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The on-going "Who Killed More" Debate: Muslims or Christians
11/10/2010 | Peter from Rutland

Posted on 11/10/2010 5:58:28 AM PST by Peter from Rutland

I get in way too many arguments with liberals. I recently cross-posted an article from American Thinker on my Facebook page (http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/11/de_facto_shariah_law_in_americ.html).

One of my more liberal friends made the usual statement that Christians have killed more people than Muslims, which I find VERY hard to believe. It's pretty obvious that Aetheists have killed far more (Hitler, Stalin, Mao) but we get back to the argument: muslims or christians?

I've searched the 'net with no real definite answer. Anyone?


TOPICS: Current Events; Religion & Culture; Theology
KEYWORDS: islam; islamonazism; waronterror; whywefight
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1 posted on 11/10/2010 5:58:32 AM PST by Peter from Rutland
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To: Peter from Rutland

The question is who killed more based on the tenants of their religion? If someone kills a lot of people who has to be a Christian, that goes against the tenants of Christianity. While with Islam, many times it is done in the name of and following the tenants of their religion.


2 posted on 11/10/2010 6:00:31 AM PST by mnehring
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To: Peter from Rutland

The answer is that having this argument with liberals is playing into their hands.


3 posted on 11/10/2010 6:00:59 AM PST by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin! (look it up))
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To: Peter from Rutland

BTW, Hitler wasn’t an atheist, he was an occultist.


4 posted on 11/10/2010 6:01:24 AM PST by mnehring
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To: Peter from Rutland

It’s hard to judge as Muslim countries aren’t very open about their activities. Only after Saddam fell did we find the hundreds of mass graves in Iraq, for example.


5 posted on 11/10/2010 6:01:48 AM PST by A_perfect_lady (Islam is as Islam does.)
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To: mnehring

Good point.


6 posted on 11/10/2010 6:02:11 AM PST by Peter from Rutland
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To: Peter from Rutland

Their argument is a canard.

Keep them focused on “in modern times”

Since the radio was invented, nations can converse/ communicate with each other and their populace in near real time.

There is no current excuse for the barbarism of fanatical Islam in this day and age. Period.

Al Gore invented the internet last century. Islamic terrorists use it ALL the time.

Barbarism *IS* the MO of Islam. Barbarism *IS NOT* the MO of Christianity or western civilisations. Period.


7 posted on 11/10/2010 6:02:36 AM PST by Blueflag (Res ipsa loquitur)
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To: Peter from Rutland
This is a time-wasting, "my daddy can whip your daddy" exercist and is just for mis-direction of the point.

Nothing in that argument gives muslims a right to take over America and convert it to sharia law.

Any person that can be "convered" from Chistianity to islam, was not a Christian to begin with.
8 posted on 11/10/2010 6:02:51 AM PST by FrankR (Don't let the bastards wear you down!)
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To: Peter from Rutland

Instead of focusing on pure numbers of who killed more. Look at the reasons for the killing. Christians will kill in order to protect themselves and others who need defending. Muslims agressively kill for domination. Christians respond to defeat evil.


9 posted on 11/10/2010 6:03:57 AM PST by MichiganCheese (I "gotta sit in the back with all the other typical bitter clinging enemies"!)
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To: Peter from Rutland
Who killed more?

Atheists. Add up Mao's, Lenin's, Stalin's, Pol Pot's, and Uncle Ho's numbers. Not even close.

10 posted on 11/10/2010 6:04:25 AM PST by behzinlea
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To: Peter from Rutland

Why don’t you simply put this stipulation into the argument:

Who is killing more TODAY?

Or,

IN THE LAST 100 YEARS who has killed more?

Isn’t that what this is all about? What are we going to do about the problem in MODERN TIMES? No need to dust off the history books to solve this riddle.


11 posted on 11/10/2010 6:05:14 AM PST by earlJam
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To: Peter from Rutland

I’ve given up arguing with insane people.


