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In Christ Alone (Happy reformation day)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExnTlIM5QgE ^ | Getty, Julian Keith; Townend, Stuart Richard;

Posted on 10/31/2010 11:59:22 AM PDT by RnMomof7

In Christ Alone lyrics

Songwriters: Getty, Julian Keith; Townend, Stuart Richard;

In Christ alone my hope is found He is my light, my strength, my song This Cornerstone, this solid ground Firm through the fiercest drought and storm

What heights of love, what depths of peace When fears are stilled, when strivings cease My Comforter, my All in All Here in the love of Christ I stand

In Christ alone, who took on flesh Fullness of God in helpless Babe This gift of love and righteousness Scorned by the ones He came to save

?Til on that cross as Jesus died The wrath of God was satisfied For every sin on Him was laid Here in the death of Christ I live, I live

There in the ground His body lay Light of the world by darkness slain Then bursting forth in glorious Day Up from the grave He rose again

And as He stands in victory Sin?s curse has lost its grip on me For I am His and He is mine Bought with the precious blood of Christ


TOPICS: Prayer; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: reformation; savedbygrace
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To: Kolokotronis; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; caww; ...
2 Timothy 3

1But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. 2For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, 4treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people. 6For among them are those who creep into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and led astray by various passions, 7always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth. 8Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men corrupted in mind and disqualified regarding the faith. 9But they will not get very far, for their folly will be plain to all, as was that of those two men.

10 You, however, have followed my teaching, my conduct, my aim in life, my faith, my patience, my love, my steadfastness, 11my persecutions and sufferings that happened to me at Antioch, at Iconium, and at Lystra—which persecutions I endured; yet from them all the Lord rescued me. 12Indeed, all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted,13while evil people and impostors will go on from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. 14But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it 15and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.

Catholics are great with their convoluted explanations, tradition based theology, and labels that they like to slap on everyone to pigeon hole them, but are oblivious to the actual truth of Scripture.

Catholics just need to get to the beautiful simplicity of the gospel message and throw off the chains of tradition and convoluted ceremonies and sacraments that make getting to God far more complicated that it is, and that He intended it to be.

Catholicism puts people into bondage to a God who is never satisfied with their efforts. The best the majority of Catholics can hope for is an extended stay in the torment of purgatory. Some God they serve. One who would torment people for their sins after telling them He died for them to be forgiven.

Grace and mercy and forgiveness are gifts freely given by a God of love. Any god who demands payment for those sins, hasn't forgiven them. Requiring payment negates grace and mercy.

The wages of sin is death. That's all we can ever earn for what we do.

5,851 posted on 12/26/2010 12:45:24 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Kolokotronis; count-your-change
Maybe because the "translations" of the Gospels you are reading are nonsense. At least the The Church understands, and even prays in, Greek.

Not the Roman Catholic church.

Are you saying that they are NOT The Church, then?

Is the Orthodox one the only true one since it understands and prays in Greek?

5,852 posted on 12/26/2010 12:47:55 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: metmom; count-your-change; annalex
"Not the Roman Catholic church."

Well, as unaccustomed as I am to defending the Latins, as a matter of fact, there are portions of their Mass which are in Greek and prior to the promulgation of the Latin Mass centuries ago, the Liturgies in Rome were chanted in Greek. In fact, they were nearly the same in form as ours are today. In the early Church at Rome, the language was Greek. The Roman Church learned its most basic theology in Greek, mm. Latin, Rome's theological language, isn't Greek, nor is it Slavonic, but it does come a close third when it comes to a theological language. In fact, though, Greek is the liturgical language of a number of particular churches whose hierarchs are in communion with the Pope of Rome.

"Are you saying that they are NOT The Church, then?"

Not at all. The Church of Rome is very much a part of The Church. The fullness of The Church is found in every single Roman Church diocese, just as it is in my Orthodox metropolis.

"Is the Orthodox one the only true one since it understands and prays in Greek?"

