In Christ Alone (Happy reformation day)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExnTlIM5QgE ^ | Getty, Julian Keith; Townend, Stuart Richard;

[RnMomof7]

In Christ Alone lyrics

Songwriters: Getty, Julian Keith; Townend, Stuart Richard;

In Christ alone my hope is found He is my light, my strength, my song This Cornerstone, this solid ground Firm through the fiercest drought and storm

What heights of love, what depths of peace When fears are stilled, when strivings cease My Comforter, my All in All Here in the love of Christ I stand

In Christ alone, who took on flesh Fullness of God in helpless Babe This gift of love and righteousness Scorned by the ones He came to save

?Til on that cross as Jesus died The wrath of God was satisfied For every sin on Him was laid Here in the death of Christ I live, I live

There in the ground His body lay Light of the world by darkness slain Then bursting forth in glorious Day Up from the grave He rose again

And as He stands in victory Sin?s curse has lost its grip on me For I am His and He is mine Bought with the precious blood of Christ

[OLD REGGIE]

The Tridentine Mass was the Novus Ordo of 1570.

Well, kinda sorta.

As kosta pointed out it was in use since the end of the sixth century and was "oficially" formalized at the Council of Trent.

In any event whenever it was practiced and wherever it was practiced it was "new". Many Catholics seem to believe the Latin Mass was practiced from the beginning.

[OLD REGGIE]

Of course Catholic "revenence" (sic) may be a Catholicspeak word which means "wild and crazy guys".

Umm, reverence, of course. I'm not recognizing the two in this photoshopped pic.

I knew you meant "reverence" my son but couldn't resist the impulse to pull your chain. :-)

Those two guys were showing reverence at a typical Catholic Charismatic Mass. (Not true.)

[kosta50]

Apologies. Could you tell me what was “personal” in my post?

[OLD REGGIE]

Lets ask for something which the Vatican should have no moral or legal opposition to. For instance, the Vatican Archives! After all, the Vatican has nothing to hide.

I was under the impression that they were being slowly opened. Is it the speed to which you object?

I suspect, for one reason or another, they will never be completely opened.

I must say that I am very impressed with the state of your teeth - a little yellow around the canines, but appearing to be in very good shape.

That's my cat you ninny. She lost her teeth and I made use of a set of false teeth left behind by my grandmother.

[kosta50]

If you bring it up again, you haven't forgiven either

Doesn't follow. It was brought up in proper context. Being reminded is not the same as being accused again.

[OLD REGGIE]

FYI This is a Catholic Mass

Sure, in order to keep Catholics from leaving the Church in huge numbers, the RCC finally gave in to the the mostly Filipino and Latino demands in 2003 to allow this. These people make up 120 million (10%) of Romes' 1.2 billion members.

In America these offshoots come mostly from Notre Dame and Duquesne ultra liberal centers.

None of this changes the fact that this is unrecognizable to the Church in the East or the West, at least from the 3rd century onward, or that it is pagan-like worship.

Excuses, excuses. Wouldn't it be easier to admit it happens in the "unchanging" Catholic Church?

[OLD REGGIE]

The Tridentine Mass was the Novus Ordo of 1570.

LOL! OR you can do better than that. The TLM was the Roman Mass since the end of the 6th century, instituted by Pope St. Gregory I (aka known as the Great). At Trent it was made mandatory (or "ordinary") for all except for some very ancient liturgies, such as the Mozarabic (in Spain), etc.

Prior to TLM, the Latin Church used Alexandrian and Antiochan (Eastern) liturgies. And up to the 3rd century its liturgy was in Greek.

It became "official" in 1570. That's what I said.

Prior to 1950 Catholics could agrue and disagree concerning the Bodily Assumption of Mary. After 1950 BANG! no more discussion allowed.

Prattle as much as you wish about "always believed", etc. it was cast in concrete in 1950.

[Religion Moderator]

It was making the thread “about” the other Freeper which is also a form of “making it personal.”

[OLD REGGIE]

Each time the question is raised, "why wouldn't the Pope just order X", that is the answer. The bishops are sovereign princes of their dioceses. We are held together by faith kept in common, not by command and control structures.

The Pope "owns" the Bishops in that he has sole authority to hire and fire them. If that is not a command and control structure what is?

[OLD REGGIE]

As to being arrested for proselytizing, that may very well be true. Protestant Christians have no business in Christian Greece. Your missionaries should go where Christ is unknown.

A skunk by any other name is still a skunk.

[OLD REGGIE]

any "Catholic" Bible written since the Douay Rheims is the work of the Devil

Not "any", but the so called "dynamic" translations certainly are. Douay is word-for-word Vulgate and Vulgate is the result of Jerome's work before some codices went missing, and in the living environment of 4c Palestine. There are problems with that as well, but on balance, there is no better window to the Greek original in English today than Douay. unless you are prepared to struggle with Young's Literal, or, best of all, learn Greek.

