Posted on 11/21/2010 8:09:16 AM PST by Cardhu
Pope Benedicts XVI's change of heart on condoms marks a significant break with the damage done by one of his predecessors' most romantic, wicked and wrong-headed policies. The idea of an absolute ban on condoms makes no sense even within the framework of Catholic teaching. Since the purpose of the ban on artificial birth control is to make conception possible, it makes no sense at all in situations in which conception is utterly impossible. That is why Benedict chose a male prostitute as his example of someone who might use a condom to fight disease.
The really interesting question is whether his remarks are supposed to apply even in cases where conception would be possible: may a female prostitute demand that her customers use condoms (assuming for the moment that either party takes much notice of the pope's opinions)? May a wife whose husband is infected? May a husband who has married an HIV positive woman?
It is with questions such as these that the balance lies between regarding the Catholic ban on artificial contraception as merely the romantic wrong-headedness of celibate men, or something actively misogynistic and anti-human. The matter would be simpler, of course, if the Catholic church banned all birth control. But it doesn't. It is only opposed to the effective forms.
But once it has admitted that it is sometimes all right to have sex for reasons other than procreation – and this is conceded, indeed claimed, by everyone who defends "Natural family planning", then the case for condoms as harm reduction becomes unanswerable. Indeed, until today, the question was the easiest way to make any English catholic bishop squirm. They know that their own flock uses artificial birth control. They did not enjoy pretending to believe that poor Africans should risk dying horribly...
(Excerpt) Read more at guardian.co.uk ...
Thanks for the compliment.
I found your link to Fr. Kirby very interesting. How does Tulsa manage to get all the best stuff? Two good monastic foundations and a Bishop who will celebrate ad orientem (not that I should complain—my pastor decided to try ad orientem when we had an FSSP priest visiting about a year and a half ago, and after four days he was hooked).
Actually, I suppose that the answer is that grace builds upon grace, so a good relationship between Bishop Slattery and Fontgombault snowballs.
What are you saying? Please expand.
There may be a basis in the case of some individuals, as perhaps when a male prostitute uses a condom, where this can be a first step in the direction of a moralization, a first assumption of responsibility, on the way toward recovering an awareness that not everything is allowed and that one cannot do whatever one wants.
"For I bear them record that they have a ZEAL of God, but according TO KNOWLEDGE.
For being ignorant of GOD'S RIGHTEOUSNESS, and going about to ESTABLISH THEIR OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS, have NOT SUBMITTED themselves unto the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD.
For Christ IS THE END OF THE LAW FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS to every one that BELIEVETH." Rom. 10:3,4.
The doctrines of DO's and DON'Ts does not bring man and God closer. They put a wall of works for righteousness between man and God.
"But OF HIM are ye IN Christ Jesus, who of God is MADE UNTO US wisdom, and RIGHTEOUSNESS, and SANCTIFICATION, and REDEMPTION." 1 Cor. 1:30.
Do's and Don'ts do not provide righteousness before God. Being IN CHRIST is the only righteousness He recognizes. Being IN CHRIST means believing and accepting the FINISHED WORK OF CHRIST as our salvation. "That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord." 1 Cor. 1:31. You want to glory about "we do this" or "we would never do that"? The only people you are impressing are those who think their works of righteousness is impressing God.
So, what does God entreat us to do for Him during this time of "For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast". (Eph. 2:8,9). ?
It's very simple. So simple that it is a stumblingblock to those who cannot believe the TRUTH of God's word.
"For the love of Christ constraineth us: because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then all were dead.
And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
Wherefore HENCEFORTH know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
THEREFORE if any man be IN CHRIST, he IS A NEW CREATURE: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
And all things are of God, WHO HATH RECONCILED US TO HIMSELF BY JESUS CHRIST, and hath GIVEN TO US THE MINISTRY OF RECONCILIATION:
TO WIT, that GOD WAS IN CHRIST, RECONCILING THE WORLD UNTO HIMSELF, NOT IMPUTING THEIR TRESPASSES UNTO THEM: and hath COMMITTED UNTO US THE WORD OF RECONCILIATION.
NOW THEN we are AMBASSADORS FOR CHRIST, as though God did beseech you by us; we PRAY YOU IN GOD'S STEAD, BE YE RECONCILED TO GOD.
FOR HE HATH MADE HIM TO BE SIN FOR US, WHO KNEW NO SIN; THAT WE MIGHT BE THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD IN HIM." 2 Cor. 5:14-21.
THIS is what is "choosing to obey God" today, during this time of grace and reconciliation, is. It is NOT do's and don'ts. It is NOT condoms are no condoms. It IS the Gospel of the Grace of God, given freely, by Him, for our reconciliation.
This is idiotic. All he said was what Catholic moral theologians have said for years. There is no "change of heart" involved.
