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SHOULD A BAPTIST CHURCH EMBRACE PENTECOSTALISM?
PB Ministries ^ | 20-Oct-2010 | Laurence A Justice

Posted on 11/23/2010 12:14:36 AM PST by Cronos

Right now there are churches in almost every country which call themselves Baptists on the sign out front who, nevertheless, arc not Baptists, but in reality are Pentecostal churches.

....Pentecostalism is the belief that the miraculous gifts or signs which the Lord gave to the Apostles and others in the early churches have not ceased, but are still available and are still being exercised by today’s Christians. Pentecostalism claims that God still gives these miraculous gifts to men today. Lists of these gifts can be found in Mark 16:17-18 and 1 Corinthians 12:8-11.

..God’s extraordinary gifts are called this in contrast to those He ordinarily gives in all ages. They are ordinarily not given, but rather were given on extraordinary occasions. These extraordinary gifts were supernatural gifts that enabled their possessors to perform supernatural deeds. Usually when Pentecostals today speak of the gifts or the charismata, they are speaking of these extraordinary gifts, that is, healing, miracles, tongues, direct revelations from God, casting out demons. Pentecostalism teaches that these miraculous gifts, these charismata, are still available to Christians today

(Excerpt) Read more at pbministries.org ...


TOPICS: Charismatic Christian; Evangelical Christian; General Discusssion
KEYWORDS: baptist; freformed; pentecostal
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Interesting article
1 posted on 11/23/2010 12:14:39 AM PST by Cronos
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To: Quix; wmfights

ping.


2 posted on 11/23/2010 12:15:35 AM PST by Cronos (szczęgólnie!)
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To: Cronos

pfl


3 posted on 11/23/2010 12:22:56 AM PST by skr (May God confound the enemy)
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To: Cronos; WKB

Bump and ping!


4 posted on 11/23/2010 12:27:38 AM PST by dixiechick2000 ("First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." - Gandhi)
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To: Cronos

In our community the leading Baptist Church is full of Pentecostals, who are part of the Diaspora from the leading Foursquare Church whose pastor has embraced the Emerging Church Movement.


5 posted on 11/23/2010 12:39:10 AM PST by Retain Mike
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To: Cronos
The author says a few desperately silly things about how to discern whether Pentecostalism is finding its way into a Baptist church.

For example, the raising of one or both hands during worship. His church might be as dead as four o'clock in the morning . . . I don't know.

He has just never been among many Blue Ridge and Smokey Mountain Baptists who have always raised their hands, thrown things in the air, shouted till they had no more voice, ran all over the building . . . and outside the building (I've seen them jump out the windows, hop on one heel up and down seven steps that lead to the top of the platform, jumped the pews, women shouting their hair down, young sisters crying and screaming GLORY TO THE LAMB, and much more that would scare the average church-goer to death.

And they weren't Pentecostal in doctrine.

6 posted on 11/23/2010 1:44:04 AM PST by John Leland 1789 (Grateful)
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To: CynicalBear; ex-Texan; M. Espinola; topcat54; ShadowAce; oldenuff2no; jy8z; antidemoncrat; ...
I thought that argument had been thoroughly hashed out 30-35 years ago -- and the Baptists lost.

It's hard to defend a negative, to dogmatically assert that God no longer loves us enough to heal the sick, for example. And Christians no longer have the power to cast out devils? What, we're supposed to simply wring our hands and whimper when a demon oppresses a friend, neighbor, or (dare I say it?) fellow church member? Missionaries have no grace to command disturbing spirits to shut up and go away? I can see why the demons would love this doctrine! If the Christians voluntarily lay down their weapons, and simply let the devils have their way... if "spiritual leaders" call upon believers to disarm themselves ...

God Himself commands us, in many places, to raise our hands in worship. Apparently, this writer is smarter than God?

There are several powerful trends afoot among the people of God today -- spiritual gifts, Reformed theology, and home schooling, to name three. Too many Baptists are missing the boat on all three, smugly asserting that we should adore their nattering negativity, their dogma of denial, rather than the God who loves us and invites us to get with His program. Perhaps, Augustine's assertion concerning the Donatists applies:


7 posted on 11/23/2010 1:56:38 AM PST by RJR_fan (The press corpse is going through the final stages of Hopium withdrawal. That leg tingle is urine.)
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To: John Leland 1789

They sound like a fun group. They must be in good shape.


