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In Christ Alone (Happy reformation day)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExnTlIM5QgE ^ | Getty, Julian Keith; Townend, Stuart Richard;

Posted on 10/31/2010 11:59:22 AM PDT by RnMomof7

In Christ Alone lyrics

Songwriters: Getty, Julian Keith; Townend, Stuart Richard;

In Christ alone my hope is found He is my light, my strength, my song This Cornerstone, this solid ground Firm through the fiercest drought and storm

What heights of love, what depths of peace When fears are stilled, when strivings cease My Comforter, my All in All Here in the love of Christ I stand

In Christ alone, who took on flesh Fullness of God in helpless Babe This gift of love and righteousness Scorned by the ones He came to save

?Til on that cross as Jesus died The wrath of God was satisfied For every sin on Him was laid Here in the death of Christ I live, I live

There in the ground His body lay Light of the world by darkness slain Then bursting forth in glorious Day Up from the grave He rose again

And as He stands in victory Sin?s curse has lost its grip on me For I am His and He is mine Bought with the precious blood of Christ


TOPICS: Prayer; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: reformation; savedbygrace
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To: kosta50
Why do Protestants wave their hands in the air like those Khalimar worshipers in "Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom"? Are they making sure God "sees" them? Trying to get his attention?

Well, when you make it all up as you go along and invent your daily beliefs before you get breakfast, you'd want to get somebody's attention. And, when you have to make it all up, very often you simply get it wrong and just as often, ludicrously wrong...


6,451 posted on 01/02/2011 1:44:57 PM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
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To: count-your-change; Kolokotronis
eis should read esti or estin.

But you also say:

And that is the sense “eis” is used elsewhere in the Gospels, as symbolizes, etc.

Please show me where "estin" is properly translated "symbolizes".

I just went through a dozen occurences of "estin" off the top and in all of them "symbolizes" would be impossible to substitute.

Matthew
  Greek NT: Byzantine/Majority Text (2000) English: Douay-Rheims
  Matthew 1
20 ταυτα δε αυτου ενθυμηθεντος ιδου αγγελος κυριου κατ οναρ εφανη αυτω λεγων ιωσηφ υιος δαυιδ μη φοβηθης παραλαβειν μαριαμ την γυναικα σου το γαρ εν αυτη γεννηθεν εκ πνευματος εστιν αγιου But while he thought on these things, behold the angel of the Lord appeared to him in his sleep, saying: Joseph, son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife, for that which is conceived in her, is of the Holy Ghost.
23 ιδου η παρθενος εν γαστρι εξει και τεξεται υιον και καλεσουσιν το ονομα αυτου εμμανουηλ ο εστιν μεθερμηνευομενον μεθ ημων ο θεος Behold a virgin shall be with child, and bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
  Matthew 2
2 λεγοντες που εστιν ο τεχθεις βασιλευς των ιουδαιων ειδομεν γαρ αυτου τον αστερα εν τη ανατολη και ηλθομεν προσκυνησαι αυτω Saying, Where is he that is born king of the Jews? For we have seen his star in the east, and are come to adore him.
  Matthew 3
3 ουτος γαρ εστιν ο ρηθεις υπο ησαιου του προφητου λεγοντος φωνη βοωντος εν τη ερημω ετοιμασατε την οδον κυριου ευθειας ποιειτε τας τριβους αυτου For this is he that was spoken of by Isaias the prophet, saying: A voice of one crying in the desert, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make straight his paths.
11 εγω μεν βαπτιζω υμας εν υδατι εις μετανοιαν ο δε οπισω μου ερχομενος ισχυροτερος μου εστιν ου ουκ ειμι ικανος τα υποδηματα βαστασαι αυτος υμας βαπτισει εν πνευματι αγιω I indeed baptize you in the water unto penance, but he that shall come after me, is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear; he shall baptize you in the Holy Ghost and fire.
15 αποκριθεις δε ο ιησους ειπεν προς αυτον αφες αρτι ουτως γαρ πρεπον εστιν ημιν πληρωσαι πασαν δικαιοσυνην τοτε αφιησιν αυτον And Jesus answering, said to him: Suffer it to be so now. For so it becometh us to fulfill all justice. Then he suffered him.
17 και ιδου φωνη εκ των ουρανων λεγουσα ουτος εστιν ο υιος μου ο αγαπητος εν ω ευδοκησα And behold a voice from heaven, saying: This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
  Matthew 5
3 μακαριοι οι πτωχοι τω πνευματι οτι αυτων εστιν η βασιλεια των ουρανων Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
10 μακαριοι οι δεδιωγμενοι ενεκεν δικαιοσυνης οτι αυτων εστιν η βασιλεια των ουρανων Blessed are they that suffer persecution for justice' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
34 εγω δε λεγω υμιν μη ομοσαι ολως μητε εν τω ουρανω οτι θρονος εστιν του θεου But I say to you not to swear at all, neither by heaven, for it is the throne of God:
35 μητε εν τη γη οτι υποποδιον εστιν των ποδων αυτου μητε εις ιεροσολυμα οτι πολις εστιν του μεγαλου βασιλεως Nor by the earth, for it is his footstool: nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great king:

