Skip to comments.Evangelical: We Don't Need Rite of Exorcism, Just Jesus
Posted on 11/16/2010 7:17:47 AM PST by marshmallow
With renewed attention on the rite of exorcism, one theologian has chosen to articulate the evangelical stance on the ritual that few practice today.
The existence of the devil and demons are real but a rite of exorcism is unnecessary, said Dr. Albert Mohler, president of The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, in his popular blog Monday.
The only weapon Christians need is the name of Jesus, he stressed.
"Evangelicals do not need a rite of exorcism, because to adopt such an invention would be to surrender the high ground of the Gospel," Mohler wrote.
This past weekend, a group of Catholic bishops held a closed-door conference in Baltimore to discuss the theological foundations of the rite of exorcism and to present, in detail, the practice and use of the rites associated with exorcism.
Bishop Thomas J. Paprocki of Springfield, Ill., who organized the conference, said that demon possession is rare but that they have to be prepared.
"The real hope here and the purpose is to provide some training so that really every diocese could have its own resources to handle such inquires," he told ABC News.
Not all Catholic priests are on board with Paprocki's efforts.
One priest who sent the National Catholic Reporter a copy of the invitation letter by Paprocki back in May wrote: "CAN YOU BELIEVE THIS? IN 2010."
Mohler does not deny accounts in the New Testament that show clear and real cases of demonic possession. Jesus and the Apostle Paul liberated afflicted individuals, he noted.
But the evangelical leader pointed out that no rite of exorcism was performed in those cases and there was no notion of a priestly ministry of ordained exorcists. The only thing involved in casting out demons from an individual was "the name of Jesus and the proclamation of the......."
(Excerpt) Read more at christianpost.com ...
**Evangelical: We Don’t Need Rite of Exorcism, Just Jesus**
Then why does the Bible relate stories of Jesus casting out demons.
He blessed the Apostles — the first priests — and that blessing continues down to the present day.
Yes, there are demons in this present world, make no mistake about it.
I’m not that familiar with the rite of exorcism, but I have been to healing Masses, and no special effects were used there. Just laying on of hands and praying for people to be healed through the power of Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit.
They are certainly in the White House.
I agree that the name of JESUS is all we need. Many years ago I was be stalked by a man. I was beside myself. My husband said that the next time he called, just say Jesus as many times as I could, he hung up after the third Jesus, and never bothered me again.
So. Baptist believe in the laying on of hands for healing as well.
Yes! there is.
"But there are also many other things which Jesus did; which, if they were written every one, the world itself, I think, would not be able to contain the books that should be written." John 21:25
I’m not taking the side of the RCC, but be very careful in how you approach this subject. Christ, after all, wasn’t a completely “normal” human and had authority that we don’t realize exists and likely never will this side of eternity.
We are told to rebuke demons in the name of Christ because it’s only through Him that we are given any authority at all. After all, He’s the vine and we’re the branch. Without Him, we’re nothing at all.
Other than that, I agree with what you said.
Can Satan cast out Satan?
Agreed, that Jesus didn’t use holy water.
He’s the One who makes things and people holy so that they can be employed for good.
But can we also agree that you are not Jesus? So maybe you might need what He didn’t need? Namely, invoking Him? He authorized his disciples to cast out demons by prayer and fasting and invoking his name.
That’s what the exorcism rites do. Albert Mohler couldn’t be bothered to discover that. Otherwise he might have wasted his breath on something else.
Proof that anyone can get a doctorate.
Take another look, Al. The apostles and the 70 disciples were “authorized” by Jesus. It’s explicit: he sent them out with authority under His name. When some of His disciples asked why they were unsuccessful with some cases of demonic possession, he instructed them how to do it the next time.
Looks like authorized exorcists to me.
Mohler can’t see the nose on his face.
That isn't the understatement of the year. It's not even the biggest understatement of the entire history of the universe since Creation ... It's the understatement of Eternity.
Have you any idea who and what Jesus IS.
Jesus told us exactly who and what He IS:
"Before Abraham was, I AM."
Jesus Christ is Lord. Jesus Christ is God. He isn't a human person at all, He is a Divine Person. He had and has ALL authority.
Without Him, were nothing at all.
Exorcism is part of the authority given by Christ to Peter and the Apostles.
"I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."
I seem to remember Him using mud and spittle once, but I guess that doesn’t count.
Duh. The leather seats, stereo, and A/C come with a car -- they're just accoutrements of a very nice, "tricked-out" car, in fact.
Exactly what part of the rite of exorcism is objectionable? Holy water (I suppose we could reach down and mix spit with the dust), the prayers? The sign of the cross?
No Romany Catholic would deny that God can work through His saints in less formal ways. But why do Evangelicals think God won’t work through formal means?
BTW I’m not RC
I like this thread. I agree with the rite. It is the practice of 2000 years of doing it right as opposed to 500 years of doing whatever.