8 posted on 11/23/2010 2:53:19 AM PST by BiggieLittle
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To: John Leland 1789
Well, from what I understand (which is little I admit), Baptists would be open to Pentecostal doctrine hence this article which seems to say the opposite.

The external actions (raising hands etc) shouldn't matter in this case, right?
9 posted on 11/23/2010 2:53:51 AM PST by Cronos (szczęgólnie!)
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To: Cronos

Baptists come in several varieties sharing a core set of basice doctrine. Some would welcome the infusion of such fervent belief, so long as no wrong doctrine from a Baptist perspective was introduced into the congregation. Others, not so much.

Baptists aren’t monolithic, many are independent, there’s a fair amount of autonomy. Then, there are the larger Baptist associations such as the Southern Baptist Convention, and even Baptists that lean somewhat liberal by Baptist standards.

I guess you have to know them to recognize them. Those that already lean to a more charismatic form of worship would be far more welcoming.


10 posted on 11/23/2010 3:07:14 AM PST by RegulatorCountry
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To: RegulatorCountry; T Minus Four

I was raised in the SBC, but I worship in a Pentecostal church. I used to say I am a Christian first and a baptist second, now I’m just a Christ-follower. As long as a church doesn’t violate my core set of beliefs, I can worship with them.


11 posted on 11/23/2010 3:44:50 AM PST by 4mer Liberal
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To: 4mer Liberal

Personally, I like telling people I’m a citizen of the Kingdom and just passing through.. That will usually get a confused look out of someone.


12 posted on 11/23/2010 3:59:17 AM PST by mothball
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To: RegulatorCountry

Thank you for that clarification


13 posted on 11/23/2010 4:18:56 AM PST by Cronos (szczęgólnie!)
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To: Cronos

I believe we could still be used by God and be given the gifts of the Holy Spirit, but we have to follow the recommendations (rules) set forth in the NT for church services. Paul was real explicit about that, and, of course, they are ignored.

I am real conservative though. I pray with my head covered and I don’t believe women should speak in church. I love fireworks, too.

Hey, pray for PFC. Bowe R. Bergdahl, the soldier taken prisoner in Afghanistan last year.


14 posted on 11/23/2010 4:57:17 AM PST by huldah1776
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To: 4mer Liberal

I agree- and add only my daily prayer is that god will renew my mind that each day my core set of beliefs will manifest
that others might have no reason to doubt I am a Christ man.


15 posted on 11/23/2010 5:12:21 AM PST by StonyBurk (ring)
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To: Cronos

I’ve been to 3 kinds of Baptist churches. A traditional one, a “seeker-friendly” one and a charismatic one. My experience is that in general, the traditional one was OK, a bit dull, and full of “religious” people who might say & do the right things, but there was still so much gossip & back-biting going on. I didn’t see a real passion for the lost. They were great at Bible studies, and did care for each others’ needs. The “seeker-friendly” one was full of people who seemed to love the worldly culture too much to adopt a biblical worldview, and very afraid to offend anyone and thus, didn’t really seem to change much once part of the Body of Christ. The charismatic Baptist church was full of people who loved Jesus with all their hearts, had passion for the lost, reached out to the hungry, widows & orphans, took care of each other if there was a need, and yearned for the character of Christ to be manifest in themselves. It was an every second of the day walk with Christ. These people yearn for more & more of God. And their lives show the fruit of it.

Again, I say: IN GENERAL that is what I experienced. Other than the verse that says...”tongues may cease...” I haven’t seen anything in the Bible that says that the Gifts of the Holy Spirit are not for today. If ever the Body of Christ needs them, it’s today, in these troubled times.

I personally am concerned with the “emerging” church movement that is watering down the scriptures. Why attack the charismatic movement that embraces the fullness of the scriptures?


16 posted on 11/23/2010 5:44:50 AM PST by cinciella
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To: Cronos

Change my heart O God
Make it ever true
Change my heart O God
May I be like You

You are the Potter
I am the clay
Mold me and make me
This is what I pray

Change my heart O God
Make it ever true
Change my heart O God
May I be like You

Heresy? Error?

This song was birthed from the charismatic movement.