And the Guardian is still a worthless commie rag.
LOL. The Catholic Church is the last holdout against the world's insanity.
REALLY? You mean now it's okay to take Christ's members and make them members of a prostitute? Someone ought to tell St. Paul!
Stop and think for a second, smvoice. If your antinomian take on Christianity is really made any sense, then where do you get off telling Catholics that they are wrong? If someone thinks salvation comes through eating papaya yogurt, isn't telling them that they are wrong just setting up another law they have to obey?
If natural law is opposed to the Gospel, then using condoms isn't wrong, but neither is adultery, homosexual acts, idolatry, or any other sin you care to name. Follow your position through to its logical conclusion. If law goes out the window, all of it goes.
And incidentally, as far as the act itself is concerned, intercourse with a condom is morally indistinguishable from homosexual sodomy or masturbation. None of the three are the life-giving one-flesh act which God has ordained and approved within the bounds of matrimony.
One more thing. NO Christian denomination had anything good to say about artificial contraception before the Anglican Lambeth conference began the mass apostasy of Christendom in 1930. No Protestant group approved of it. Not even one.
"For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness: but unto us which are saved it is the power of God." 1 Cor. 1:18.
You said: One more thing. NO Christian denomination had anything good to say about artificial contraception before the Anglican Lambeth conference began the mass apostasy of Christendom in 1930. No Protestant group approved of it. Not even one.
Arguing about the clouds when the rising water is neck-level. Arguments of spiritual blindness.
Paul's Epistles are exactly where one who thinks they are impressing God needs to be. Especially Romans and Ephesians. Or a person can stay in denial, insisting that God is keeping a big scorecard. Follow your position through to its logical conclusion. You cannot possibly score enough DO's or DON'Ts to outdo Christ's FINISHED WORK FOR YOU.
Welcome! I half expect Fr. Kirby to start levitating soon, so keep a check on him.:) His blog is frequently updated, always spell checked, tidy and organized with awesome images. And he’s absolutely on fire spiritually *all* the time. Spends a great deal of time in front of the Blessed Sacrament ...
Brilliant retort. Sounds like something the phoney "deacon" who no longer posts here would craft.
That’s the silliest explanation I’ve heard.
You’re telling me that people in Sudan and Mali are ‘close to europe?’
The best explanation, is that condoms are useless at preventing AIDS because they increase risk taking behaviour. Take condoms out of the picture and AIDS transmission actually drop as people change their behaviour. Don’t sleep around, don’t cheat on your wife. It’s really simple.
This lie will be around the world 10 times before anyone at the Vatican reacts to it.
I would humbly suggest that the Ten Commandments is God's list of DO's and DONT'S.
"Knowing that a man is NOT JUSTIFIED by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW SHALL NO FLESH BE JUSTIFIED." Gal. 2:16.
To DO Lists and To DON'T Lists are organized ways to keep the law. God did not send His only begotten Son to die for our sins, for our justification, so that we could begin a laundry list of our worthiness before Him.
Do you honestly believe that the Ten Commandments was given as a To Do list?
Then why did Christ die for our sins?
Better brush up on all of St. Paul's writings, as well as the rest of Scripture.
"Wherefore he that thinketh himself to stand, let him take heed lest he fall." 1 Corinthians 10:12
"Wherefore, my dearly beloved, (as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but much more now in my absence,) with fear and trembling work out your salvation." Philippians 2:12
Or a person can stay in denial, insisting that God is keeping a big scorecard.
Sounds like you're the one in denial.
"Who will render to every man according to his works. To them indeed, who according to patience in good work, seek glory and honour and incorruption, eternal life: But to them that are contentious, and who obey not the truth, but give credit to iniquity, wrath and indignation." Romans 2:6-8
"And I saw the dead, great and small, standing in the presence of the throne, and the books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged by those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and hell gave up their dead that were in them; and they were judged every one according to their works." Apocalypse 20:12-13
Regardless of what you claim, Scripture teaches that one learns of their salvation during their particular judgment following death and not until.
"In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to MY GOSPEL." Paul writes, as inspired by the Holy Spirit that it is HIS Gospel that will be used by God to judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ.
Do you know what this gospel that Paul refers to as "my gospel" is? Perhaps you should have continued reading Romans 2, past verse 8. Actually ALL of Romans would help you.
Your presentation of 1 Cor. is about the Dispensation of Grace contrasted with the Dispensation of Law. Perhaps you did not know there is a difference. To Paul was given the Dispensation of the Grace of God to minister. You will find it in Romans through Philemon.
