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The King of kings is about to call !
The Joshua Chronicles ^ | Jeff kingshott

Posted on 11/17/2010 9:01:32 PM PST by Jedediah

The King of kings is about to call !

Unilateral agreements are now coming into play , The Bride of Christ coming together all in one day , So break out the confetti and raise your voice and sing , For the King of Glory and his banquet are about to ring \o/ , The sound of unity across his Body and Bride , For The Kingdom of God is moving in leaps and strides , No longer will hindering spirits be allowed to stand , For The Lord himself is coming with an army to take back all his land ! So sing praises of hosanna for The King of kings is about to call , And all of the enemies forces are about to fall !


TOPICS: Activism; Apologetics; Catholic; Charismatic Christian; Current Events; Evangelical Christian; General Discusssion; Mainline Protestant; Other Christian; Other non-Christian; Prayer; Worship
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1 posted on 11/17/2010 9:01:34 PM PST by Jedediah
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To: Ping

Joya, Quix
The king of kings is about to call !


2 posted on 11/17/2010 9:02:49 PM PST by Jedediah
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To: All

Hush be silent in the presence of The King !
Hush be silent in the presence of the King \o/ ,

Allow The Voice of Many Waters through you to sing ,

Out the words and psalms of your majesty ,

That continue to expand My tapestry ,

For in worship you were created to continue in my song ,

Worthy ! Holy ! Is the Lamb of God all day long ,

Oh ! How the bells of rejoicing ring in my majesty ,

So be silent now and just listen to me ,

For I am filling you with My Voice ,

My sovereignty , My will , My choice ,

My very blessings you shall write , sing and speak ,

My testimony creating strong from the weak ,

My joy is your tabernacle My love is your light ,

These are what well up in you , Yeah ! Springing up through the day and night ,

From glory to glory I shall take you ,

Just sit , wait and listen then rise up and do ,

For as an orbiting pendulum you shall come and go ,

As Enoch does soon you shall know ,

My fire , My glory , My weight you shall bear ,

The twelve fruit of My tree you shall find there !

The depth of My wisdom you shall swim and drink in ,

Through My very understanding you shall take it all in !

My fear shall delight you as we walk hand in hand ,

And as each of you walk in My rememberance you shall take back My land ,

The wheel within the wheel I shall bear forth for you ,

All of heaven shall become your dew ,

For this “ My Zion “ before you I bear ,

But for now just come and sit with me there ,

For in faith you are here as I AM in you ,

Now COME and rest upon the wings of your Venue . . .


3 posted on 11/17/2010 9:04:46 PM PST by Jedediah
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To: Jedediah

Can I have your stuff?


4 posted on 11/17/2010 9:08:39 PM PST by stormer
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To: All

My Bride ! My Heart ! My Tapestry !

O come , O come , O come to me !

My heart grows faint for thee ,

O can’t you feel my heart beats for thee ,

I wander through the garden and wait ,

My hands sweat as I anticipate ,

For my longing overwhelms my heart for you ,

But it is as if my voice is still distant and subdued ,

Oh won’t you come and harken onto me ,

And come into the garden and walk with me ?!

For truly I AM here ! And even now I wait for you ,

To form your Heart AS ONE so in ALL Fullness I may see you !

For your dress is torn and in need of repair !

So come to me in all your dispair ,

For I AM your tailor and I hold the keys ,

And I desire , so desire to , Yeah ! I desire to seize !

Each and every moment of your day ,

For I AM your DaySpring and MorningStar that lights your way ,

Oh ! Fragrant blossom come to me !

For I wish to bear fruit in your Heart for only me ,

Yea ! I AM captured ! By your love ,

So come to me unsanctioned and kneel before me in love ,

For just as Mary knelt before me ,

And poured out her heart for all to see ,

It is in these tears as you weep ,

My Heart and Spirit I lay at your feet ,

So wash yourself in my forgiveness and Love ,

For I AM coming for you my pure white Dove ,

So open your wings of love and fly to me ,

For there is a seat here in heaven I have prepared for thee ,

Oh come ! My beauty , My Heart , My Love !

And rest in me and in My Love ,

For I have ordained before man throughout all time ,

That you alone will be only mine !


