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Discovering Lds Britain: Discovering Lds Preston - Satanic Attack
Lds Britain.com ^ | Feb. 10, 2010 | Peter Fagg (compiler)

Posted on 10/30/2010 6:03:54 AM PDT by Colofornian

Heber C. Kimball recalled:

“Sunday, July 30th, about daybreak, Elder Isaac Russell….came up to the third story, where Elder Hyde and myself were sleeping, and called out, ‘Brother Kimball, I want you should get up and pray for me that I may be delivered from the evil spirits that are tormenting me to such a degree that I feel I cannot live long, unless I obtain relief.”

"I had been sleeping on the back of the bed. I immediately arose, slipped off at the foot of the bed, and passed around to where he was. Elder Hyde threw his feet out, and sat up in the bed, and we laid hands on him, I being mouth, and prayed that the Lord would have mercy on him, and rebuked the devil. While thus engaged, I was struck with great force by some invisible power, and fell senseless on the floor. (Whitney p. 129-131)

Orson Hyde observed this same moment in his account:

“his [Heber's] voice faltered, and his mouth was shut, and he began to tremble and reel to and fro, and fell on the floor like a dead man, and uttered a deep groan. I immediately seized him by the shoulder, and lifted him up, being satisfied that the devils were exceedingly angry because we attempted to cast them out of Br. Russell, and they made a powerful attempt upon elder Kimball as if to dispatch him at once, they struck him senseless and he fell to the floor (Elder's p. 4)

Heber continued...

The first thing I recollected was being supported by Elders Hyde and Richards, who were praying for me; Elder Richards having followed Russell up to my room. Elder Hyde and Richards then assisted me to get on the bed, but my agony was so great I could not endure it, and I arose, bowed my knees and prayed. I then arose and sat up on the bed, when a vision was opened to our minds, and we could distinctly see the evil spirits, who foamed and gnashed their teeth at us. (Whitney p. 130-131)

Years later (1856) Heber told a congregation in the Salt Lake Tabernacle,

“I saw their hands, their eyes, and every feature of their faces, the hair on their heads, and their ears, in short they had full formed bodies.“ (Journal of Discourses Vol. 3 mar 2, 1856, p. 229)

Heber's account continued:

We gazed upon them about an hour and a half (by Willard’s watch). We were not looking towards the window, but towards the wall. Space appeared before us, and we saw the devils coming in legions, with their leaders, who came within a few feet of us. They came towards us like armies rushing to battle They appeared to be men of full stature, possessing every form and feature of men in the flesh, who were angry and desperate; and I (Kimball) shall never forget the vindictive malignity depicted on their countenances as they looked me in the eye; and any attempt to paint the scene which then presented itself, or portray their malice and enmity, would be vain. I perspired exceedingly, my clothes becoming as wet as if I had been taken out of the river. I felt excessive pain, and was in the greatest distress for sometime. (Whitney p. 130-131)

ORSON: Immediately he [Heber] recovered his strength in part, so as to get up; the sweat began to roll from him most powerfully, and he was almost as wet as if he had been taken out of the water,

(Elder’s p.4)

HEBER: We distinctly heard those spirits talk and express their wrath and hellish designs against us.

(Whitney p. 130-131)

ORSON: We could very sensibly hear the evil spirits rage and foam out their shame.”

(Elder’s p.4)

FIELDING: They could hear a sound from them, i.e the evil spirits, like the grating of teeth, quite plainly. (Fielding, p.22)

ORSON: …After you were overcome by them and had fallen, their awful rush upon me with knives, threats, imprecations, hellish grins, amply convinced me that they were no friends of mine. While you were apparently senseless and lifeless on the floor and upon the bed (after we had laid you there), I (Orson) stood between you (Heber) and the devils and fought them and contended with them face to face, until they began to diminish in number and to retreat from the room. The last imp that left turned around to me as he was going out and said, as if to apologize, and appease my determined opposition to them, ‘I never said anything against you!’ I replied to him thus: ‘It matters not me whether you have or have not; you are a liar from the beginning! In the name of Jesus Christ depart!’ He immediately left, and the room was clear. That closed the scene of devils for the time. (Whitney 131)

FIELDING: They however kept their distances, but turned their heads toward Bro. Hyde; one looking at him said distinctly, but with a murmuring tone, slowly demure, I never spoke against you. He said there seemed to be legion of them. He was alarmed, but very much disgusted. He could scarcely bear to speak of them. (Fielding, p. 23)

However, the Lord delivered us from them, and blessed up exceedingly on that day. (Whitney 130-131)

The aftermath...

Twenty years later Heber shared some interesting insights:

“If evil spirits could come to me, cannot ministering spirits and angels also come from God? Of course they can, and there are thousands of them, and I wish you to understand this, and that they can rush as an army going to battle, for the evil spirits came upon me and brother Hyde in that way.”

…..When I returned home I called upon brother Joseph , and we walked down the bank of the river. He there told me what contests he had had with the devil; he told me that he had contests with the devil, face to face. He also told me how he was handled and afflicted by the devil, and said, he had known circumstances where Elder Rigdon was pulled out of bed three times in one night.

The Lord has hosts of angels who are qualified to defend us, and they have information enough to march armies and to select leaders to lead them against the enemy of the Saints… JD V.3 p229

The fact is the adversary sure puts on a good show, but he's no match for the real thing.

JOSEPH: It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling my by name and said, pointing to the other - This is My Beloved Son, Hear Him!” JSH 1:15-17

Sources

Elder’s Journal, Letter 1 (1837), p.4 Quoted by Barron Howard. Orson Hyde: Missionary, Apostle, Colonizer. Horizon Publishers, Bountiful, Utah. 1978 p.95.

Fielding, Joseph. Joseph Fielding Diary. Courtesy of his descendants Keith & Ilene Foulger.

Kimball., Stanley, B. On the Potter's Wheel, Diary 1.

Journal of Discourses. Volume 3. Liverpool, 1856.

Whitney, Orson F. The Life of Heber C. Kimball. Bookcraft, Utah. 1945.