12 posted on 11/10/2010 6:06:16 AM PST by vanilla swirl (We are the Patrick Henry we have been waiting for!)
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To: Peter from Rutland
The Crusades were a defensive war that began as a response to centuries of Moslem aggression. The Christians ultimately lost, so I think it's safe to say that Moslems won that killing contest.

The Spanish Inquisition lasted over a century, and -- in total -- killed about 5000 people. Compare that with 9/11 in which Moslems killed 3000 people in one morning.

Aside from the Inquisition and the Crusades, I cannot think of any other events which were specifically inspired by the Christian faith and which resulted in any significant deaths.

Liberals may mention Christians coming to the New World and the massive Indian die-off that followed, but no diseases were spread deliberately, and deaths were not caused specifically by religious zeal.

On the other hand, Islamic jihad has been going on for 15 centuries and has killed millions. Just look at the history of India -- conquerors like Tamerlane did nasty work there. It's all documented.

13 posted on 11/10/2010 6:06:37 AM PST by ClearCase_guy
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To: Peter from Rutland
I vote that the Mexican drug cartel has killed more!
14 posted on 11/10/2010 6:06:51 AM PST by 2001convSVT ("Repeal ObamaCare")
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To: Peter from Rutland

1. If they’re referring to the Crusades (they usually are), this never would have happened at all except for Muslim killings in present-day Israel and the region.

2. Beyond the Crusades, it’s pretty clear that Christians aren’t involved in killings for the sake of Christ — but as a rule or the Koran, Muslims are STILL involved in killings for the sake of Mohammed. Just yesterday: news of a Pakistani woman sentenced to hang under Sharia law — allegedly for blaspheming Mohammed. I frankly don’t understand how you blaspheme anyone except God in the first place, but this should reveal all anyone needs to know.


15 posted on 11/10/2010 6:07:13 AM PST by alancarp (Please don't tell Obama what comes after "trillion")
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To: Peter from Rutland

Considering that in the allegedly “Christian nation” of the U.S. since 1973 politically-sanctioned abortions have murdered 50 million unborn children (when does the number qualify as genocide?), the debate on the “winner” could be close.


16 posted on 11/10/2010 6:07:36 AM PST by Carl Vehse
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To: Peter from Rutland

“One of my more liberal friends made the usual statement that Christians have killed more people than Muslims”

When I get this SAME statement from many lefties,I ask them:

Where would you rather live, a mostly Islamic Nation or a mostly Christian Nation???

The lefties just start mumbling about multiculturalism and begin to change the subject.


17 posted on 11/10/2010 6:07:53 AM PST by Le Chien Rouge
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To: Peter from Rutland

Seems to me that time framing would have precedence. Worrying about ancient history is silly. Worrying about present dangers would be more imporant.


18 posted on 11/10/2010 6:07:53 AM PST by LRS ("This is silly! It can't be! It can't be!!" "Oh yes it is! I said you wouldn't know the joint.")
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To: mnehring; MHGinTN

Technically, the world’s lead killers are all socialists : but abortionists coming right in at the top above Mao and well above Stalin! - at number one with 45 million in the US alone.

Add about 10-20 million in the USSR, another 22 million to 40 million in the rest of Europe, and of course, 60 to 80 million more in China with the one-child policy.

Hitler was a low-level piker compared to Mao, Stalin, and those worldwide totals.


19 posted on 11/10/2010 6:08:08 AM PST by Robert A. Cook, PE (I can only donate monthly, but socialists' ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: cripplecreek
Bingo.


20 posted on 11/10/2010 6:09:06 AM PST by 1rudeboy
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To: Peter from Rutland
How about Christianity has the bloodier past while Islam has the bloodier present?
21 posted on 11/10/2010 6:09:34 AM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: mnehring
The question is who killed more based on the tenants of their religion?