5 posted on 11/17/2010 9:09:16 PM PST by Jedediah
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To: Jedediah

Listen for the Trumpet. Get ready to leave.


6 posted on 11/17/2010 9:12:25 PM PST by righttackle44 (I may not be much, but I raised a United States Marine.)
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To: righttackle44

I’ve been thinking the exact same thing- spread the word- theres a lot of his kids who dont know yet.


7 posted on 11/17/2010 9:21:45 PM PST by humantech ("No one wants to live to see such evil times. Its what you do with the time you are given")
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must be the great harvest. Tell the libertarians. And the constitutionalists. And the teapartyers.


8 posted on 11/17/2010 9:26:59 PM PST by campaignPete R-CT ("pray without ceasing" - Paul of Tarsus)
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To: righttackle44

I’ve been thinking the exact same thing- spread the word- theres a lot of his kids who dont know yet.


9 posted on 11/17/2010 9:27:17 PM PST by humantech ("No one wants to live to see such evil times. Its what you do with the time you are given")
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To: Jedediah

“But concerning that day or that hour, no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.” ~Mark 13:32


10 posted on 11/17/2010 9:28:43 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet (Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under. ~Mencken)
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To: humantech; All

Yes just as in Joshua 1:14-15 we are to assist everyone to cross over the Jordan and into Zion Hebrews 12 !
Only then shall we enjoy our inheritance !

Numbers 32:20-32

20 Moses replied to them, “If you do this—if you arm yourselves for battle before the LORD, 21 and every one of your armed men crosses the Jordan before the LORD until He has driven His enemies from His presence, 22 and the land is subdued before the LORD—afterwards you may return and be free from obligation to the LORD and to Israel. And this land will belong to you as a possession before the LORD. 23 But if you don’t do this, you will certainly sin against the LORD; be sure your sin will catch up with you. 24 Build cities for your dependents and folds for your flocks, but do what you have promised.”
25 The Gadites and Reubenites answered Moses, “Your servants will do just as my lord commands. 26 Our little children, wives, livestock, and all our animals will remain here in the cities of Gilead, 27 but your servants are equipped for war before the LORD and will go across to the battle as my lord orders.”

28 So Moses gave orders about them to Eleazar the priest, Joshua son of Nun, and the family leaders of the Israelite tribes. 29 Moses told them, “If the Gadites and Reubenites cross the Jordan with you, every man in battle formation before the LORD, and the land is subdued before you, you are to give them the land of Gilead as a possession. 30 But if they don’t go across with you in battle formation, they must accept land in Canaan with you.”

31 The Gadites and Reubenites replied, “What the LORD has spoken to your servants is what we will do. 32 We will cross over in battle formation before the LORD into the land of Canaan, but we will keep our hereditary possession across the Jordan.”

Joshua 1:14-15

14 Your wives, young children, and livestock may remain in the land Moses gave you on this side of the Jordan. But your fighting men must cross over in battle formation ahead of your brothers and help them 15 until the LORD gives our brothers rest, as [He has given] you, and they too possess the land the LORD your God is giving them. You may then return to the land of your inheritance and take possession of what Moses the LORD’s servant gave you on the east side of the Jordan.”


11 posted on 11/17/2010 9:28:53 PM PST by Jedediah
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

watch tonights word from Jack Van Impy on the internet or tv !!!!!!


12 posted on 11/17/2010 9:30:06 PM PST by Jedediah
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To: humantech

God bless.


13 posted on 11/17/2010 9:31:26 PM PST by righttackle44 (I may not be much, but I raised a United States Marine.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Amen.


14 posted on 11/17/2010 9:33:40 PM PST by GOP_Party_Animal
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To: Jedediah

Link please.


15 posted on 11/17/2010 9:39:05 PM PST by MHGinTN (Some, believing they can't be deceived, it's nigh impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: Jedediah
Rejoice... look up for your redemption draws nigh...

Turn up your speakers for an oldie but a goodie!

16 posted on 11/17/2010 9:43:18 PM PST by BigFinn (The King is coming and He isn't riding a donkey this time.)
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To: Jedediah

Jed!-Yes! I appreciate your faithfulness and manner for this post. I sense it too. I am openly saying prayers with old friends who never were comfortable with prayer. They sense it too. Praise Jesus! Amen!


