Crystal Cathedral had its day

The Guardian ^ | Nov. 5, 2010 | Harriet Baber

[dr_lew]

Just for technical purposes, let me note that the actual quote from the book occurs in the Google blurb, but was not at the site, as far as I could discern.

KURT VONNEGUT JAILBIRD BY THE SAME AUTHOR PLAYER PIANO THE SIRENSApr 7, 2010 ... What is more protean than adultery? Nothing in this world. "I am thinking of going on a ...... Love as Always, Kurt: Vonnegut as I Knew Him ... www.docstoc.com/.../KURT-VONNEGUT-JAILBIRD-BY-THE-SAME-AUTHOR-PLAYER-PIANO-THE-SIRENS - Cached

[bibletruth]

I have found that the truth of Gods Grace today is sorely only understood by so few; and mega churches like this one preached many incorrect doctrines which we’re not accurate from the Bible doctrine given to the apostle Paul. I only attend after fully reading their statement of faith; and I have visited on-line many mega-church web sites to review their statement of faith and then follow the writings of these often false teachers. First point: 1 Timothy 2:12-13 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over a man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Men should be teachers, not women. Churches that promote women as teachers have brought in deceiving spirits of false doctrines. If you do not believe me, then check out the scriptures in Romans through Philemon: these are the doctrines and scriptures for the church today. 1 Timothy 4 reads: Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron... The apostle Paul through Christ, speaks volumes of truth here to Timothy and us today. Let us learn from Paul and Christ, not doctrines of devils which are so often taught at these mega-churches, simply to raise money and self fame; and not to preach Christ and His correct doctrines rightly. Avoid such teachers. Note The reference to smaller churches above which have only a few believers is indicative that only a few people inside my community would come to the knowledge of correct Bible doctrine and believe it from the Bible alone and not man’s tradition and/or additions to the Bible (as is common in so many large churches, like mega-churches and Roman Catholic churches). I have found that true Bible doctrine is rarely found in large population of membership... but God’s Word has been deposited and understood correctly and Biblically by the unknowns of the world; and certainly small in numerical numbers: thus I only attend small churches with few believers.

[presently no screen name]

I didn’t go to the link but just did when you mention Pastor Rick - SO hoping you didn’t mean Rick Warren.

But you did. An another one that so many got suckered into. Strange he built so close to the CC.

[dr_lew]

Are we being spotlighted? It certainly seems so. A google search of “protean” returned, for its FIRST HIT, just now:

Crystal Cathedral had its day20 posts - 11 authors - Last post: 4 minutes ago
I recall a line from one of Vonnegut’s later novels - “What is more Protean than adultery. Nothing.” Maybe spirituality is more Protean than ...
www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2626526/posts?page=18

[johngrace]

I think now that you asked he is still affiliated somehow! I remember interview with larry king. If you want go to You Tube type His name and larry king. It will come up with video’s. His answer for not talking about hell or repentance is strange.

[Cronos]

The campus and decor are the culmination of a high-church revival in American Protestantism that began in the 19th century. It was then that evangelical Christians, who had traditionally assembled in meeting houses and preaching halls, constructed faux-Gothic edifices, dressed their preachers in gowns, and "beautified" their services, exchanging tedium for vulgarity.

That seems to be the case when you try and strip The Church into parts ("oh, we won't have sacraments and songs are the work of the devil, only preaching is good") --> these groups veered wildly from one extreme to another. They wanted to have only austerity and solemnity and grayness and took it to an extreme. Then they turned to the other extreme

G.K. Chesterton put it well when he said

When a religious scheme is shattered (as Christianity was shattered at the Reformation), it is not merely the vices that are let loose. The vices are, indeed, let loose, and they wander and do damage. But the virtues are let loose also; and the virtues wander more wildly, and the virtues do more terrible damage.

The modern world is full of the old Christian virtues gone mad. The virtues have gone mad because they have been isolated from each other and are wandering alone. Thus some scientists care for truth; and their truth is pitiless. Thus some humanitarians only care for pity; and their pity (I am sorry to say) is often untruthful

- "Orthodoxy"

[presently no screen name]

I read about how Warren’s book was used by many churches (as a study) throughout the country. The pastors of these churches lacked wisdom and discernment and allowed deception to enter in.

[Lockbar]

If orange county were to legalize gambling and want to open a casino, I think they have a head start.

[presently no screen name]

They veered about from God’s Word or never knew God’s Word.

It’s not complicated. Those churches are all about ‘man’.

God’s Church is ALL about JESUS! And His Body of Believers go to HIM for everything. Never man.

[presently no screen name]

Totally agree! Evil always wants to be associated with good. That’s why they want to pro-claim they are Christians.
Yet, they don’t know the ‘good news’, the Gospel.

Christians follow Christ, not man.

[Cronos]

The denomination is the Reformed church of America, the North American branch of the Dutch Reformed Church. In 1819, it incorporated as the Reformed Protestant Dutch Church. It holds or held to the "Reformed" Heidelberg confession. This is the ultimate demise of such short-lived, non-Christ-filled groups

[Cronos]

The article is good and goes on to state

Fashion dominates the world of evangelical Christianity and its therapeutic penumbra. The Crystal Cathedral, that glitzy architectural marvel, has become a 1980s nostalgia item. Now Rick Warren is the anointed leader of America's "People of Faith" and, for the time being, Orange county crowds are flocking to Saddleback's dull preaching halls

[kosta50]

Why did they file for bankruptcy?

[Cronos]

bibtut :Word has been deposited and understood correctly and Biblically by the unknowns of the world; and certainly small in numerical numbers: --> Unfortunately the group that believes in secret knowledge is Gnosticism. Your group's heresy was discounted in early Christianity since Gnosticism denies the divinity of Christ and the union of Christ with the FAther and the Holy Spirit in the TRinity.

[dr_lew]

Well, that seems like some kind of a blog thing they’ve got going, weighted by most recent time. I guess “protean” ha ha! isn’t mentioned that often.

[presently no screen name]

This is the ultimate demise of such short-lived, non-Christ-filled groups

There it is - non Christ. Don't understand what could they teach/preach. At least that one was short lived but there is always another one to take it's 'I have a better way' place. It must s*ck to be so deceived.

[Cronos]

True, it is always about Jesus, that's the focus of worship in orthodoxy. Christ who was born, lived, preached, died and rose from the dead for us. We need to celebrate with awe each of these stages. To restrict it to one is attempting to box up God. To restrict ourselves just to preaching the Word is not correct. To restrict ourselves just to singing and praise is not correct. The Bible includes dry history (Judges), Rules, love (the Gospels), preaching (the Epistles), songs (Psalms, the Song of Solomon), Lamentations, Joy and Judgement. We must remember all of these as our God is all of these.

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These groups did not start out being "all about man" as you correctly put it, but they started as one type of reaction. The error they made was to veer too far away and they slipped into dry austerity. This is best exampled in Mansfield Park by Austen.

And there was an adverse reaction against these leading to the megakirks and the acts of "Bishop" Long, the "cross-it" baptist preacherman. These extremes lead to errors