I don't know if Holy Orthodoxy is the "only true one" praying in Greek or not. These matters are up to God. That said, we do pray,

"We have seen the true light; we have received the heavenly Spirit; we have found the true faith, worshiping the undivided Trinity, for the Trinity has saved us."

but we pray this because we believe we do have the True Faith. We don't know everywhere it can be found, though we generally can say where it is not found. Forming a theology based on very bad translations of Scriptures probably will lead to one of those situations where the True Faith is not found, at least not in anything approaching its fullness.

5,853 posted on 12/26/2010 1:29:04 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated)
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To: metmom

I assume you mean Catholics of the Roman variety?


5,854 posted on 12/26/2010 1:31:01 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated)
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To: metmom

“Catholicism puts people into bondage to a God who is never satisfied with their efforts.”

Worth repeating.


5,855 posted on 12/26/2010 1:31:47 PM PST by bonfire
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To: annalex; OLD REGGIE; RnMomof7; metmom
The reference is the water of baptism.

No, there is no mention of dunking in water at all. Jesus never baptized anybody but his disciples did and they were nowhere around, however, in this passage Jesus is speaking to a Samaritan woman, they were at the well and he definitely spoke about drinking this water he would give.

John 4:14
But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

5,856 posted on 12/26/2010 1:48:08 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to him.)
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To: metmom
To reject that mercy and grace given freely as a gift by insisting on paying for it or earning it, is to spit in God's face and tell Him that what He's done is not good enough- that humans can add their puny little efforts to somehow satisfy God's justice.

Amen! Hallelujah and praise the Lord that he looked beyond our faults and saw our need!

5,857 posted on 12/26/2010 2:10:38 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to him.)
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To: kosta50; stfassisi; Kolokotronis; MarkBsnr; metmom; OLD REGGIE; maryz
But, that's only for those who want to know. Those who are "comfortable in their belief," as boatbums says, will believe what they want to believe and there is, as she says, comfort in it. I am different. If I only sought comfort in belief, then I would still believe in a Tooth Fairy, I guess.
There is much to the wisdom of the old adage: Ignorance is bliss.

I never said anything about being "comfortable" in belief, I said confidence. Sure, there are millions who are comfortable in whatever religious system they were brought up in. They never think to question anything because, for many, they really don't care that much to seek out the truth, it isn't that important to them or they are too intimidated to question. On the other hand, many people (me, for instance) have a deep, intuitive sense that what they have been told all their lives needs to be confirmed so that they are not just comfortable, but confident in what they believe. It's the confidence in knowing not only what but why we believe what we do.

5,858 posted on 12/26/2010 2:34:39 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to him.)
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To: metmom; Kolokotronis

” At least the The Church understands, and even prays in, Greek.”

And this is significant how, I wonder.


5,859 posted on 12/26/2010 2:43:13 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: metmom

VERY WELL and BIblically put.

THX THX.


5,860 posted on 12/26/2010 2:55:27 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Kolokotronis; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; caww; ...
Forming a theology based on very bad translations of Scriptures probably will lead to one of those situations where the True Faith is not found, at least not in anything approaching its fullness.

You mean like the Catholic Bible which deliberately mistranslates passages like Genesis 3:15 where the translators replaced the personal pronoun *he* in the Hebrew to *she* to support their idolatrous doctrines of Mary?

Or perhaps 2 Corinthians 7:10 where the Catholic Bible mistranslates the word "metanoian" as *penance* instead of the correct *repentance*?

You need to be telling this to the Catholic contingent. They're the ones who dismiss the importance of Scripture to begin with in favor of tradition and then work with the translation of a translation. (Greek to Latin to English).

What do you consider *true faith* and how do you determine if you have it?

5,861 posted on 12/26/2010 2:57:16 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Kolokotronis

For the most part....


5,862 posted on 12/26/2010 2:58:19 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: metmom

“Is the Orthodox one the only true one since it understands and prays in Greek?”

In Greece it is, it being the state church. Proselyting for any other religion can bring arrest and jail.

All in the name of Christ though, you see.


5,863 posted on 12/26/2010 3:08:33 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: metmom

INDEED.

Excellent points.


5,864 posted on 12/26/2010 3:13:48 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: boatbums; annalex; RnMomof7; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; caww; ...
annalex: The reference is the water of baptism.

bb: No, there is no mention of dunking in water at all. Jesus never baptized anybody but his disciples did and they were nowhere around, however, in this passage Jesus is speaking to a Samaritan woman, they were at the well and he definitely spoke about drinking this water he would give.

John 4:14
But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

Which is it now, I wonder? Is it drinking water that brings life or drinking blood?

Perhaps some Catholic can enlighten us to this apparent contradiction of the very words of Jesus Himself?

5,865 posted on 12/26/2010 3:33:27 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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ph


5,866 posted on 12/26/2010 3:35:19 PM PST by xone
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To: annalex; count-your-change; Quix; caww

Yes, you rephrase what I was saying correctly. If you don't believe the Church in her historical knowledge, why do you believe the Gospel?

If you are asking me rather than the person you quote, i have already answered it this vain argument, only to see it repeated. To reiterate, your premise is that since Rome gave us the Bible and its gospel, then we are bound to believe her interpretation of history However, this assertion is fallacious on different levels, but the short version is that Rome's basis for her formulaic (scope and content-based) assuredly infallible magisterium (AIM), -by which she declares her interpretation of history, tradition and Scripture to be infallible - is herself, while the only assuredly infallible objective authority are the Scriptures, which reproves her. We are no more bound to implicitly accept whatever Rome declare must be, than the Lord and disciples had to accept binding teachings of the Jewish magisterium, but should be like the noble Berean and examine it in the light of the assuredly infallible word. And my next to last post to you dealt with the interpretative necessity both Roman Catholics and Protestants must deal with.

Extended:


5,867 posted on 12/26/2010 3:55:04 PM PST by daniel1212 ( "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out," Acts 3:19)
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To: daniel1212

ABSOLUTELY INDEED.

WELL PUT.

THX.


5,868 posted on 12/26/2010 4:23:50 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: annalex; count-your-change; daniel1212; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; ...
Yes, you rephrase what I was saying correctly. If you don't believe the Church in her historical knowledge, why do you believe the Gospel?

Compiling the various writings of Scripture into one convenient, easily accessed document, while an admirable endeavor indeed, does not equate to the Roman Catholic church *writing* the Bible.

The entirety of the OT was recognized as Scripture long before the RCC came along. Jesus Himself quoted from it and referred to it as Scripture.

The Catholic church can make NO claim whatsoever of the authorship of the majority of the Bible.

And the argument that the Catholic church uses that it claims that all the writers of the NT were Catholics, therefore the Catholic church *wrote* the Bible is just ludicrous. Maybe Catholics can be duped into believing that line of *reasoning* (for lack of a better term) but not anyone who can think for themselves. Claiming that the writers of Scripture were by default Catholics is only a tactic used to justify the Catholic church's power grab and put its claimed authority in spiritual matters beyond contention.

Since there is precious little in the NT that even begins to resemble what the Catholic church is today and has been for most of history, that claim is empty. The Catholic church needs to massively twist precious few verses of Scripture to support itself, something which should be an immediate red flag to the veracity of their claims.

The writers of the NT made no claim to Catholicism or any allegiance to any denomination. And no one can legitimately claim ownership of them as their own after the fact.

5,869 posted on 12/26/2010 4:47:49 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: metmom

***The Catholic church can make NO claim whatsoever of the authorship of the majority of the Bible.***

Oh but that doesn’t stop them from trying, now does it?


5,870 posted on 12/26/2010 4:56:00 PM PST by Gamecock (The resurrection of Jesus Christ is both historically credible and existentially satisfying. T.K.)
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To: metmom

INDEED.

WELL PUT.

THX.


5,871 posted on 12/26/2010 5:05:26 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Gamecock

No, it certainly doesn’t.

Even when Scripture itself says otherwise.

But they never let that stop them before.


5,872 posted on 12/26/2010 5:25:51 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: boatbums; stfassisi; Kolokotronis; MarkBsnr; metmom; OLD REGGIE; maryz
I never said anything about being "comfortable" in belief, I said confidenence

I'm sorry. Please replace all instances where I said comfortable with confident. I really don't see how that chances what I said.

On the other hand, many people (me, for instance) have a deep, intuitive sense that what they have been told all their lives needs to be confirmed so that they are not just comfortable, but confident in what they believe

Usually when something is confirmed it is no longer just believed but known. I can say that I believe (statistically) that there is a very good chance the sun will come up tomorrow, but I don't know that for a fact. In short, I hope I am right, but I can't be one hundred percent confident. What is your percentage and how do you determine that? How much does one have to believe to walk on water?

5,873 posted on 12/26/2010 5:44:05 PM PST by kosta50 (God is tired of repenting -- Jeremiah 15:6, KJV)
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To: kosta50

chances=chnages


5,874 posted on 12/26/2010 5:44:32 PM PST by kosta50 (God is tired of repenting -- Jeremiah 15:6, KJV)
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To: kosta50

let’s try this again: chnages=changes... ;) You know what I meant.


5,875 posted on 12/26/2010 5:45:42 PM PST by kosta50 (God is tired of repenting -- Jeremiah 15:6, KJV)
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To: metmom; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; caww
You mean like the Catholic Bible which deliberately mistranslates passages like Genesis 3:15 where the translators replaced the personal pronoun *he* in the Hebrew to *she* to support their idolatrous doctrines of Mary?"

Well, here's Genesis 3:15 from the Septuagint. Which pronoun do you mean? There's no "he" or "she" there, mm, at least in the Greek.

καὶ ἔχθραν θήσω ἀνὰ μέσον σου καὶ ἀνὰ μέσον τῆς γυναικὸς καὶ ἀνὰ μέσον τοῦ σπέρματός σου καὶ ἀνὰ μέσον τοῦ σπέρματος αὐτῆς αὐτός σου τηρήσει κεφαλήν καὶ σὺ τηρήσεις αὐτοῦ πτέρναν "

"Or perhaps 2 Corinthians 7:10 where the Catholic Bible mistranslates the word "metanoian" as *penance* instead of the correct *repentance*?"

If it says "penance", then you are correct. The translation is wrong. It means repentance, but in the sense of a fundamental change in the way one thinks from a bad way to a good way.

What do you consider *true faith* and how do you determine if you have it?"

Orthodox Christianity, of course. As for determining if I have it, well, for me it's sort of genetic. I guess I just "know" it. I can see it in others when they demonstrate an Orthodox phronema in the way the live their lives and an Orthodox praxis in the way they worship. There may be others. I don't know.

5,876 posted on 12/26/2010 5:49:52 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated)
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To: metmom; annalex; boatbums; RnMomof7; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; caww
John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

Which is it now, I wonder? Is it drinking water that brings life or drinking blood?

John 6:54
"He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.

Looks like John couldn't make up his mind...or was it really John?

5,877 posted on 12/26/2010 5:51:41 PM PST by kosta50 (God is tired of repenting -- Jeremiah 15:6, KJV)
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To: count-your-change; metmom
"And this is significant how, I wonder."

Assuming we have any confidence at all that the Gospels and Epistles we have as the canon of the NT are speaking to us of real event, (I do by the way)then it's because we have the nearest thing to what the writers actually wrote instead of made up nonsense from the 19th and 20th Protestant West written to advance a 500 year old heretical agenda.

5,878 posted on 12/26/2010 5:56:56 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated)
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To: Kolokotronis

You have no manuscripts that are not available to everyone else so “ the nearest thing to what the writers actually wrote” is available to all translators.

If you wish to argue with the how of translation that’s another matter but speaking Greek provides you with no special theological insight on the meaning of the Scriptures.


5,879 posted on 12/26/2010 6:34:08 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: MarkBsnr; stfassisi; Kolokotronis; metmom; OLD REGGIE; boatbums; maryz
Since the whole Christian system of theology and Scripture is manmade (with the assistance of the Holy Spirit, we believe), does that make it any less true?

Muslims could ask the same thing about their theology. One's belief in something doesn't render it either true or false. The veracity or falsity of something is not determined by one's belief either way,  no matter how confident or comfortable one may be with it.

If God exists, does our own failures and shortcomings in description of Him, negate Him?

Does a novel prove that the story is true?

5,880 posted on 12/26/2010 6:38:33 PM PST by kosta50 (God is tired of repenting -- Jeremiah 15:6, KJV)
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To: metmom

“Since there is precious little in the NT that even begins to resemble what the Catholic church is today and has been for most of history, that claim is empty.”

The same could be said of the Greek Orthodox Church. What resemblance to the simple and understandable message of the Gospels can be found there?


5,881 posted on 12/26/2010 6:57:17 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: metmom; Kolokotronis; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; caww
You mean like the Catholic Bible which deliberately mistranslates passages like Genesis 3:15 where the translators replaced the personal pronoun *he* in the Hebrew to *she* to support their idolatrous doctrines of Mary

Which "he"?

Or perhaps 2 Corinthians 7:10 where the Catholic Bible mistranslates the word "metanoian" as *penance* instead of the correct *repentance*?

The NASB, which is the Bible version on the Vatican site, reads:

"For the sorrow that is according to the will of God produces a repentance without regret, leading to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death."

The Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible says "penence," as does the Old Vulgate (pœnitentiam), but the New Jerusalem and the New Revised Standard Veriosn say "repentance."

Since the D-R is a 16th century English translation of the Old Vulgate, the error was in the Vulgate and it wouldn't be the first one. Numeorus errors form the Vulgate were incorporated into the Textus Receptus and from there into the KJV and other Protestant Bibles.

5,882 posted on 12/26/2010 7:08:34 PM PST by kosta50 (God is tired of repenting -- Jeremiah 15:6, KJV)
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To: kosta50; Kolokotronis; MarkBsnr; metmom; OLD REGGIE; boatbums; maryz

Kosta-””Also important is being familiar with the works of the Alexandrian Jewish philosopher by the name of Philo, who had a tremendous influence in the struggling Christian thought in the latter part of the 1st century, etc. He is the first to compare the logos ontologically to the OT God by about 45 AD. He is the one who introduced the divine or uncreated energies concept which are so prominent, actually essential in the Eastern Christian dogma of salvation, officially codified as the Palamite Doctrine, the official theology of the Eastern Orthodox Church since the 14th century.””

I read some of this awhile back. What do you and Kolo think of these sources?

http://www.sas.upenn.edu/religious_studies/rak/courses/999/philo.htm

http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/rak//courses/999/RYLE1.htm

“”It’s almost impossible to fully understand John’s Gospel without the context of the Greek mind set of the time and where Christianity was.””

I agree and think we have to view all scripture with this mind set

Kosta-””Those who are “comfortable in their belief,” as boatbums says, will believe what they want to believe and there is, as she says, comfort in it. I am different. If I only sought comfort in belief, then I would still believe in a Tooth Fairy, I guess.””

I understand Christianity as something that makes us struggle against our own selfishness and the battle to let go of ourselves even if it means pain because if we are to imitate Christ we must embrace crosses in our lives not just for our own damage done by our sins,but be willing to suffer for those who have offended Christ in hope that God will have mercy on them as well .

In other words, this is true love for fellow man as I see it.

Christianity to me is not easy,it costs us something.


5,883 posted on 12/26/2010 7:11:30 PM PST by stfassisi ((The greatest gift God gives us is that of overcoming self"-St Francis Assisi)))
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To: Kolokotronis; metmom
Assuming we have any confidence at all that the Gospels and Epistles we have as the canon of the NT are speaking to us of real event, (I do by the way)then it's because we have the nearest thing to what the writers actually wrote instead of made up nonsense from the 19th and 20th Protestant West written to advance a 500 year old heretical agenda.

The Jews say pretty much the same thing with regard the Christian interpretation of the Old Testament, Kolo mou. They insist that without knowing the Oral Torah, one cannot properly interpret the Written Torah.

5,884 posted on 12/26/2010 7:23:22 PM PST by kosta50 (God is tired of repenting -- Jeremiah 15:6, KJV)
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To: count-your-change
"“ the nearest thing to what the writers actually wrote” is available to all translators."

Absolutely. My people have preserved it. I have no problem with honest, correct translations, faithful to the original insofar as is possible in languages like English and German. I will not accept, however, the work of propagandists and liars.

"If you wish to argue with the how of translation that’s another matter but speaking Greek provides you with no special theological insight on the meaning of the Scriptures."

Of course it does. I can read the words as they were alleged to have been written...and I understand the words within the context they were written.

5,885 posted on 12/26/2010 7:37:05 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated)
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To: kosta50; metmom
"They insist that without knowing the Oral Torah, one cannot properly interpret the Written Torah."

They may well be right, Kosta mou. That in fact is one of the many reasons I tend to stay away from the OT and what it means.

5,886 posted on 12/26/2010 7:39:07 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated)
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To: count-your-change; metmom
"What resemblance to the simple and understandable message of the Gospels can be found there?"

For starters, the Real Presence....Oh, wait, the simple and understandable message of the Gospels most American Protestants read leads to a "theology" which teaches that the Real Presence must be a filthy papist trick because, well, God couldn't be in two places at once! Sorry, the profundity of that soteriology is so far beyond the ability of this simple grandson of simple Greek peasants.

5,887 posted on 12/26/2010 7:47:02 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated)
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To: kosta50; metmom; annalex; RnMomof7; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; caww
Looks like John couldn't make up his mind...or was it really John?

Looks like John was quoting Jesus so your confusion should be with his words and not the one who wrote down his words.

My point, and I believe Metmom's as well, is that Jesus used many metaphors to express his teachings. He refers to himself as a door of the sheepfold and the shepherd of the sheep. He is the way, the truth and the life and one who will make others "fishers of men". He's the Son of Man and the Son of God. He asks for all to come to him and says his "yoke" is easy and his "burden" is light. He says if we want to follow him, we should "take up our crosses". He is the "capstone" that the builders rejected. He is the Great Physician and the bridegroom. He is "Lord of the Sabbath" and "Lord of the harvest", the foundation of stone, not shifting sand. He is master and servant.

So, when Jesus speaks about being the "bread of life", the "water of life" and his blood the "New Covenant", why is he suddenly speaking of literally drinking him or eating him? He obviously, to me, is speaking metaphorically and when we believe in him, receive him, trust in him, have faith in him, we are partaking of him and in return we have eternal life.

5,888 posted on 12/26/2010 8:28:50 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to him.)
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To: stfassisi; Kolokotronis; MarkBsnr; metmom; OLD REGGIE; boatbums; maryz
I read some of this awhile back. What do you and Kolo think of these sources?

I will be traveling tomorrow and will need more time on this. As regards his early ranking in the Church, suffice it to say that the first Church historian, Eusebius of Cesarea, a 3rd century bishop, refers to Philo, an Alexandrian Jew, as Saint Philo!

5,889 posted on 12/26/2010 8:29:48 PM PST by kosta50 (God is tired of repenting -- Jeremiah 15:6, KJV)
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To: boatbums; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; caww; count-your-change; Diamond; ...

Works for me

The problem comes when people have an agenda to prove. Then they HAVE to selectively and inconsistently interpret Scripture, literally some times and figuratively others, even within the same passages, to support their agenda.

The Catholic church has real control issues. They manipulate definitions, selectively interpret Scripture, label and pigeonhole people and doctrines, and generally make connecting with God so stinking complicated, that nobody can manage it to their satisfaction.