17 posted on 11/17/2010 9:53:11 PM PST by johngrace (God so loved the world so he gave his only son! Praise Jesus and Hail Mary!)
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To: MHGinTN

HI M- I do not know schedule but if you want a network try Free Tube and press Family Friendly(If Not filth shows shown) then look for religious to the left of page. You will get spiritual networks. Sooner or later van impe is on church channel or Tbn and others.


18 posted on 11/17/2010 10:09:15 PM PST by johngrace (God so loved the world so he gave his only son! Praise Jesus and Hail Mary!)
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To: MHGinTN

http://freetubetv.net/index.php?f=1


19 posted on 11/17/2010 10:10:38 PM PST by johngrace (God so loved the world so he gave his only son! Praise Jesus and Hail Mary!)
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To: johngrace

Thank you. I used to have a few of Rexella’s records ... too many moves to keep up with the 33 1/3 treasures.


20 posted on 11/17/2010 10:23:26 PM PST by MHGinTN (Some, believing they can't be deceived, it's nigh impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
The day and hour are not knowable.
The SEASON, IS knowable.

Mark 13:

26 “At that time people will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory.

27 And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens.

28 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near.

29 Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that it is NEAR, right at the door.

30 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

31 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

32 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

21 posted on 11/17/2010 11:22:36 PM PST by DWar (The perfect is the enemy of the excellent!!)
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To: DWar

Even so, Lord Jesus come.


22 posted on 11/17/2010 11:26:22 PM PST by DWar (The perfect is the enemy of the excellent!!)
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To: DWar
Forty years ago, that was my story, that was my song. The sense of proximity was so powerful that I, like many others, dropped out of college to give my time to "full-time witnessing," bumming around the country handing out tracts, playing guitar with a pentecostal tent crusade, serving on the staff of a street mission. After five years, my bizarre assertions -- and behavior -- had alienated my family and discredited the gospel I claimed to embody. A common reaction -- "If that's a Christian, I hope I never become one!"

Bad theology is a harsh taskmaster. The early 20s are the window of opportunity for getting one's vocation solidly launched. Miss that window, and you'll still be playing catch-up decades later.

Ignorance can be fixed. Stupid (foolishness) is a character defect. Good theology can displace bad notions, and transform a man's vocation, marriage, family, and witness. God in His kindness delivered many of us from apocalyptic hysteria, and called us to build for multiple generations.

As much as my wife of 32 years and I enjoy our married love, I continue to pray that God will grant good spouses to our children -- and to the grandchildren yet to be born of those holy unions. I pray for the grace (and would appreciate your prayers) to finish this dissertation, and to enjoy enhanced influence for The Kingdom over the next 30 years. I have a married daughter who is also a graduate student -- we proof-read each other's scholarly papers. You can find me on google page 1 for an significant move of God, so I enjoy some modest influence for His glory already.

No need to stay stuck on stupid. Fortune-telling is a fool's game, that makes fools of those who buy into it. God has MUCH better things for His people.

23 posted on 11/18/2010 1:22:34 AM PST by RJR_fan (The press corpse is going through the final stages of Hopium withdrawal. That leg tingle is urine.)
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To: Jedediah

The King says He’s sick of wanna’ be prophets speaking in His name. That’s my “prophecy” to you.


24 posted on 11/18/2010 1:29:04 AM PST by streetpreacher (I'm not a preacher of anything; I'm just a recipient and unworthy steward of God's grace.)
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To: MHGinTN

lol... link? That’s like asking Joseph Smith for the golden plates. The only “link” is the direct link from “Jedadiah’s” head to God’s mouth.


25 posted on 11/18/2010 1:30:24 AM PST by streetpreacher (I'm not a preacher of anything; I'm just a recipient and unworthy steward of God's grace.)
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To: Jedediah

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyvFhrDzLfY


26 posted on 11/18/2010 1:32:57 AM PST by streetpreacher (I'm not a preacher of anything; I'm just a recipient and unworthy steward of God's grace.)
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To: DWar

Is this the part where you tell us that Israel is the fig tree without any proof from Scripture?


27 posted on 11/18/2010 1:35:30 AM PST by streetpreacher (I'm not a preacher of anything; I'm just a recipient and unworthy steward of God's grace.)
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To: DWar
Bet you weren't expecting that were you?

