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99 & 1/2 Won’t Do – A Meditation on Purgatory
Archdiocese of Washington ^ | November 1, 2010 | Msgr. Charles Pope

Posted on 11/02/2010 7:45:16 AM PDT by Salvation

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To: metmom

No. Christ said we have to pay the last penny.

If you believe, you are redeemed and will eventually be with Him in Heaven... after you have been allowed to complete your purification from sin.


51 posted on 11/03/2010 11:18:14 PM PDT by Melian ("Life's tough... it's even tougher if you're stupid." ~ John Wayne)
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To: Melian
There are no works you can do for your own salvation - nothing.

More is required than saying you believe; you must live belief.

That is AFTER salvation - not FOR salvation.

The Bible says that faith without works is dead – but that is AFTER you have received God’s gift of eternal salvation. AFTER you get saved, God has a plan and a purpose for your life, and this is where you will go to work for God into whatever your calling is going to be in Him. But to initially receive the GIFT of eternal salvation from God the Father is simply done by having faith and belief in Jesus Christ and what He personally did for you on the cross.

“For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the GIFT of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.” (Ephesians 2:8)

Receive the GIFT thankfully and rejoice. There is no striving to receive it. Then we renew our minds to conform with the mind of Christ by reading/studying/meditating on His Word.

Our Spirit is what is saved - not our body or mind. Our Spirit never dies. Those who are saved (according to what HE says salvation is) - their Spirit lives w/HIM for eternity but those not born again/saved - their spirit goes to their master (satan) dwelling they followed here on earth. What we do is renew our minds/soul (our way of thinking) to His Way. We will never attain it all here because we have inherited a sinful nature. And that doesn't go away here, so we have to harness it in and make it obey The Word. And we will fail and get up and fail again, etc.

Fellowship with Our Heavenly Father is what He wants from us. The more we know Him, the better our walk of faith is. And we get to know Him through reading/meditating on His Word. "I can do all things thru Christ Who strengthens me". He gives us the strength to carry our His tasks. It is all by Faith.

"Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

They went and did works on their own but never had fellowship with Our Heavenly Father. So they weren't doing His works but their own since they never knew Him. All for naught, they did things their way and not God's Way.


52 posted on 11/04/2010 12:42:13 AM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: presently no screen name

Of course you must believe in Christ and accept Him as Savior. No one disputes that. The gift of redemption is simply ours for the asking. But Christ clearly set up a few more requirements for righteousness in His eyes. His parables illustrate very clearly that saying one believes is not enough to find favor with God. One must live faith with humility, generosity, perseverance, and love. St. Paul makes this clear in his letters also. You have to run the race to the end.

It is up to us to hold onto our salvation our whole lives. Our actions are a demonstration of our free will and our choice to be redeemed- and stay redeemed. In that sense, we must each complete our own redemption.

I am reminded of two parables: the haughty Pharisee and lowly Lazarus (the Pharisee believed but his self-righteous attitude was not pleasing to God) and the parable of the two sons. One son claimed he loved his father and would be obedient to him, but didn’t follow through; while the son who made no promises, but actually did what his father requested, was the one who really was the good son.

These are just two examples, from Christ’s own mouth, in sacred Scripture, that tell us there is a component of salvation that involves the way we actually live out our faith on a daily basis. Our actions and deeds matter when Christ judges us. Christ made that clear.


53 posted on 11/04/2010 3:55:41 AM PDT by Melian ("Life's tough... it's even tougher if you're stupid." ~ John Wayne)
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To: Melian
Yes. It is true.

How do you know that ?

54 posted on 11/04/2010 4:59:10 AM PDT by RnMomof7 (Some call me harpy..God calls me His)
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To: RnMomof7

“How do you know that ?”

Because I have faith. Because I take the parables Christ told very seriously. Because many saints have pondered this question and come to the same conclusion. Because of what St. Paul said about his own salvation. Because it makes sense.


55 posted on 11/04/2010 5:48:37 AM PDT by Melian ("Life's tough... it's even tougher if you're stupid." ~ John Wayne)
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To: Melian
“How do you know that ?”
Because I have faith. Because I take the parables Christ told very seriously. Because many saints have pondered this question and come to the same conclusion. Because of what St. Paul said about his own salvation. Because it makes sense.