"that which is conceived in her, symbolizes of the Holy Ghost"?

6,452 posted on 01/02/2011 1:54:57 PM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: kosta50
The development of the Christian liturgy did not come out of nowhere. The Church Fathers were aprt of the same cultural and linguistic makeup that wrote the New Testament and it is precisely form them that we have the evolution of liturgical traditions in the early catholic Church, which are still observed by the East.

Excellent post; the Tridentine Mass would fit into your description; the NO Mass is being massaged in the same way that the NT was massaged, to fit the beliefs of the Church, and not vice versa, as the liberals desperately wanted.

6,453 posted on 01/02/2011 1:56:54 PM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
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To: kosta50

This should cover all the bases for you. It is New Testament. It is God speaking. It addresses the eternal nature of God. Its book begins as ‘The Revelation of Jesus Christ.’ Its context is judgment.

“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.” Revelation 1:8


6,454 posted on 01/02/2011 2:00:25 PM PST by esquirette ("Our hearts are restless until they find rest in Thee." ~ Augustine)
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To: kosta50; metmom
kosta: Why do Protestants wave their hands in the air like those Khalimar worshipers in "Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom"? Are they making sure God "sees" them? Trying to get his attention?

metmom: I don't know. You'll have to ask them [sic].

And you are not Protestant?

It's called mob emotion and it happens in every rally that every greasy tent preacher with something to sell with shills in the audience does his best to ensure has happened. It happened with such as Mussolini and Hitler and Lenin who were trying to get people to give them power. It happened with such as Jim Jones and Joseph Smith and Rex Humbard who were after people's souls - and money. It happens all the time and it is a substitution for reason or belief.

That is why the Liturgy is reverent. We do not permit mob emotion - it is a detraction from the worship of Almighty God, not a requirement.

And we see over and over the appeal to Paul over Christ. The old heresies that we stamped out 1700 years ago have retaken root and are flourishing in the children of the Reformation.

6,455 posted on 01/02/2011 2:11:52 PM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
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To: kosta50
As for its treatment of various parts of the Bible, the Catholic is based on the Gospels (not on Paul, as some claim), and the Gospels are the only scripture sitting on the altar. When Pauline Epistles are read, it is read by laymen, and the congregation sits. When the Gospels are read, they are read by ordained individuals (deacons, priests, bishops), and the congregation stands.

Correct. On Christmas Day, I had the honour of reading both the first and second readings (Isaiah and Paul). The congregation sat. I am a simple layman. The Gospel was read by our permanent deacon after being blessed by our priest and the entire congregation stood. Before the reading of the Gospel, the entire congregation crosses their forehead, lips and heart and prays that God will be ever in their mind, on their lips and in their heart. That does not happen before the letters of men are read.

6,456 posted on 01/02/2011 2:19:11 PM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
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To: MarkBsnr; kosta50; metmom
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Charismatic_Renewal

Carry on.
6,457 posted on 01/02/2011 2:20:51 PM PST by beezdotcom
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To: annalex

What’s the difference between “conceived” and “cleansed”?

