaning and good people.

Please refer to the links provided for additional information.

Thanks! - PD

http://scriptures.lds.org/
http://www.lds.org
http://www.fairlds.org/
http://www.mormonapologetics.org/
http://www.mormonwiki.com/Main_Page
http://www.lightplanet.com/response/index.html
http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDS_Intro.shtml
http://www.answeringantimormons.com/index.htm
http://promormon.blogspot.com/


48 posted on 10/26/2010 8:39:37 AM PDT by Paragon Defender
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: CynicalBear

Interesting that you mention ‘Lucifer’, a Latin name. In the BofM fantasy novel by Joseph Smith, the author includes a passage which is supposed a direct wuote of the prophet Isaiah, written in 600BC. The quote is supposed to be a verification thus quoted exactly. BUT the name Lucifer is in the text of the 600BC quote, and Latin didn’t even come into exitence until much later than 600BC. The name doesn’t show up in any translations of scripture until approximately the 2nd Century AD, possibly with the translation Jerome did. It then is found in the King Jmaes edition also, hinting very strongly that the author of the BofM was copying the supposed 600BC quote right out of the King James Bible. Smith lied even in his fantasy novel, the Book of Mormon.


49 posted on 10/26/2010 8:40:31 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Some, believing they can't be deceived, it's nigh impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: Paragon Defender

Okay this is going to take some time and I am starting to see how LDS came about and how Joseph Smith came to his viewpoint.

Though one has to concede that Joseph Smith, at that time was doing the same exact thing as follows:

The Presbyterians were most decided against the Baptists and Methodists, and used all the powers of both reason and sophistry to prove their errors, or, at least, to make the people think they were in error. On the other hand, the Baptists and Methodists in their turn were equally zealous in endeavoring to establish their own tenets and disprove all others.

So now I understand why Joseph Smith was more pointed about the Presbyterians as his view was Presbyterian where more strident than others in their “sophistry to prove ...errors...”.

Their was at that time a great religous movement going on and with time I will be able write something more cogent.

Getting back to reading JOSEPH SMITH—HISTORY.

Thanks


50 posted on 10/26/2010 8:42:08 AM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously... You'll never live through it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-150151-200 ... 351-381 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson