Skip to comments.In Christ Alone (Happy reformation day)
Posted on 10/31/2010 11:59:22 AM PDT by RnMomof7
In Christ Alone lyrics
Songwriters: Getty, Julian Keith; Townend, Stuart Richard;
In Christ alone my hope is found He is my light, my strength, my song This Cornerstone, this solid ground Firm through the fiercest drought and storm
What heights of love, what depths of peace When fears are stilled, when strivings cease My Comforter, my All in All Here in the love of Christ I stand
In Christ alone, who took on flesh Fullness of God in helpless Babe This gift of love and righteousness Scorned by the ones He came to save
?Til on that cross as Jesus died The wrath of God was satisfied For every sin on Him was laid Here in the death of Christ I live, I live
There in the ground His body lay Light of the world by darkness slain Then bursting forth in glorious Day Up from the grave He rose again
And as He stands in victory Sin?s curse has lost its grip on me For I am His and He is mine Bought with the precious blood of Christ
Which recension of the Luke's Gospel do you take to be authentic, the long or the short one?
How many times did you consider that perhaps he never uttered those words?
The Germans assumed no one could ever break their Enigma Code. But they never considered the possibility that someone might steal it! Think outside the box.
No, I’m saying Christ instituted the Sacrament of the Holy Eucharist, first, at the Last Supper.
If you are charging cannibalism, just say so, the persecutors of the early Christians were not shy about it.
[sfa]Truly denying ourselves is NOT any easy thing to do
1 Peter speaks of and urges believers to share the suffering of Christ. If it is an easy "yoke" why call it suffering? When Christ yelled "Why have you forsaken me?" it doesn't sound like joy! Why did Jesus ask the Father to, if possible, take away the cup? But then Mt. 11:29-30 says His is an easy yoke and his suffering light...More contradictions.
RnMomof7: Everything? In context? [cites much scripture in colors]
And your point is? Yes, I, as Catholic, believe everything you quoted in context. I also believe what you don't quote. I am Catholioc, I believe the Holy Scripture. Only heretics don't.
They are alive.
That does not agree with the patristic saying that faith is once delivered and believed everywhere and always.
that does not necessarily invalidate that understanding
It doesn't validate it either. Christianity went from being a Jewish sectarian religion to being an amalgam of a specific flavor of Judaism, Greek Pagan philosophy (Plaotnism, Stoicism, etc.), and Persian (Zoroastrian) dualism. We can say that Christianity gradually (and consensually) evolved, especially in the West, without necessairly being either valid or invalid.
It is possible that we simply understand God better (not completely, of course not, but better than the fishermen and salesmen 2000 years ago).
It's possible, but doesn't seem probable.
The fact that the Church harmonized Scripture to the extent that it has does not invalidate it. It may mean that it has been nudged towards better description than formerly.
Too much deliberate change was required to call it mere harmonization, Mark. That's why I always put "harmonize" in quotes.
As for human understanding of God, how can finite even begin to encompass the infinite? Why, if God is infinite, then the combined understanding of all humanity that ever lived, lives and will live amounts to nothing compared to what God truly is.
Not really. I believe our Lord gives us the free will to handle and take on trials and when the trial is too heavy for us, all we need to do is ask Him for help and He will carry our burdens so we don't fall into despair.
Thank you sfa. You said "I believe" and that I accept and respect.
Primarily, it is the writings of the Fathers, a good collection of which is www.newadvent.org/fathers. Together, they clarify the belief system that Jesus gave the Church.
Yes. Thank you.
“”Thank you sfa. You said “I believe” and that I accept and respect.””
“Now faith is the substance of things to be hoped for, the evidence of things that appear not.”Heb 11:1
The solo Scripture crowd seems to not understand that faith is hope in what we believe and is not always a fact.
Well, the Protestants don't have the complete Bible and they do not read what they do have in the light of the patristic tradition, so on that score your faith is not complete. Most strikingly, you don't believe in the words of the Holy Scripture that tell you that good works are necessary for salvation alongside faith, and that you are not saved by faith alone. So your faith, although it retains some Christian principles, is defective.
You state "[salvation] is by grace through faith and good works". A person, in your example, must have faith but must also perform good deeds and refrain from sin. You also say that good works can be canceled out by sin such as committing a "mortal sin" and not following the prescribed remedy which is repentance, confession and due penance. Also the "good works" you say are required include many acts, beliefs and states of mind which include complete obedience to the "Church" and her proclaimed dogmas and doctrines. In this way of thinking, sin can actually cancel out the grace of God and whatever faith we placed in it in addition to any good deeds we may have done before we died
my belief is that God, through his grace, has provided the payment for all our sins
The Redemption obtained by Jesus on the Cross is alone sufficient to all sins past present and future. That part is true.
All our own righteousnesses are as "filthy rags" compared to his own for us, so from that I realize that my good deeds, my good works as somehow being held at the same level or the same worth as what Christ has done for us is purely illogical. To hold that grace through faith is not enough if it doesn't also include our efforts negates the whole meaning of grace
No one says your good works are on the "same level" as the salvific work of Christ. Neither does the New Testament call anyone "filthy rags", -- basing your misanthropy on that is a result of uncritical and un-Christian Old Testament literalism, against which Jesus advised (Mt 5:21-22, for example). However, the scripture does say that your good works are necessary for your salvation (Matthew 25:31-46, Romans 2:6-10, many direct appeals to do good and avoid evil). So if you believe in Christ, do what He tells you: strive for perfection (Matthew 5:48), forgive others (Matthew 6:14), do works of kindness (Matthew 5-7) do penance (Acts 2:38). The smug concept that because Christ's grace is sufficient nothing is required of you is foreign to the gospel. "Why call you me, Lord, Lord; and do not the things which I say?" (Luke 6:46). "[I] rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up those things that are wanting of the sufferings of Christ, in my flesh, for his body, which is the church" (Col. 1:24).
Nothing will ever separate me from him
Nothing except you yourself through your own deeds or lack of them.
One says he has faith but he also tries his best to follow all the rules out of fear that he may lose Heaven. The other has faith and follows the rules out of gratitude and love because she knows she is held in his hands where he will never lose her, he will never cast her out
It is better to obey the gospel out of fear of losing one's salvation than not obey it at all. It is even better to obey the Gospel out of love for your Savior. One thing does not exclude the other. A Catholic Christian starts with the former and proceeds to the latter. The once-saved-always-saved are not even on that road; they, thanks to the Protestant charlatans that teach them convinced themselves to stay on the sidelines
They seem to believe otherwise, sfa.
That is a contradictory statement. You think that faith alone saves but you also understand that faith nmust have "holiness and works". So say what you mean: faith must be accompanied by holiness and good works in order to be a saving faith.
I do not have any objection to the rest of your post. I agree that one who made the initial decision for Christ will be guided toward greater holiness and greater maturity of faith. But he must avoid the Protestant heresy of "faith alone" which entraps him in smug satisfaction of being "saved already" and deprives him of sanctity that could be his.
Which issue is that? If it seems to you that I did not adreess some issue, please indicate so and I'll try to do better.
Can you then name one teaching of Christ that was so “clarified”? and how?
Sure I can, because it is a knowledge possessed by the Church, which is not expressed in the scripture.
Same as before, Matthew 1:18, 25 MAY be interpreted your way but just as easily they simply mean what they say, that Mary was pregnant before she got married and not by Joseph.
Yes, exactly. That was my point.