TOPICS: History; Other Christian; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: demonpossession; inman; lds; missionaries; mormon
From the compilation: “his [Heber's] voice faltered, and his mouth was shut, and he began to tremble and reel to and fro, and fell on the floor like a dead man, and uttered a deep groan. I immediately seized him by the shoulder, and lifted him up...they made a powerful attempt upon elder Kimball as if to dispatch him at once, they struck him senseless and he fell to the floor (Elder's p. 4)
Heber continued...

...Elder Hyde and Richards then assisted me to get on the bed, but my agony was so great I could not endure it, and I arose, bowed my knees and prayed. I then arose and sat up on the bed, when a vision was opened to our minds, and we could distinctly see the evil spirits, who foamed and gnashed their teeth at us. (Whitney p. 130-131)
Years later (1856) Heber told a congregation in the Salt Lake Tabernacle,
“I saw their hands, their eyes, and every feature of their faces, the hair on their heads, and their ears, in short they had full formed bodies.“ (Journal of Discourses Vol. 3 mar 2, 1856, p. 229)

I also came across a Letter from Heber C. Kimball on the Early Lancashire work dated 2 Sep 1837:

p.5 A singular circumstance occurred before morning, which I will quote from Brother Hyde's journal, as he wrote it down. He commences as follows: "Elder [Isaac] Russell was much troubled with evil spirits and came into the room where Elder [Heber C.] Kimball and myself were sleeping and desired us to lay our hands on him and rebuke the evil spirit. I arose upon the bed and Brother Kimball got upon the floor and I sat upon the bed. We laid our hands on him and Brother Kimball rebuked and prayed for him but just before he had finished his prayer, his voice faltered and his mouth was shut and he began to tremble and reel to and fro and fell on the floor like a dead man, and uttered a deep groan. I immediately seized him by the shoulder and lifted him up, being satisfied that the devils were exceeding angry because we attempted to cast them out of Brother Russel and they made a powerful attempt upon Elder Kimball as if to dispatch him at once. They struck him senseless and he fell to the floor. Brother Russel and myself then laid our hands on Elder Kimball and rebuked the evil spirits, in the name of Jesus Christ, and immediately he recovered his strength in part so as to get up. The sweat began to roll from him most powerfully and he was almost as wet as if he had been taken out of the water. We could very sensibly hear the evil spirits rage and foam out their shame. Brother Kimball was quite weak for a day or two after. It seems that the devils are determined to destroy us...
Source: Mormon missionary history

Let me add what Lds "apostle" Bruce R. McConkie thinks about such possessions: "That persons possessed by evil spirits are subjected to the severest mental and physical sufferings and to the basest sort of degredation [sic] -- all symbolical of the eternal torment to be imposed upon those who fall under Satan's control in the world to come" (McConkie, p. 311 Doctrinal NT Commentary, Vol. I: The Gospels Bookcraft )
And: "Evil spirits can completely transform a personal physically and mentally." (same source, p. 312)

1 posted on 10/30/2010 6:04:00 AM PDT by Colofornian
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To: All
The October Other-World Series:

Current focus -- The Occult History of Joseph Smith: The Interaction of the Mormon Earthly Spirit World with 21st-Century Mormons: How Mormonism Encourages Contact with the Dead -- and Incidences of Demonic Contact

The 21st century: Mormons & Halloween: How we celebrate, and what to do if it's on a Sunday

The early 20th century:

The 1910s: Becoming Scripture: D&C 138

The 1910s: “And I Saw the Hosts of the Dead, Both Small and Great": Joseph F. Smith, World War I, and His Visions of the Dead

The 1910s: The Doctrine of Temple Work

The 19th Century:

The 1880s-1890s: “THE HEARTS OF THE CHILDREN SHALL TURN TO THEIR FATHERS”

The 1870s: The Mormon Plan of Eternal Progression

The 1850s: Spiritualism and Mormonism: Some Thoughts on Similarities and Differences

The 1840s: The Nauvoo Pentagrams

The 1830s: The Occult and the Restoration Story: Joseph Smith and RLDS/LDS Origins

The Spirit World, Our Next Home

They see dead people?

Are ghosts among us? Many believe in spirits, but churches offer stern warnings

The "familiar spirit" in 2 Nephi 26:16

The early 1800s:

JOSEPH SMITH, JR: Founder and first "Prophet, Seer, and Revelator" (1805-1844)

JOSEPH SMITH’S INVOLVEMENT WITH MAGIC, MASONRY, AND THE OCCULT

GOD-MEN AND SPIRITUAL VEGETABLES: The Occult Worldview of Mormonism

Early Mormonism and the Magic World View

2 posted on 10/30/2010 6:06:20 AM PDT by Colofornian ("So how do LDS deal with the [Adam-God] phenomenon? WE DON'T; WE SIMPLY SET IT ASIDE" - BYU prof)
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To: All
Note:

In more recent years than the 1837 demon possessions, these evil spirits are still having their way with Mormon missionaries:

Late 1970s or 1980-1981: The Evil Spirit Haunting of the Lds Brazilian Mission

"A few years ago while touring the missions of South America, I heard President William Grant Gangerter of the Brazilian Mission make some interesting comments. He reported that there had been a wave of incidents in which evil spirits were afflicting the missionaries and the Saints. At every conference the missionaries were relating experiences they were having with evil spirits. The intensity of their influence was frightening." Come Unto Christ, Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, for 1984, 1988 published 1983, 1986 p. 109

3 posted on 10/30/2010 6:11:02 AM PDT by Colofornian ("So how do LDS deal with the [Adam-God] phenomenon? WE DON'T; WE SIMPLY SET IT ASIDE" - BYU prof)
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To: Colofornian; Elsie
he began to tremble and reel to and fro, and fell on the floor like a dead man, and uttered a deep groan. I immediately seized him by the shoulder, and lifted him up...they made a powerful attempt upon elder Kimball as if to dispatch him at once, they struck him senseless and he fell to the floor… (Elder's p. 4) Heber continued...

This happens often when one has one or two too many. Or when you use straight grain rubbing alcohol by mistake.

The sweat began to roll from him most powerfully and he was almost as wet as if he had been taken out of the water. We could very sensibly hear the evil spirits rage and foam out their shame. Brother Kimball was quite weak for a day or two after. It seems that the devils are determined to destroy us...