Of course a Southern Baptist is gonna downplay Roman Catholic rites...Duh? but do you ever watch those ghost shows on TV? I’ve noticed when the “Baptist” can’t clear an evil haunting they always refer to a priest.
just an observation.
Funny how all that stuff is in the Bible but so many miss it because it doesn’t fit with what they already believe.
Do I know what the Christ is?
He became human, but He also never gave up His diety completely, so I would hazard a guess that I have a better understanding of what the Christ is than you give me credit for. If He wasn’t a “human person” then He couldn’t qualify as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.
He is fully God and fully Man at the same time.
Certain types of Baptist denominations do. Free Will Baptists, for example.
He was a practicing Jew.
Agreed, but what we are saying is that those things are powerless unless used in conjunction with the authority granted to all believers by Christ. Are the extras nice? I guess, but the extras don’t do anything without the power behind them active.
I see you read the article very carefully before commenting....
In one respect, yes, but it’s hard not to practice the very laws that you yourself handed down to Moses.
Sorry for sounding dense, but what’s that supposed to mean?
I was wondering if someone would mention that. It’s very interesting, to say the least.
Yes ... but He is one person, not two, and that Person is Divine. Because He is a Divine Person, His sacrifice is perfect ... therefore His sacrifice, carried out in His human nature, could atone for our sins.
in Luke 9:49-50
Master, said John, we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we tried to stop him, because he is not one of us.
Do not stop him, Jesus said, for whoever is not against you is for you.
Thought you 2 might be interested in these verses.
Agreed. He is one portion of the three-in-one nature of God. He’s fully human as well as fully divine, at the same time, and I’ll leave it at that. I don’t really feel like getting into a debate on the theology behind this.
At the last opening on the eighteenth of January, 1562, all hesitation was set aside: [Gaspar de Fosso] the Archbishop of Reggio made a speech in which he openly declared that tradition stood above Scripture. The authority of the church could therefore not be bound to the authority of the Scriptures, because the church had changed circumcision into baptism, Sabbath into Sunday, not by the command of Christ, but by its own authority. With this, to be sure, the last illusion was destroyed, and it was declared that tradition does not signify antiquity, but continual inspiration.
Source: Heinrich Julius Holtzmann, Kanon und Tradition ("Canon and Tradition") (Ludwigsburg: Druck and Verlag von Ferd. Riehm, 1859), p. 263. German.
It subsequently declared the ascension of Mary which is outside of Biblical truth.
If the Church does not revert to the total authority of Scripture I'm afraid they will continue down a wrong path.
I must agree, to take on all these other ministries is below the high calling of the Gospel.
For “The Gospel power is the power of God unto salvation! For therein is the righteousness of God revealed.” (Romans 1;16b-17a)
And our God hath chosen preaching: “For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us that are saved it the power of God.” (1 Corinthians 1:18)
“God hath chosen the foolishness things of the world to confound the wise; God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things that are mighty; “ (1 corinthians 1:27)
May we pray: “Dear Lord and God, help us to chose those things that you have chosen, and serve you in all righteousness,holiness and in truth.”
May we not forget: “For He (God) hath made Him (Jesus) to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him.” (2 Corinthians 5:21)
“Wherefore God hath highly exalted Him, and given Him a name which is above ever name.” (Philippians 2:9)
Saint Dominic had them all say the Rosary very slowly and with great devotion, and a wonderful thing happened; at each Hail Mary that he and the people said together a large group of devils issued forth from the wretched man's body under the guise of red-hot coals [this particular man had 15,000 demons because he had attacked the fifteen mysteries (this was prior to the Luminous Mysteries) of the Rosary].The devils went on to scream at St. Dominic that the Rosary was like a chain that beat them and whipped them.
Here is what Jesus said, and the context:
22Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw.
23And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David?
24But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
25And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
26And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
27And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.
28But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
Notice, howeve, Jesus did NOT say that Satan never casts out Satan, or demons do not cast out demons.
Consider. Other, non-Cchristian, or ever Jewish, religions practice rites of exorcism. Do they work? I don't know, but let's assume that as they have been conducted 100s or 1000s of years that sometimes they do.
Then, by definition, Satan is casting out Satan, as we know that God isn't doing it.
Notice also what Jesus said, “Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand”.
OK, we know, because the bible tells us so, that Satan's house will be brought to desolation in the fullness of time. Also, we know, just from observation that to follow Satan is to be self-centered and selfish. You would assume that it would be the same for demons as for humans. Therefore, one would hardly hesitate to stab another in the back if it gained him an advantage.
Further, look at, say, an system of evil such as socialism. Look at the many varieties of it historically, and how the followers of these systems have killed each other with a ferocity that they can hardly match with their killings of capitalists. The Nazis and the Soviets, for example.
Is this not, figuratively, Satan casting out Satan?
I'm not saying that I'm correct in this analysis: I'm hardly an expert. But I think that giving the wording, at least in King James English, the possibility is open for this interpretation.
No, we wouldn’t use a Rosary but we do use Holy Water and Annointing Oil. They work just fine because we understand what actually makes them work.