Good grief man,you come on to a religion thread,you have the audacity to post actual scripture and then,as if to try and top that outrage you say "Even so, Lord Jesus come" !...WHAT WERE YOU THINKING!?!

28 posted on 11/18/2010 1:53:44 AM PST by mitch5501 (fine!)
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To: Jedediah

RE: The Bride of Christ coming together all in one day,

I’m a Christian, albeit not much of one. Can clearly remember a Sunday-School-teaching doctor laughing at me for calling myself a kind of Christian stoic, and another, similar, SSTD snarling at me for falling asleep in his class (I’d worked a full shift the previous night). I’ve believed in my heart and confessed with my mouth for years, but I’m often discomfitted by the term, “Bride of Christ”, because I know what happens to most brides on their wedding nights.


29 posted on 11/18/2010 4:48:42 AM PST by flowerplough (Thomas Sowell: Those who look only at Obama's deeds tend to become Obama's critics.)
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To: Jedediah

I had my phone disconnected a week ago.


30 posted on 11/18/2010 4:49:36 AM PST by Neets
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To: streetpreacher

And the link is a bit staticy...


31 posted on 11/18/2010 4:51:43 AM PST by Larry Lucido (http://libertyprunejuiceflipnjokersweezlezip.blogspot.com/)
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To: flowerplough
You would appreciate Leon Podles' book The Church Impotent: The Feminization of Christianity. Google it -- you can download a free copy at Podles' web site.
32 posted on 11/18/2010 5:33:55 AM PST by RJR_fan (The press corpse is going through the final stages of Hopium withdrawal. That leg tingle is urine.)
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To: Joya; Quix

Ping


33 posted on 11/18/2010 5:55:22 AM PST by Whenifhow
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To: Neets
"This is Larry King. We have the King of Kings on the line. Go ahead, caller."


34 posted on 11/18/2010 7:16:23 AM PST by Larry Lucido (http://libertyprunejuiceflipnjokersweezlezip.blogspot.com/)
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To: Jedediah

SURE LONG TO SEE HIM FACE TO FACE.

BLESSED BE THE NAME OF THE LORD.

MARANATHA.

DRAW ME NEARER, LORD.


35 posted on 11/18/2010 7:16:47 AM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Quix
Homer: (in vision) "You mean I need to wait til I die? I can't wait that long!")

God: "What, you mean you can't wait six months?"

Not that I get my theology from a yellow cartoon character, but the basic concept is serious. The joy of serving God is -- having things to do. Important things -- like raising kids. Enduring things -- like raising kids to think in terms of multiple generations. Like caring for aging parents, so that your children will "get the hint," and enjoy divine favor upon their lives.

A colonial-era preacher gave the example of a "servant" sitting under a tree, complaining about the heat of the day, and wistfully thinking how wonderful it will be to get to the end of the day.

Many of us are not really in that much of a hurry to get to the grave. There's too much to do, so many exciting projects, and such a wonderful vocation to pursue for God's glory.

Why be in a hurry to quit doing something so rewarding -- serving on the staff of the King of Kings and Lord of Lords?
36 posted on 11/18/2010 8:24:04 AM PST by RJR_fan (The press corpse is going through the final stages of Hopium withdrawal. That leg tingle is urine.)
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To: Larry Lucido

Jesus: Yea, believe in me and ye shall find peace. [presses a button on the phone.] First caller, you're on 'Jesus and Pals' [an echo effect shows up]
Caller: Yeah, is this Jesus?
Jesus: Yes, yes caller, you need to turn your TV down, that's why you're getting that weird feedback.
Caller: Oh, sorry. [the effect goes away] Uh, this is Martin…
Jesus: Martin, from Aspen Park, yes, I know.
Martin: How the hell'd you know that?
Jesus: Well, maybe because I'm the Son of God, brainiac, now, do you have a question?

37 posted on 11/18/2010 8:29:35 AM PST by dfwgator (Texas Rangers -Thanks for a great season.)
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To: RJR_fan

TRUE TRUE.