And there's nothing worse than a bad hangover.

4 posted on 10/30/2010 6:16:18 AM PDT by Utah Binger (Mount Carmel Utah, Maynard Dixon Country)
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To: Colofornian

The Evil Spirit Haunting of the Lds Danish Mission

In 1962 we made an afternoon visit to the Tuborg Brewery. Those evil spirits were everywhere. Especially after one or ten @7%.

5 posted on 10/30/2010 6:25:40 AM PDT by Utah Binger (Mount Carmel Utah, Maynard Dixon Country)
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To: All
Seekers of truth,

If you peruse the Free Republic religion forums you will notice a pattern. There's an anti-Mormon group of people here that spends a great deal of their time attacking the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. They post regurgitated propaganda on an almost daily basis.

They have a misguided obsession. You can witness many different tactics employed that you might find quite interesting. The straw man argument is a big favorite and is frequently preceded by cherry-picking quotes or other material. After the "quotation" the attacker will misrepresent what has been said or what was meant and then attack their own interpretation.Later they will have the audacity to claim they were "only" quoting our own material.  

They will of course insist ad nauseum that they are merely using our sources and are therefore innocent of any deceptive practice. LDS persons have no issue whatsoever having our scriptures or leaders quoted as long as it is presented fairly and accurately. This is rarely (if ever) done.

Another favorite is posting scripture or statements which on their own really present no dilemma. They make something out of nothing while never bringing up a single objection that hasn't been addressed a hundred times before.

You might note a couple of other tactics used to try to antagonize is the use of disrespectful or insulting terms or language and/or pictures. That's a Christlike thing to do right? Yeah I don't think so either. It does speak volumes about them though.

Sometimes they cruise the headlines of the day seeking any story that might be twisted into making the Church look bad. Anything will do, just watch the progression of posts following it and see what I mean.

After reading their posts, I invite you to seek the truth about whatever "issue" they seem to be "revealing" or "exposing". I promise that if you do so with honest intent, the "ahah" moments you will have will be many and frequent. You will start to recognize the tactics employed to cleverly twist and attack and will likely chuckle the more you see. In actuality, there's nothing new here. It's all been addressed many times before.

The latest twist in the anti-Mormon propaganda machine is to actually go to the links provided, but then they cherry pick what they want, then quote and straw man attack that. Clever. It almost appears that they are helping you, the seeker of truth out by doing some footwork for you. Not so much. Don't be insulted, look for yourself. It's not the haystack they want you to think.

Here's a few links to get your started from a different viewpoint. I have found that the vast majority of the "issues" brought up can be found and addressed at http://www.fairlds.org/ but here's more:

http://scriptures.lds.org/
http://www.lds.org
http://www.fairlds.org/
http://www.mormonapologetics.org/
http://www.mormonwiki.com/Main_Page
http://www.lightplanet.com/response/index.html
http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDS_Intro.shtml
http://www.answeringantimormons.com/index.htm
http://promormon.blogspot.com/

Now you will likely notice the "you never address our points" posts pop up as usual. All after providing the answers just as you have here.

Sometimes it is claimed that these sites present a needle in a haystack. Far from it. But if you give up before you try you won't know will you?

Will you wear blinders too? Seek truth. Find out for yourself. Want to chat with someone on any topic? A few of these sites provide just that. So do your homework sincere seeker of truth. Listen and read from both "sides". Make up your own mind.

I witness to you of these truths and wish you the best, in the name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Amen.

 


6 posted on 10/30/2010 6:37:12 AM PDT by Paragon Defender
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To: Paragon Defender; Colofornian
Thanks you CC for posting to lds owned sites.

And again PD why do you continue to post links to (with two exceptions) unofficial lds sites. I though you wanted people to know the truth.

7 posted on 10/30/2010 7:04:50 AM PDT by svcw (Legalism is enforced revelation)
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To: Utah Binger
This happens often when one has one or two too many. Or when you use straight grain rubbing alcohol by mistake.

I think it was those 'shrooms left over from the speshul ceremony that Sister Maud put in the dinner stew.

8 posted on 10/30/2010 7:13:51 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Pray for Obama. Psalm 109:8)
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To: All
Discerning, decided readers,

Some Non Defenders Non Defend by claiming what we say has been covered over & over @ links they provide...
These Non Defenders claim these are Non issues...
...and that all you need to do is click, pop in a word in the search, click again and voila!
...”needles of wisdom” just pour forth from your computer screen...

Some Non Defenders claim one such haystack link worth investigatin' is fairlds.org...
...So when you take up this defective deflective challenge...
...and put in a phrase like “Adam-God” [re: Brigham Young's teaching that the first man, Adam, was God] in the search box of that Web site, the second entry that pops up from that search is Church doctrine/Repudiated concepts/Adam-God [This is FAIR's WIKI format attempt to address some things]

Some Non Defenders claim such entries at their links both "address" and "answer" these claims...
...yet when you check under the hood of this lemon, you get varied Lds apologists' opinion about Brigham's "Adam is God" teaching...
...like: Brigham was wrong [Joseph Smith said the very “first principle” of the Mormon gospel was to know the character of God, (King Follet funeral sermon), yet Brigham couldn't get a kindergarten identity issue down in not being able to distinguish Adam from God?]

Some Non Defenders claim such entries at their links reinforce for us such attractive snapshots of Brigham Young, such as Lds apologist Van Hale's concession that Brigham was ”mistaken” about who Adam was and that Adam, after all, was a ”complex doctrinal subject.”

Some Non Defenders claim such entries at their links love to cite Lds “apostle” letters from almost 30 years ago, letters which concede THAT BRIGHAM YOUNG, CONTRADICTED BRIGHAM YOUNG, AND THE ISSUE BECOMES ONE OF WHICH BRIGHAM YOUNG WE WILL BELIEVE. [Lds "apostle" Bruce R. McConkie, 1981 letter cited on link above]

Therefore, instead of Non Defenders just telling you outright that Lds “apostles” concede that...
Brigham Young taught falsely who God was...
But didn't always identify Adam as God...
Therefore, Brigham Young was theologically schizophrenic...
And that Brigham Young was 100% untrustworthy, because we don't know (still) which Brigham Young to believe?

...he makes you click twice, type in a word, and read an entire Mormon FAIR Wiki entry!!!

Some Non Defenders claim such entries at their links don't all agree what Mormon apologists should do about Brigham's out-of-tune “glitches” … as if you – the spiritual inquirer – just warm up and tingle all inside whenever you hear admissions from “the faithful” that their flock front man “glitches” on basic Genesis quizzes like, “Who was Adam?” But, not wanting to psychoanalyze Brigham Young as spiritually schizophrenic, what's a Mormon apologist to do?

Well, that narrows down the conclusions left for the average Mormon apologist, if you follow the links provided by some Non Defenders.

Why, if Brigham wasn't schizophrenic, what then?
Final “options?”...
The summations below precede the bracketed {actual quotations found @ one of Non Defender's links -- FAIR's WIKI entry on Adam-God being "repudiated"}

#1 Brigham was PR-challenged {“A final explanation is that Brigham Young believed and taught Adam-God...but he...didn't live long enough to 'develop' the teaching [read: spin] into something that could be reconciled with LDS scripture...”}
#2 Brigham inspired a LOT of Mormon agnostic followers about who God was: {”We don't know...In this view, we simply don't know what Brigham Young meant...”}
#3 Brigham's plain English was non-interpretable minus either a decoder ring, or dark hat, or the Joe Smith special urim and thummim {"We simply don't know what Brigham Young meant."...why that could only mean they don't know plain English!!!}
#4 Brigham's “revelation receptor” was “glitch” prone – comparable to the Ford Pinto of a later era {”An anomaly is a glitch.... A classic example of an anomaly in the LDS tradition is the so-called "Adam-God theory." -- BYU professor Stephen Robinson}
#5 Brigham inspired in the average Mormon apologist this “confessional credo”: “How do we Mormons deal with these questions? We don't. We abandon them...like we abandon you the inquirer...like we abandon the questions on FR.” {”So how do Latter-day Saints deal with the phenomenon? WE DON'T; WE SIMPLY SET IT ASIDE.” – BYU professor Stephen Robinson}

Such “gems of wisdom” await you all...all at the multiple click of a mouse!

9 posted on 10/30/2010 7:17:43 AM PDT by Colofornian ("So how do LDS deal with the [Adam-God] phenomenon? WE DON'T; WE SIMPLY SET IT ASIDE" - BYU prof)
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To: greyfoxx39

LOL, I don’t think they had figured out speshul brownies back then in Jolly Ol’ Britain.

Mushrooms, indeed!


10 posted on 10/30/2010 7:29:34 AM PDT by Utah Binger (Mount Carmel Utah, Maynard Dixon Country)
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To: Paragon Defender
Photobucket

BOO!

11 posted on 10/30/2010 7:58:30 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Pray for Obama. Psalm 109:8)
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To: Paragon Defender; All

12 posted on 10/30/2010 8:56:28 AM PDT by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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To: Colofornian
It is interesting that after the Mountain Meadows Massacre, many mormons believed the meadows were haunted and the spirits of the dead gathered there each night and re-enacted the massacre.

Some Mormons were so overcome with guilt they took to drink to relieve their guilt and told others of their torments because of their part in the MMM.

A young school teacher at St George named Spencer wasted to a skeleton and died after writing to his bishop and Brigham Young, pleading for some assurance that could drive away the tortures of remorse that haunted him.

Escaping mormons who fled Utah were quick to relieve their guilt-laden souls by confession.

13 posted on 10/30/2010 9:19:00 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (I visited GEN TOMMY FRANKS Military Museum in HOBART, OKLAHOMA! Well worth it!)
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To: greyfoxx39

Ha Ha Ha ........... clever


14 posted on 10/30/2010 9:57:34 AM PDT by svcw (Legalism is enforced revelation)
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To: svcw
Ha Ha Ha ........... clever

Someone, who won't get the message, will be here shortly to make a nasty remark about it.

grin

15 posted on 10/30/2010 10:14:25 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Pray for Obama. Psalm 109:8)
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To: Paragon Defender
stop claiming
16 posted on 10/30/2010 10:19:12 AM PDT by greyfoxx39 (Pray for Obama. Psalm 109:8)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar; livius
It is interesting that after the Mountain Meadows Massacre, many mormons believed the meadows were haunted and the spirits of the dead gathered there each night and re-enacted the massacre...A young school teacher at St George named Spencer wasted to a skeleton and died after writing to his bishop and Brigham Young, pleading for some assurance that could drive away the tortures of remorse that haunted him.

Almost two months ago, FREEPER poster Livius was commenting on a Mountain Meadows Massacre thread on the Sept. 11 anniversary of that slaughter.

Ping to Livius for further comment...but for now, allow me to quote what Livius wrote on that thread:

It was a horrible thing. I was driving across the country once many years ago and we arrived at a park with a campground in the late evening and decided to stop there for the night. We set up camp and went to bed almost immediately, because the place was somehow unpleasant. My kids didn’t sleep at all and I had to keep getting up and going to them, and in fact none of us could sleep. I woke up in a real panic in the middle of the night, something that never happens to me because I love going camping and I am not nervous at all. As soon as the faintest dawn broke, we got up and packed up and drove out of the camp. At the gate, we stopped and read the sign: Mountain Meadows. There was a brief description of what had happened on the site, but it wasn’t until later that I read the full story. However, that did explain our horrible night (and I’m not even a very “sensitive” person). It must have been awful.
Source: FReeper poster Livius, Sept. 10, 2010, Twin Sept. 11 tragedies created tides of religious intolerance post #15.

Now we know why when the Jews had an unknown murderer in their midst, they would sacrifice a heifer so that the Lord would not hold all of them accountable. (Read Deuteronomy 21:1-9).

There's just something about a region where the shed blood of the innocent coupled with no justice seems to set other unknown dynamics that we don't know about into play.

17 posted on 10/30/2010 10:52:40 AM PDT by Colofornian ("So how do LDS deal with the [Adam-God] phenomenon? WE DON'T; WE SIMPLY SET IT ASIDE" - BYU prof)
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To: Colofornian

What You Need to Know About the Mormons
But They Probably Won’t Tell You
By Isaiah Bennett

This Rock
Volume 10, Number 5
May 1999

“Good morning, sir. I’m Elder Lamb and this is Elder Sanders. We’re from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and we have an important message for you. May we come in?”

If you let them in, you’ve invited them to begin the process of “discussions,” six canned lessons they’ve been trained to deliver, leading, ideally, to your baptism into the Mormon Church.

They’ll begin by telling you the Heavenly Father has a plan for your eternal happiness. Jesus Christ and Joseph Smith are central figures in this plan of salvation. Both prophets, ancient and modern, reveal the purpose and will of God. The Book of Mormon is additional scripture testifying to the message.

The lessons last about an hour each and are spread over four to six weeks. On their second and subsequent visits, the young missionaries will urge you to repentance, faith in their doctrines, baptism into their church, and moral living. Only their church, they say, can lead you to true righteousness and ultimate salvation. All other so-called Christian churches profess creeds abominable to the Lord and offer only counterfeit holiness (Joseph Smith, History 1:19; found in the Mormon book of scripture The Pearl of Great Price). Shortly after the death of the apostles, Mormons claim, the pure Christian faith was overtaken by false doctrine and vanished totally from the earth. This “apostasy” was reversed and the true Church was restored in 1830 in upstate New York by the boy-prophet, Joseph Smith.

If you live a life obedient to LDS dictates, you can progress to the point of perfection. You will become like God and return to him in his highest heaven. Provided your spouse, children, and parents live equally dedicated lives, you will spend eternity with them as a family.

Requirements for this eventual “exaltation” include living the “Word of Wisdom,” or abstaining from coffee, tea, alcohol, and tobacco; tithing, or paying to the Church one-tenth of your income; fulfilling all Church responsibilities; and dedicating all your energy to spreading the Mormon gospel.

Not an unattractive message, on the face of it. Some spiritual seekers are drawn by the Mormon challenge of sacrificial living and giving. Ignorant of the orthodox Christian teaching on salvation and eternal life, many suffering the loss of a loved one find consolation in the Mormon teaching on eternal families. Culling an occasional spiritual kernel from the Book of Mormon, prospective converts conclude both it and its ecclesiastical publisher present divine truths.

But Mormons, whether missionaries, neighbors, or colleagues, are trained to present only the “milk” beliefs, the bland and less offensive teachings designed to hook the unsuspecting. The “meatier” doctrines are kept for later-much later. Indeed, many faithful members know little or nothing of their Church’s fundamental tenets.

Here are some of them.

1. God the Father is a glorified man, possessing a physical body.

That is, the Almighty Lord was once born of human parents in some other universe. He lived a Mormon way of life, repented of his sins, died, and was eventually raised by his God and installed as God of this world.

Mormons justify this belief by mishandling and misunderstanding such biblical texts as Genesis 1:26-27, Exodus 33:11, Deuteronomy 4:34, Psalms 33:18, and Nahum 1:3. Most of these passages, and others like them, refer to the “arm,” “eye,” and “feet” of the Lord. However, other passages speak of God’s “feathers” and “wings” (Ps. 91:4). Or they refer to him as a “consuming fire” (Deut. 4:24) or a “rock” (Deut. 32:4). In all these examples, the inspired writers simply try to communicate in human words and images the inexpressible power, presence, and love of the infinite God.

Latter-day Saints force the context of Genesis 1:26-27. Since man is made in God’s image, they argue, God must look like a man. Though the Genesis passage states God created man both male and female, Mormons insist that God the Father is a male. The fact is, “the image of God” refers not to some literal correlation of body parts but to the spiritual similarities shared by him with his rational creatures (angels and human beings). In other words, we are made in God’s image because we, like him, can choose and can love. We are endowed with the possibility of such moral and intellectual qualities as holiness, wisdom, and justice. By these, we enjoy spiritual fellowship, even sonship, with the Father and “pattern” of our spirits.

When confronted by Mormons with their belief in an almighty Heavenly Father, ask them about his origins. Was there ever a time he didn’t exist? Was he always God? Did he ever commit sin? (Mormon apostle Bruce R. McConkie taught that the Father “worked out his own salvation by obedience to the same laws” he has since given us. [A New Witness for the Articles of Faith, 64]). If he has a body of flesh and bones, where is it? (On a planet near the star Kolob, Mormons maintain. See Abraham 3:3 in The Pearl of Great Price. )

Help Latter-day Saints to see the true nature of God: He is infinite Spirit (John 4:24). A spirit does not have flesh and bones (Luke 24:39). God is not a man, even an exalted one (Num. 23:19; Hos. 11:9). God was always God; he is immortal, and he is all-holy (1 Tim. 1:17). No one can see the “face” of God and live (Ex. 33:20, John 1:18).

2. There are many Gods.

Mormons will tell you they believe in one God whom they call the Heavenly Father. They worship and pray to him alone. But-referring to Genesis 1:26-27 and 1 Corinthians 8:5-Latter-day Saints insist the ancient Jewish patriarchs and prophets, along with Paul and the other apostles, believed in a plurality of Gods.

If you press them, they respond, “Look, God himself taught Mormon doctrine. See here, God says, ‘Let us make man in our image’ [Gen. 1:26]. He was talking to His Son, Jesus Christ, and the spirit-man, the Holy Ghost. Right there, then, you’ve got three Gods. Those three Gods oversee our universe. The Father is supreme, and the other two are his helpers.”

At first blush, the Mormon apologist has confused three distinct persons of the Trinity with three separate Gods. But it gets worse. Paul, they maintain, knew of other Gods when he wrote to the Corinthians: “For there be [those] that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth (as there be gods many and lords many), but to us there is but one God” (1 Cor. 8:5-6). Therefore, Mormons assert, there are as many supreme Gods as there are worlds. Brigham Young taught that the number of Gods and worlds is uncountable (Discourses of Brigham Young, 22). The LDS Church occupies itself with only the one (or three?) Gods of this world and leave it to inhabitants of other universes to worship and obey their respective Gods.

As for the Genesis citation, no Jewish or Christian commentator sees the least hint of polytheism in the use of the plurals “us” and “our.” While the Hebrew word for God, Elohim, is in plural form, and therefore must be replaced by plural pronouns, the rest of the passage is in the singular: “God created (singular verb) man in his own image.” Various interpretations are consistent with the biblical revelation of monotheism. For example, the Lord may have simply used the “plural of majesty”-rather like a monarch and, until recently, the pope, who often referred to himself as “we.” Or God may have been addressing his heavenly court of angels, who also possessed the image of God in that they were rational beings endowed with knowledge, will, and immortal life. Further, Christians may comfortably conclude the Father was indeed communicating with the Son and the Holy Spirit, who, as mighty God, exist dynamic and creative from all eternity.

Paul did not teach a plurality of Lords and Gods. He merely commented that there are entities that are called gods. Whether he was referring to the crass idols of Zeus or Hermes, or craftier masters such as greed and pride, he-and we-know that men have created and will continue to create other gods and lords, displacing the one true God. We do not merely limit our adoration and service to one God among millions; we don’t, in fact, know of any other God.

You can help the Mormon see the fallacy of multiple infinite beings. While not explicitly presented in the Bible, the doctrine of the Trinity is imbedded in Scripture’s insistence on one only God and its clear teaching that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are persons possessing equal majesty, power, and lordship. They are not united solely in purpose or will, as Mormons assert, but in very being. Read Isaiah 42-45 to find crystallized the ancient Hebrew belief in one God. Christ and his followers confirm monotheism in John 17:3, 1 Corinthians 8:4, Galatians 3:20, and Ephesians 4:6. The Son is called God throughout Christian scripture. See John 20:28 and Hebrews 1:8. Similarly, the Holy Spirit is confessed as God in Acts 5:3-4 and 2 Corinthians 3:17. If the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, yet there is only one God, then only the truth revealed in the Blessed Trinity can explain Scripture’s doctrines.

3. A man can become God.

He can’t become God of this world, mind you, since that position is already filled. But a man who lives as a faithful Mormon in this life, fulfilling all obligations imposed on him by the LDS Church, may progress to godhood in the next life. He will be given his own world to populate and rule, together with his heavenly wife or wives (including, usually, his own earthly Mormon spouse).

Spencer W. Kimball, Mormon prophet during the 1980s, declared to a group of male college students: “Each one of you has it within the realm of possibility to develop a kingdom over which you will preside as its king and God. You will need to develop yourself and grow in ability and power and worthiness to govern such a world with all of its people” (Doctrines of the Gospel Student Manual, 29). So, having achieved divinity, a man will do for his own creation all that the Heavenly Father has done for him. In turn, he will be worshiped as God by the children he procreates, just as he now adores and obeys God the Father.

Because Mormons see God as an advanced and perfected man, they conclude that their members enjoy a similar progression. They confuse Christ’s admonition to “be perfect” (Matt. 5:48) with “become a God.” In fact, since there is but one God, man’s perfection lies in becoming fully conformed to the divine image in which Adam was created. He is to become a perfect man, aided by the grace brought by the Second Adam, Jesus Christ.

Try to get Latter-day Saints to see that an earthly parent-child analogy cannot apply to our relationship with the Lord. An earthly father’s task is to raise his son to become self-supporting and independent, autonomous in his decisions. It is not so between God and us. We’ll never achieve his status; we’ll never grow apart from him; we’ll always need him. Yes, we shall enjoy fully his communicable attributes of eternal life, love, and goodness. Like a bar of iron, we’ll glow with divine fire (2 Pet. 1:4.) The boundaries between perfect humanity and divine glory may appear blurred. But they won’t be eliminated. We’ll always be his perfected children, never his equal.

When pushed, Mormons will say we can never achieve God’s status, and we’ll never be equal to him. But that’s just an attempt to soften the offense of this doctrine. What they mean is, since the present God has a long head start, we’ll never catch up to him in power and glory. He advances as we do. But a Mormon man, once on the path of progression, may one day arrive at the level God is at now. Then his own sons, becoming Gods in their turn, will push him even further along, into the eternities.

4. Jesus Christ: half-God, half-man.

According to a text published by the LDS Church for use by college-age students, Jesus Christ was “the only man born to this earth half-divine and half-mortal” (The Life and Teachings of Jesus and His Apostles, 10). Mormonism teaches that matter is eternal. That which we call “spirit” is really just highly refined matter. Therefore, God didn’t create from nothing; He merely “organized” pre-existent matter. This includes the “spirit” form of his Son, Jesus Christ, whom the Heavenly Father and one of his heavenly wives created as their first-born. (Lucifer and his minions, together with every other person, were similarly conceived in the heavens, thus making us all Christ’s junior brothers and sisters.)

Two thousand years ago, the Heavenly Father looked with favor upon his daughter, the Virgin Mary. He visited her in his flesh-and-bones male body and had sexual intercourse with her. The result was Jesus Christ in his mortal body. Since Mormons say they believe Mary was a virgin when she conceived her son, LDS theologians have had to redefine the definition of “virgin.” They say a virgin is a woman who has not had sex with a mortal man; since God the Father was by then an immortal man, no loss of virginity occurred, though “normal and natural” intercourse took place (Bruce R. McConkie, The Mortal Messiah, vol. 1, 314; Mormon Doctrine, 546-547). An early Mormon apostle taught that God the Father and Mary were “associated together in the capacity of husband and wife” (Orson Pratt, The Seer, 158-159).

Many Latter-day Saints believe Christ was married and had children. Because marriage is the only way a man can become a God in the next life, should not the Lord have taken a wife (or wives) and shown us how to live worthily? Since the blessings of marriage are crowned by the birth of children, Christ is said to have had several. While such notions were taught openly during the Mormon presidencies of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, the current membership is cautioned not to throw such spiritual pearls before scoffing swine. (See apostle Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses 2:210 and 4:259-260; also, president Jedediah M. Grant, Journal of Discourses 1:346.)

Latter-day Saints will not worship Christ. They are forbidden to pray to him. All prayer is directed to the Father only, in the name of the Son. Because they don’t understand the true nature and persons of God, Mormons confuse the divine and human natures of his Son. For them, Christ must be a lesser God, since he (and the Holy Ghost) were formed by the Father and are subjected to him in all things. Though now Gods, Christ and the Holy Spirit became Gods later than did Heavenly Father and are totally dependent upon him who created them.