"Even him, whose coming is after Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders. And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved." 2 Thess. 2:8,9.
However, my secondary point is the misinterpretation, IMO, of some significant Bible passages that have gone unnoticed or un commented upon by most pastors that I have heard preach on them, and most commentaries that I have read about them. Including some that I otherwise regard as sound
Two quick examples: The story of Cain and Abel, and the “render unto Caesar” thingee.
Cain asks God is he his brother's keeper. AND GOD NEVER SAYS THAT HE IS. People need brothers, not keepers. Keepers are for animals, criminals, and the mentally incompetent.
Now, second, I notice that most preachers who preach about Jesus telling the Pharisees to render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's either use it as an example of Jesus out-smarting the Pharisees when they tried to set a trap for Him, or else use it to encourage us to pay our taxes with a smile. Oh, and they talk about how much good they do.
BUT JESUS NEVER DEFINED WHAT IS CAESAR'S. Also, He never condemned resisting the theft of your property by the government. Especially, it would seem to me, this would be acceptable to Jesus if we could figure a way to withhold monies that might otherwise go to such activities as Planned Parenthood, aid to Hamas, etc.
All He is saying, or so it seems to me, is that if Caesar has got you in a bind, there is no sin attached to paying up. What real choice do you have?
Anyway, that is my sideways slant on those passages, and I have a few others where I do not really accept the standard interpretations.
Great questions! I’m going to look at both closely and will get back to you. I think we are in agreement on this already...:) I’ll be back..
You [Bobby], on the other hand, have had much experience in using prayer to help solve crises, going back to your college days when your ceaseless "Hail Marys" helped deliver your friend Susan from the devil in what you later realized was her exorcism. As I'm sure you recall, Governor Jindal, Susan's depression about her cancer quickly progressed from depression into despair, and you found yourself in a room with her and a bunch of Campus Crusaders for Christ and other well-meaning but green evangelicals, wanting to help but unable to do so. When you tried to join in the group's prayer, you felt "a weight on your chest," and initially could not overcome the darkness that was now taking ahold of your soul as well. But according to your 1994 article "Beating a Demon, Physical Dimensions of Spiritual Warfare," "suddenly...and strangely, I found myself repeating the Hail Mary until it became a chant. As a recent convert to Catholicism, I had yet to accept the Catholic doctrines concerning Mary, and considered [them] to be idolatry. Though I had never prayed a Hail Mary before in my life, I now found myself incapable of any other form of prayer." But as it turned out, it was your prayers, along with the intervention of a crucifix (later found to have been blessed by John Paul II) that turned the tide for Susan, and her faith in Christ was restored. Link
"The only thing involved in casting out demons from an individual was "the name of Jesus and the proclamation of the Gospel.......... I don't believe Jesus used rites, holy water, crosses, etc. either..."
But Paul did
Notice by aprons and cloth from Paul ordained by Christ. Paul blessed these items. Why not other items.
ACTS 19:11 "Now God worked Unusual miracles by the hands of Paul, 12 So that Even Handkerchiefs or Aprons were brought from his body to the sick, and the diseases left them and the evil spirits went out of them"
You win the prize for completely sensible post of the year! Bravo!
Good questions indeed!
MATTHEW 12:28"But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
Notice, howeve, Jesus did NOT say that Satan never casts out Satan, or demons do not cast out demons."
Study of scripture shows there is a fool proof way. How would you know for sure? Well there is a clear cut guide in the bible which Catholics and Protestant use.
I have been reading About exorcists or deliverance from books and articles for years. I have even meet the enemy through a friend's wife. She is into spellcasting.
The basic common link is this:
1 John 4 (New International Version)
1 John 4
On Denying the Incarnation
1" Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world."
At the end of each exorcism the victim has to declare in the personal pronoun that he or she believes Jesus Christ came in the flesh Meaning divinity became human. If the victim does not do this they know the exorcism is not over till this is done. I have read Catholic or Protestant do the same. So this is the real common link to know that person is fully deliver.
Now my personal experience I went to help a friend move. His wife who is into this new age crap likes to do spellcasting and tarot cards. She tried to "read" me without my permission I claim the Blood of Christ over this thus she could not "read" me. Also she then says at least I am a Christian.
Well I told her she is no christian. Guess how I prove it. I told her to recite and mean it the apostle's creed she could not do it. When it came to born of the virgin Mary =which equals flesh or became human. Several times could not say. Nothing but a lot of facial contortions and stutterings. Then told her to declare out right that Christ came in the flesh born of a woman. She would try then say out of desperation that there are many Gods with same contortions. Her husband was horrorfied. To make a long story short she is still a work in progress. I gave the husband a blessed exorcism medal and exorcism blessed cloth. She did not know what it was until he silently showed her. He never told her what it was. She fell down.
Anyway 1john 4 is the rule if it is not the rule the bible would be useless. But we can stand on it. Praise Jesus!
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