That's the real question, but leftists throw the other out as a red herring. It's always amusing to hear wooden headed progressives lump Tim McVeigh in as an example when talking about the causes of 9/11. McVeigh, Hitler, Stalin , Mao etc never killed in the name of religion.

Anyone serious simply needs to go back to what the founders of both religions taught and the answer is painfully obvious.

22 posted on 11/10/2010 6:10:03 AM PST by YankeeReb
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To: Peter from Rutland
All I know is if the Christians had succeeded in ending the Arafat, Bin Ladin and Obama bloodlines centuries ago, the World would be a much better place today. Barry's father might have been an American citizen who loved this Country.
23 posted on 11/10/2010 6:10:27 AM PST by Dixie Yooper (Ephesians 6:11)
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To: Peter from Rutland
This is the wrong debate. It is like body counts in the Vietnam war.

Ask your liberal friend if they believe there is any difference living in a predominantly Christian, post-Enlightenment, Western liberal democracy and living in a predominantly Muslim, Middle Eastern, Sharia based society. Ask your liberal friend to answer the question which of the two societies he or she would rather live in. Ask you liberal friend if Islam is compatible with the Enlightenment. Ask you liberal friend if Islam has had one or more reformations similar to reformed Judaism, Protestantism, and post-Vatican 2 Catholicism. Ask your liberal friend to compare Islam today to Christianity today, not to compare Islam today to Christianity during the Middle Ages.

Oh, and don't forget to ask your liberal friend if they "tolerate" stoning women, killing those who practice other religions, killing homosexuals, etc.

Ask your friend if they prefer to live in a nation of laws or a nation of men.

Simply put, this is not a comparison to Islam vs. Christianity. This is a comparison of Barbarism to post-Enlightenment Western Civilization, period.

24 posted on 11/10/2010 6:10:59 AM PST by magellan
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To: Peter from Rutland

bump for later


25 posted on 11/10/2010 6:11:32 AM PST by Mr. Silverback (Anyone who says we need illegals to do the jobs Americans won't do has never watched "Dirty Jobs.")
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To: Peter from Rutland

Are Christians taught to emulate Jesus? Are Muslims taught to emulate Mohammed? Did Jesus form an army and engage in warfare? Did Mohammed? Can an indivdual engage in acts of terrorism and be a good Christian? Can an individual engage in acts of terrorism and be a good Muslim?

Also, I happened to nitice that Wikipedia’s pages on Islam have apparently been edited by very Islam-friendly hands. The articles on Christianity, much lsess so - at least that’s how it appeatred to me.


26 posted on 11/10/2010 6:12:07 AM PST by cvq3842
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To: Non-Sequitur

How about Christianity has the bloodier past while Islam has the bloodier present?”

Because it isn’t true.


27 posted on 11/10/2010 6:12:34 AM PST by achilles2000 ("I'll agree to save the whales as long as we can deport the liberals")
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To: mnehring
LOL your spell checker hates you.

FRiend, the spelling is 'tenets'. Slums have tenants, religions and legal codes have tenets (a tenet = something you hold, as in tener = to hold).

28 posted on 11/10/2010 6:12:42 AM PST by agere_contra (...what if we won't eat the dog food?)
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To: ClearCase_guy

There was only one recorded instance of deliberate infection. The delivery of small-pox infected blankets by Jeffrey Amherst in 1763.

This was a source of outrage among Christian society just like the brutal stories of Spanish conquest of South America was used by other Europeans to tarnish the name of Spain.

The difference is so obvious! If this had been Muslims they would praise Allah for the slaughter!


29 posted on 11/10/2010 6:12:44 AM PST by Soothesayer (“None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license...")
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To: Peter from Rutland

So far, no one has been able to win a debate with me on this point:
Christians follow the example of Christ. You simply can not pattern your life after the life of Christ and justify killing others for not believing the same.
Islams follow the example of Mohammed. If you pattern your life after Mohammed, you actually have to justify killing others for not believing the same.