38 posted on 11/18/2010 8:32:36 AM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

>>“But concerning that day or that hour, no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.” ~Mark 13:32<<

That passage doesn’t mean exactly what most people think. You may want to research the foundation for that passage. There are some distinct indicators of when that will happen. The ancient Jewish wedding formalities are being followed.

Ancient Wedding Practice

During the betrothal period, the bridegroom would prepare a wedding chamber for the honeymoon. This chamber was typically built in the bridegroom’s father’s house or on his father’s property. The wedding chamber had to be a beautiful place to bring the bride. The bride and groom were to spend seven days there. The wedding chamber had to be built to the groom’s father’s specifications. The young man could go for his bride only when his father approved. If the bridegroom was asked when the wedding was to be, he might well say “it is not for me to know, only my father knows”.


39 posted on 11/18/2010 8:50:17 AM PST by CynicalBear
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To: RJR_fan; streetpreacher
>>Fortune-telling is a fool's game, that makes fools of those who buy into it.<<

RJR! You seem to have a problem answering my scripture questions when I debate you. Just denying truth gets weaker and weaker if you have no counter scripture to prove your position.

Revelation 1: 3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

John wrote those words around 96AD, much later then the 70Ad those that deny prophecy claim all prophecy was fulfilled. Would either one of you care to tell us how in 96AD John was calling something prophecy when what he was writing about had already happened prior to 70AD some 26 years earlier? Was John just suffering from Alzheimer?

40 posted on 11/18/2010 9:08:26 AM PST by CynicalBear
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To: Quix; Jedediah
I Corinthians 2:9

"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him."

Sounds like infinite Love!

41 posted on 11/18/2010 9:52:00 AM PST by johngrace (God so loved the world so he gave his only son! Praise Jesus and Hail Mary!)
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To: stormer

LMAO


42 posted on 11/18/2010 9:55:12 AM PST by freedomlover (Make sure you're in love - before you move in the heavy stuff)
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To: johngrace

AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!

THX THX.


43 posted on 11/18/2010 10:07:52 AM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: CynicalBear
The internal evidence suggests that the canon was closed by 70 AD. The "it/he" that was seen around 96 AD -- something reported only by Iraeneus, may well have been John, rather than John's Apocalypse.

Revelation, like Isaiah, like Jeremiah, like Amos, is almost entirely a book of fulfilled prophecy. There are prophecies yet to be fulfilled. One day, these mortal bodies will share in our Lord's physical resurrection. One day before then, some scholars believe, Israel will get over its milennia-long pout, get with the program, and become one Christian nation among many other Christian nations. They'll finally get tired of being outside the party, and will be driven to envy by God's blessings poured out upon the nations that confess that Jesus is Lord.

Meanwhile, we have nations to disciple. And powerful tools to shape the future with. Let's go carve the name of Jesus on our personal worlds!

44 posted on 11/18/2010 10:32:23 AM PST by RJR_fan (The press corpse is going through the final stages of Hopium withdrawal. That leg tingle is urine.)
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To: Quix; Jedediah

http://www.spiritdaily.com/raisingdead1.htm


45 posted on 11/18/2010 11:20:10 AM PST by johngrace (God so loved the world so he gave his only son! Praise Jesus and Hail Mary!)
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To: RJR_fan
>>The internal evidence suggests that the canon was closed by 70 AD. The "it/he" that was seen around 96 AD -- something reported only by Iraeneus, may well have been John, rather than John's Apocalypse.<<

The date of the writing of Revelation has been hotly disputed by preterists. Preterism is the belief that all prophecy has been fulfilled, including the second coming of Jesus Christ, which is alleged to have occurred in a non-physical sense in AD 70. Christian tradition has placed John's exile to Patmos during the reign of the emperor Domitian (AD 81-96). Not until the rise of preterism has this been challenged.

The dispute over the date of the composition of Revelation is a crucial one. If it was composed by John after the fall of Jerusalem in AD 70, preterism is at once refuted. Revelation is a prophetic book, predicting the coming of Christ in the future. A post- AD70 date makes equating the coming of Christ with the destruction of Jerusalem utterly impossible.

There is no question that Revelation was written while John was a prisoner of the Roman state, exiled to the prison island of Patmos. That much can be gathered from the first chapter of Revelation. "I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ."

