Skip to comments.The Three Legged Stool of Salvation
Posted on 11/12/2010 4:54:05 PM PST by Benchim
The first Leg on the Stool is Belief in Christ. Belief means to steadfastly trust in the fact-- that Jesus is the Son of God. The Greek word is pistevo. "For God so greatly loved the world that He gave up His only begotten Son, so that whoever believes in (trusts in, clings to, relies on) Him shall not perish but have eternal life" (John 3:16).
You will find nothing in the definition requiring "obedience" or "sinless" conduct .
(Excerpt) Read more at antinomianism-salvation.blogspot.com ...
Ahhh yes...but he hated his sin, he was not a slave to it,but a slave to Christ
Hating sin, and not looking for an excuse to enjoy it is a mark of salvation
>> You know the commandments: thou shalt not murder, thous shalt not commit adultery, thou shalt no bear false witness, thous shall not steal, thou shall not covet they neighbours wife? keep those and you will have ( eternal ) life.<<
What is the book, chapter and verse of that quote?
I believe in Jesus but the Bible is not to be worshiped. Jesus warned against worship of the scriptures. The Bible was a compilation of hundreds of written parchments 360 years after Christ and is badly flawed with outright contradictions and errors. http://antinomianism-salvation.blogspot.com/
You will find nothing in the definition of salvation requiring “obedience” or “sinless” conduct .
The Bible was a compilation of hundreds of written parchments 360 years after Christ and is badly flawed with outright contradictions and errors. http://antinomianism-salvation.blogspot.com/
And let me guess: The emperor Constantine is the big baddie here.
Where have you been taught?
“For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God”
Then how do you know any of it is true? Which parts are you going to accept and which parts will you reject?
What occurs in the study is that you cognitively know that something has happened. Those disciples and thousands of believers went to death with smiles on their faces. Jesus rose from the dead. Now is you go back and study that history (even though it is flawed) , the Holy Spirit directs you to truth. The truth is that God simply sacrificed His Son for my sins and yours too because we are all WRETCHED.
Yes. but on the Cross we received imputed righteousness == it is called “atonement” or “propitiation”.
It is from the story of Jesus and the rich young ruler who asks what to do to follow him. It is in all three of the synoptics I believe. However, Jesus is just confronting a Jewish man with the law the man thinks makes him righteous but who Jesus unmaskes as a sinner when the young man can't bring himself to give up his money to the poor and follow Jesus. So, the passage not only illustrates the righteousness of the law but, also, man's inability to follow it. Left to himself man always chooses the world over the Spirit.
Moses came down from the moutain with tablets defining God's nature as far as humans could comprehend it. God is not a man descended from Adam that He should murder, therefore 'Thou shalt not murder'. The ten commandments were a pretty good description of God's godliness and men descended from Adam did not have the spirit to be like that, like what the ten commandments describe in their totality. And the Hebrews immediately started whining for clarification, hence the other six hundred legalistic dictates in the book of the laws.
So for humankind to overcome the shortcoming of having inherited a sin nature from Adam, inherited a spirit which is called 'dead', it is necessary to be born again into God's nature, to be given an alive spirit through the earnest of our inheritance with the Holy Spirit into our human spirit. When one believes God, trusting that He sent His nature to be our 'soter' in the person of Jesus, we can have a new nature imparted to our dead spirit. Jesus explained it in total to Nicodemus in John chapter three.
"Neither against the law of the Jews, nor against the temple, nor against Caesar, have I offended in any thing." Acts 25:8In fact, Paul was quite adamant that he kept the law:
"But this I confess to you, that according to the Way, which they call a sect, I worship the God of our fathers, believing everything laid down by the Law and written in the Prophets" Acts 24:14And he required it of his followers:
So then, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the vision from heaven. First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.This "proving their repentence" was absolutely vital, not just a side aspect to their faith. In fact, he taught his followers they must shun those who sinned.
