In Christ Alone (Happy reformation day)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExnTlIM5QgE ^ | Getty, Julian Keith; Townend, Stuart Richard;

[metmom]

The difference is that the Reformation ushered in the age where individual men at their own whims create churches of their own with their own made up doctrines and beliefs.

Have you actually read some of the beliefs put forth by some of the Orthodox and others on these threads?

Do those beliefs represent Orthodox teaching, or are they the whims of made up doctrine and beliefs?

Things like soul annihilation, Christ was a myth, the Bible is full of magic, not even knowing if God exists, denying the miracles of rising from the dead and walking on water, denial of transubstantiation, etc....

These folks claim to represent Catholicism and condemn Protestantism for it's many factions, and yet, we have here people who claim to be Catholics bragging about the unity of Catholic doctrine, each believing what he wants without regard to what Rome teaches.

[MarkBsnr]

So, you are taking this passage to mean that a true Christian must suffer for their sins? Jesus said we are to take up our cross and follow him he does not say in taking up this "cross" we are to suffer for our sins. If that were the case, just what did he suffer on the cross for? We are certainly told to put him before all else, we are told to not hold back anything from him, nor to allow anyone else to hold us back from following him and that is what we are doing exactly when we by faith trust in him as Lord and Savior. We are giving over our lives to his hands and surrendering to his will for us. How better could Jesus have put it?

This is a wonderful statement from the Protestant perspective and I thank you for it. In the light of the Passion of the Christ, and the intense suffering and ignoble and painful drawn out death that Christ suffered, the Protestant idea of taking up the cross of Christ means actually taking up the beach chair, flip flops and mai tais on the beach in Hawaii?

No wonder the Reformation succeeding in the worlds of Phineas T. Barnum - suckering a rube every minute.

I really do sorrow over people who think like that because it tells me that they have no idea of the joy and love God wants for his children and they miss out on so much of the goodness of him and the easy yoke and light burden that Jesus promises those who follow him. They are easy and light because he is there with us helping us carry it and not behind us in the cart with the whip.

I have said often, and maintain to this day, that the appeal of the Protestant churches over the Christian ones is the relative ease and convenience. This helps provide even more justification for that belief. Paul speaks of driving himself on as if by whips, and you speak of ease. If you guys cannot get Paul right, how can you hope to get Jesus right?

[MarkBsnr]

That’s honest, and brave, Mark.

My faith does not depend upon Pastor Tom, Deacon Dick, or Bishop Harry being right, wrong, good, nasty, friendly or unfriendly. I have the Faith, and I believe. I do not pretend to know what I do not.

[MarkBsnr]

Apparently some don't know the difference, Mark. Bird babble or human conversation is all the same to them. Pretty telling, don't you think?

I was in a Church of Christ (a capella) in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, once. Bird babble would have been an improvement.

[presently no screen name]

Are you saying that God failed?

Are you saying that God can fail? As yes or no is sufficient.

[presently no screen name]

There is nothing substantial in believing how you interpret the Bible,since you're a human.

I'm a HOLY SPIRIT FILLED human. That makes ALL the difference. Something you cannot comprehend because God says.....

1Cor 2:14 "The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned".

Now if you love God, you will, also, honor His Word.

[MarkBsnr]

I must say, Mark, your take on things is sometimes quite unique! You say it doesn't say they were believers. But it does. It says they said, "Lord, Lord...we did these mighty works in your name...". They sure thought they believed in God. But you are correct in your assessment that they were in for themselves, yet that describes all people who do good deeds in order to get something in return. In this case they expected heaven. Isn't that what your religion teaches you?

It does not say that they were not believers. The text does not even imply it. They thought that they had attained salvation - much like the Reformed contingent here. The Church does not teach expected salvation - and you oughta know - you've posted on it a few times. They teach the hope of salvation - based a lot on the Pauline model, by the way.

You claim that those who say they are "saved" are in a way "pre-judging" themselves and usurping Jesus, yet doesn't Scripture say many times that we can know we have eternal life? For example, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.", that sure sounds like an assurance to me. I think what is happening here is, since you believe that your eternal destiny is based on how good you are, you don't think you can ever really be sure about where you will go when you die because, well, you're not dead yet and who knows what kind of mischief you might be overwhelmingly tempted into until now and then, right?

If you believe in the Lord Jesus Christ at the moment of your death, and have repented of your sins, you have a greater than even hope, sure. If you believe today, and disbelieve tomorrow and you die the next day, no way. No salvation for unbelievers - at the moment of their death. That is the point of Judgement and not before.

You are angry at the "self-described saved of this era" because you think they (me) somehow think we have attained the perfection of ourselves that is required for the eternal beatific vision. Am I right? Yet, we haven't in any way ever said that and if someone does say that they are quite wrong. None of us can go to heaven because of our good deeds no matter how much suffering or self-sacrifice we endure. No amount of manmade goodness or merit could ever take the place of the perfection that the blood of Christ imparts upon the believer. That is the awesome and amazing thing about grace. We do not deserve what we get and do not get what we deserve.

Nope, I don't believe that. I believe that you guys think that you (and none of the Reformed believe otherwise that I can discern) have been picked by a cosmic lottery and that you do not have to attain perfection. I think that you guys think that you have a magic loophole or a magic get out of hell free card that bypasses you from Judgement.

So the next time you start thinking us self-described saved people are just bragging on ourselves, stop and think about what we are really saying, that we are falling upon the grace and mercy of the most high God who loved us so much he provided a way for us to be with him forever. We aren't bragging.

No, but you sure are sneering at those you think are reprobate, as opposed to those of you who get a free ride in the magic limousine.

[MarkBsnr]

You're still not getting it, Mark. How do you define a reprobate? What is a reprobate?