30 posted on 11/10/2010 6:12:50 AM PST by Flying right
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To: Peter from Rutland

Regardless of who has killed more, can’t they even agree that it is wrong? This is a typical strategy of liberals to use flawed logic to justify their positions. They don’t know how to think critically, they only know how to attack. When do two wrongs make a right? Only in the world of the liberal thinker.

Next time someone says that, don’t try to prove them wrong. Point out the flaw in their logic. They hate that. Mostly because they usually don’t know how to respond. Expect ad hominems to follow.

In this case, if the issue is the recent rise in Muslims killing Christians in the Middle East, just ask them if it’s their position that in their worldview, if more Muslims have been killed by Christians, then it’s fine for Muslims to keep killing Christians until they’re even? How does that fit their liberal mindset of tolerance?

The problem with liberals is they can’t logically defend their positions. They can’t because their positions contradict each other on so many issues. In this case, they are trying to seem tolerant by understanding the Muslim point of view—even to the point of arguing that killing people is, if not justified, is at least understandable. It’s nonsense.


31 posted on 11/10/2010 6:13:01 AM PST by erkyl (We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office --Aesop (~550 BC))
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To: cvq3842

Please excuse spelling errors. My passions sometimes get the best of me.


32 posted on 11/10/2010 6:13:23 AM PST by cvq3842
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To: MichiganCheese
Good points made here.

I'd like to add that the Crusades (specifically the ones fought in the Levant against muslims, as opposed to the Crusade against Catholic heretics in France) was purely defensive in nature, because they were fought solely to regain lands that had been occupied and oppressed by barbaric muslims.

When I read the names of the cities in the Bible that still exist, I am saddened that they are all in muslim hands today. Mediteranian Turkey and North Africa, for example.

So anytime an ignorant liberal runs out of arguments, and sputters "But but but...What about the Crusades?", you can just tell them to GTFO and take their ignorance with them.

But there is a deeper point to this thread: Why are you interacting with liberals in the first place? It is a dead end, FRiend. The time for dialog, sadly, is over.

33 posted on 11/10/2010 6:13:48 AM PST by I Buried My Guns (Novare Res!)
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To: YankeeReb
"It's always amusing to hear wooden headed progressives lump Tim McVeigh in as an example when talking about the causes of 9/11. McVeigh, Hitler, Stalin , Mao etc never killed in the name of religion."

McVeigh was an agnostic at best, and more likely an atheist, with a strong dislike of organized religion. The meme that McVeigh was a Christian is a lie propagated by the leftist/Islamic complex.

34 posted on 11/10/2010 6:13:48 AM PST by magellan
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To: magellan

Better yet, ask the liberal for some numbers of atheists in Christian nations vs atheists in muslim countries. Then we can talk about tolerance in the modern world.


35 posted on 11/10/2010 6:13:51 AM PST by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin! (look it up))
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE

That’s correct.

The biggest killers today (and of all time) are the worshipers of Moloch.


36 posted on 11/10/2010 6:15:11 AM PST by agere_contra (...what if we won't eat the dog food?)
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To: Peter from Rutland

Don’t argue numbers. Throw it back on them and ask which religion CONTINUES to murder THOUSANDS of people every year for their religion?

Which religion has REFUSED to move out of the 6th century?

Which religion says that it is okay to murder people who will not convert?

Which religion says that you can MURDER your way into heaven?

Which religion says that women are little more than property and continues to treat them as such?

Which religion tells their followers that it is okay to LIE about their religion in order to advance it?


37 posted on 11/10/2010 6:15:32 AM PST by Blood of Tyrants (Islam is the religion of Satan and Mohammed was his minion.)
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To: ClearCase_guy
'I cannot think of any other events which were specifically inspired by the Christian faith and which resulted in any significant deaths. '

The LRA. Professed Christians killing people.

38 posted on 11/10/2010 6:18:16 AM PST by Palter (If voting made any difference they wouldn't let us do it. ~ Mark Twain)
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To: Peter from Rutland

God will finish the job with the muslims.