17 posted on 11/23/2010 5:44:54 AM PST by cinciella
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To: Cronos

If by “Penteocostalist,” one means that certain gifts of the Holy Spirit may be manifest (frequently called “charismaticism”), I suppose the main problem any church might have is the tendency towards quackery that comes with ascribing prophecy to mere babbling; biblical directives to seek interpreters, test spirits, etc., are frequently ignored. Instead, the least spiritually mature are often put in situations where they are made to feel like specially gifted prophets, whereas even Paul went to Antioch for three years before any public ministry.

Another type of Pentecostalism is quite harmful; this is the notion, sometimes distinguished as neo-pentecostalism, that spiritual charisms are an absolutely necessary sign of the working of the Holy Spirit. Thus, all previous Christianity, lacking the charisms, are held to be deficient. This is especially heinous, given that the Penteocostalist marks of the spirit are the lesser ones (”praying in tongues*”), while the Christians rejected by Pentecostalism frequently exhibited the higher charisms.

*Praying in tongues is real, but in my experience, 99.9% of what is called praying in tongues is mere babbling. How perverse that babbling should be given greater exaltation that the “ordinary gifts” of the spirit, such as charity, wisdom, patience, discernment, and so on!


18 posted on 11/23/2010 6:03:01 AM PST by dangus
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To: Cronos
"Pentecostalism teaches that these miraculous gifts, these charismata, are still available to Christians today."

All the gifts? When was the last time a Christian raised someone from the dead like Paul and Peter did?

19 posted on 11/23/2010 6:37:25 AM PST by circlecity
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To: Cronos; Alamo-Girl; Amityschild; AngieGal; AnimalLover; Ann de IL; aposiopetic; aragorn; auggy; ...

1. I suppose it’s interesting, if the purpose is to cause unnecessary trouble and division.

2. James Robison has had and continues to have a powerful miraculous ministry since Holy Spirit apprehended him in a profound way and altered his theology. Evidently the naysayers would have thousands, if not millions of folks turn their healings and deliverances back in and suffer in silence.

3. Roman Catholic Charismatic groups also have experienced the current powerful demonstrations of Holy Spirit being alive and well in the earth today.

4. Thankfully that’s true. Man has not changed. Satan and his goals, strategies and evil devastations in the lives of man has not changed. Thankfully, God Holy Spirit has not changed either.

5. The idiocy that Holy Spirit pulled up shop and went home when John ran out of ink at the end of Revelation is utter irrational nonsense.


20 posted on 11/23/2010 6:40:46 AM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: circlecity

The more spectacular gifts usually appear on the cutting edge of the Kingdom, the pointy end of the stick, the mission field. The default setting for most of us, the norm, is routine daily faithfulness that compounds over the decades into results we could never have imagined.

The old pentecostal preachers had a handy aphorism: signs must follow believers. When believers follow signs, things are out of order. c.f. the Todd Bentley dog and pony show, and various counterfeit “revivals” that do not lead to an increase in home schooling.


21 posted on 11/23/2010 6:42:00 AM PST by RJR_fan (The press corpse is going through the final stages of Hopium withdrawal. That leg tingle is urine.)
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To: RJR_fan

Be that as it may, it doesn’t asnwer the question I raised.


22 posted on 11/23/2010 6:46:38 AM PST by circlecity
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To: circlecity

I forget the guy’s name . . . there’s a head Pastor in Northern Mexico

who will NOT EVEN CONSIDER a candidate for Pastor’s training unless the fellow ALREADY has a certain number of verified resurrections under his belt from his layman’s ministry.

China experiences a fair amount of resurrections as well.

One woman laid her hubby out beside the main road and preached beside his body for 3 days before he was brought back to life.

They also happen even in America.

However, we haven’t seen ‘nothin’ yet. Scripture is clear that in the END TIMES there will be large numbers of resurrections—even from the grave.


23 posted on 11/23/2010 6:47:28 AM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Quix

What evidence is there to support these stories? Lots of people also say they have been abducted by aliens.


24 posted on 11/23/2010 6:50:07 AM PST by circlecity
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To: cinciella; Amityschild; Brad's Gramma; Captain Beyond; Cvengr; DvdMom; firebrand; ...

Along with MAJESTY

and a long list of others . . .

Jack Hayford alone authored a list of them, including MAJESTY.

Jack Hayford is one of the most anointed, wise and humble Christians alive on the planet.

A couple of my Taiwan friends left the nominal level Lutheran Christianity of their parents and have been growing solid Christians in Jack Hayford’s Van Nuys congregation . . . where Pat Boone also worships. Jack has retired from leading the congregation, though he’s still quite active in ministry and teaching.