Your Phil. Scripture sounds very RCC at first, as I know it is a favorite for RCs and all who think they can work their way to Heaven. In Philippians, Paul is exhorting Christians to rejoice,(3:1). Christians are to rejoice in fellowship with one another (1:3-11), in afflictions of the gospel (1:12-30), in the ministry for saints (2:1-18), in faithfulness of ministers (2:19-3:1), in the Lord and not in the legalism of Judaism or in the flesh (3:1-21, in unity (4:1-3), and always in all things (4:4-23). Both in suffering and joy, life and death, we are to rejoice. Until when? Until Christ returns for the Church the Body of Christ, and changes our vile bodies like unto His glorious body.(3:20,21).
Our physical lives while on this earth are indeed full of joy and sorrow. And in fear and trembling we work out our Christian lives. Knowing it is God which works in us both to will and do of his good pleasure. A holy God and just God working in this pitiful, vile, corruptible body to do His will? Yes, fear and trembling are the words. Unless one believes that he is actually doing things that impress God. No fear or trembling there. Just a vainly puffed up outward man who is spiritually blind. Those who are saved are still amazed daily that God, in His mercy, saved them. ANd they know that it is only by His grace, and the shed blood of Christ for his sins and his justification, that God has saved them.
As to your final argument, that one learns of his salvation after his death, nothing could be further from the truth.
"I am crucified with Christ; nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ LIVETH IN ME; and the life WHICH I NOW LIVE IN THE FLESH I live BY THE FAITH OF THE SON OF GOD, WHO LOVED ME, and GAVE HIMSELF FOR ME." Gal. 2:20.
Okay, once we are justified by Christ, what happens next? Do we just say I'm saved, and that's it? We want to thank, glorify and love our Savior. We ask, Lord, I owe you my life, how can I love you? He replies, "If you love me, you will keep my commandments".
I sense that you wish to assert that "works" are not a requirement of faithfulness. I see the "works" as the 'discipline' of a thankful disciple. It is not to 'earn' salvation but rather to honor the Savior who saved us. If we're truly thankful, we want to keep His commandments with all our heart. If we don't change our behavior, have we actually accepted Christ?
We are a fallen people born into the original sin of Adam. We are extremely fallible human beings who are in constant need of forgiveness and mercy. And yes, I believe that He wants us to strive to live Ten Commandments with all our hearts, our souls, our minds and our strength! Not to be justified by them, but to honor Him by them, to give Him glory and growth to His Kingdom on earth by that faithful witness to others. This is the Great Commission.
We DID receive His forgiveness and mercy: about 2000 years ago.
"By the which will we ARE sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ ONCE FOR ALL..But this man, after he had offered ONE SACRIFICE FOR SINS FOREVER, sat down on the right hand of God..for by ONE OFFERING he hath perfected FOREVER them that are sanctified." Heb. 10:10,12,14.
There is no other offering to be made for forgiveness and mercy. Even thought the RCC has Him dying every day, all day long, around the world, the Bible says He died ONCE for ALL SINS, FOREVER. He will not die again, no matter what the RCC teaches/believes/performs.
We can either accept that ONE TIME OFFER, or try to perform works of righteousness (keeping the law) for our salvation. But the Bible says that by the works of the law will NO man be justified.
As for the fallen people born into the original sin of Adam, read Romans 5.
"For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ." ROm. 5:17. WE are a new creature, created in Christ.
"Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God THROUGH OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST:" ROm. 5:1.
We who are saved through the finished work of Christ have PEACE with God through Christ. We do not need constant forgiveness. We have been forgiven; by the Cross. We do not need constant mercy: God's mercy was poured out on us by the Cross.
I think this is what RCs and others who are so afraid to step out in faith that everything needed to secure their salvation was taken care of 2000 years ago, at the Cross, are not willing to believe:
"What then? shall we sin, because we are NOT UNDER THE LAW, but UNDER GRACE? God forbid.
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?" Rom. 6:15,16.
Do you understand what this means? You can yield yourself as a servant to obey the law, which brings sin unto death. Or you can yield yourself as a servant to the obedience of GOd's Grace, which brings righteousness.
He said to him, What is written in the Law? How do you read it?"
And he answered, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself."
And he said to him, "You have answered correctly; do this, and you will live."
But he, desiring to justify himself, said to Jesus, "And who is my neighbor?"
Jesus replied, "A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and he fell among robbers, who stripped him and beat him and departed,
leaving him half dead. Now by chance a priest was going down that road, and when he saw him he passed by on the other side. So likewise
a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan, as he journeyed, came to where he was,
and when he saw him, he had compassion. He went to him and bound up his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he set him on his own animal
and brought him to an inn and took care of him. And the next day he took out two denarii and gave them to the innkeeper,
saying, 'Take care of him, and whatever more you spend, I will repay you when I come back.' Which of these three, do you think,
proved to be a neighbor to the man who fell among the robbers?"
He said, "The one who showed him mercy." And Jesus said to him, "You go, and DO likewise." ... Luke 10: 25-37
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. ... Matthew 5:17
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