39 posted on 11/10/2010 6:20:33 AM PST by thethirddegree
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To: cripplecreek

Other replies to the who killed more muslims or Christians question are who killed more, muslims or Hindus, or who killed more, muslims or Buddhists?

Notice the common ‘religion’ in all of these questions?


40 posted on 11/10/2010 6:21:25 AM PST by Let's Roll (Stop ACORN destroying America! Cut off their federal funding!)
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To: Peter from Rutland
I didn't even know there was such a debate.

Kind of like debating which animal eats more zebra, cheetahs or lions.

It sure as heck don't matter to the zebras...and the lions and cheetahs are fine with it as long as their bellies are full.

In other words... WHO THE HECK CARES???

41 posted on 11/10/2010 6:21:31 AM PST by Logic n' Reason (You can roll a turd in powered sugar; that don't make it a jelly donut)
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To: Peter from Rutland; All
Research information for the discussion,

Pre-twentieth century genocide and murder

Table of Selected pre-twentieth century democide and totals

And...

20th Century Democide


42 posted on 11/10/2010 6:22:05 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Peter from Rutland
killimg? lets see... the Christians quit 1000 years ago, the goathumpers on the other hand are still going strong
43 posted on 11/10/2010 6:22:15 AM PST by Chode (American Hedonist - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: agere_contra

lol, you were right and I was too ______ (lazy, tired, lacking coffee) to actually glance at it a second time myself.


44 posted on 11/10/2010 6:25:58 AM PST by mnehring
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To: behzinlea

‘Atheists. Add up Mao’s, Lenin’s, Stalin’s, Pol Pot’s, and Uncle Ho’s numbers. Not even close.’

Bingo! We have a winner!


45 posted on 11/10/2010 6:26:07 AM PST by edge10 (Obama lied, babies died!)
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To: Peter from Rutland

Religeous zealots are extremely dangerous and usually murderous, regardless of which god or God they champion. The world has seen most of its carnage in the name of god.


46 posted on 11/10/2010 6:26:13 AM PST by GingisK
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To: earlJam

Have them check out “thereligionofpeace.com” website. They keep a running tally of atrocities committed by ROP enthusiasts compared with those perpetrated by other religions. There is another website, “religionofpeace.com” that is a Muslim site that paints a picture of Islam as a benign,near-paradise on earth. Quite a contrast between the two.


47 posted on 11/10/2010 6:26:44 AM PST by Tard-cat
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To: Soothesayer; ClearCase_guy
There was only one recorded instance of deliberate infection. The delivery of small-pox infected blankets by Jeffrey Amherst in 1763.

This was a source of outrage among Christian society just like the brutal stories of Spanish conquest of South America was used by other Europeans to tarnish the name of Spain.

The difference is so obvious! If this had been Muslims they would praise Allah for the slaughter!

Not exactly true.

This is an oft-repeated tale, but it is based on a SINGLE LETTER from Amherst RECOMMENDING such blankets be distributed to the Indians. There is no written evidence that they ever were used. Then again, that doesn't fit the “White men are evil; Indians are pure and holy and natural” theme that elementary kids “need to be taught” by today's socialists.

48 posted on 11/10/2010 6:27:08 AM PST by Robert A. Cook, PE (I can only donate monthly, but socialists' ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: cripplecreek; narses; neverdem; MHGinTN

I was wrong:

Through 2008, Chinese Communists have apparently murdered 307,000,000 million innocents via deliberate abortions forced by the their state policies.


49 posted on 11/10/2010 6:28:55 AM PST by Robert A. Cook, PE (I can only donate monthly, but socialists' ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: Peter from Rutland

I have come to the conclusion that the only good Muzzie is a dead Muzzie.

That said, we have not made enough “good Muzzies”

Git some!

Semper Fi!


50 posted on 11/10/2010 6:29:37 AM PST by Howie66 (I can see November from my house.)
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