They are sooooo much like the Pharisees of old.


5,890 posted on 12/26/2010 8:47:13 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Kolokotronis


5,891 posted on 12/26/2010 8:52:39 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: metmom

INDEED.


5,892 posted on 12/26/2010 8:53:00 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Kolokotronis

“Of course it does. I can read the words as they were alleged to have been written...and I understand the words within the context they were written.”

Did you forget to add, “And no one else can”?


5,893 posted on 12/26/2010 9:02:40 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Kolokotronis

“Absolutely. My people have preserved it”

O.K., I’m game, just which one of “your people” have made which manuscripts available to us today?


5,894 posted on 12/26/2010 9:23:54 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Kolokotronis; count-your-change; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; ...
Absolutely. My people have preserved it. I have no problem with honest, correct translations, faithful to the original insofar as is possible in languages like English and German. I will not accept, however, the work of propagandists and liars.

And yet I don't recall you telling anyone which you consider the most accurate translation going. Or what the major issues are with the other ones with specific examples of what the problem areas are. Although I could have easily missed it as I don't read every post from every FReeper.

But yeah,..... we can all see that you're so much better than everyone else. So much superior to all the rest of us peons because of your knowledge of Greek. Even though koine Greek isn't actually modern Greek, but details, details......

Too bad all that knowledge isn't doing you any good.

1 Corinthians 2:14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

For all the snobbery and condescension that Catholics display towards others that they perceive as being more ignorant than they, it doesn't do any good when they can't even come close to interpreting Scripture correctly. Applying two different standards of interpretation within one passage in a vain bid to provide support for their unScriptural doctrines, will undo any amount of knowledge of the original language.

And besides, you're not the only one who knows Greek. Nor are you the only one who has access to Greek manuscripts. There are multitudes of references and dictionaries available to those who wish to study Scripture and get as close to the original meaning of the original texts as possible, something you can't even do better because koine Greek is not modern Greek.

Knowledge puffs up but love builds up.

Don't be ever learning and never being able to come to a knowledge of the truth. God resists the proud but gives grace to the humble. Come to Christ in humility and learn and receive eternal life.

Of course it does. I can read the words as they were alleged to have been written...and I understand the words within the context they were written.

Alleged to be written? Only alleged? What good would it do you to know the language as you claim, if you apparently don't even trust what was transcribed?

5,895 posted on 12/26/2010 9:35:56 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: stfassisi; kosta50; Kolokotronis; MarkBsnr; metmom; OLD REGGIE; maryz
Christianity to me is not easy,it costs us something.

So, when Jesus said:

Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light. (Matt. 11:29-30)

He was exaggerating? Lying? Minimizing? What?

5,896 posted on 12/26/2010 9:41:47 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to him.)
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To: metmom
generally make connecting with God so stinking complicated,

The RCC wants people to connect with them/a church/an organization, not God.

that nobody can manage it to their satisfaction.

IMO, I see that as a good thing. Who wants to satisfy their master of deception.

They are sooooo much like the Pharisees of old.

What would we do without God's Word? It's no wonder why it is attacked so vigorously. It is alive, It is a two-edged Sword! Thank YOU God for Your Word.
5,897 posted on 12/26/2010 9:48:07 PM PST by presently no screen name
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To: boatbums

Considering the burdens the Pharisees were placing on others, if Christianity is that hard in light of Jesus comment indicating otherwise, it would mean the person doesn’t have a real good grasp of what Christianity is all about.

I mean, really. Who are we going to believe here?

Jesus who says His burden is light?

The the Catholic church which makes Christianity such a convoluted, complicated mess that nobody can make it?


5,898 posted on 12/26/2010 9:48:42 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: presently no screen name

Amen!!!


5,899 posted on 12/26/2010 9:52:29 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to him.)
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To: metmom
. . .

Photobucket


5,900 posted on 12/26/2010 9:57:25 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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