"But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat." 1 Cor 5:11He also plainly asserted that those who committed any of numerous grave sins would not enter Heaven:
"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind," I Cor 6:9Paul specifically addresses the notion of lawlessness in several places:
"the wisdom of the flesh is an enemy to God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither can it be. And they who are in the flesh, cannot please God." Rom 8:7-8
"Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, [even] thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows." - Hebrews 1:9 (If Paul is not the author of Hebrews, it is still biblical!)In fact, the only reference to the anti-Christ is one who preaches lawlessness: Let no man deceive you by any means: yet there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, and the son of perdition; Who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sits in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. Do you not remember that when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now you know what withholds that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity already is at work" 1 Thess 2:5-7 So how can we be saved? See, Christ conquers the law not by setting it aside, or by invalidating, but by forgiving us, he also salves us, so that we do not return to sinfulness:
Nevertheless the foundation of God stands sure, having this seal, The Lord knows those that are his. And, Let every one that names the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 1 Thess 2:19
So, basically, truth becomes what a person wants it to be. It's like Thomas Jefferson who when he didn't like something in scripture would cut the text out removing up to 10% of the scripture. If a person doesn't like a particular verse, or they think it's contradictory, then it is ignore rather then a person asking God for the wisdom to understand the text and studying to show thy self approved.
The fact is, while some versions are better than others, the scriptures are very simple to understand-all correct, true and holy. Man simply has warped and perverted the gospel with so much false doctrine that the scriptures become unintelligent. Rather than trying to straighten out their own doctrine, they would rather cut the bible to shreds. Claiming to be wise, they become fools.
“The Bible was a compilation of hundreds of written parchments 360 years after Christ and is badly flawed with outright contradictions and errors”
Yes, there are some translation errors from incorrect interpretations but the Bible’s hardly flawed. Remember there were different administrations with different sets of laws that don’t apply today. For example, man is now allowed one wife even though there were times early in the Old Testament where more than one was allowed. Understanding the different administrations explains the apparent contradictions.
But IMO Belief is NOT an empty word -but by rightly dividing the word is a term that requires action If one obeys what they have heard-and faith comes by hearing the word of God—then one is obedient. If one rejects what they hear it is unbelief.And there can be no salvation.And again IMO If one
merely claims I believe-but does not hasten to add prayer Help Thou my unbelief.Then one is governed by the action of unbelief.
Romans - Chapter 8
[There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
For to be carnally minded [is] death; but to be spiritually minded [is] life and peace.
Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness.
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
The point is, some one may say that if Christ was really in us we would not sin.
Then why did Paul go to all of that trouble writing Ch 8
and why would he admit that he was also a sinner in ch 7?
18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
42So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
“Neither against the law of the Jews, nor against the temple, nor against Caesar, have I offended in any thing.” Acts 25:8
>> Paul was not preaching to the Christians, he was defending himself against his accusers. <<
Yes, but his testimony was truthful!
Your history is quite flawed. No book of the bible was written after the time of the disciples, who knew Jesus personally. There were many excellent Christian books written between the death of John (c.90) and 360, read throughout Christendom and upholding orthodox Christianity, but they were not included, for righteous as they were they were not apostolic (written under the authority, if not the hand, of the apostles), and so they were not regarded as scripture. To be redundant so as to be clear, I don’t mean the wicked anti-scriptures of the Gnostics, like “the Gospel of Judas;” I mean theologically correct, approved throughout pre-Nicene and Catholic-era history, and cherished by the saints.
For example, “the Passion of Saints Perpetua and Felicity” was perhaps the most popularly read book of the ancient world.
There germ of truth behind the notion that the bible was written 360 years after Christ lies only in the fact that there was no single, authoritative translation for 360 years. But this makes sense: the bible was a Greek book; only after Greek declined as the lingua franca, so to speak, did the need for an authoritative translation arrive.
“WHAT?” you ask. “The bible wasn’t Hebrew? Surely you only mean the New Testament!”
Remember what I said about the need for apostolic authorship? That applied to the Old Testament as well as the New Testament. And here is the reason why a lot of people believed (until historians proved them wrong) that the New Testament must have been written long after the apostles:
Before Christ, certain books of Hebrew literature were translated into Greek. This included not only the books the Saduccees considered to be Holy Scripture (the Torah), or the books the Pharisees considered to be Holy Scripture (the Torah and the Prophets), but many other, more recent scrolls, as well, collectively called the Khetuvim. They were these books that the disciples quoted, not the Hebrew books. Only AFTER Jesus did the Jews decide in unison which of the Khetuvim were considered holy scripture, and which weren’t. (This, then is the difference between Catholic and Protestant bibles: Catholics follow the apostles’ selections, whereas Protestants follow the Jews’ more limited selections.)
The amazing thing, though is that the New Testament cites the GREEK Old Testament; Even Jesus is quoted as speaking wordings unique to the Greek. This led many skeptics in the 19th century to assert that the bible wasn’t directly quoting Jesus, because they wondered why would a Hebrew cite the Greek bible when speaking to Hebrews, instead of citing the Hebrew bible. And certainly the authors of the New Testament must have been so far removed from Hebrew culture that they couldn’t even recognize the apparent mistake.
