Posted on 11/19/2010 7:02:39 PM PST by Benchim
Yes, baptism is by faith. But the Jesus instructs His apostles to baptize those who convert to Christ.
Mathew 28:19 “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,”
Baptism continues as people and households convert. Paul mentions baptizing people in Corinth, and mentions others who performed baptisms as well.
If the baptism were spiritual only, Paul and Crispus and the disciples and company could hardly have performed it! It is a physical baptism, with water, as described repeatedly in Scripture.
Read the portion of Acts where Peter baptizes the Ethiopian eunuch. Down into the water they go.
Baptism is not optional and is a requirement for the Christian.
“Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?” Than Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. . Then those that gladly received the word were baptized, and that day about three thousand souls were added to them. And they continued steadfastly in the apostles doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers. . .”Acts 2:38 and on.
All this is done within the church body. You get baptized, you continue in the doctrine (which is recorded in the Bible,) your break bread, (taking the Lord’s Supper), you pray together, you have fellowship. . .
that’s the way it’s done. Not all out there on your lonesome.
“If a sacrament imparts grace, why did Jesus get baptized?”
John the Baptist asked Jesus that, didn’t he? He said, “I need to be baptized by You, and are You coming to me?”
“But Jesus answered and said to him, “Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.”
Please give me the scripture in Acts, before Paul is saved, that Peter said “Jesus died for your sins.” Just one.
Study up on the Jewish use of baptism.
“Study up on the Jewish use of baptism.’
I could for interest’s sake, but, I don’t view history as authoritative. I view the Bible as authoritative, and I get my doctrinal positions from that.
So when God’s word repeatedly says we must be baptized, gives examples of baptisms to the point of even having Jesus baptized, records the baptisms of new believers and their households, and instructs His apostles and by inference other church leaders to baptize;
I get baptized!
Smart move! ... But you might find the information fo special interest, esepcially in light of what some folks told Paul when he found they had begun faithing in Jesus and he asked them ‘whose Baptism’ they had received and what he subsequently did. Paul also later stated that he ‘was glad he had not baptised any’ of another group who were arguing over such things.
I have been practicing a silent prayer taught by the fhu.com and widely used by our military..called coping strategies for them. It puts people on the path to salvation by being still and watching the thoughts in our minds. I had a strong spirit of love come into my room one night and warm my body and it said to me without words..”you are okay now, you have made it home” It was pure love is how I can explain it. And ever since then I have had the power to let life’s irritations and angers pass by. So I no longer need or have a desire to sin any longer. I am like a child again but with an adults maturity. I am free at last! And so full of happiness!
No where did I insinuate that keeping the law or not had anything to do with "salvation". Yes, Peter and the other Apostles did know that salvation was for Jews and Gentiles and when they both accepted Christ, they became the "church or the Body of Christ", collectively. I am missing nothing here. I don't see where anything I said goes against what you just laid out here. Maybe you are stating the obvious which I figured everyone would already know.
But different churches place different doctrines for salvation. Some think for example to prove your salvation the Holy Spirit will give you spiritual gifts to show as proof. Some think the person has to come forward to the mourners bench weeping and confess their sins in public. Some do and some others are as calm as can be and remain silent. Some say you must feel immediate change within. Many don't feel that and change for some takes a life long process.
It was around a year or so before I got the courage as a young very shy teenager to go before the church. My salvation came about a year earlier though in private. Finally when the voice said go forward to the alter NOW I did.
IIRC {it's been over 40 years} I had to wait about maybe a month or maybe even two for church Baptism as I had to attend a church membership class first that was held several times a year.
Salvation how and when?
Luke ch 19 5When Jesus came by, he looked up at Zacchaeus and called him by name. “Zacchaeus!” he said. “Quick, come down! For I must be a guest in your home today.” 6Zacchaeus quickly climbed down and took Jesus to his house in great excitement and joy. 7But the crowds were displeased. “He has gone to be the guest of a notorious sinner,” they grumbled. 8Meanwhile, Zacchaeus stood there and said to the Lord, “I will give half my wealth to the poor, Lord, and if I have overcharged people on their taxes, I will give them back four times as much!” 9Jesus responded, “Salvation has come to this home today, for this man has shown himself to be a son of Abraham. 10And I, the Son of Man, have come to seek and save those like him who are lost.”
Water didn't save him Christ saved him.
The Great Commission you posted is true. Sad to say some legalistic have even make it complicated. For example there is one denomination {not sure which} that believes unless the preacher baptizes you using the phrase word for word "in the name of Jesus Christ" you are lost. No I'm not kidding such a person tried to convince me of this for several years. When are we saved though was the thread. We are saved the very instant we accept Christ as Lord and Savior in our hearts just as Zacchaeus and just as the thief on the cross.
**When the Jews asked of Jesus ‘what must we do to do the work God requires’, what did Jesus say to them?**
“..believe on him..” Do you really believe on him? Do you believe on him according to their (the apostles) word (Jn 17:20)?
**Connect that request to what the Hebrews ask Moses before he went up the mountian.**
Ex. 19:8..”All that the Lord hath spoken we will do”..
That was an appropriate response to Moses words from the Lord.
**What were the two commandments Jesus gave that He expected of those with faith in Him?**
He commanded repentance and baptism. The Holy Ghost is a gift.
**And finally, what did James proclaim for the Gentiles Paul and Silas were bringing into the kingdom?**
Acts 15:20 “...That they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.” Sidenote about Silas: He hadn’t been along on the first missionary journey with Paul.