I don't. I don't have to. Your WCF defines reprobate in direct opposition to Paul's references. Paul refers to reprobate in good works and reprobate in the faith. You guys call reprobate a state of being conferred upon an individual before time began. You guys don't get Paul - how can you possibly get Jesus?

[MarkBsnr]

Post baptism, the sins that we accumulate must be truly repented for us to receive the cleaning grace that is Christ's forgiveness. These do not "clean us" but they are the sign to God that we truly wish to be clean -- HE cleans us

Repent and be saved. Don't repent, and suffer the eternal darkness. Pretty clear.

[MarkBsnr]

This was from the snippet you posted that you said was heresy.. I simply asked which parts of WHAT YOU POSTED AND CALLED HERETICAL , you believed was heretical .

No you did not. You posted the end phrases, which were set up by the heretical beginning of the sentence, which is the emphasis. I am not going to reduce my posting to wrestling over which snippets of the WCF are actually not heretical. The overall WCF is a steaming pile of heresy; there may be an occasional grain of true Christian turn of phrase here or there, but the overarching belief is as pagan as anything that Muhammed in his opium stupor ever came up with.

Name calling is easy, backing it up apparently a little harder

Try quoting some Christian documents instead.

[MarkBsnr]

Or was it that Matthias, whose name is heard on one occassion and never again, was not the choice of the Lord and was mistakenly chosen by the Apostles?

ACTS 1:26 And they cast lots for them, and the lot fell on Matthi'as; and he was enrolled with the eleven apostles.

How do you know it was a mistake?

[stfassisi]

I'm a HOLY SPIRIT FILLED human...Now if you love God, you will, also, honor His Word.

I do honor His word ,I just don't believe your interpretation of it,PNSN.So, I don't believe you are SPIRIT filled when you interpret Scripture outside of the Catholic Church.

You don't present yourself as a loving person,but rather a radical fundamentalist,so I reject much of what you write

[MarkBsnr]

He hid the gospel of Christ from the people and turned them to a goddess for comfort . The world loved him because the darkness HATES the light..darkness loves darkness and so the world wept at his death.

So Pope John Paul II is in hell? Not only do you guys usurp the Judgement of Christ upon yourselves, for yourselves, but for others as well? What do you need God for? The LDS is the place for you, where you can become gods of your very own universe, unhindered by any other being.

[MarkBsnr]

Have you actually read some of the beliefs put forth by some of the Orthodox and others on these threads?

Some of them.

Do those beliefs represent Orthodox teaching, or are they the whims of made up doctrine and beliefs?

You'll have to point them out one by one and I can answer them one by one. I've been wrong before, myself, and been corrected not only by Catholics, but by non Catholics as well. However, the Faith is the Faith and, well, is.

Things like soul annihilation, Christ was a myth, the Bible is full of magic, not even knowing if God exists, denying the miracles of rising from the dead and walking on water, denial of transubstantiation, etc....

You deny transubstantiation. Are you one of those of whom you speak?

These folks claim to represent Catholicism and condemn Protestantism for it's many factions, and yet, we have here people who claim to be Catholics bragging about the unity of Catholic doctrine, each believing what he wants without regard to what Rome teaches.

The Faith is the Faith, regardless of departures of any individuals. Even the great Augustine departed from the Faith for a time. Some of the Church Doctors were condemned because they adopted non Christian beliefs. The floor of hell is paved with the skulls of bishops. No matter, the Faith goes on.

[MarkBsnr]

Are you saying that God failed?

Are you saying that God can fail? As yes or no is sufficient.

I am asking this of another poster. Shall we wait until her answer is provided?

[MarkBsnr]

What does that have to do with KISSING THE KORAN? Just filler words to make it look 'holy'? Get real. It is Catholics that do not believe THE ALMIGHTY POWER OF HIS WORD. And clueless about God's love. God's love DOES NOT EMBRACE EVIL.

Evidently your Bible does not contain Luke.

Luke 6: 17 9 And he came down with them and stood on a stretch of level ground. A great crowd of his disciples and a large number of the people from all Judea and Jerusalem and the coastal region of Tyre and Sidon 18 came to hear him and to be healed of their diseases; and even those who were tormented by unclean spirits were cured. 19 Everyone in the crowd sought to touch him because power came forth from him and healed them all.

20 10 11 And raising his eyes toward his disciples he said: "Blessed are you who are poor, for the kingdom of God is yours. 21 Blessed are you who are now hungry, for you will be satisfied. Blessed are you who are now weeping, for you will laugh. 22 Blessed are you when people hate you, and when they exclude and insult you, and denounce your name as evil on account of the Son of Man. 23 Rejoice and leap for joy on that day! Behold, your reward will be great in heaven. For their ancestors treated the prophets in the same way. 24 But woe to you who are rich, for you have received your consolation. 25 But woe to you who are filled now, for you will be hungry. Woe to you who laugh now, for you will grieve and weep. 26 Woe to you when all speak well of you, for their ancestors treated the false prophets in this way.

27 12 "But to you who hear I say, love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29 To the person who strikes you on one cheek, offer the other one as well, and from the person who takes your cloak, do not withhold even your tunic. 30 Give to everyone who asks of you, and from the one who takes what is yours do not demand it back. 31 Do to others as you would have them do to you. 32 For if you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do the same. 34 If you lend money to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit (is) that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, and get back the same amount. 35 But rather, love your enemies and do good to them, and lend expecting nothing back; then your reward will be great and you will be children of the Most High, for he himself is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked. 36 Be merciful, just as (also) your Father is merciful.

Let's see. Hate the Muslims; judge Popes to hell before and in spite of Jesus. You people call yourselves Christians? Based upon what? The image that you see in the mirror?