There is no scripture , no teaching from Jesus or Paul that supports purgatory.. accepting a doctrine like that on faith alone steals glory from Christ and diminishes the cross. It says Jesus could not close the deal, so i will

56 posted on 11/04/2010 12:02:09 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: Melian
But Christ clearly set up a few more requirements for righteousness in His eyes. His parables illustrate very clearly that saying one believes is not enough to find favor with God.

For salvation? Use Scripture to confirm your statements. REMINDER: No one is righteous, only those who are 'in Christ'. If one isn't saved, they are not 'in Christ'. We attain salvation HIS WAY only.

One must live faith with humility, generosity, perseverance, and love. St. Paul makes this clear in his letters also. .

Paul taught God's Word alone, was Holy Spirit filled and walked by faith. Catholics are taught to walk in obedience to man made doctrine and have faith in their church. MAJOR difference. Align yourself with Paul's teachings - anyone can say what he taught. We are command to HEAR and OBEY HIS Word and not the catechism.

Our actions and deeds matter when Christ judges us. Christ made that clear.

What actions/deeds? What will Catholics says about their acts of praying to/for the dead, adoration towards anyone (Mary, saints) other than HIM, teaching that 'any man' is infallible, abiding by man made doctrine that is in direct opposition to His Word. The prideful nature displayed saying one can/must add to their salvation by works with the 'Jesus is Not Enough' mentality. Jesus said He died for all our sins, and the RCC rebels and teaches purgatory purifies one. How do you think that will 'judge' out? There are no liberal judges in heaven - ONLY ONE - and HIS WORD rules there and forever while the catechism is burnt up along with every other man-made doctrine.
57 posted on 11/04/2010 1:26:25 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: presently no screen name

Sorry. I think you’re completely wrong about Scripture, Catholics, and Purgatory.


58 posted on 11/04/2010 7:47:25 PM PDT by Melian ("Life's tough... it's even tougher if you're stupid." ~ John Wayne)
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To: RnMomof7

Wrong. Paul said clearly that he worked out his salvation every day in fear and trembling. He made it very clear it’s not a done deal. Scripture, Christ’s parables, and Paul, support the idea of Purgatory.


59 posted on 11/04/2010 7:49:05 PM PDT by Melian ("Life's tough... it's even tougher if you're stupid." ~ John Wayne)
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To: presently no screen name

Ok. Purgatory: 2 Mac 12: 42-46, Mt 12:32, Luke 12: 58, Luke 16:19-31, 1 Cor 3: 10-15, 1 Pet 3:19, Rev 21: 27.

Catholics are quite in line with Paul’s teachings. In fact, Paul submitted himself to the Church and Peter’s authority.

I don’t know about you, but I hear and obey Christ’s words before Paul’s.

Christ prayed for the dead when He prayed for Lazarus and the Centurian’s servant. Christ showed reverence for the Torah.

It is prideful to assume one is saved. It is humble to assume one must actually try to live the way Christ asked us to live— and to know we often fall short.

Not sure what your last paragraph means. The Catholic Church is the truest to Christ’s actual words and deeds, the early Church practices and teachings, and collected the writings of the Bible. The earliest Church members prayed to and for the dead: their carvings with their prayers to the dead are displayed in the Catacombs. The facts are not on your side.

The fact is the Catholic Church is the one, true Church of Christ and has His authority to carry on His teachings. The Catechism is built on Scripture. Every paragraph references the Scripture it pertains to. Pick it up and look at it some time.

It seems to me that your post is another vain repetition of the same, worn, inaccurate objections to the Church. There’s not much fact there, just a lot of sound and fury. It still signifies nothing.


60 posted on 11/04/2010 8:05:41 PM PDT by Melian ("Life's tough... it's even tougher if you're stupid." ~ John Wayne)
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To: Melian

Of course you do, you’re a Catholic.


61 posted on 11/04/2010 8:12:03 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: presently no screen name

Yes, I am. I am proud, thankful, and joyful that I am Catholic. It is a magnificent Church, founded by Christ, that carries on His teachings. The depth and detail and beauty of the Church astound me daily. I am humbly grateful to have been given such a gift as the Eucharist.


