Posted on 11/23/2010 12:14:36 AM PST by Cronos
Right now there are churches in almost every country which call themselves Baptists on the sign out front who, nevertheless, arc not Baptists, but in reality are Pentecostal churches.
....Pentecostalism is the belief that the miraculous gifts or signs which the Lord gave to the Apostles and others in the early churches have not ceased, but are still available and are still being exercised by today’s Christians. Pentecostalism claims that God still gives these miraculous gifts to men today. Lists of these gifts can be found in Mark 16:17-18 and 1 Corinthians 12:8-11.
..God’s extraordinary gifts are called this in contrast to those He ordinarily gives in all ages. They are ordinarily not given, but rather were given on extraordinary occasions. These extraordinary gifts were supernatural gifts that enabled their possessors to perform supernatural deeds. Usually when Pentecostals today speak of the gifts or the charismata, they are speaking of these extraordinary gifts, that is, healing, miracles, tongues, direct revelations from God, casting out demons. Pentecostalism teaches that these miraculous gifts, these charismata, are still available to Christians today
(Excerpt) Read more at pbministries.org ...
ping.
pfl
Bump and ping!
In our community the leading Baptist Church is full of Pentecostals, who are part of the Diaspora from the leading Foursquare Church whose pastor has embraced the Emerging Church Movement.
For example, the raising of one or both hands during worship. His church might be as dead as four o'clock in the morning . . . I don't know.
He has just never been among many Blue Ridge and Smokey Mountain Baptists who have always raised their hands, thrown things in the air, shouted till they had no more voice, ran all over the building . . . and outside the building (I've seen them jump out the windows, hop on one heel up and down seven steps that lead to the top of the platform, jumped the pews, women shouting their hair down, young sisters crying and screaming GLORY TO THE LAMB, and much more that would scare the average church-goer to death.
And they weren't Pentecostal in doctrine.
It's hard to defend a negative, to dogmatically assert that God no longer loves us enough to heal the sick, for example. And Christians no longer have the power to cast out devils? What, we're supposed to simply wring our hands and whimper when a demon oppresses a friend, neighbor, or (dare I say it?) fellow church member? Missionaries have no grace to command disturbing spirits to shut up and go away? I can see why the demons would love this doctrine! If the Christians voluntarily lay down their weapons, and simply let the devils have their way... if "spiritual leaders" call upon believers to disarm themselves ...
God Himself commands us, in many places, to raise our hands in worship. Apparently, this writer is smarter than God?
There are several powerful trends afoot among the people of God today -- spiritual gifts, Reformed theology, and home schooling, to name three. Too many Baptists are missing the boat on all three, smugly asserting that we should adore their nattering negativity, their dogma of denial, rather than the God who loves us and invites us to get with His program. Perhaps, Augustine's assertion concerning the Donatists applies:
They sound like a fun group. They must be in good shape.
Baptists come in several varieties sharing a core set of basice doctrine. Some would welcome the infusion of such fervent belief, so long as no wrong doctrine from a Baptist perspective was introduced into the congregation. Others, not so much.
Baptists aren’t monolithic, many are independent, there’s a fair amount of autonomy. Then, there are the larger Baptist associations such as the Southern Baptist Convention, and even Baptists that lean somewhat liberal by Baptist standards.
I guess you have to know them to recognize them. Those that already lean to a more charismatic form of worship would be far more welcoming.
I was raised in the SBC, but I worship in a Pentecostal church. I used to say I am a Christian first and a baptist second, now I’m just a Christ-follower. As long as a church doesn’t violate my core set of beliefs, I can worship with them.
Personally, I like telling people I’m a citizen of the Kingdom and just passing through.. That will usually get a confused look out of someone.
Thank you for that clarification
I believe we could still be used by God and be given the gifts of the Holy Spirit, but we have to follow the recommendations (rules) set forth in the NT for church services. Paul was real explicit about that, and, of course, they are ignored.