Biblical verses supporting the Holy Trinity and the full deity of the three persons are also useful here, to establish that Christ is mighty God from all eternity. He accepted and expects adoration. He received Thomas’s worshipful phrase, “My Lord and my God” (John 20:28) without demurral; see also Matthew 2:11 and 28:9, 17; John 9:38; and Revelation 5:14.

Keep in mind that Mormons maintain these doctrines are part of the truth revealed by God in every age to his Church. Abraham, Moses, Isaiah, and all the prophets knew and taught God had a physical body, knew and taught a plurality of Gods, knew and taught that men can evolve into Gods, and knew and taught a subordinate Christ. The same is true for the first apostles chosen by Christ two thousand years ago. Such glorious doctrines were lost, the Mormon Church declares, because the Catholic Church, after having replaced the true Church of Christ, removed many “plain and precious” truths from the scriptures. The world was thus enthralled in the blackness of apostasy until the Lord restored all these teachings to Joseph Smith in 1830.

5. In the Mormon Temple, God gives men all the secrets necessary for salvation.

It is in their temples, Latter-day Saints are told, where the full purity of these restored teachings is revealed. The temple ceremonies, written by Joseph Smith soon after he became a Freemason and containing many Masonic parallels, are said to replicate the rituals performed in the temples of Solomon and Herod.

Only those worthy to enter the temple may return to God after death. About twenty percent of Mormons hold “recommends,” cards permitting them entrance to the temple where the secret ceremonies are performed. The so-called “restored” gospel teachings presented above are emphasized visually in a video. I’ve been through the “endowment” ritual several times. It takes about ninety minutes. The words and actions never vary. The temple patron hears the Gods’ plan for creating the world and mankind. The patron makes “covenants” with the Lord to support the Mormon Church in every way he can. He promises not to speak critically of Mormon leaders and to avoid loud laughter. He promises to live a righteous and faithful life.

Throughout the presentation, the patrons are taught special “signs” and “tokens” consisting of various arm gestures and handc.asps, each having sacred names. Participants also don special clothing and head coverings during the endowment.

Temple attendance is obligatory for ultimate salvation. Even if you live a good, holy, Mormon life, assenting to its doctrines and participating in church activities, after death you cannot enter the presence of God without giving him the same signs and tokens and code names learned in the temple. Since to speak of these outside of the temple walls is forbidden, those who desire eternal life must pay the price to enter the temple. (”Pay the price” is not restricted to cash contributions, though to be temple-worthy you must give the church ten percent of your income, plus additional offerings.)

While a Mormon, I lived a life worthy of the temple. I tried hard to be prepared, praying and often fasting before attending an endowment session. But never did I “feel” the promised “Spirit of the Lord” within its walls or during its banal ceremonies. They were rote, repetitious, lifeless, and even silly. (Some Fundamentalist detractors pretend to uncover bizarre satanic or sexual overtones to the temple rituals. Nothing is further from the truth. Since being purged in 1990 of most anti-Catholic references and threats of disembowelment for revealing their secrets, the temple ordinances are now rather bland and-except for their theology-inoffensive.)

God doesn’t appear to be the focus of temple work. There is practically no prayer as such. Each patron is required to listen to the instructions, learn the signs and names, and repeat them accurately. Since the teachings, signs, and gestures never vary, the ceremony becomes quickly familiar. Those who attend do so in the belief that their performance here will enable those who were not Mormons on earth the chance to become saints in “spirit prison.” Some Mormons even boast of going through three or four sessions a day and thus “saving” three or four dead friends or relatives.

The Mormons who come knocking on your door need to know that God is Lord of all. He has revealed himself fully in his Son (Heb. 1:2), who himself charged his apostles to preach the gospel until the end of time (Luke 10:16; 2 Tim. 2:2; 4:2-4). He does not hide himself from his people, but desires they all be saved. He taught the truth openly (Matt. 26:55, John 8:2) and founded a Church to hand it down to every generation (2 Thes. 2:15, 3:16).

There’s no need for temples to teach us the secret way to salvation. That path was made clear by Christ, the light of the world, and is in every age illuminated by his body, the Catholic Church. Christ’s promises of power and permanence, once made, are irrevocable. (See Matthew 16:18, 28:20; John 14:16, 26; 16:13; Eph. 5:29.) The Church has preserved the purity of Christian faith and life. No “former” truths need be “restored” and secretly “revealed.”

Mormonism attracts largely by holding back its offensive doctrines and leading instead with its strong suit of family values and patriotic devotion. But “There is a way which seems right to a man, but its end is the way to death” (Prov. 14:12). See also 2 Corinthians 11:14: “Even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.” The “good fruit” of Mormonism is poisoned by counterfeit theology.

Isaiah Bennett, a former Catholic priest who converted to Mormonism and re-converted back to Catholicism, is the author of the new book Inside Mormonism (Catholic Answers, 1999).


18 posted on 10/30/2010 10:52:54 AM PDT by johngrace (God so loved the world so he gave his only son! Praise Jesus and Hail Mary!)
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To: Paragon Defender

Paragon [Non-] Defender wrote... [clarifications and full mormon disclosure added in brackets. They should reveal the full truth, don’t you think?]...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

“Seekers of truth [that should be a red flag anytime it is written by someone wearing magic underwear],

If you peruse the Free Republic religion forums you will notice a pattern.

There’s an anti-Mormon [former mormons who left the cult and now are Christians] group of people here that spends [devotes] a great deal of their time attacking [revealing the truth they learned about] the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints [the cult known commonly as “mormons”].

They post regurgitated propaganda [From our own mormon church official sources!!! When they do it, it’s propaganda. When I do it, it is official doctrine.] on an almost daily basis [actually, they do it throughout the day - that’s how much they care!].

They have a misguided obsession [understand that as I write this, I am wearing magic mormon underwear, which can be tight and tend to ride up into the crotch, so pardon my frustrations with this and my emotional language - it’s the magic underwear talking].

You can witness many different tactics employed that you might find quite interesting. The straw man argument [used primarily by myself and other mormons] is a big favorite and is frequently preceded by cherry-picking quotes or other material [we mormons like to cherry pick from the Bible in order to appear Christian, but it’s OK when we do it!]. After the “quotation” the [mormon] attacker will misrepresent what has been said or what was meant and then attack [our own fake strawman].