62 posted on 11/04/2010 8:28:35 PM PDT by Melian ("Life's tough... it's even tougher if you're stupid." ~ John Wayne)
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To: Melian
I am proud, thankful, and joyful that I am Catholic.

I am proud, thankful and Joyful that I am no longer a Catholic.

It is a magnificent Church

If you are into the demonic..

Founded by Christ, that carries on His teachings.

Show me where in His Word Mary is co-redeemer.

The depth and detail and beauty of the Church astound me daily

Don't feel bad - freedom in Christ is not something everyone wants. Bondage feels better to Catholics. Your focus is on the 'church' - Christians focus ON JESUS!!
63 posted on 11/04/2010 8:43:24 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: Melian
I don’t know about you, but I hear and obey Christ’s words before Paul’s.

Paul's words are inspired by the Holy Spirit. You show favoritism on what Scripture you hear/obey first? ((shakes head))

Christ prayed for the dead when He prayed for Lazarus and the Centurian’s servant.

HE COMMANDED the dead to rise. "Lazarus, come forth!" Does that sound like a prayer to you? And you use 'this' as authority to pray to/for the dead. Who taught you that? Run from them!

It is prideful to assume one is saved. It is humble to assume one must actually try to live the way Christ asked us to live— and to know we often fall short.

Spoken like someone in bondage and assign humbleness to it! I might add it is Catholics who are PRIDEFUL in their thinking they can add to their salvation. Also, the dead you pray to - how do you know they are in heaven? Are you assuming in a prideful way that you accuse me of?

However, I do not assume I am saved. I AM SAVED!! And I have The Spirit of God within. I'd say the God I serve is not the god you serve. Your god/your church condemns you and you must pay for your sins. There is no condemnation in My God "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death". Romans 8:1,2

Not sure what your last paragraph means.

How could you not know what my last paragraph means? Jesus is Not Enough - you are taught you need to add to His Gift to make it complete. And it does not speak of one who is very appreciative or thankful. That speaks volumes.

The earliest Church members prayed to and for the dead: their carvings with their prayers to the dead are displayed in the Catacombs. The facts are not on your side.

No one ever disputed Catholics don't pray to the dead or that they have graven imagines. That is a fact and I DON'T want them on my side or anywhere near me. JESUS IS at my side.

"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth".

As you see from the above Scripture, the RCC is in direct opposition to God's Word and you seem to like that - you even boast about it. Yet, you have repeatedly stated the RCC teachings are based on Scripture. Please don't defile God's Word by associating it with heresy teaching.

Anyone is prostituting themselves against God when they start seeking supernatural help or guidance from any one else but Him!

"......a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. For all who do these things are an abomination to the Lord, and because of these abominations the Lord your God drives them out from before you.” (Deuteronomy 18:9)

“So Saul died for his unfaithfulness which he had committed against the Lord, because he did not keep the word of the Lord, and also because he consulted a medium for guidance.” (1 Chronicles 10:13)

King Saul got into big trouble with God when he asked a witch to call up the prophet Samuel who had already died. He literally incurred the wrath of God when he did this, and this eventually led to his downfall and early death.

Notice the verse says that the reason Saul was trying to call up Samuel was for guidance. Instead of going direct to God the Father for the guidance that he was needing, he tries to contact one of God’s dead saints. Samuel was a great man and a great prophet of God, but God was wanting Saul to come directly to Him for any guidance that he was needing, not to a dead saint!

The RCC can teach whatever they want (and they do) - but for Catholics to say the RCC teachings/doctrines align up with God's Word is a lie from the pit as has been proven with Scripture after Scripture.
64 posted on 11/04/2010 9:55:24 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: presently no screen name

Grreat post! There are so many things for an RCC to contemplate in your post. Good job, presently!


65 posted on 11/04/2010 10:06:33 PM PDT by smvoice (Defending the Indefensible: The Pride of a Pawn.)
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To: smvoice

Hi smvoice! ;)

Is it getting worse or have I reached my limit in reading such offenses against God’s Word?


66 posted on 11/04/2010 10:14:51 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: Salvation

Good post!


67 posted on 11/05/2010 6:50:25 AM PDT by FourtySeven (47)
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To: Salvation; Melchior

That’s a good explanation of how the promise to the thief can be reconciled with the concept of Purgatory.