That is if you want to do, in the spirit of Protestantism, all the work for yourself from scratch. If, on the other hand, you are willing to accept a historical authority, listen to the Catholic (and/or Orthodox) Church and you will know exactly not only what the scripture says but also what it means. Then the blandest, most cursory and aerodynamic stuff like NAB would still become useful, because you read it with the eye of the Church.

Blather!

When did the Greek Church, if they have done so yet, adopt an English language Bible? If so, which version is it? I guarantee you it is not, and never will be the Douay Rheins.

[kosta50]

Thank you RM. Again, my apoliogies to boatbums.

[kosta50]

skunk who?

[count-your-change]

Under those long black robes are tall black jack boots in “Christian” Greece. Yipppeeee skipppeee!!!!

[metmom]

Have you ever read the Greek constitution? I doubt it. Nothing in it establishes Eastern Orthodoxy as the "state" religion. Church and state are separate.

Then they have no reason to be arresting anyone for "proselytizing".

The Greeks are among the most religious people in Europe. The number of people who believe in God is equal or higher than in the United States of America. Only Malta and Poland come close.

Big deal. Being *religious* means nothing. Lots of people are *religious* and it doesn't get them anywhere because it's not faith in Christ. It's essentially a vaccine against true faith as people trust in it and feel good about themselves, lulling them into a false sense of security by causing them to think they're actually doing something productive in regard to their afterlife.

Orthodoxy is deeply intertwined with Greek culture, so that much of folklore also has Orthodoxy in it. The two are inseparable, as Judaism is inseparable from Israel.

Let me see now. Greek is the most highly *religious* country in Europe with its religious beliefs intertwined with its society, like Judaism, and yet they manage to divorce it completely from politics, but still arrest someone one for *proselytizing*.

Do you seriously expect us to believe that they divorce their religious beliefs which are so intertwined with their culture from their politics.

Give us a break. Not buying it.

As to being arrested for proselytizing, that may very well be true. Protestant Christians have no business in Christian Greece. Your missionaries should go where Christ is unknown.

They did.

Religion notwithstanding.

2 Timothy 3:1-7 But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people. For among them are those who creep into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and led astray by various passions, always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth.

This is the perfect example of what a Catholic influenced country is like in regard to freedom of religion and what a Protestant influenced country like the US is like in regard to freedom of religion.

Predominantly Catholic countries have very little religious freedom. Predominantly Protestant countries do.

[Quix]

WELL PUT.

Been there.

I don’t think it’s divorced either. Our guide didn’t think so either.

[count-your-change]

Mary living with John and her reply to Elizabeth are found in Luke and are available to all. It is not special to the Catholic Church.

[count-your-change]

Thanks for the reply, boatbums.

“1367 The sacrifice of Christ and the sacrifice of the Eucharist are one single sacrifice:...”

So the sacrifice of the Eucharist came first? It “made present” Christ’s sacrifice before it happened. Really, annalex, really?

[kosta50]

Then they have no reason to be arresting anyone for "proselytizing"

Do you know their laws? Do you know why they are being arrested, (if they are being arrested!)?

Big deal. Being *religious* means nothing. Lots of people are *religious* and it doesn't get them anywhere because it's not faith in Christ

Greeks are 99% Christian.

people trust in it and feel good about themselves, lulling them into a false sense of security by causing them to think they're actually doing something productive in regard to their afterlife

The same can be said about Christians. Have you been to "afterlife"?

Greek [sic] is the most highly *religious* country in Europe with its religious beliefs intertwined with its society, like Judaism, and yet they manage to divorce it completely from politics, but still arrest someone one for *proselytizing*.

Who said they completely divorce it from politics? We don't, why should they? Again, you are saying they are arresting posleyutizers (examples please), but don;t mention on what charges. Israel arrests missionaries too when they break Israeli laws and nobody in the Protestant community says about it.

Again, there is no one to "proselytize" to in Greece. They are 99% Christian. The Protestant missionaries need to go where the population and the culture is not Christian.

2 Timothy 3:1-7 But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy,

Oy, not again! In "last days"? Paul believed Jesus was coming back real soon. Guess what, he was wrong! If he was wrong on that, why should he be right on anything else?

Also, when was there time when people were not lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy?

This is the perfect example of what a Catholic influenced country is like in regard to freedom of religion

LOL! Catholic-influenced? Greece?

and what a Protestant influenced country like the US is like in regard to freedom of religion

Can you show me where in the Greek Constitution it says there is no freedom of religion?

Predominantly Catholic countries have very little religious freedom. Predominantly Protestant countries do

I hope you don't represent an average Protestant. If you did, I think that would be very troubling. Austria is a predominantly Catholic, so is France, Spain, Poland, Italy, Ireland, Malta, etc.

[kosta50]

a predominantly Catholic=a predominantly Catholic country.