IIRC, he also had a part in establishing CLEANSING STREAMS as a deliverance ministry that’s active across the nation and around the world.

Holy Spirit is going to bust out all over the world in a big way in these END TIMES.

God is not about to allow satan all the dramatic demonstrations.

People are clueless if they think that the God who brought the Israelites through the Red Sea is going to muffle His Spirit in the most crucial dramatic time (other than the Cross and Resurrection morning) of all history—the culmination of this boot camp training period.

They are likely also stubbornly Biblically ignorant or blind.


25 posted on 11/23/2010 6:55:33 AM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: cinciella

Why?

—pride, ego, pique at not being touched by God themselves in such a way—though they mostly resist such a wooing of Holy Spirit IN ORDER TO REMAIN IN
—DEATH GRIP PERSONAL HUMAN CONTROL of every aspect of their lives—deluded that THAT works at all.
—parochialism
—poor teaching
—no PERSONAL experience of the Power of God
—a form of RELIGION while denying the power thereof—AS SCRIPTURE WARNS.

Yet virtually every authentic Christian has had the experience of Holy Spirit causing a verse or phrase of Scripture to leap off the pages as applying specifically to that person’s life and angst of great need at that moment in their lives.

Yet even after such experiences with Holy Spirit, they stupidly deny that He speaks specifically to individuals in the present.

Sometimes the RC’s have no corner on double think idiotic dukplicity nonsense.


26 posted on 11/23/2010 7:00:51 AM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: huldah1776

I Cor 14 is the pattern for congregational meetings.

Most Pentecostal churches ignore it, too. Dreadful.


27 posted on 11/23/2010 7:02:15 AM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: RJR_fan

ABSOLUTELY INDEED.


28 posted on 11/23/2010 7:04:19 AM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: John Leland 1789; Amityschild; Brad's Gramma; Captain Beyond; Cvengr; DvdMom; firebrand; ...

The forzen chosen seem to think that

The Denver Broncos

or the Dallas Cowboys deserve more excitement and passion

than God.


29 posted on 11/23/2010 7:06:00 AM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: RJR_fan

Well put.

Folks who were trained in cemetaries (seminaries) tend to have God in so many pretend tidy little boxes, He usually leaves the building and them to their own fantasies.


30 posted on 11/23/2010 7:07:31 AM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: mothball

Exactly. ‘We are in this world but not of it’. Those who lack understanding NEED to place people in some kind of denominational ‘niche’.

Alinsky method - polarize it to criticize it.


31 posted on 11/23/2010 7:07:51 AM PST by presently no screen name ("Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down.." Mark 7:13)
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To: circlecity

The net makes that research fairly easy. Help yourself—on both counts. Both are true.

I have a decreasing need to beat my head against naysaying brick walls.


32 posted on 11/23/2010 7:08:41 AM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Quix

I think you’re referring to David Hogan. His ministry has seen many signs & wonders - miracles & resurrections.


33 posted on 11/23/2010 7:30:54 AM PST by cinciella
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To: cinciella

I have heard his, Hogan’s, name but that’s about all.

No.

The fellow in Northern Mexico I’m thinking of is a Mexican national with a Mexican name.

thx


34 posted on 11/23/2010 7:48:21 AM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Quix
Thanks for the ping Quix.

I like this one.

Though I grew up Baptist (general baptist) and now attend a non denominational church (an in your face, this is what the word says, take it or leave it)

I have friends who are pentecostal and celebrate Easter, Thanksgiving an Christmas with them. It is an absolute joy to celebrate these holidays with them, as one they ARE like family, but also the joy over the holidays and what they represent is real.

Perry Stone is one of my favorite people on TV to watch, and when I see Manna Fest is going to be on I usually put it on. Which means I hear most of his messages oover the course of a few weeks, twice at the minimum, but on average 3 times sometimes 4. Because of Perry and his teachings about ancient Israel, history, and traditions, I have an interest to know MORE about our Jewish roots. To understand the Jewish holidays that God set forth. To understand more of the ancient traditions to better understand what and why the Bible says what it says.

James Robison is someone I have recently gotten to enjoy more. I think I RESPECT him more than any of the other "charismatic" preachers. There is someone who seems very humble.

Of course, there are some charismatic preachers on tv who I can't change the channel fast enough. But then there are some non charismatics I feel the same way about.