I’ve thought myself that it’s also possible he went directly to Heaven (after it’s gates were open) as his time on his cross could be thought of as his own purgation. IOW, it’s entirely possible that his suffering then served to purge him of any attachment to sin he had. Indeed, for him to acknowledge his sin to Christ so freely indicates, at least to me, his attachment to sin at that point was quite low, if not zero. Also, the other theif provides a contrast to this, as he continued to mock Christ (thus still had an attachment to sin).

This concept is, I believe, quite in line with Catholic teaching; I believe it’s entirely acceptable to believe someone may have endured sufficient purgation here on Earth either by their own device or suffering imposed by another. (Terri Schiavo comes to mind here). Thus such people would go directly to Heaven.


68 posted on 11/05/2010 7:05:25 AM PDT by FourtySeven (47)
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To: Judith Anne; RnMomof7

It is a very provocative statement. I’ve been trying to find its original source myself, but a Googling of the quote in question provides little fruit. The best I could find for an original citation was “St. Catherine of Siena, SCS, p. 201-202, p. 222, (quoted in Apostolic Digest, by Michael Malone, Book 5: “The Book of Obedience”, Chapter 1: “There is No Salvation Without Personal Submission to the Pope”).”

But this doesn’t seem to be a primary source. At least I’m not sure what that citation means. Does it mean the quote is found on pages 200-201, 222 of “St Catherine of Siena, SCS”, (whatever that is) or in the other work? Also, the pages mentioned seem odd, as if it’s a reference to the quote, but not the entire writing.

A reading of the entire writing where the excerpt is found is clearly required. From a Googling of the quote in question, it seems clear the topic St Catherine was writing about was obedience to the Pope. Thus the context may be hyperbolic in nature, to drive home a point. Indeed, Catholic teaching itself makes it impossible for the Pope to ever be “Satan Incarnate”. So to believe St Catherine was actually suggesting this as a possibility is illogical, to say the least. Again, she must have been making a broader point using hyperbole.

A thorough reading of the quote in context is required before such a quote can be used to discredit St. Catherine of Siena’s ability to reason.


69 posted on 11/05/2010 7:51:23 AM PDT by FourtySeven (47)
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To: FourtySeven; RnMomof7

Frankly, I think the statement was made up. Since RnMomof7 has not given a link to her source for the statement, it becomes clear that either the source, or the statement, or both, are questionable.


70 posted on 11/05/2010 9:05:21 AM PDT by Judith Anne (Holy Mary, Mother of God, please pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death.)
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To: Melian
Wrong. Paul said clearly that he worked out his salvation every day in fear and trembling.

It is very important to rightly divide the word of God.. to do that one must read the text within its context and not TRY to proof text... 1st Paul NEVER SAID he was "working out HIS salvation"... now lets look at the text..in context

Paul was very fond of the church at Phillipipi..He was their pastor.. this is a sort of good-bye letter to them . Paul was leaving a church he founded and taught and led , he was going to send Timothy to them, but for a time they would be without a pastor. He was giving loving instructions to the church on how to live out their faith (not how to be saved)

. With that in mind, let us look at the text

<< Philippians 2 >>

1If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies,
2Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.
3Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.
4Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.
5Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

12Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

13For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Here Paul is telling them they will have to grow spiritually without him there.. Notice he affirms their salvation, he does not say work to be saved, they are saved and now need to walk in that ... but he comforts their fears of being alone.. not to worry my little ones because IT IS GOD THAT WORKS IN YOU TO DO HIS WILL

He made it very clear it’s not a done deal.

As you can not see he did no such thing ..he affirmed their salvation

Scripture, Christ’s parables, and Paul, support the idea of Purgatory.