Another [of our] favorites is posting scripture or statements which on their own really present no dilemma.

They [we] make something out of nothing [of course, I acknowledge mormonism is made up out of whole cloth and pretty crazy! Really, where can you find millions of gods in the Bible?!!] while never bringing up a single objection that hasn’t been addressed a hundred times before [of course we claim to “address it” - we can’t claim we actually answered it, since we have no facts, evidence or logic to back us up. We “address it”].

Sometimes they cruise the headlines of the day [I know this because I have X-Ray vision and can see into their homes. I watch them all, closely, vigilantly and stalk their computers] seeking any story that might be twisted into making the Church [by “Church” I mean the cult, but Church sounds more mainstream] look bad. Anything will do, just watch the progression of posts following it and see what I mean [dang, my magic underwear is getting a bit tight-sorry].

You might note a couple of other tactics used to try to antagonize is the use of disrespectful [like referring to our founding prophet Joe Smith by terms that describe his actions] or insulting terms or language and/or pictures [this could be anything at any time]. That’s a Christlike [here, I should be fair and tell you that when we use the name Christ, we don’t mean the eternal second person of hte Godhead. We mean a created spirit being who later became a god, like all mormon gods - sorry for the confusion] thing to do right? Yeah I don’t think so either. It does speak volumes about them though [their stupid obsession with truth and pointing out the flaws of our prophet gnaws at me].

After reading their posts, I invite you to seek the truth about whatever “issue” they seem to be “revealing” or “exposing”. I promise that if you do so with honest intent, the “ahah” moments you will have will be many and frequent [many, for instance, say, “AHAH! Now I understand why those former mormons want to spread the truth of mormonism! What a wacked out religion!”].

You will start to recognize the tactics employed [by mormons] to cleverly twist and attack and will likely chuckle the more you see [I chuckle quite a bit as I fail to ever answer any and every question! Heh, heh!]. In actuality, there’s nothing new here. It’s all been addressed [but of course, not “answered”] many times before.

Here’s a few links to get your started from a different viewpoint [no doubt our young cultic missionaries have visited your home to tell you why your own church is a false church]. I have found that the vast majority of the “issues” brought up can be found and “addressed” [but of course not answered, since we don’t do that at mormon links... but really, you will get more objective answers at the non-mormon links] below [for some reason, they like to actually provide facts and evidence and logical argument to demonstrate the falsehood of mormonism - drats!!!]:

http://www.irr.org/mit/default.html
http://www.exmormonsforjesus.org/
http://4mormon.org/ex-mormon.php
http://www.exmormon.org/
http://www.mormoncurtain.com/

Now you will likely notice the “you never address our points” posts pop up as usual [we try our best to never actually ANSWER, but we do address them by posting links!].

All after providing the answers just as you have here [of course, these “answers” aren’t filled with any facts or evidence or logic - they are just our way of avoiding difficult issues until we have you hooked in our cult]. Will you wear blinders too [why not switch to wearing magic underwear! Don’t leave home without it.]? Seek truth. Find out for yourself [and don’t listen to me].

[One more thing...

PLEASE NEVER ASK ME A QUESTION!!! In all likelihood, you are too ignorant to get a real answer. We save the “meat” for when you have already joined the cult!

In particular, please do not ask questions about:

1. Millions or billions of mormon gods
2. How you can also become a mormon god!
3. Celestial sex between the gods
4. Mormon Jesus being created just like people or Satan
5. What the Holy Spirit (also created) did that was naughty
6. Magic underwear!
7. Heavenly Mother and our goddess harem breeding program - it’s not something we want to talk about anyway.
8. Our working our way to one of the three mormom heavens.

Really, any question. They have already been “addressed”

I post links that “address things”, but I never personally
answer a question. That would involve thought. It is much easier and cleaner to just post the official links to the cult headquarters.]

I witness to you [that sounds so much more powerful than saying I posted this at FreeRepublic] of these truths [here, truth, is of course, relative] and wish you the best, in the name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ [and of course, I don’t mean the Christian Christ of the Bible, but you probably knew that]. Amen.


19 posted on 10/30/2010 11:07:53 AM PDT by aMorePerfectUnion
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To: Paragon Defender

I guess you’re saying - don’t pay any attention to the documented words and actions of our founders and early prophets, just listen to the spin we put on it now. Only see what we WANT you to see.


20 posted on 10/30/2010 11:20:15 AM PDT by T Minus Four (Instead of pretending to BE Christians, why not actually BECOME Christians?)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion; T Minus Four; johngrace
Ok, guys it is not fair to use the words of lds and point out links to the information about lds on these religion forums, it really irritates lds that their beliefs are exposed for the world to see.
21 posted on 10/30/2010 5:57:25 PM PDT by svcw (Legalism is enforced revelation)
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To: Colofornian
Happy Halloween!
22 posted on 10/31/2010 4:16:39 PM PDT by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: svcw
 
If you let them in, you’ve invited them to begin the process of “discussions,”
 six canned lessons they’ve been trained to deliver, leading, ideally,
 to your baptism into the Mormon Church.



 
 
Professor Robert Millet       
teaching at the Mission Prep Club in 2004  
http://newsnet.byu.edu/video/18773/  <-- Complete and uneditted

 
 
Timeline...    Subject...
 
0:59            "Anti-Mormons..."
1:16            "ATTACK the faith you have..."
2:02           "We really aren't obligated to answer everyone's questions..."
3:57           "You already know MORE about God and Christ and the plan of salvation than any who would ATTACK you."


23 posted on 10/31/2010 4:21:17 PM PDT by Elsie ( Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

A Hallowed Hallowevenin’ to you!!!


24 posted on 10/31/2010 4:42:37 PM PDT by Colofornian ("So how do LDS deal with the [Adam-God] phenomenon? WE DON'T; WE SIMPLY SET IT ASIDE" - BYU prof)
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To: Elsie
Happy Halloween done Pictures, Images and Photos
25 posted on 10/31/2010 4:49:55 PM PDT by svcw (Legalism is enforced revelation)
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