Posted on 11/21/2010 7:43:56 PM PST by bibletruth
I for one perform evangelism to many whom need salvation. Read the following verses carefully :
Mark 7:20-23; Matthew 7:17
John 6:44; Matthew 6:65; Mark 4:10-13; Matthew 11:27
John 10:11, 10:26; Matthew 25:32
Matthew 4:19-20, 9:9
John 6:38-40, 10:27-28
The last one is also known as Once Saved Always Saved. ONCE SAVED - ALWAYS SAVED. It is IMPOSSIBLE for believers like me to lose my salvation - no man, Pope, Priest, no one can Anathema me - that notion is false doctrine of demons.
If Unconditional Election is true why did Jesus say “”Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation.” (Mark 16:15)? I they are already predestined to be elected, what difference does it make whether we go or not? Why preach the Gospel? They will be saved regardless. No one who is not saved will be saved if they are not foreordained as the elect.
BTW: I’m not Catholic.
interesting concept. “limited atonement” . Is that like a little pregnant? http://antinomianism-salvation.blogspot.com/
If you seek it, you can't find it.
If you find it, you can't get it.
If you get it, you can't lose it.
If you lose it, you never had it.
Sorry, but it makes about as much sense as Obama's economic policies....
Both Calvinists and Armenians use the scripture to prove their positions and have good points. Personally, I think they are both true, it is our small minds that say it is one or the other. Maybe that’s the easy way out.
Furthermore, the exact order of the books (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John) are specified in Zechariah, if someone cares to study Zechariah carefully. Zechariah is proof that the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, John; are the continuation of the Old Testament, that is why I call them part of the Old Testament.
Now to you question:
Israel was elected in the Old Testament. The Church, the Body of Christ, Colossians 1:18, [not Catholic] is predestined and elected:
Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will
As believers, we preach the Grace of God to everyone who will listen, warning them of Hell and the Lake of Fire and eternal damnation. We preach because God has made us Ambassadors for Christ. Individually, we may not know who is elected; but for the love of Christ and the Father of all glory, we preach and warn and exhort all to hear the message of grace for salvation. This is not counter to Unconditional Election. I hope this helps.
The Bible teaches both.
It is the blind who refuse to see there is more than just one side of the ages old predestination/ free will argument.
Proverbs 3:5-9
Only Calvinists' scriptures prove their positions. Armenians distort scriptures to prove their position, which is not Biblical. I have many Calvin and Calvinist books with solid scripture proof for TULIP; and their writing destroy's the Armenians' distortion of scriptures.
“T=Total Depravity
Mark 7:20-23; Matthew 7:17 “
Hmmm...
“20And he said, “What comes out of a person is what defiles him. 21For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, 22coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. 23 All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.”
“17So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. “
OK, neither passage shows total depravity. Total depravity postulates that man is so evil that God must select him for salvation, cause him to be born again, give him the Holy Spirit, and only THEN can a man repent. It claims man cannot believe unless God gives the faith to him, although saving faith is never described as a gift in the scripture.
Those verses don’t in any way show total depravity. In fact, Jesus said, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick.” Sick, not dead. Jesus also described us as blind and lost, not dead and unable to repent - which may be why Mark starts with, “Jesus came into Galilee, proclaiming the gospel of God, 15and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”
Would you like me to continue with the rest?
that would be impossible.
“Armenians distort scriptures to prove their position, which is not Biblical.”
Pot, kettle. BTW, Armenians live near Turkey. Pet peeve of mine, no offense intended.
http://evangelicalarminians.org/
I’m an Arminian, but I actually believe some truth is beyond our understanding, which is why God gave us scripture and not a systematic theology text.
I appreciate what you say, bibletruth, and I’m as hard core a Calvinist as you will find. But... is this kind of hitting people over the head with the doctrines of grace?
“And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.” Acts 13:48
“...just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself according to the good pleasure of His will.” Eph. 3:4,5
“And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.”
John 10:28,29
**these are all in your Old Testament Scriptures (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John).**
Old Testament Scripture?
Even I know better than that. LOL!
Why preach the Gospel?
Why did our LORD have to call Lazarus out from the grave? Since he was dead, Lazarus would not have heard anything and it would seem foolish to those who witnessed this spectacle for Jesus to be calling out to a dead man. Lazarus was so dead that he smelled of rot and decay; Martha believed all hope was so lost. The simple words of life our LORD spoke "Lazarus come forth" and Lazarus irresistably came from the tomb still bound in his grave clothes. John 11:40 tells us why this took place "Did I not say to you that if you would believe you wold see the glory of God" and that is why we preach the Gospel to those who show all signs of being dead - stinking of the rot and decay of their spiritual lifelessness.
Like Lazarus, he had to be made alive before he could hear the words of our LORD. Jesus didn't stop off at every tomb and every funeral and raise all within from death even though we all know that He could just as easily done that, and yet no one here is critical about our LORD choosing Lazarus and passing by the rest. No one here is calling God a monster for choosing whom He would reveal His glory through. Yet the Free Willers take every opportunity to ridicule and declare foolish God's means of revealing His glory through salvation.
1 Cor 1:21-22 "For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe."
And that is why those of us who have been made alive in Christ preach the Gospel to those who are spiritually dead. You may call this method of God's "foolish" and you may mock it, yet for those of us who have been sanctified into the knowledge of His truth rejoice in that while He could have passed us all by, he stopped by, made us spiritually alive, called us from our tomb, and clothed us, not in our grave clothes, but in His robes of righteousness.
Next question?
Proverbs 3:5ff is not a verse that overrides the clear teachings of Christ Jesus and our teacher the Holy Spirit in the Epistles. It is incorrect usage of Proverbs 3:5ff to be invoked in order to override other clear teachings in the New Testament. Besides, Proverbs was written to the Jews for a completely purpose in which everybody today understands Proverbs. One day I will post those truths for all to see once my book is complete.
If Christ teaches us in Ephesians 1:4 "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world...". Then we are not to utilize or invoke Proverbs 3:5ff to override these clear teachings.
For the record, I in no way believe the I chose God, He chose me.......................
You DO realize that ‘dead’ is only one of the words used to describe our separation from God? Bind, sick, children, slaves & others indicate that some response is possible without being born again first. In fact, life follows belief in scripture.
Well said... I ping
For the record, scripture teaches us we have choice in responding to God.
Election in the New Testament is corporate, not individual - just as it was in the Old Testament. IN CHRIST, we are chosen to become like Jesus. IN ADAM, we merit death.
It isn’t theology, but this pamphlet on tribal society ought to be read by theologians:
http://smallwarsjournal.com/documents/coinandiwinatribalsociety.pdf
The failure to understand the writings of a tribal people (the Jews) has led to misunderstandings about predestination.
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