There were only two Roman emperors who persecuted Christians on a large scale in the first century, Nero and Domitian. The other Emperors were either indifferent to Christianity, or did not consider it a serious threat to Rome. The first Roman persecution under Nero took place in the decade of the 60s, just before the fall of Jerusalem. Nero was responsible for the deaths of both Peter and Paul in Rome in AD 67, Peter by crucifixion, and Paul by being beheaded.

There is no record of Nero's banishing Christians to Patmos, only his brutality against the Christians of Rome. It was Nero who made a sport of throwing Christians to the lions for the entertainment of the crowds, and who burned many at the stake along the road leading to the Coliseum merely to light the entrance.

After Nero's death Rome left the Christians alone until the rise of Domitian to power in AD 81. Although not as cruel and insane as Nero, Domitian had many Christians killed, the property of Christians confiscated. Scriptures and other Christian books were burned, houses of Christians were destroyed, and many of the most prominent Christians were banished to the prison island of Patmos.

All ancient sources, both Christian and secular, place the banishment of Christians to Patmos during the reign of Domitian (AD81-96). Not a single early source (within 500 years of John) places John's banishment under the reign of Nero, as preterists claim. All modern attempts to date Revelation during Nero's reign rely exclusively on alleged internal evidence, and ignore or seek to undermine the external evidence and testimony of Christians who lived about that time, some of whom had connections to John. Eusebius the Christian historian, living only two hundred years after Domitian's reign, gathered evidence from both Christian and secular sources that were still extant at the time (some of which are no longer extant today). All of the sources at Eusebius' disposal placed the date of John's Patmos exile during the reign of Domitian. Eusebius' earliest source was Irenaeus, disciple of Polycarp, disciple of John. But he also used other unnamed sources both Christian and secular to place the date of the Patmos exile of Christians during Domitian's reign (AD 81-96).

"It is said that in this persecution [under Domitian] the apostle and evangelist John, who was still alive, was condemned to dwell on the island of Patmos in consequence of his testimony to the divine word. Irenaeus, in the fifth book of his work Against Heresies, where he discusses the number of the name of Antichrist which is given in the so-called Apocalypse of John, speaks as follows concerning him: 'If it were necessary for his name to be proclaimed openly at the present time, it would have been declared by him who saw the Revelation. For it was seen not long ago, but almost in our own generation, at the end of the reign of Domitian.' To such a degree, indeed, did the teaching of our faith flourish at that time that even those writers who were far from our religion did not hesitate to mention in their histories the persecution and the martyrdoms which took place during it. And they, indeed, accurately indicated the time. For they recorded that in the fifteenth year of Domitian Flavia Domitilla, daughter of a sister of Flavius Clement, who at that time was one of the consuls of Rome, was exiled with many others to the island of Pontia in consequence of testimony borne to Christ."

While Eusebius quoted Irenaeus' statement, notice that he also indicated that other secular histories at his disposal accurately indicated the banishment of Christians to Patmos occurred during Domitian's reign. Eusebius continues: "Tertullian also has mentioned Domitian in the following words: 'Domitian also, who possessed a share of Nero's cruelty, attempted once to do the same thing that the latter did. But because he had, I suppose, some intelligence, he very soon ceased, and even recalled those whom he had banished.' But after Domitian had reigned fifteen years, and Nerva had succeeded to the empire, the Roman Senate, according to the writers that record the history of those days, voted that Domitian's horrors should be cancelled, and that those who had been unjustly banished should return to their homes and have their property restored to them. It was at this time that the apostle John returned from his banishment in the island and took up his abode at Ephesus, according to an ancient Christian tradition.” Here again Eusebius mentioned an ancient Christian tradition, but did not quote his sources, that placed John's return from exile on Patmos after Domitian's fifteen year reign, and Nerva's rise to power (AD 96).

I have more if you would like it. You have to re-write a lot of history to make your contentions work.

46 posted on 11/18/2010 11:29:47 AM PST by CynicalBear
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To: johngrace; Quix

See post 46 if you are interested in when Revelations was written.


47 posted on 11/18/2010 11:31:58 AM PST by CynicalBear
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To: RJR_fan
thought I would give you the rest.