If you say timing...then timing of what?


6,458 posted on 01/02/2011 2:30:48 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: beezdotcom
Carry on.

I do not take or eschew action at your bidding. However, I appreciate the link and would point out that nowhere does this article indicate mob emotion.

6,459 posted on 01/02/2011 2:39:40 PM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
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To: MarkBsnr; beezdotcom; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; caww; ...

Let me see if I understand this right.

If Catholics have charismatic services, it’s not *mob emotion* (post 6,459).

But if Protestants have charismatic services, it is (post 6,455).

So, it all depends on who’s holding the services whether the charismatic service is *mob emotion* or not.

Right?


6,460 posted on 01/02/2011 2:52:43 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: MarkBsnr
I do not take or eschew action at your bidding.

Uh, sure. I'll adjust my plans accordingly.

However, I appreciate the link

Thanks for explicitly saying it - I certainly would have missed it otherwise.

and would point out that nowhere does this article indicate mob emotion.

Perhaps not 'mob emotion'...but certainly getting closer to your off-the-cuff definition expressed earlier. Since my rather conservative Protestant church engages in nothing even remotely similar, you will forgive me if I am unfamiliar enough with it to properly distinguish the subtle differences.
6,461 posted on 01/02/2011 2:58:16 PM PST by beezdotcom
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To: metmom
Let me see if I understand this right.

mm, you have not gotten anything of Catholicism right in a very long time.

If Catholics have charismatic services, it’s not *mob emotion* (post 6,459). But if Protestants have charismatic services, it is (post 6,455). So, it all depends on who’s holding the services whether the charismatic service is *mob emotion* or not. Right?

It's not so much the who. It's the manner. The Catholic Charismatics are not equivalent either in belief or in form to the Pentecostal or other Protestant groups whom one may think of in this fashion. Catholics believe in revenence and homage during worship, not behaving like soccer or rugby crowds.

6,462 posted on 01/02/2011 2:59:09 PM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
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To: beezdotcom
I do not take or eschew action at your bidding.

Uh, sure. I'll adjust my plans accordingly.

Up to you.

However, I appreciate the link

Thanks for explicitly saying it - I certainly would have missed it otherwise.

We Catholics are notorious for our graciousness.

and would point out that nowhere does this article indicate mob emotion.

Perhaps not 'mob emotion'...but certainly getting closer to your off-the-cuff definition expressed earlier. Since my rather conservative Protestant church engages in nothing even remotely similar, you will forgive me if I am unfamiliar enough with it to properly distinguish the subtle differences.

Some viewing on YouTube of Hitler, Mussolini, Jim Jones, any successful Pentecostal preacher, and so on might give you enough evidence to conclude that the differences are not subtle at all.

6,463 posted on 01/02/2011 3:05:33 PM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
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To: kosta50
You are coming from the RCC beliefs.....Too much mind reading. I have never been a Roman Catholic.

Sure! Yet you are so concerned about them being laughed at. Not mind reading - it's from reading your posts .

With all your reading and commenting on God's Word, you didn't know God's own have a relationship with Him? But there are many who don't care to KNOW Him.....

"Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'
6,464 posted on 01/02/2011 3:07:24 PM PST by presently no screen name
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To: MarkBsnr

Godwin is pleased.


6,465 posted on 01/02/2011 3:10:58 PM PST by beezdotcom
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

INDEED.


6,466 posted on 01/02/2011 3:12:37 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: metmom

lol, too funny


6,467 posted on 01/02/2011 3:15:05 PM PST by 1000 silverlings (everything that deceives, also enchants: Plato)
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To: kosta50; Amityschild; Brad's Gramma; Captain Beyond; Cvengr; DvdMom; firebrand; ...

Sigh.

What a predictable pile of weasel worded rationalizations!

I was certain you could pull that off somehow.


6,468 posted on 01/02/2011 3:15:16 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: presently no screen name

WELL PUT.

THX.