Paul and Silas left on Paul’s second missionary journey, where they preached the Word, baptizing Jew and Gentile alike.
**Have you ever stopped to consider what Jesus may have been telling Nicodemus that Nicodemus replied ‘How can a man enter again into his mother’s womb’ in response to ‘ye must be born again’?**
Nicodemas just didn’t realize that there was a whole ‘nuther way to be born. To which the Lord made it clear it wasn’t going to be a fleshly rebirth. He said, “Except a man be born of water (no comma) and of the Spirit...”. (the ‘of’ isn’t found in original manuscripts). I think people tend to read that passage as though there is a comma in there, which would lead to some confusion posssibly.
The water simply isn’t a reference to fleshly birth, or the Lord would have said something like ‘that which is water is flesh’. Matter of fact, there are not any physical births recorded in the scriptures where there is any mention of water as part of that process. Maybe, even those folks were smart enough to know that ‘water’ is a pretty inaccuate term for fluid leaking from a ruptured placenta.
You could symbolically say that Jonah was reborn from the water a new and determined preacher.
The ‘water and the Spirit’ harmonize nicely with Acts 2:38. A good example of symbolism is in 1 Cor. 10:2. “And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea”.
Here’s one I ask regularly: Acts 2:38; is it from heaven or of men?
Thank you for your inquiry. (I shouldn’t be up this late, but took a too long after supper nap.)
Any more questions?
As Father Corapi says, “I won’t know I’m saved until I’m looking Jesus in the eye.”
“John 3:16. That’s it.”
That’s one of my favorite verses. But don’t forget what John wrote just 20 verses later: John 3:36.
“Simple, Romans 10:9,10.
Next question.”
Good point. Some say believe only, but ignore verses like Rom. 10:9 & 10 that clearly speak of additional responses required by us, like confession of Christ as Lord.
“If you want to go to Heaven when it’s your time, ask Jesus Christ to take you there. That’nots what one of the thieves on the cross beside Jesus did.”
And Enoch walked with God and “he was not” and Elisha was taken to heaven in a chariot of fire.
But these ways to get to heaven are not taught in the Bible as the avenue to heaven for the rest of us; they were special cases of God’s sovereignty.
When Peter, inspired by the Holy Spirit, preached the first sermon on the Pentecost following Christ’s resurrection, he did not preach “ask Jesus Christ to take you there” but instead preached “repent, and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins”.
If there were a "like" button I would push it here....:-)
Zuriel, the difference between your outlook and mine is that I give credit to the Holy Spirit for doing the right thing and you try to take credit yourself for doing what is right.
“The Baptism that saves us is the Spiritual Baptism of Jesus Christ by Jesus Christ Himself from which we also recieve The Holy Spirit. The Baptism of man meaning submersion in water comes afterward at some point in time. In some persons lives mans Baptism is the same day. In others it comes a week later, a month later, or years later. In others due to medical limitations it may never happen at all.”
This was evidently not Ananias’s understanding of water baptism, as he told Saul/Paul, who had come to belief in Jesus on the way to Damascus, “And now why do you delay? Arise, and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name.” Acts 22:16.
I would go a step further and submit that they didn't go to "heaven" but that our English language along with tradition has made the case.
Elijah is the easiest of the two to prove:
2Ki 2:11 Then it happened, as they continued on and talked, that suddenly a chariot of fire appeared with horses of fire, and separated the two of them; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
2Ki 2:12 And Elisha saw it, and he cried out, "My father, my father, the chariot of Israel and its horsemen!" So he saw him no more. And he took hold of his own clothes and tore them into two pieces.
2Ki 2:13 He also took up the mantle of Elijah that had fallen from him, and went back and stood by the bank of the Jordan.
So Elijah, via a whirlwind (tornado) went up into "heaven". But the word translated "heaven" is translated as the sky, the air, the cosmic realm (stars, planet, etc.) In context it is simply saying he went up into the sky...not the heavenly realm of God and the angels.
In other words, he was taken away by God so that Elisha could literally take up the mantle of prophet. Having Elijah there would have taken away from the authority of Elisha.
The proof?
2Ch 21:12 And a letter came to him from Elijah the prophet, saying, Thus says the LORD God of your father David: Because you have not walked in the ways of Jehoshaphat your father, or in the ways of Asa king of Judah, <
2Ch 21:13 but have walked in the way of the kings of Israel, and have made Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem to play the harlot like the harlotry of the house of Ahab, and also have killed your brothers, those of your father's household, who were better than yourself,
The letter from Elijah came AFTER he was taken up into the whirlwind.
So considering that there is NO way to be saved except through Christ this makes perfect sense...Elijah was taken away by God and moved to another place on earth so that God's work could continue with Elisha.
>> He said, “Except a MAN must be BORN of WATER, and of the SPIRIT, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God”.<<
John 7: 38 Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, streams of living water will flow from within him.
Surely you don’t interpret from John 7:38 that we are to urinate on someone. Still, that would be the only way to interpret the water analogy if we were to take it literally.
But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life. John 4:13-14
Are we to infer from the above verse that literal H2O is what Jesus was referring to here?
Born again of “water”? How about we understand what is meant by water in the above verses and others throughout Scripture. It’s the Word of God, and who is the Word? Who said “I am the Word”?
>>You nailed it. Why the deception by others?<<
It’s not deception by “others”. It’s deception by Satan. He is the deceiver.
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