You keep saying that but provide no scripture to support purgatory from the mouth of Christ or the apostles..because non exists

71 posted on 11/05/2010 10:38:53 AM PDT by RnMomof7 (post menopausal harpy here ....)
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To: FourtySeven; Judith Anne
"Even if the Pope were Satan incarnate, we ought not to raise up our heads against him, but calmly lie down to rest on his bosom. He who rebels against our Father is condemned to death, for that which we do to him we do to Christ: we honor Christ if we honor the Pope; we dishonor Christ if we dishonor the Pope. I know very well that many defend themselves by boasting: "They are so corrupt, and work all manner of evil!" But God has commanded that, even if the priests, the pastors, and Christ-on-earth were incarnate devils, we be obedient and subject to them, not for their sakes, but for the sake of God, and out of obedience to Him." St. Catherine of Siena, SCS, p. 201-202, p. 222
72 posted on 11/05/2010 10:45:29 AM PDT by RnMomof7 (post menopausal harpy here ....)
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To: RnMomof7

That’s not a link.


73 posted on 11/05/2010 10:53:08 AM PDT by Judith Anne (Holy Mary, Mother of God, please pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death.)
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To: Judith Anne

look it up


74 posted on 11/05/2010 11:04:02 AM PDT by RnMomof7 (post menopausal harpy here ....)
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To: RnMomof7

Several people have not found any site online. Got a link?


75 posted on 11/05/2010 11:54:09 AM PDT by Judith Anne (Holy Mary, Mother of God, please pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death.)
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To: Judith Anne

I found it online.. google is your friend..I gave you the source..


76 posted on 11/05/2010 1:01:18 PM PDT by RnMomof7 (post menopausal harpy here ....)
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To: RnMomof7

Since there has been trouble before, with sources, and since I normally have no trouble finding them, I can only conclude that you do not have one.


77 posted on 11/05/2010 1:54:13 PM PDT by Judith Anne (Holy Mary, Mother of God, please pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death.)
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To: RnMomof7; Salvation; All

Never mind, I apologize, I found the source for your cut-n-paste comment in 41.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Real authoritative....NOT!!!

Another “tract” anti-Catholic bigot ministry.

http://www.lightministries.com/id523.htm#evil_1

The geocities web address given for that quote at the link, however, is no longer working. So, there is no way to check if the link given with the quote is accurate, or to check the context.

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Troy/6480/catholics/apostolic5chp1.html

Looks like junk to me.


78 posted on 11/05/2010 2:10:48 PM PDT by Judith Anne (Holy Mary, Mother of God, please pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death.)
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To: Judith Anne; Salvation; All

Actually it is a quote from a book written by a Catholic

Name:”Apostolic Digest” by Michael MaloneCategory:Common Interest - Religion & SpiritualityDescription:
These masterful quotations single out the authentic teaching of the Catholic Church on a key dogma of the Faith which is now universally denied by nearly everyone. The denial of this dogma, which has been infallibly defined, can be directly linked to the unraveling of every belief of the Catholic Church and the consequent firestorm of sin that is now sweeping the world with ever- increasing fury. No book published during the last 100 years contains more powerful teachings and important truths than this awesome collection of certified and fully-indexed quotations from the Bible, Decrees of Popes and Councils; excerpts from the early Fathers of the Church; citations from hundreds of Doctors of the Church; writings of Saints, Blessed and Venerabili; dozens of Official Catechisms and Indulgence Prayers. Devastating information all taken from books carrying an Imprimatur. No one can remain indifferent to the true Faith after paging through this magnificent work. Each quote is referenced for research. (read less)
Privacy Type:Open: All content is public.
Contact Info

Website:http://www.catholictreasures.com/cartdes...
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/1...

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=193300619058


79 posted on 11/05/2010 4:08:06 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: RnMomof7

:...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.”

Exactly, he is telling his Philippian church, who are already believers and have accepted Christ as their savior, that they need to continue to work out their salvation with fear and trembling.

Your post illustrates my point. They ALREADY believe. In your book, they should be already saved. But Paul is telling them they need to CONTINUE to work out their own INDIVIDUAL salvations with FEAR and TREMBLING. Why fear and tremble? Because it can be lost. They can fall into sin and error and lose the opportunity to achieve Heaven.

It’s no accident that Paul is talking about obedience here. Christ requires obedience to His word. It is logical to assume if one is disobedient to His word, there is a price to pay. Remember, not everyone who calls Him “Lord, Lord” will be saved.

In other words, from Christ’s own mouth, as you asked, we learn that not everyone who believes in Him and calls Him Lord will be saved. More IS required.