I am real conservative though. I pray with my head covered and I don’t believe women should speak in church. I love fireworks, too.
Hey, pray for PFC. Bowe R. Bergdahl, the soldier taken prisoner in Afghanistan last year.
I agree- and add only my daily prayer is that god will renew my mind that each day my core set of beliefs will manifest
that others might have no reason to doubt I am a Christ man.
I’ve been to 3 kinds of Baptist churches. A traditional one, a “seeker-friendly” one and a charismatic one. My experience is that in general, the traditional one was OK, a bit dull, and full of “religious” people who might say & do the right things, but there was still so much gossip & back-biting going on. I didn’t see a real passion for the lost. They were great at Bible studies, and did care for each others’ needs. The “seeker-friendly” one was full of people who seemed to love the worldly culture too much to adopt a biblical worldview, and very afraid to offend anyone and thus, didn’t really seem to change much once part of the Body of Christ. The charismatic Baptist church was full of people who loved Jesus with all their hearts, had passion for the lost, reached out to the hungry, widows & orphans, took care of each other if there was a need, and yearned for the character of Christ to be manifest in themselves. It was an every second of the day walk with Christ. These people yearn for more & more of God. And their lives show the fruit of it.
Again, I say: IN GENERAL that is what I experienced. Other than the verse that says...”tongues may cease...” I haven’t seen anything in the Bible that says that the Gifts of the Holy Spirit are not for today. If ever the Body of Christ needs them, it’s today, in these troubled times.
I personally am concerned with the “emerging” church movement that is watering down the scriptures. Why attack the charismatic movement that embraces the fullness of the scriptures?
Change my heart O God
Make it ever true
Change my heart O God
May I be like You
You are the Potter
I am the clay
Mold me and make me
This is what I pray
Change my heart O God
Make it ever true
Change my heart O God
May I be like You
Heresy? Error?
This song was birthed from the charismatic movement.
If by “Penteocostalist,” one means that certain gifts of the Holy Spirit may be manifest (frequently called “charismaticism”), I suppose the main problem any church might have is the tendency towards quackery that comes with ascribing prophecy to mere babbling; biblical directives to seek interpreters, test spirits, etc., are frequently ignored. Instead, the least spiritually mature are often put in situations where they are made to feel like specially gifted prophets, whereas even Paul went to Antioch for three years before any public ministry.
Another type of Pentecostalism is quite harmful; this is the notion, sometimes distinguished as neo-pentecostalism, that spiritual charisms are an absolutely necessary sign of the working of the Holy Spirit. Thus, all previous Christianity, lacking the charisms, are held to be deficient. This is especially heinous, given that the Penteocostalist marks of the spirit are the lesser ones (”praying in tongues*”), while the Christians rejected by Pentecostalism frequently exhibited the higher charisms.
*Praying in tongues is real, but in my experience, 99.9% of what is called praying in tongues is mere babbling. How perverse that babbling should be given greater exaltation that the “ordinary gifts” of the spirit, such as charity, wisdom, patience, discernment, and so on!
All the gifts? When was the last time a Christian raised someone from the dead like Paul and Peter did?
1. I suppose it’s interesting, if the purpose is to cause unnecessary trouble and division.
2. James Robison has had and continues to have a powerful miraculous ministry since Holy Spirit apprehended him in a profound way and altered his theology. Evidently the naysayers would have thousands, if not millions of folks turn their healings and deliverances back in and suffer in silence.
3. Roman Catholic Charismatic groups also have experienced the current powerful demonstrations of Holy Spirit being alive and well in the earth today.
4. Thankfully that’s true. Man has not changed. Satan and his goals, strategies and evil devastations in the lives of man has not changed. Thankfully, God Holy Spirit has not changed either.
5. The idiocy that Holy Spirit pulled up shop and went home when John ran out of ink at the end of Revelation is utter irrational nonsense.
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