My prayer is that God would lead me and fill me and show me HIS way. I have no interest in MANS knowledge.

35 posted on 11/23/2010 8:01:53 AM PST by mountn man (The pleasure you get from life, is equal to the attitude you put into it.)
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To: Cronos; Quix
If they stand on The Gospel they are my Brothers and Sisters in Christ.
36 posted on 11/23/2010 8:04:36 AM PST by wmfights (If you want change support SenateConservatives.com)
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To: Quix

Thank you for sharing your insights, dear brother in Christ!


37 posted on 11/23/2010 8:13:59 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: mountn man; wmfights

AMEN! AMEN! I AGREE ENTIRELY.


38 posted on 11/23/2010 8:15:30 AM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: circlecity

Ping me if you ever get an answer to your question.


39 posted on 11/23/2010 8:16:09 AM PST by Augustinian monk (NAFTA/GATT- How 's that free trade thingy workin out, America?)
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To: Alamo-Girl

Thanks for your kind reply.


40 posted on 11/23/2010 8:20:34 AM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: circlecity; Cronos; RJR_fan; Quix
When was the last time a Christian raised someone from the dead like Paul and Peter did?

A couple of decent examples are St John Bosco (1815-1888) and St Vincent Ferrer (1350 – 1419), though, as the book above alludes, there have been many, many examples throughout time.

41 posted on 11/23/2010 8:25:51 AM PST by markomalley (Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus)
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To: Quix

I once heard it said when the question was asked, “What is the greatest Spiritual gift”?

The reply, “The greatest Spiritual gift is the one that God uses at one particular moment to minister to an individual”.


42 posted on 11/23/2010 8:33:01 AM PST by Diver Dave
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To: Quix

I’m not convinced that God requires a particular personality type, does he?

Does God require all his children to be extroverts?


43 posted on 11/23/2010 8:35:37 AM PST by the_conscience (We ought to obey God, rather than men. (Acts 5:29b))
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To: markomalley; Augustinian monk; circlecity; Alamo-Girl; Amityschild; AngieGal; AnimalLover; ...
Thanks Mark,

I just ran across that . . . though I'm playing hooky from getting my administrivia ready for my classes this afternoon.

and this from:

http://adrianwarnock.com/2003/04/daniel-ekechukwu-modern-day/

Daniel Ekechukwu- A modern day Resurrection?

April 22, 2003

in misc

WP Greet Box icon
Hello there! If you are new here, you might want to subscribe via email or the RSS feed for future updates.

I know, I’m supposed to be a sceptical doctor, trained in the sciences to doubt things supernatual. But a few days ago I blogged I believe in the resurrection and I meant it! I stated a day or two before that in Why Good Friday? that I believed Jesus death had made a difference to me today. So why should I like so many other people have serious doubts when I hear of an account of a resurrection in Nigeria?

In fact on Sunday in church we watched a detailed video account of Daniel Ekechukwu’s story. This is available on sale from CfAN but they had given a number of churches a free copy which we wrote.

The simple facts are that despite the cynicism of this Hummanist sceptic he has to admit that when he investigated the claims he found that there were indeed people in Nigeria claiming the same story of a resurrection.

The story is well documented in The Resurrection of Daniel Ekechukwu

Why do I believe this story may well be true? Firstly there is the following quote.

The escorting angel told pastor Daniel, “If your record is to be called here, you will in no doubt be thrown into hell.” Pastor Daniel immediately defended himself saying, “I am a man of God! I serve Him with all my heart!” But a Bible immediately appeared in the angel’s hand, and it was opened to Matthew 5 where Jesus warned that if one calls his brother a fool he is guilty enough to go into the hell of fire (see Matt. 5:21-22). Pastor Daniel knew he was guilty for theangry words spoken to his wife. The angel also reminded him that Jesus promised that God will not forgive our sins if we do not forgive others (see Matt. 6:14-15) because we will reap what we have sown. Only those who are merciful will obtain mercy (Matt 5:7). The angel told Daniel that the prayers he prayed as he was dying in the hospital were of no effect, because he refused to forgive his wife even when she attempted to reconcile on the morning of his fatal accident.