Continued

There is more early evidence, both explicit and implicit, from other early writers prior to Eusebius. Victorinus, bishop of Pettaw (Italy), agreed with Irenaeus. That Victorinus did not rely on Irenaeus for his information is clear from the fuller details of his statement not referenced by Irenaeus.

"'And He says unto me, Thou must again prophesy to the peoples, and to the tongues, and to the nations, and to many kings.' He says this, because when John said these things he was in the island of Patmos, condemned to the labor of the mines by Caesar Domitian. There, therefore, he saw the Apocalypse; and when grown old, he thought that he should at length receive his quittance by suffering, Domitian being killed, all his judgments were discharged. And John being dismissed from the mines, thus subsequently delivered the same Apocalypse which he had received from God.” A little farther, Victorinus again made the same claim.

"The time must be understood in which the written Apocalypse was published, since then reigned Caesar Domitian; but before him had been Titus his brother, and Vespasian, Otho, Vitellius, and Galba.”

Clement of Alexandria (AD150-220) recounted a story about John shortly after his return from exile, while a very old man.

“And that you may be still more confident, that repenting thus truly there remains for you a sure hope of salvation, listen to a tale, which is not a tale but a narrative, handed down and committed to the custody of memory, about the Apostle John. For when, on the tyrant’s death, he returned to Ephesus from the isle of Patmos, he went away, being invited, to the contiguous territories of the nations, here to appoint bishops, there to set in order whole Churches, there to ordain such as were marked out by the Spirit.”

The expression “the tyrant's death” can only refer to the death of either Nero or Domitian, the only two “tyrants” that ruled in the first century. Eusebius related that upon the death of Domitian, the Roman senate voted to release those exiled by Domitian. This seems to parallel Clement's statement above. However, the above statement could refer to Nero, except for one fact. In the story that Clement related, he clearly stated that John was a very old and feeble man. John was still relatively young when Nero died.

The story is about a young new convert whom John entrusted to a certain elder to disciple in the Faith. The man had formerly been a thief and robber. Upon John's return from exile on Patmos, he heard that this young man had returned to his old life of crime. Upon hearing this, he sharply rebuked the elder in whose custody he had left him. John immediately set out for the place where this robber and his band were known to lurk. Upon reaching the place, he was assaulted by the band of robbers. He demanded of them to take him to their leader. They brought John to the very man whom John had formerly won to Christ, and left in the custody of the elder. When the young man saw John approaching, he began to run away. John began to run after him, calling, “Why, my son, dost thou flee from me, thy father, unarmed, old? Son, pity me. Fear not; thou hast still hope of life. I will give account to Christ for thee. If need be, I will willingly endure thy death, as the Lord did death for us. For thee I will surrender my life. Stand, believe; Christ hath sent me.”

John then explained to him that forgiveness and restoration was still possible. Clement then stated, "And he, when he heard, first stood, looking down; then threw down his arms, then trembled and wept bitterly. And on the old man approaching, he embraced him, speaking for himself with lamentations as he could, and baptized a second time with tears, concealing only his right hand. The other pledging, and assuring him on oath that he would find forgiveness for himself from the Savior, beseeching and falling on his knees, and kissing his right hand itself, as now purified by repentance, led him back to the church."

From this account we see that upon John's release from exile on Patmos, he was a feeble old man. John was most likely in his teens or early twenties when Jesus called him. He and his brother James were working with their father as fishermen (Matt. 4:21-22). Assuming John was in his twenties, he would have been in his eighties in AD 96. If he was in his teens when Jesus called him, he would have been in his seventies at the end of Domitian's reign. However, if the “tyrant” referred to by Clement was Nero, then John would have still been fairly young by the time of Nero's death, perhaps in his forties or early fifties. He would hardly be spoken of as a feeble old man by Clement. That John lived until after the reign of Domitian is also shown by Irenaeus' repeated references to his own mentor, Polycarp, being John's disciple.

Polycarp was born in AD65, and died in AD 155. He was five years old when Jerusalem was destroyed. He was two years old when Nero died. His being tutored by John therefore must have been at least a decade after the destruction of Jerusalem, and more likely two or three decades afterward. More than one early writer mentioned the persecution of the Apostles under Nero. They spoke of the martyrdom of Peter and Paul, but made no mention of John's exile during this persecution. As is obvious to the unbiased reader, the early external evidence that Revelation was written under the reign of Domitian is indisputable. No evidence exists, from the first three centuries of Christian tradition, placing the composition of Revelation during the reign of Nero. Nor is there any evidence (Christian or secular) that Nero exiled any Christians to Patmos.