6,469 posted on 01/02/2011 3:16:32 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: beezdotcom
I am speaking of techniques. Do you deny any major differences between successful hucksters? Are Mussolini and Barnum that far apart in technique? Or Osteen, for that manner?
6,470 posted on 01/02/2011 3:17:13 PM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
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To: kosta50; Amityschild; Brad's Gramma; Captain Beyond; Cvengr; DvdMom; firebrand; ...

THANKFULLY,

Amongst those truly seeking God, His Face, HIS will . . . HIS DELIGHT . . .

and thereby open to exhortations from His Spirit . . .

will learn whatever they should from my humble words.

The rest will likely enjoy their smug, self-righteous, IN-GROUP, !!!!TRADITION!!!! BOUND perspectives.


6,471 posted on 01/02/2011 3:18:26 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: 1000 silverlings

And inaccurate.


6,472 posted on 01/02/2011 3:22:17 PM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
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To: metmom; Quix; Dr. Eckleburg

119 million world wide off the Pope’s reservation, just a matter of time before they desert him all together if they haven’t already.


6,473 posted on 01/02/2011 3:23:43 PM PST by 1000 silverlings (everything that deceives, also enchants: Plato)
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To: kosta50; Amityschild; Brad's Gramma; Captain Beyond; Cvengr; DvdMom; firebrand; ...
Photobucket



NOPE!



Biblical Acts of worship out of sincere hearts are well pleasing to God.

Raising hands thusly is a Biblical act.

Those who have never authentically, sincerely engaged in such sufficiently, have little to no clue about the connection that can be strengthened or initiated by such arm reaching and waving.

God's 'locality' is not nor never has been part of the issue. What a silly, juvenile notion, otherwise.

6,474 posted on 01/02/2011 3:24:33 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: MarkBsnr; Amityschild; Brad's Gramma; Captain Beyond; Cvengr; DvdMom; firebrand; ...
Photobucket
UNMITIGATED
BALDERDASH!

THE RCC
IS RIFE TO THE GILLS, TO THE BRIM
SATURATED AND SPEWING FAR AND WIDE
WITH GROUP-THINK
MASS MANIPULATIONS!

6,475 posted on 01/02/2011 3:29:23 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: MarkBsnr; Amityschild; Brad's Gramma; Captain Beyond; Cvengr; DvdMom; firebrand; ...
Photobucket
UNMITIGATED
BALDERDASH!

THE RCC
IS RIFE TO THE GILLS, TO THE BRIM
SATURATED AND SPEWING FAR AND WIDE
WITH
VERY EMOTIONAL
GROUP-THINK
MASS MANIPULATIONS!
Just touch one of their sacred cows slightly
from a Proddy perspective and the emotions will
spew out with great venom and intensity.

6,476 posted on 01/02/2011 3:31:30 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Quix

can you believe it? the bible says that God looks at the heart, yet some would have us believe He purses His lips at raised hands, lol. It’s a White Hanky attitude for sure Duderoni


6,477 posted on 01/02/2011 3:32:30 PM PST by 1000 silverlings (everything that deceives, also enchants: Plato)
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To: beezdotcom

AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!

AND PRAISE GOD FOR

The Roman Catholica Charismatic Renewal.

Otherwise, there’d likely be little to no Holy Spirit Presence at all

in the whole fossilized edifice.


6,478 posted on 01/02/2011 3:33:11 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: MarkBsnr; Amityschild; Brad's Gramma; Captain Beyond; Cvengr; DvdMom; firebrand; ...

Oh, right.

That DOUBLE STANDARD BUSINESS, DOGMA, RITUAL

STATION OF THE

STATIONS OF THE WHITE HANKY

YET AGAIN.


6,479 posted on 01/02/2011 3:34:06 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: MarkBsnr; beezdotcom; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; caww; ...

On the contrary, what is described in the article is in essence no different than what goes on in Protestant charismatic services.

You contention is that they are somehow inherently different.

And you know this how?

How many Protestant charismatic services have you attended?

Do you know the intent behind them?

What kind of powers if discernment and mind reading do you have to allow you to evaluate them so?