Pastor Daniel wept at this revelation, but the angel told him not to cry, because God was going to send him back to the earth to grant the rich man’s request (see Luke 16:27-30). A man would come back from the dead and warn people of hell. The angel said that Daniel’s resurrection would serve as a sign

This sounds genuine and not at all like the permissive Christianity that often accompanies Christian preaching today. There is a display of the subjects weakness in not forgiving his wife. Bonke is clearly admitted to have nothing really to do with the miracle as it happened in a basement possibly when he had left the building.

A comparison chart of the different accounts of the stories intended to show that they are false, in fact shows just the sort of minor variation one might expect if the story was genuine rather than the false organised attempt at deception this must be if it is not.

At the end of the day I cannot force you to believe this, but having seen video footage of the reviving corpse and video interviews with the man, his wife, his doctor and his father, there is no doubt in my mind that this is either an elaborate deception (which oddly does not seem to benefit Bonke particularly except for any profits he gets from the video) or a genuine modern day miracle.

I expressed my disgust for the kind of religion that makes God as good as dead a few days ago I want nothing to do with an inactive God. Just maybe this video is to give us just one more demonstration that he is not that at all!!

But as in the biblical story I have little doubt that many people will not believe even if confronted with clear proof that someone was raised from the dead right in front of their eyes!

BLESSED BE THE NAME AND WAYS OF THE LORD.


44 posted on 11/23/2010 8:38:50 AM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Diver Dave

AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!


45 posted on 11/23/2010 8:40:12 AM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Augustinian monk
"Ping me if you ever get an answer to your question."

Don't bother. Looks like this has turned into a science fiction threat.

46 posted on 11/23/2010 8:41:50 AM PST by circlecity
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To: the_conscience

AGREED.

No. He doesn’t require all to be extroverts.

I agree with my teen AoG Pastor . . .

we don’t live by feelings, we walk by faith.

But Praise God for the feelings when they come.

There’s something wrong with a faith where the individual goes berzerk at loud volume with wild physical expressions at a ball game or watching a game on TV . . .

and yet can hardly be motivated to pray at all, or above a whisper—and certainly don’t expect anything MORE dramatic than that, when it comes to God.

There’s something wrong with that kind of spirituality.

Either GOD ALMIGHTY IS WORTHY some emotions and excitement, or he isn’t.

I haven’t found an introverted mother yet, who, rushing into the street to pick up her child hit by a car doesn’t get excited to find the child alive.

DEAD RELIGION IS DEAD RELIGION no matter how you slice it.

Weasel words don’t work for Proddys any more than they work for RC’s.


47 posted on 11/23/2010 8:43:46 AM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: the_conscience

I should note, my current congregational home is noted for dancing, flag waving . . . even a young adult cartwheeled across the front at God’s insistance . . . . which turned out to confront an atheist who’d just asked God to show he was real by having someone cartwheel across the front.

Yet, on average, I don’t feel a whole lot in most services. I man the used book table in back and somehow rarely seem energized by whatever’s going on.

Occasionally, I’ll feel touched or congruent with moving around a bit . . . maybe a slight dance sort of in place or in a small area in front of the book tables . . .

But I hate sham and going through the motions. So, if it’s not authentic, I don’t.

I agree that there’s a place for ACTING IN FAITH AS THOUGH . . . but unless there’s at least a kernal of leading or authenticity rising up in my spirit—I tend to sit such stuff out.

Praise God for those who feel touched every service. Praise God for those who get excited every service. I’m sometimes a bit covetous of their experiences in The Lord. But I hate phoney and I know God hates phoney so unless and until or except when it’s authentic for me, I’m quiet.

One of my students’ mothers is a keyboardist in our services. Precious woman. She evidently thinks I’m quiet and reserved. Her daughter, my student knows better because of all my outrageous demonstrations and antics in class.

It’s a funny contrast.

I’m not at all against emotional demonstrations or acting out one’s excitement or passion for The Lord. I just don’t want any of it to be phoney or for show before man.

And, usually, I’m rather quiet . . . still . . . with my sound canceling headphones on because of the outrageous amplified volume of the music—104db last Sunday morning. GRRR.


48 posted on 11/23/2010 8:50:08 AM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: circlecity

Not at all.

IT’s just that rigid, narrow, proud, pretend tidy little boxed dead religion disbelief and haughty naysaying skepticism doesn’t respect facts much at all.


49 posted on 11/23/2010 8:51:59 AM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Quix
"I have a decreasing need to beat my head against brick walls."

Sounds like you should have stopped a bit earlier.

50 posted on 11/23/2010 8:55:04 AM PST by circlecity
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