Since that time, however, researchers found the caves at Qumran, the so-called “Dead Sea Scrolls,” preserved from the 3rd century B.C. to the first century A.D. Astonishingly, the biblical scrolls they found agreed with the Apostolic citations. In some cases, the scrolls had been back-translated from the Greek into Hebrew! What’s more, it became evident that John, the author of four biblical books, as well as the first disciples, (including Peter, the first pope) came from a religious tradition very closely associated with the Qumran sect. Suddenly, it became apparent that the literature familiar to the apostles was not the “Masoretic text” read by the Jews, but the Greek scriptures (or at least Hebrew versions of the Greek scriptures), and that “Greek nature” of the bible was, in fact, evidence that it was written by first-centuries Jews.
By the way, even St. Jerome bought into the false belief that the Masoretic text was superior to the Greek text. For this reason, nearly all Catholics’ and Protestants’ Old Testaments are based on the Hebrew, even thought the apostles preferred the Greek. Thus, when Jesus quotes the Old Testament, you can be quite perplexed to find out how “badly” he “misquotes” the Old Testament.
Salvation is the beginning of the Christian life, not the end / goal thereof. We are saved with a purpose beyond our own smug self-pleasuring with our own saved status. “For God so loved THE WORLD ... “ that He redeemed a race of caretakers for it. Eph. 2:10 gives us the “why” of our salvation, even as vss. 8 and 9 describe the “how.”
If your salvation is pointless, are you really saved?
“..are you really saved?” If I am not saved, no one is. All are sinners. Without the atonement ,you are doomed.
If your salvation is pointless, are you really saved?
It does no good for us to go around telling some one they are not saved, because they do this or that, in the first place it usually comes from their own mind and not the Bible.
Do not drink, do not smoke, etc, many preachers will whine about smoking more than they do adultery, why? because it makes them keep in tune with the world, the New World Order.
Christ within us is the only thing that will keep us from sin.
My beloved mentor, the ArmEnian Calvinist, once wrote an essay The Menace of the Sunday School. Sunday schools, you see, usually teach the religion of Moralism rather than Christianity. These institutions usually attract an abundance of moralistic souls, "old ladies of both sexes and all ages," to serve as SS teachers.
When people set aside the Law of God, it is usually to replace our Lord's light yoke and easy burden with the far more suffocating load of human tradition. God gives us two to-dos, and 8 to-don'ts, then leaves us to "work out our own salvation with fear and trembling." We bear fruit to God by being as good as possible at what He has called us to do -- and our callings are as unique as we are.
Legalism substitutes human rituals (such as altar calls) for God's grace, which makes us equal to the demands of life and death. People who fall into the La Brea tar pit of legalism have less energy left over for actually doing useful stuff to glorify God and bless our neighbors.
What do you think Legalism is?
IMHO, using God's Law as a mechanism for earning brownie points with the Almighty, rather than as an operator's manual for the best and happiest possible life. It is BECAUSE we are saved that we can profit from God's Word, and rejoice in His Law. It is BECAUSE we are saved that we can flip the bird to any idiots who want to put their own personal yokes on our necks.
Why did Jesus have to die, in your opinion?
To atone for our sins, and to restore us to some measure of what Adam lost.
But in post 28 you say: To atone for our sins, and to restore us to some measure of what Adam lost.
Post 25 gives the impression that keeping the law saves you. Post 28 says that Christ died to atone for our sins. Sins are the failure to keep the law.
Either the law saves, or Christ died for us because we could not keep the law. It cannot be both. Can it, in your opinion?
Legalism substitutes human rituals (such as altar calls) for God’s grace, which makes us equal to the demands of life and death. People who fall into the La Brea tar pit of legalism have less energy left over for actually doing useful stuff to glorify God and bless our neighbors.
One of the more depressing experiences a Biblical Christian can have is -- to read through the tracts in the lobby of the typical "evangelical" church. Time after time, a few basic themes get tarted up and recycled as though they were fresh, original, and engaging: the "Romans Road." the "Four Spiritual Laws." etc. After a while, you start to notice a fairly consistent pattern. All of these tracts studiously ignore, or are indifferent to, two minor items:
These tracts, alas, confuse and confound means and ends. These tracts make God our tool, God our toy, God the means to our ends.
Don't you have a little problem with that? I do.