On what criteria do make this determination of the differences between them and what personal qualifications do you possess that enables you to speak authoritatively about it?


6,480 posted on 01/02/2011 3:36:12 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: MarkBsnr; beezdotcom
We Catholics are notorious for our graciousness.

Notorious, yes.

Gracious, not so much....

6,481 posted on 01/02/2011 3:37:36 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: metmom; Amityschild; Brad's Gramma; Captain Beyond; Cvengr; DvdMom; firebrand; GiovannaNicoletta; ..

Let me see if I understand this right.

If Catholics have charismatic services, it’s not *mob emotion* (post 6,459).

But if Protestants have charismatic services, it is (post 6,455).

So, it all depends on who’s holding the services whether the charismatic service is *mob emotion* or not.

Right?


You got that ABSOLUTELY RIGHT, CORRECT.

Applicable Stations of the STATIONS OF THE WHITE HANKY:

1. Icon to bearing false witness

2. Black/white icon of duplicity, double standard dance

8. Icon of the rubber daffynitionary
9. Icon of the rubber logic text
10. Icon of hubris to the supreme degree

11. Groping for any explanation but the truth
12. Icon to the holy flip-flops in word meanings and arguments

14. Icon to the fantasized divine right, to be correct, pristinely sanctified & perfectly flawless in all respects in all cases all the time, regardless of the REAL TRUTH.
15. Icon to chronic & obsessive inconsistency.


6,482 posted on 01/02/2011 3:38:14 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: MarkBsnr
Yes, I am still learning. We don't do a lot of hand-waving in our church.

I guess eventually, at your continued urging, I might be able to learn to view THIS as dangerous - but I will need time, much more time.

Perhaps all I *really* was hoping to discover was more clarification of terminology in this thread - broad brush descriptions are so hard for me to follow, usually...but perhaps I will try to embrace them more in the future.
6,483 posted on 01/02/2011 3:38:26 PM PST by beezdotcom
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To: metmom

lol, it’s a new year and all but I still intend to shun people who called me scatological names last year and they know who they are.


6,484 posted on 01/02/2011 3:40:01 PM PST by 1000 silverlings (everything that deceives, also enchants: Plato)
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To: 1000 silverlings

That’s the number of RCC Charismatics?

Praise God!

The light seeps in the fossilized darkened corridors of bureaucratic political magicsterical power blocks.


6,485 posted on 01/02/2011 3:40:30 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: 1000 silverlings

I think your assertion is 100% accurate and very well put.

Thx Thx.


6,486 posted on 01/02/2011 3:41:34 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Quix

there is probably even more now, old Rome is dying on the vine, so many scandals, so many perversions, even the prophecy of Malachi says only one Pope left.


6,487 posted on 01/02/2011 3:42:15 PM PST by 1000 silverlings (everything that deceives, also enchants: Plato)
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To: beezdotcom

Thanks for the great video.

And Congrats for such finesse with your fingers in cheek!


6,488 posted on 01/02/2011 3:43:26 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: 1000 silverlings

Agreed.

Certainly more than plausible.


6,489 posted on 01/02/2011 3:44:17 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Quix; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; caww; count-your-change; ...

Can’t have any of that emotion stuff there, now can we.

What next? Someone might actually feel joy in their relationship with Christ?

They might be happy and *gasp* smile?

They might love God?

Funny, isn’t it, how people are so criticized for raising their hands in worship and showing some emotion when you look at any popular sporting event, like football or hockey.

Good grief, talk about mob emotion.... Shouting, cheering, waving, holding signs, beign excited.......

But can’t have any of that enthusiam stuff in church now, can we?

I wonder if Catholics sit on their hands during the Superbowl as well?


6,490 posted on 01/02/2011 3:45:08 PM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Natural Law

Well... maybe not funny “funny,” but funny “sad.” Very sad for you and those who fail to see the truth in the Word of God instead of believing the traditions of your church.

Very, very sad.

Hoss


6,491 posted on 01/02/2011 3:51:38 PM PST by HossB86
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To: metmom; Amityschild; Brad's Gramma; Captain Beyond; Cvengr; DvdMom; firebrand; GiovannaNicoletta; ..
Can’t have any of that emotion stuff there, now can we.