80 posted on 11/05/2010 4:41:54 PM PDT by Melian ("Life's tough... it's even tougher if you're stupid." ~ John Wayne)
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To: Melian

I posted the entire scripture. with the context and you still can not read it with any level of understanding ..so i have one more for you

1Cr 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.


81 posted on 11/05/2010 4:51:33 PM PDT by RnMomof7 (Gal 4:16 asks "Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?")
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To: presently no screen name

The Catholic Church is the most scriptural, obedient, holy, historical, unified, and beautiful Church— of course it is, it was started by Christ Himself. He guides it through the Holy Spirit to this day.

I’ve given you Scriptural passages that make the case for Purgatory, including one from Christ’s own mouth. It’s no lie.

Catholics to not add to salvation, they continue to work to be worthy of it every day. It’s a life of service and sacrifice and love; it’s what Christ requires of followers. Remember the good man who asked what more he needed to do to get to Heaven? He believed. But Christ required even more of him. What did Christ require? More WORKS of love and sacrifice. THEN he’d be worthy of heaven.

The premise of faith alone does not hold up. Christ’s own words deny the concept.


82 posted on 11/05/2010 4:52:19 PM PDT by Melian ("Life's tough... it's even tougher if you're stupid." ~ John Wayne)
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To: presently no screen name

You wrote:
“I am proud, thankful and Joyful that I am no longer a Catholic. If you are into the demonic.. Don’t feel bad - freedom in Christ is not something everyone wants. Bondage feels better to Catholics.”

I am sorry for you that you are no longer Catholic. I could never walk away from the Eucharist and the fulness of the Faith, the guidance of the Holy Spirit, the wealth of spiritual knowledge and history, and truth.

To be Catholic is to have it all. Everything Christ and the Holy Spirit have shared with man is still lived and taught in the Catholic Church. And I want it ALL. Not bits and pieces. Not snipped or re-punctuated. Not watered down by any man.

Frankly, anything less than Catholic is Christian-lite. The Catholic Church hasn’t thrown doctrine away when the going got tough. I like that. I choose to be Catholic. And I’m humbled, thankful, and relieved that I am. It’s the toughest religion there is!

In your honor, I have changed my tagline.


83 posted on 11/05/2010 5:03:34 PM PDT by Melian (Catholicism is the Chuck Norris of religions.)
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To: RnMomof7

I did read it. I do understand it. And I say, with humility and thankfulness, that discernment happens to be one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit that I have received. It’s one of my special gifts from God and people have commented on my ability to discern my whole life.

So, whoops, the fact that we read that passage differently may actually be a problem of discernment- but not mine. I am reading the passage correctly.


84 posted on 11/05/2010 5:09:59 PM PDT by Melian (Catholicism is the Chuck Norris of religions.)
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To: RnMomof7

Neither of those links contain the quote. The link I found, however, does.


85 posted on 11/05/2010 5:14:01 PM PDT by Judith Anne (Holy Mary, Mother of God, please pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death.)
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To: RnMomof7

Additional Scripture to support Purgatory:
2 Mac 12: 42-46, Mt 12:32, Luke 12: 58, Luke 16:19-31, 1 Cor 3: 10-15, 1 Pet 3:19, Rev 21: 27.


86 posted on 11/05/2010 5:17:51 PM PDT by Melian (Catholicism is the Chuck Norris of religions.)
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To: RnMomof7

From Christ’s own lips:

Matt 7:21 “Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.”

A life lived with faith is what is required. Not just faith.


87 posted on 11/05/2010 5:23:33 PM PDT by Melian (Catholicism is the Chuck Norris of religions.)
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To: presently no screen name

From Christ’s own lips:

Matt 7: 21 “Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.”

Notice he says “me” so the speakers believe He is Lord and are calling Him Lord. They are already believers. Christ makes it clear that they are NOT saved unless they live out faith in their daily lives.


88 posted on 11/05/2010 5:26:29 PM PDT by Melian (Catholicism is the Chuck Norris of religions. See Matt 7: 21)
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To: Melian
Since even Satan that use to stand before God believes, that doesn't give him access to heaven....so how could belief along get anyone into heaven...since he also knows of Christ, and surly believes that is why he fights so hard against those that carry that name, belief alone would not get him anyplace except hell..If you believe in Christ, you must also do as he did with works...