Christ died to save us, from our sins, and from ourselves, so that we could truly live. We are God's means to His ends. We are saved to serve, and we find true joy in the King's service. Wearing His colors. Feasting at His table. Faithfully tending to the portion of the Kingdom He has stationed us in.
Masturbation focuses on inducing personal experiences in oneself. Marital love focuses on building and celebrating and enjoying a real and fruitful relationship with another. You seem to keep obsessing on a predefined personal experience. Your god seems to be no bigger than said moment of experience. If there is no point to being saved, then the salvation you are preaching is nothing more than spiritual self-abuse, and ultimately, self-worship.
 See this amazing quote from G K Chesterton:
 Speaking of the Romans Road, I'm blogging my way through the Book of Romans HERE. My goals are to learn Turkish by doing this, to invite Turks to consider the claims of Christ, and to invite English-speaking Christians to consider learning Turkish. I'm using the free Bible software available from http://e-sword.net to flip between the KJV, the Turkish, and the Greek versions of the text as I go along.
Just an observation, but I find it interesting that God the Holy Spirit can take the different verses used by Christ as different translations, yet still sanctify the believer who is thinking through them, through faith in Christ. This reveals His work may be much more simple and direct with each believer than we might always anticipate.
Thank You Lord!
Antinomianism is an opposite extreme to legalism.
Whereas legalism may lead to moral degeneracy from arrogance and “self-righteousness”, antinomianism may lead to immoral degeneracy, such as lasciviousness and lawlessness.
Very true. Hence, the appeal of antinomianism. Let me cite a verse from THIS POEM by Rudyard Kipling:
On the first Feminian Sandstones we were promised the Fuller Life
(Which started by loving our neighbour and ended by loving his wife)
Till our women had no more children and the men lost reason and faith,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "The Wages of Sin is Death."
In the Carboniferous Epoch we were promised abundance for all,
By robbing selected Peter to pay for collective Paul;
But, though we had plenty of money, there was nothing our money could buy,
And the Gods of the Copybook Headings said: "If you don't work you die."
Well, the action of the Holy Spirit has also worked in the translation of the scriptures, so that the translating does not introduce heresy. A very dramatic instance is the word, “alma.”
St. Jerome was commissioned to create an authoritative Latin translation of the bible. But how? There were countless subtly different versions of the Greek. The Jews had convinced St. Jerome, that the Masoretic Text was and always had been the sole Hebrew text, and therefore represented an authoritative source. (The Dead Sea Scrolls proved this false.)
The Masoretic Text says that the sign of the coming of the Messiah shall be that “a maiden (alma) will be with child and shall give birth to a son.” What kind of a miraculous sign is a woman having a child out of wedlock? Only the Greek preserved the miracle in the text: that a virgin shall be with child! But Jerome was convinced of the superiority of the Masoretic Text. He was about to remove from scripture the proof offered by the gospels that Jesus’ birth showed him to be the Messiah!
Only an apparition of Christ protected the bible from such a devestating error!
Other miraculous interventions to affirm the content of the bible include the inclusion of Mark 16 (the longer ending, which includes the Resurrection), the inclusion of John 7:53-8:11 (the stoning of the adulterous woman), and the inclusion of the trinitarian formulation, 1 John 5:7.
then why did paul write : “ we must make up what is lacking in the sufferings of Christ”.
there is the story of the blind man who was sitting by the “road” when he heard that Jesus was coming. he shouted out, “Jesus, Son of David”.... and Jesus asked what he wanted. “that i might see, he responded”. Jesus, cured his blindness, and said your faith has saved you. If faith alone would have cured his blindness, then why did the blind man have to cry out, and ask for his cure?
I’m not sure what you are saying. All must “cry out” that they believe.(and mean it ,or they go to hell.(1John 5:11-12) You might consider my ending page at http://antinomianism-salvation.blogspot.com/p/im-saved-what-now.html
I know you will agree.
how can i agree with someone who does not believe in what God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit has revealed?
In the last judgement, in Matthew, Jesus tells us of the lambs and the goats. the lambs who took care of the sick, gave to the poor, ie. lived their Christian life and did the will of God. The ones who said “ Lord, lord”, ie they who “knew Jesus, believed in Him” but did nothing, were sent off the the warm place. Those who persevered in good works, and according to paul, “ran the race to the end”. or, Paul , in Timothy, “equipped for every good work”, were sent to Life Eternal.
The above link is for some notes regarding how both legalist and antinomian positions may fall away from His Plan, rather than growing in faith through His Work in us.
Do you mean Paul the sinner (Romans 7)?
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