The familiarity of John and his readers with Temple worship in Revelation is alleged to indicate that both he and his readers relied on personal first hand knowledge of Temple worship in Jerusalem. According to preterists, this implies that the Temple in Jerusalem was still standing when Revelation was written. However, this argument is flawed at its very foundation. The Old Testament is full of the same Temple imagery. Any Gentile Christian familiar with the Old Testament would be sufficiently familiar with the Temple imagery. Furthermore, familiarity with the New Testament book of Hebrews would also be sufficient. Even a cursory reading of Revelation reveals that John's visions and comments reference Old Testament prophecy on virtually every page.

Ezekiel saw a future Temple in his prophetic visions. Yet, his visions occurred during the Babylonian captivity years after Solomon's Temple was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar. Many of those who returned after the seventy year captivity to rebuild the Temple had never seen Solomon's Temple, or observed its rituals. Their familiarity with the Temple was based solely on the Torah and scrolls like Ezekiel's and Daniel's. The Temple destroyed by the Romans has been gone for nearly 2000 years. No one in the last 1900 years has seen it. If preterists' claims are correct, we should not be able to understand Revelation or write about Temple worship today because we have no personal first-hand knowledge of the Temple and its rituals. Such a position is absurd, since our knowledge of the Temple comes from the Scriptures. Neither the writing nor understanding of Revelation requires or implies first hand knowledge of the Temple. The Old Testament is sufficient. John certainly was himself familiar with the Temple, having been there with Jesus on several occasions. And his readers were well trained in the Old Testament Scriptures. There is therefore no good reason to suppose that the Temple must have been still standing for John’s readers to understand the book.

That John was told in his vision to “measure the Temple and them that worship therein,” is likewise no indication that the Temple was still standing in Jerusalem. This prophetic vision clearly parallels Ezekiel's vision. Ezekiel saw his vision during the Babylonian captivity, fourteen years after Nebuchadnezzar sacked Jerusalem and destroyed the Temple. Yet, in his vision, Ezekiel was taken to Jerusalem, shown a glorious Temple far larger than Solomon's Temple, and proceeded to record all the measurements of the Temple in great detail. John saw his prophetic Temple vision during Domitian's reign (AD 81-96). It is obvious that the command given John in chapter 11 to “measure the Temple” was meant to parallel Ezekiel's vision. Since Ezekiel saw his Temple vision fourteen years after the first Temple had been destroyed, there is every reason to conclude that the same situation existed when John wrote Revelation. Ezekiel's Temple vision and prophecy was clearly intended to portray a future rebuilt Temple. Ezekiel did not see the former (Solomon's) Temple that had been destroyed, or a Temple that was currently standing. Therefore, John's vision of the Temple in Jerusalem should be seen in the same way, being a prophetic portrayal of the Temple that will indeed be rebuilt.

That this is how the early Christians understood Revelation, even after the destruction of the Temple, is clear from their claims that the Temple in Jerusalem would be rebuilt and would be the seat of the Antichrist in the last days.

Preterist attempts to date Revelation before the destruction of Jerusalem fail on both internal and external evidence. This failure is indicative of their whole system, which is forced upon the Scriptures, and in this case, upon history as well. Preterist scholarship on this question is clearly agenda driven.

48 posted on 11/18/2010 11:50:31 AM PST by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear; Quix; Jedediah
Very interesting read.

I heard it was written in 90's A. D..

I also heard a story about John the Apostle reaching his natural 90's years of human life. There is a wonderful story that I heard that they carried John into a church because He was very old. When some got him alone they wanted to talk about the Apocalypse Book. But instead John emphazed Love for one another in all matters. Like do not let all the spectacular sensational aspects take away from the basic love of the gospel. Amazing story.

49 posted on 11/18/2010 12:22:58 PM PST by johngrace (God so loved the world so he gave his only son! Praise Jesus and Hail Mary!)
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To: johngrace

AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!


50 posted on 11/18/2010 12:46:38 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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