Don't remember which book of the NT says it, but to paraphrase, show me a mans works and I will tell you whom he believes in...faith without works is dead....:O) agree with you....

Works include feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, housing the homeless, spreading the good news of salvation etc...not sitting in some little enclave patting each other on the back for your beliefs...jmho

89 posted on 11/05/2010 5:45:50 PM PDT by goat granny
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To: goat granny

Great post, goat granny. You sound like a wise woman.

The devil knows Christ exists. He also knows Christ is our Savior. But the devil wouldn’t DO what God asked; that’s why he’s not in Heaven today. I had not thought of this point in that way before. Thank you!


90 posted on 11/05/2010 5:50:29 PM PDT by Melian (Catholicism is the Chuck Norris of religions. See Matt 7: 21)
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To: Melian
The Catholic Church is the most scriptural, obedient, holy, historical, unified, and beautiful Church— of course it is, it was started by Christ Himself.

You can say that to your last breath - and it will NEVER make it so. Some just learn the hard way, so be it.

He guides it through the Holy Spirit to this day.

God's Word is Holy Spirit inspired. He doesn't NOT go against Who He is. He is not part of the RCC man made doctrines or the RCC's deliberate twisting of Scripture. To say HE guides that deception is saying the Holy Spirit is deceptive and that's not wise. Check on what the 'unpardonable sin' is. Catholics are really digging themselves an eternal hole and have no one to blame but themselves.

I’ve given you Scriptural passages that make the case for Purgatory, including one from Christ’s own mouth. It’s no lie.

The Vatican's interpretation is deceptive. Along with their heresy teaching of Mary as co-redeemer. If you would use some wisdom you might be able to see the deception.

From the beginning satan wanted to be like God and could never be. So if he couldn't, he deceives to make 'man' as a co-redeemer - a man aligned to the status of God. Anyone who believes that does NOT know God. They only know 'of HIM'. Satan deceives with purgatory with 'Jesus isn't enough' with one must still pay a penalty. So you see, anything to make Jesus less of who He really is. And no one can say that's not true by confessing that Jesus is this or that to them means NOTHING - because anyone with that belief - He has a co-redeemer or one must pay a penalty to finish the work of salvation - DOES NOT KNOW HIM!

they continue to work to be worthy of it every day.

Buy a clue - No one will EVER be worthy! What kind of PRIDE is that? WOW! Leave it to satan to lead some into thinking they can be worthy of something that they can never attain - he uses deception because, obviously, it works. No one will ever be worthy - that's why it is a GIFT because we CANNOT - we are UNABLE to - earn it.

The premise of faith alone does not hold up. Christ’s own words deny the concept.

Excuse me, who said anything about faith alone? Show me where I said that? GRACE! GRACE! GRACE! And we accept the GIFT of salvation by GRACE through Faith. Something Catholics are clueless about - 'a Gift' given by grace.

The next time you buy someone a GIFT - make sure you have the recipient pay for it in some way. After all, you must live by your Catholic beliefs. They may say - keep your gift since it shows not a giving heart. And that's what Catholics have aligned themselves with. That kind of giving - has the fingerprints of satan on it. And that kind of heart doesn't describe the All Loving God, who so loved the world...

Enjoy the fire you think is so beautiful.
91 posted on 11/05/2010 6:12:54 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: presently no screen name

I guess one must resort to nastiness when the facts are not on one’s side.

Perhaps the unpardonable sin against the Holy Spirit is turning one’s back on the Church the Spirit is guiding and living in. Or knowing the truth about the Eucharist but choosing not to be Catholic for some other trivial or selfish reason. The Spirit is Truth. To knowingly walk away from Truth would be unpardonable; that’s what Satan did.


92 posted on 11/05/2010 6:37:04 PM PDT by Melian (Catholicism is the Chuck Norris of religions. See Matt 7: 21)
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To: Melian
I guess one must resort to nastiness when the facts are not on one’s side.

What you call nastiness is really TRUTH! The RCC man-made facts are on your side and I don't want them near me, I long ago rid myself of them. NOW, TRUTH is on my side, JESUS!! THANK YOU, JESUS!