What next? Someone might actually feel joy in their relationship with Christ?

They might be happy and *gasp* smile?

They might love God?

Funny, isn’t it, how people are so criticized for raising their hands in worship and showing some emotion when you look at any popular sporting event, like football or hockey.

Good grief, talk about mob emotion.... Shouting, cheering, waving, holding signs, beign excited.......

But can’t have any of that enthusiam stuff in church now, can we?

I wonder if Catholics sit on their hands during the Superbowl as well?

INDEED!

Naw. They probably don't sit on their hands. They just wrap them in white hankys and take them out only to genuflect very emotionally or habitually or ritually or perfunctually or some such.

Actually, I suspect quite a number of RC's worship at the altar of exaggerated sports enthusiasm.

There are probably even some sports figures who are close to bumping Mary off the supremely most worshipped figure category in many RC lives.

6,492 posted on 01/02/2011 3:55:32 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: MarkBsnr; kosta50; metmom; Quix
It happened with such as Mussolini and Hitler and Lenin who were trying to get people to give them power. It happened with such as Jim Jones and Joseph Smith and Rex Humbard who were after people's souls - and money.

Hi. I'm back after a delightful vacation and happened to noticed this. I'm sorry but there have been a number of posts that have gone by and I have not read all of them. However, this did catch my attention.

Surely you are not saying that the Catholic Church has never been about people's souls and money? It should be noted how the Vatican was virtually penniless after the "Holy Wars" and the cash needed to build the Vatican. It was all that "jiggling" of cash that was the driver of the Reformation.

When will the Vatican open up the Vatican vaults so that we can see what's in it?

6,493 posted on 01/02/2011 4:08:33 PM PST by HarleyD
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To: HarleyD

INDEED.

BTW, as far as I know,

Rex Humbard did a pretty good job.

I don’t know about all his relatives involved.


6,494 posted on 01/02/2011 4:32:48 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: HarleyD

Here’s a decent Wiki article on Humbard:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex_Humbard


6,495 posted on 01/02/2011 4:36:43 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Quix
UNMITIGATED BALDERDASH! THE RCC IS RIFE TO THE GILLS, TO THE BRIM SATURATED AND SPEWING FAR AND WIDE WITH GROUP-THINK MASS MANIPULATIONS!

Good evening, Quix. I see that the new year has not mellowed you any. :)

6,496 posted on 01/02/2011 4:36:56 PM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
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To: MarkBsnr

LOL.

Were you exercising your RCC fantasies skills and habits early in such a direction?

May God lead you ever closer to Himself in the New Year.


6,497 posted on 01/02/2011 4:39:13 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Quix
STATIONS OF THE WHITE HANKY

The only white hanky that I'm aware of is this Protestant one:


6,498 posted on 01/02/2011 4:45:30 PM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
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To: metmom
On the contrary, what is described in the article is in essence no different than what goes on in Protestant charismatic services. You contention is that they are somehow inherently different. And you know this how?

In essence? Come, come. Don't mince words. It is a matter of degree, as the interpretation of Scripture is a matter of degree. We worship God, we don't sway back and forth like kelp in the current.

What kind of powers if discernment and mind reading do you have to allow you to evaluate them so?

No mind reading. Only discernment of video images.

On what criteria do make this determination of the differences between them and what personal qualifications do you possess that enables you to speak authoritatively about it?

A triple digit IQ, and a body temperature above the ambient. In my prodigal days, I did some wandering and was exposed to various groups who claimed to be Christian. I am grateful to all of them - they were all variously instrumental to me returning to the Faith. I recognize many of their practices from my exposure to them and I am further grateful for those on FR who remind me of those experiences and help keep me from straying in the future...

6,499 posted on 01/02/2011 4:54:47 PM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
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To: metmom
We Catholics are notorious for our graciousness.

Notorious, yes. Gracious, not so much....

I don't know what you mean.

6,500 posted on 01/02/2011 4:55:58 PM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
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