Perhaps the unpardonable sin against the Holy Spirit is turning one’s back on the Church the Spirit is guiding and living in. Or knowing the truth about the Eucharist but choosing not to be Catholic for some other trivial or selfish reason.

To make it more clear - you mention church - there are many churches but there is ONLY ONE CHURCH where JESUS is The Head and within the members of HIS Church, the Holy Spirit lives. That said, I chose to be a child of The Most High God, not a Catholic. No middleman to cause deception! Free at last!

The Spirit is Truth. To knowingly walk away from Truth would be unpardonable; that’s what Satan did.

God's Word is Holy Spirit inspired - NOT the catechism nor man-made teachings. So to accept man-made teachings/doctrine is willingly accepting things not of God, and that leads to deception as has been revealed by His Word.

ONE God, ONE Savior, ONE Church. NEVER a co-redeemer - what demonic heresy! The next thing up Mary may be assigned 'co-head of the RCC church' since evil knows no bounds.
93 posted on 11/05/2010 7:15:13 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: Melian
I'm very well aware of that and hope Catholics heed it. They don't seem to heed much of His Word - and who HE says his mother is - is prime example of that. They not only ignore His teachings but lift her up to co-redeemer and every other status!

Christ makes it clear that they are NOT saved unless they live out faith in their daily lives.

Live out faith? Duh! Christianity is a faith walk! That's why man made doctrine and 'earthly' knowledge of who a mother is - and assign that to His heavenly Kingdom is NOT living by faith. Faith is NOT earthly knowledge. Do you see now how man-made (earthly) teachings are destructive and have NO place in His Kingdom.

I know you sent it to me FOR me but I'm NOT the one believing man-made earthly teachings and giving credence to a 'co-redeemer' of salvation based on an 'earthly knowledge' of what a mother is. Not only believing it but spreading it as if it is Truth. REMEMBER: His Kingdom is not tainted by 'man' anything. Unless one is walking by faith, they are not a Christian - just someone saying 'Lord, Lord'. And without HIS WORD ALONE, one can't do it because we need to renew our mind with HIS WORD and cast those sacred cows from man-made teachings out.
94 posted on 11/05/2010 7:47:07 PM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: presently no screen name
Do you see now how man-made (earthly) teachings are destructive and have NO place in His Kingdom.

Including, of course, this statement from YOU.

REMEMBER: His Kingdom is not tainted by 'man' anything.

Except, of course, that Christ Jesus was fully MAN and fully GOD.

And without HIS WORD ALONE, one can't do it because we need to renew our mind with HIS WORD

What about His Grace? What about His gift of Faith? Reformed teaching is straining at gnats to swallow a camel.

95 posted on 11/06/2010 3:02:50 AM PDT by Judith Anne (Holy Mary, Mother of God, please pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death.)
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To: presently no screen name
Do you see now how man-made (earthly) teachings are destructive and have NO place in His Kingdom.

Including, of course, this statement from YOU.

REMEMBER: His Kingdom is not tainted by 'man' anything.

Except, of course, that Christ Jesus was fully MAN and fully GOD.

And without HIS WORD ALONE, one can't do it because we need to renew our mind with HIS WORD

What about His Grace? What about His gift of Faith? Reformed teaching is straining at gnats to swallow a camel.

96 posted on 11/06/2010 3:03:29 AM PDT by Judith Anne (Holy Mary, Mother of God, please pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death.)
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To: Judith Anne
that Christ Jesus was fully MAN and fully GOD'

His Kingdom! Got it? You got the Darwin Award for that response. Your mantel must be full by now.

What about His Grace? What about His gift of Faith

READ the post - don't pick and chose - it's SO CATHOLIC!
97 posted on 11/06/2010 3:11:01 AM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: presently no screen name

Reformed teaching is straining at gnats to swallow a camel.


98 posted on 11/06/2010 3:23:48 AM PDT by Judith Anne (Holy Mary, Mother of God, please pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death.)
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To: Judith Anne

I see you have a stuttering problem.


99 posted on 11/06/2010 3:25:27 AM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: Judith Anne

The book is available on Amazon... buy it if you doubt it


100 posted on 11/06/2010 6:59:42 AM PDT by RnMomof7 (Gal 4:16 asks "Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?")
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